problems with sapphire 7950 HD

[wjtk4444]

Hi there. At first, sorry if my english isn't perfect.
I have sapphire radeon 7950 HD vapor-x, for about 8 months. And i'm pretty sure, than something is wrong with this card. FPS in a lot of games are very low, when i run gpu-z render test my power section looks unstable. (you can see on screenshots what i exactly mean)
Low FPS are for me:
~35-45 in Tomb Rider 2013
~40-70 in Serious Sam 3
~65 in Battlefield 3 (last played a few months ago, score is kinda old)
~15(yes, 15 this isn't a mistake)-30 in FARCRY 3 (i had 25-50 playing on old 5850HD . . .)
~8-12 in Metro LL
It's more than weird , cause for example Borderlands 2 are running at 50-200 fps (depends on location, mostly it's about 100), Metro 2033 at 80-160 FPS (with enabled DOF it's 15-25 , i have no idea what is DOF, cause i didn't notice any differences in graphics)
All the posted scores are related to 1080p and Ultra settings in each game.

My PC is:
-7950 HD 950/1250 MHz GPU
-ASUS M5A97 EVO R2.0 MB
-AMD FX-8350 8*4.0GHz CPU
-CORSAIR 1600MHz 2*4GB RAM
-Chieftec (if i good remember) 650 W Power Supply (it's less than 1yr old, so it should be fine, i guess)

Another thing is that, than since i bought second display (1080p) if i'm playing and working, everytime i switch display i had permormance drop for a few seconds. Is it normal ?

I tried reinstalling windows, installing another drivers, etc. No changes at all. Any ideas from you?

Screenshot from GPU-Z http://i.imgur.com/VeAXdNj.gif
I't even worse if GPU is loaded for longer time (i mean graphs)

 

[huilun02]

I't even worse if GPU is loaded for longer time (i mean graphs)

That sounds like throttling. Usually happens when the GPU is overheating. But your GPU-Z screenshot looks fine to me. I'm using the exact same card for over a year and no such problems.

DOF means Depth of Field. Basically blurs the image around the edges especially when moving, to simulate how your eyes focus like in real life. Usually it is bundled with other post processing effects in games, which is why it can kill the framerate when enabled.

But your GPU load appears to be fluctuating. Are you running some heavy applications in the background? Is your CPU overclocked? How about checking CPU usage when playing the affected games.

 

[wjtk4444]

I't even worse if GPU is loaded for longer time (i mean graphs)

That sounds like throttling. Usually happens when the GPU is overheating. But your GPU-Z screenshot looks fine to me. I'm using the exact same card for over a year and no such problems.

DOF means Depth of Field. Basically blurs the image around the edges especially when moving, to simulate how your eyes focus like in real life. Usually it is bundled with other post processing effects in games, which is why it can kill the framerate when enabled.

But your GPU load appears to be fluctuating. Are you running some heavy applications in the background? Is your CPU overclocked? How about checking CPU usage when playing the affected games.

I'll check CPU usage when i'll be at home and post a screenshot or sth. Dunno what applications you mean as heavy, i usually have running firefox on second display, sometimes another game like hearthstone ie.

 

[wjtk4444]

I't even worse if GPU is loaded for longer time (i mean graphs)

That sounds like throttling. Usually happens when the GPU is overheating. But your GPU-Z screenshot looks fine to me. I'm using the exact same card for over a year and no such problems.

DOF means Depth of Field. Basically blurs the image around the edges especially when moving, to simulate how your eyes focus like in real life. Usually it is bundled with other post processing effects in games, which is why it can kill the framerate when enabled.

But your GPU load appears to be fluctuating. Are you running some heavy applications in the background? Is your CPU overclocked? How about checking CPU usage when playing the affected games.

OK, done. I chcecked CPU usage while playing. Shame that i had no one of games i mentioned installed. (they were non-playable and i did't install them after windows reinstallation) Anyway, screenshots with cpu usage:
http://i.imgur.com/jBNjcds.jpg Borderlands 2, huge location, approximately 60-95 fps
http://i.imgur.com/86IGsp7.jpg Fallout: NV (TTW, to be clear) with tones of mods, 45-80 fps

On second one gpu-z graph is partially covered, but that was similar to first one.

CPU load as you can see, few drops to ~25%, few jumps to ~80%, but mostly around 45-55%

 

[huilun02]

Screenshots look fine. I can't identify the problem. For how long has this problem been occurring? Judging by normal performance in Borderlands 2 and Metro 2033 I doubt it's the GPU causing the problem. Do the games start up with good performance and then it keeps dropping and doesn't go back up?

Also maybe you can specify what actually happens when you 'switch displays' while gaming and working. It's not unnatural to have the game's framerate drop when you switch to focus on your work application, because Windows is designed to give priority resources to the application that you are focused on.

 

[wjtk4444]

Screenshots look fine. I can't identify the problem. For how long has this problem been occurring? Judging by normal performance in Borderlands 2 and Metro 2033 I doubt it's the GPU causing the problem. Do the games start up with good performance and then it keeps dropping and doesn't go back up?

Also maybe you can specify what actually happens when you 'switch displays' while gaming and working. It's not unnatural to have the game's framerate drop when you switch to focus on your work application, because Windows is designed to give priority resources to the application that you are focused on.

For me, it looks like my power supply is too weak for this card. I checked it out, and it's this model: http://aerocool.com.pl/?page_id=528
504 W = 12V(1) + 12V(2). Maybe this mean 252 W for cpu and 252 for gpu (i dunno, just speculating).
Maybe it's too low wattage for this oc (950/1250(oc by sapphire)) card ?
Problem is since i bought card. Previously i've got same set (cpu, mb, power supply(changed ram few times, but that had no effect)). And on old 5850 HD fps in some games were better (no drops, i played FC3 (1080 p ultra) and BF3(1080p very high) smoothly)

If i oc card a bit more (1000/1400 ?) and i get bluescreens and reboots, will it be a confirmation than my 12V line is too weak ?

Do the games start up with good performance and then it keeps dropping and doesn't go back up?

No, if performance is good, it's good (in some games (M2033,Fallout3/NV) i have fps drops, but i guess it's engine fault), otherwise when performance is bad, it sucks all the time. . .

 

[huilun02]

It's possible its the PSU, but usually when the PSU as at any sort of fault you get symptoms that are a lot worse like graphical artifacts and crashing. The GPU only pulls up to 225W on its own, so a 500W will power the system even if the GPU is overclocked.

If your card causes crashes with 1000Mhz overclock it probably just means the GPU is not so good and can't run stable at that speed.

 

[wjtk4444]

It's possible its the PSU, but usually when the PSU as at any sort of fault you get symptoms that are a lot worse like graphical artifacts and crashing. The GPU only pulls up to 225W on its own, so a 500W will power the system even if the GPU is overclocked.

If your card causes crashes with 1000Mhz overclock it probably just means the GPU is not so good and can't run stable at that speed.

I OC card and there are results:
GPU-Z - http://i.imgur.com/PEc3Py0.jpg
I have tested in few more games (fallout3, deus ex hr, fear 3) but no artifacts, no reboots, no problems.
(but in games gpu is running at 850/1250 (referene clocks, lower than sapphire ones and of course my settings)
Maybe in games where i noticed low performance gpu wasn't running in high performance mode too. I have to check this, but now i'm outta time. I'll download M:LL and FC3 (hopefully today) and i check how it's working. However PSU looks fine, i guess.


EDIT: Okay, i installed FC3 (and in few hours i'll have M:LL, but i'm pretty sure, than result will be same as here) and if's running at non playable 25-30 fps (20-40, but mostly about 25, tones of lags). Independently on profile (button on card) and manual oc, gpu runs at 850/1250. Of course i could set games to medium/high graphics level, but i spent a lot (for me) of money to buy this PC, and i want to enjoy fancy graphics.

 

[wjtk4444]

Any new ideas what's happening with my PC?

 

[huilun02]

Out of ideas sorry

 

[wjtk4444]

Damn. Why allways when i bought new electronic stuff it's not working properly
Anyway, thanks for help
If you have any ideas, thread is open.

 

[wjtk4444]

Hmmmm, i've done one more test, and i think, than now i know where is the problem.
I run farcry 3 with 1100/1450 oc by trixx tool, and later on "stock oc" 950/1250. And...
I'm sure, than card is thinking that in game there is no need to run in high performance mode (see at clock on screenshots)

http://i.imgur.com/TRgnTpE.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/mqPpPpO.jpg

It's not going to run at 1100 or even 950 MHz, so maybe any other components of card are running same as in idle / low load even if gpu load is near 100%. Is it possible ?

 

[huilun02]

Test the max frequency with GPU-Z's built in render test. Beside the Bus Interface reading there is a little blue "?"

Click on it and start render test. Then while it is running, go to the Sensors tab and see what frequencies your getting.

 

[wjtk4444]

I've done what you said, and:

Render test on 950/1250:

http://i.imgur.com/FOsvsQh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/EhFQiC6.jpg

Stable by ~60-90 seconds, after it jumps from 850-950 mhz (both, fulscreen and windowed)

Render test on 1100/1450:

http://i.imgur.com/NMPPCES.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/5ZZWMsE.jpg

Stable all the time.


No idea what to do . . .

Render test 950/1250 -> 950; Game 950/1250 -> 850; Render test 1100/1450 -> 850; Game 1100/1450 -> 500

How to interpret those symptoms ? What does it mean ?


Maybe tomorrow i put my card in my firend's PC and check how it's working, or i'll take his card and put it instead of mine for few hours.
Hope he will let me do that

 

[coozie7]

Just a few words.
First, install the latest WHQL certified drivers and DON'T make any changes, just run the system at stock settings, if you overclock or make changes to the power profile you're just adding possible problems which will make resolving the current issue all the more difficult.
Next time you screenshot GPUZ can you show us the VRM temperatures (if available)? I think Huilun02 is right, it looks as if the card is throttling but I think it may be the VRMs are overheating and causing those GPU spikes.
As a matter of interest my 7950 gives similar results to yours in Tomb Raider and Serious Sam 3.
I'm not sure about FC3, my rig will sustain 45FPS (I've capped it with RadeonPro to stop the stuttering) perhaps it just needs to be patched?
I suspect you have not disabled Advanced PhysX in Metro LL, it's in the Gameplay menu, not Graphics, and also do NOT switch from AAA, it slashes the frame rate and does nothing for the visuals.

 

[wjtk4444]

Just a few words.
First, install the latest WHQL certified drivers and DON'T make any changes, just run the system at stock settings, if you overclock or make changes to the power profile you're just adding possible problems which will make resolving the current issue all the more difficult.
Next time you screenshot GPUZ can you show us the VRM temperatures (if available)? I think Huilun02 is right, it looks as if the card is throttling but I think it may be the VRMs are overheating and causing those GPU spikes.
As a matter of interest my 7950 gives similar results to yours in Tomb Raider and Serious Sam 3.
I'm not sure about FC3, my rig will sustain 45FPS (I've capped it with RadeonPro to stop the stuttering) perhaps it just needs to be patched?
I suspect you have not disabled Advanced PhysX in Metro LL, it's in the Gameplay menu, not Graphics, and also do NOT switch from AAA, it slashes the frame rate and does nothing for the visuals.

I really have no idea how to check availability of VRM temperatures, can you tell me how to ?

I'm also sure, than advanced physx were disabled (i had similar preformance problem in mirror's edge, and now i'm chcecking this in every game).

About reinstalling drivers. Almost every month i do full system reinstall, and i tried with a lot of versions of drivers, so they are not source of problems.

 

[coozie7]

Not all cards have the required VRM temperature sensor, mine doesn't, but I think yours does.
Run GPUZ and in the Sensors window scroll down, if your card has the sensor, it'll be there.
The Advanced PhysX feature in Metro LL is not in the graphics options but the gameplay section, maybe you've just missed it. And I forgot, in Metro LL there's no AAA setting in the graphics options, just one to use SSAA, which should not be used-as I said, it massively reduces the frame rate and does nothing for the visuals.

 

[wjtk4444]

Okay, i'll try this when i install Metro again.


Even if i set gpu to 1100 it works at 850, and temperature looks fine, i guess.

http://i.imgur.com/PvxqQED.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/iudURn9.jpg

 

[huilun02]

Your card's not overclocking properly. Got a feeling its BIOS is wonky.

 

[wjtk4444]

But it has two bioses. (sapphire and amd one) Is it possible, than both are wonky ? Anyway, will i loose warranty if i flash new by myself, and how to do that ? Same question to the MB, i have bios from 12.2012 and on ASUS website is a newer one. Should i update ?

 

[coozie7]

Was hoping to see the VRM temperatures much higher, they're fine though.
Flashing the card BIOS may invalidate the warranty so I'd advise against it.
As long as you're careful flashing the motherboard BIOS is OK.
Perhaps Huilun02 is right and the BIOS is damaged, or it could be something with the power regulation chip, either way I think you've done all that can reasonably be done to get it working properly short of risking invalidating the warranty with a BIOS flash.
Time to return it under warranty.

 

[huilun02]

I was just referring to the BIOS of the card. It might be the culprit because it isn't working at the correct frequencies when overclocked. If that's the case then you have to flash it to the same or a newer one to get it working proper.

On the other hand flashing your motherboard BIOS to a newer one should not void its warranty.

 

[wjtk4444]

Thank you both very much for help. I'll do as coozie7 said, return it under warranty. Maybe i have somewhere my old 5850HD, if i find it i'll check fps in FC 3, cause i'm curious as hell about it. When i get my card back i'll write how things are

 

[wjtk4444]

I read some articles about warranty, and everybody writes, that it takes about few months (maybe in another countries this is shorter period of time). Is it a big risk to flash bios by myself ?

 

[huilun02]

Yes it is risky, maybe less so with a dual bios card. But if the problem was indeed a bad bios then your card is considered to have come defective and can return it anyway.

The warranty process can take a long time. But if you do that I'm hoping it is a hardware issue and they might return you an R9 280X instead because the 7950/7970 are no longer in production. lol