Nice going Intel. 8 years of crappy push pins.

[deltapapazulu]

Just letting Intel know we are still here, waiting for them to change their stock heatsink securing solution. Until then we'll just keep having to drop the extra $30+ for after market cooling, which means that your $200 Haswell is actually $230.

So why not just go AMD right? The reason is because generally across the whole performance test spectrum, AMD is about three years behind Intel. Any clear-headed performance oriented approach pretty much leaves you no option but Intel.

What absolutely boggles my mind is that the Intel push pin issue is not far more of a scandal than it is. I had assumed around '07 and '08 that this would be something Intel was greatly embarrassed by and would forthwith lead to a completely redesigned stock solution. That this did not happen makes it one of the greatest "emperor has no clothes" episodes in hardware history. It is not that the issue has not been more than amply documented, but that there seems to have been such a nonchalant fatalism about it. There have been plenty of complaints but not nearly enough expression of dissatisfaction. In short, nobody really cares.

The reason why this is so distressing for me is because I am a home system builder as a hobby. I build all my own and all my friends and relatives. In fact, I am slated to put together 3 systems in the next few months, and in each instance I am going to have to go with after market cooling.

 

[ewok93]

So you're upset that they're hard to install? Or that they're not effective? Because they're neither, they're not bad coolers, you just can't overclock with them and they don't make up for bad wire arrangement and poor airflow.

 

[deltapapazulu]

So you're upset that they're hard to install? Or that they're not effective? Because they're neither, they're not bad coolers, you just can't overclock with them and they don't make up for bad wire arrangement and poor airflow.

The stock heatsinks is fine. And they are actually a good deal easier to install than an aftermarket heatsink. I have installed a few of them and have spoken with others who have installed them. The problem is the push pins mechanism. They simply don't hold the heatsink securely enough to the CPU. The stock heatsink and fan are just fine. It is the securing mechanism that sucks. After you install it, with the side panel off and the case laying on it's side, as you watch the temps in bios, you can gently push down on the heatsink (without touching fan of course) and watch the temps begin to go down from the 50s to the 40s. Many many home builders and pre-built systems owners have reported that over time (as in a few months to a year) the temps gradually begin to creep up into the 60s and even higher. I remember when the intel e8400 first came out everybody was griping about heat issues. It was even making hardware headlines for goodness sake. They were blaming it on the CPU but that was back when these push pins were relatively new and not many understood that it was really the crappy design of the securing mechanism that was causing their heat issues. That very thing happened to me with the e8400 in 2008. I read suggestions that a heatsink with a screw-on back plate would clear up the e8400 heat issues. Voila! My temps went from upper 50s (with push-pins correctly installed) all the way down to 42 celcius at rest at room temperature (with a cheap aftermarket $16 Masscool). Temps have been in lower 40s for four years.

 

[AshyCFC]

Just so you know AMD are not 3 years behind Intel. The 8350 is better for livestreaming than 4670k in terms of fps in most games, explain that. Yeah push pins not a fan of them but what can you do? Just get a cheap aftermarket cooler if the stock is so problematic

 

[WaSquids]

I dislike intels pushpins alot too.

 

[vmN]

Just so you know AMD are not 3 years behind Intel. The 8350 is better for livestreaming than 4670k in terms of fps in most games, explain that. Yeah push pins not a fan of them but what can you do? Just get a cheap aftermarket cooler if the stock is so problematic

suddenly a FPS meanwhile streaming shows how far a product is?
Streaming and gaming is in no way a harder work for a CPU as the normally will use the same constant ressources.


Also the stock coolers that follows with is a simply solution, they were never marked to be good for overclocking or anything like that.

When have after market cooler been a problem?

 

[AshyCFC]

Real world performance is more important than benchmarks and numbers in my opinion. They're not as far behind as stated was all.

 

[vmN]

Real world performance is more important than benchmarks and numbers in my opinion. They're not as far behind as stated was all.

well "real world performance" is really different from person to person.
If you think gaming is everything, then you are simply wrong.
I would say, in the architecture point of view, AMD is about 2 years behind, but in performance point of view they are 1 year behind. But things might change at AMD new product line.

 

[DeathAndPain]

That is a pretty sound assessment. While miniaturization is not everything, it is a pretty good start for comparing how advanced an architecture is. AMD is still manufacturing their CPUs in 32nm process. Intel started doing so with their Clarkdale cores, which were introduced January 2010. Meanwhile, Intel is down to 22nm, a value that AMD is still dreaming about. That is also a major reason why AMD CPUs consume so much power and dissipate so much heat in the process.

The only reason why the actual performance difference is smaller is because AMD resorts to putting more of their weaker cores upon each processor. Top Vishera CPUs (arguably) have 8 cores, while Intel only offers 4 cores + multithreading (and still wins easily with those performance-wise whilst consuming way less power).

As for the cooler, I have never been a fan of stock coolers, no matter which CPU manufacturer. However, it is not necessary to spend $30 on an aftermarket cooler either. There are way cheaper aftermarket coolers out there that will do easily as well as and better than the stock coolers. Combine these with a "tray" processor (not paying for boxed cooler and fancy packaging) and you end up hardly paying more but having a way more reliable cooling solution.

I am more concerned with the necessity to de-lid modern Intel CPUs if you want to squeeze out a maximum of performance without running into heat-related throttling. De-lidding is not necessary in the least for Intel to outclass AMD stuff tho.

 

[ewok93]

Intel and AMD have different architecture, you cannot say one is behind or ahead of the other. The most expensive AMD (non server) chip is $300, the most expensive Intel is over $1000. They're not even competing at that point.

 

[vmN]

Intel and AMD have different architecture, you cannot say one is behind or ahead of the other. The most expensive AMD (non server) chip is $300, the most expensive Intel is over $1000. They're not even competing at that point.

AMD is using 32nn soon to be 28nm

Intel is running 22nm close to be 14nm.

Intel is ahead. Intel is using newer architecture, so you can say they are ahead.

 

[Gaidax]

Oh yeah, hate those things RRR!

It's a nightmare if you have a huge cooler.

 

[logainofhades]

Push pins suck. AMD's retention system is far superior.

 

[ewok93]

Wow, it's smaller so it must be better.

 

[shortstuff_mt]

I had to clean up some language that is not in line with the forum rules. Let's not turn this into an AMD vs. Intel flame war.

 

[ewok93]

Seems to be a bit late for that.

 

[eddy1967]

Just letting Intel know we are still here, waiting for them to change their stock heatsink securing solution. Until then we'll just keep having to drop the extra $30+ for after market cooling, which means that your $200 Haswell is actually $230.

So why not just go AMD right? The reason is because generally across the whole performance test spectrum, AMD is about three years behind Intel. Any clear-headed performance oriented approach pretty much leaves you no option but Intel.

What absolutely boggles my mind is that the Intel push pin issue is not far more of a scandal than it is. I had assumed around '07 and '08 that this would be something Intel was greatly embarrassed by and would forthwith lead to a completely redesigned stock solution. That this did not happen makes it one of the greatest "emperor has no clothes" episodes in hardware history. It is not that the issue has not been more than amply documented, but that there seems to have been such a nonchalant fatalism about it. There have been plenty of complaints but not nearly enough expression of dissatisfaction. In short, nobody really cares.

The reason why this is so distressing for me is because I am a home system builder as a hobby. I build all my own and all my friends and relatives. In fact, I am slated to put together 3 systems in the next few months, and in each instance I am going to have to go with after market cooling.

Mkay, so I am here because in october of 2015, I am doing a new build, as a home hobbyist, and I want to replace my crappy push pin cpu cooler You say you have used aftermarket coolers, but all the ones I look at have the same crappy connectors. Are they just better coolers? Or have you found one that connects more efficiently? I actually used very short hex headed metal screws on one fan/ heatsink a few years back, and Never had a problem. I just dont want to do that again, for obvious reasons. What did you end up using? THank you, RICH.

 

[synphul]

I can say I'm not a fan of the pushpin retention either. It works, it can be a hassle. There are more elegant solutions out there. If I had to guess just looking at them, they're the same old hunk of metal 'flower' design they've been since my core2duo. I'm not a huge fan of plastic pretty much everything if I can avoid it, only because of the nature of plastic. It deforms, can become brittle etc. Then again it's a stock cooler, a 'basic' model. Not much 'basic' gives a whole lot to write home about. I mean go to a fast food restaurant and order a 'basic' burger, you get two buns, a sad little patty, a couple squirts of condiment and maybe a slice of pickle if you're lucky.

Many aftermarket coolers use a much better retention system consisting of a backplate, rigid mounting brackets typically one on either side and screw together. You still have to be somewhat careful, even the fine threaded screws can strip. The backplates are usually used with larger tower cooler designs though and the stock cooler doesn't put that much stress on the motherboard so that's one reason for the design differences.

So long as you don't fuss with the stock cooler too much installing it, removing it, installing it again etc it shouldn't be too bad. The more the pins are messed with the more sloppy they become and more risk for breaking them. It also helps to install the cpu to the motherboard then install the cooler before installing the motherboard into the case. That way you can visually make sure the pins are fully locked through by peeking at the back of the motherboard.

Some of the issues come from installing the pushpin type coolers with the motherboard already in the case and when the builder pushes down on the pins the motherboard flexes. As the board flexes some and bows closer to the back panel there's potential for the ends of the pushpins to encounter resistance and not lock in completely. Sort of like nailing two boards together unsupported as they flex and bounce you'll be at it awhile hammering away fighting the bending and bowing applying pressure to the nail. Use a solid surface underneath and it becomes much easier.

 

[logainofhades]

Please start your own thread, do not necro old threads. This almost 2yrs old. /closed.