Why are so many people open about pirating?

[Mikarri]

I've been wondering for a long time now why people online are so open about being a pirate. People post everywhere about the music, video games, tv shows, movies etc that they are downloading. I frequent a lot of gaming sites in particular, and the massive number of folks talking about pirating ROMs of older games and the software they use to play them is staggering.

Aren't people afraid of being caught? It seems to me that if you're stealing something, it's not advisable to broadcast that fact lol.

PS: sorry if this is not in the right category. I had no idea where to post this.

 

[BennyJi]

Hi there,

Easiest answer to your question comes in two parts.

1. People broadcast from perceived anonymity. So long as they aren't posting with personal and easily tracked accounts they are fine.
2. Part time piraters are not worth the hassle of being tracked down, the worst they face is a monitoring from their internet provider and a warning system if they're deemed to be breaching the terms and services.

With that aside, it is a interesting question and one that can't be answered very easily. There has been large dispute on the legality of pirating software (when used as a file share or when used as back up/ replacement to already purchased software). There is also large dispute over the prices for the software in particular, the high prices for online based software (download + install) where no solid manufacturing or real life distributing needs to take place. For this reason, alot of people are happy to broadcast their pirating as they don't see it as an illegal activity or if they do then they class it as a worthy one.

Ultimately, pirating exists and people do it. But as places like Netflix and Steam have proven, people are also willing to pay for the product provided it is of an affordable nature for what you get. In my local New Zealand, an xbox movie to rent for 48 hours costs anywehre between $6.00 and $12.00 whereas the same netflix provision (took some tweaking to get around region blocking) comes in at $13.00 a month with unlimited viewing of everything. Go figure.

Regards

 

[Mikarri]

So, basically they say what they do because they think they're safe, and even if caught, all they'd get is a warning? I was told they would confiscate your computer and deny you access to the internet for the rest of your life.

 

[BennyJi]

That's largely fear mongering.

In my country we are issued three warnings before internet is shut off. But internet is only blocked from that provider at the time.

The powers that be are more interested in shutting down the sites that enable pirating (Pirate Bay is a big one and has had to change its country of hosting many times to stay ahead of the law) and shutting down the People contributing to pirating (the uploaders)

Anything else is not worth the effort so they leave it up to the internet providers to monitor (which they can't)

Think of it like the age old saying about cutting the head of snake. Attack piracy where it exists and in time it can be shutdown. Continuously go after the pirates themselves and you will be forever chasing a infinite people.

 

[Mikarri]

Oh, I thought your IP address was logged or your ISP knew where you went and could report you.
I think if companies just made content available for an affordable price, very few would pirate things. I'm always amazed at the deals I get on Steam, and I end up buying more because of it.

 

[BennyJi]

<mod edit... try to keep specific examples out of the this controversial thread please>. There are more ways to hide your piracy than there are to track it. That's why it is not overly tracked. Just monitored by your ISP as best as they can (which is not very well considering the amount of clients they have).

And yes, the simple solution to piracy is to make content available for a decent price. In the age of fast data speeds and easy distribution, it is ridiculous that we are still charged over the top for basic software.

 

[ssddx]

why are people so open about piracy?

a combination of having zero fear and zero respect combined with a bit of unjust self righteousness i suppose.

piracy is no better than stealing from a retail store or stealing money from your mothers purse. its theft at its most base level.

honestly the only solution which would work is to track down all users who commited the crime and to punish them harshly. obviously this is not possible (given the scope of the internet) which is why when they do find someone its often an outlandish punishment which could very well ruin 5-10 years of their life trying to deal with it. while i dont agree with this practice there is not much they can do about it.

the more drm they pack into programs the harder it is for legitimate users. the more restrictions (or in the case of streaming media.. zero buffering) the more technical problems and difficulties for legitimate users.

lowering prices would make a small dent on the number of pirates sure however its not the solution. i can definitely tell you what the outcome of that would be: due to lowered prices the overall product would not be as fully developed. in the case of a game this means a shorter game or one which isnt as good. pirate logic would be that i'm going to pirate this game because its not that good and doesnt deserve money.. that will teach them to release inferior products. if the product was done right and has a normal pricetage the pirates would think that the price is unfair (it doesnt matter how much content the game has or how difficult it was to make) and will pirate it because of the price. if you had a great game at a great price pirates would still not pay for it since they are already used to getting things free.

in general piracy is a large reason why prices are higher, we have drm, we have no buffering for streaming and why steam exists. the people who condemn these very things are in fact requiring the use of such protocols to try and protect against them. its like kicking your own rear and wondering why it hurts.

---

on a side note... lets try not to mention any specific ways pirates hide from authorities in this thread as piracy is against this forums rules.

its okay to ask the question why do people do this however its not okay to discuss where to go for it, how to do it, how do they get away with it and other such things which could potentially act as a stepping stone into piracy.

i'll be watching this thread just to make sure it doesnt get out of hand but its a very good question that was asked.

 

[g-unit1111]

Hi there,

Easiest answer to your question comes in two parts.

1. People broadcast from perceived anonymity. So long as they aren't posting with personal and easily tracked accounts they are fine.
2. Part time piraters are not worth the hassle of being tracked down, the worst they face is a monitoring from their internet provider and a warning system if they're deemed to be breaching the terms and services.

With that aside, it is a interesting question and one that can't be answered very easily. There has been large dispute on the legality of pirating software (when used as a file share or when used as back up/ replacement to already purchased software). There is also large dispute over the prices for the software in particular, the high prices for online based software (download + install) where no solid manufacturing or real life distributing needs to take place. For this reason, alot of people are happy to broadcast their pirating as they don't see it as an illegal activity or if they do then they class it as a worthy one.

Ultimately, pirating exists and people do it. But as places like Netflix and Steam have proven, people are also willing to pay for the product provided it is of an affordable nature for what you get. In my local New Zealand, an xbox movie to rent for 48 hours costs anywehre between $6.00 and $12.00 whereas the same netflix provision (took some tweaking to get around region blocking) comes in at $13.00 a month with unlimited viewing of everything. Go figure.

Regards

Oh I completely agree that anonymity is a huge part of it. The other part of it is the cost of owning a large library of video and audio content is immense. That's exactly why sites like Netflix exist to give you that feeling of owning a large library without owning a large library. But it's basically econ 101 - you sell one item at a low price and people will buy it in droves, you sell the same item at a higher price and people will be less likely to buy it. But on the other hand if something is available for free, even if it is protected by domestic and international copyright law, the free option will always win. :lol:

The really sad thing is even with the perceived anonymity of such services, you're not really that anonymous. Every single device (smartphone / tablet), laptop and desktop is all linked to a unique IP address that is easily traceable by your ISP, and that way you can be fined severely or serve court time for repeated piracy. That's why it is such a big no no on this website.

 

[WyomingKnott]

I'm going to post in defense, so to speak, of some pirates. I do not condone piracy, I will never assist in it, and I will report it where I see it. But
1) Many people live in areas where they can't get legit copies
2) Many people can't afford it. The retail price of Windows 7 is higher than some people's annual incomes.
3) In some parts of the world, even the government uses pirated software. (Like the US Army, recently, but that's an exception). Someone using legitimate software would be like the guy driving 30 in a 30 zone where everyone else is swerving around him doing 50. Technically right, but.... For those people it's the norm, and they get surprised when we yell at them.

The ROMs are simply unavailable any other way, except for collectors who hoard them like van Goghs. Music download is more of a cultural issue; every kid grows up surrounded by people who get their music that way. They listen to crap-quality MP3 because they don't know any better, too.

 

[ssddx]

a few counterpoints in the intereste of good discussion:

1) just because you live in an area where you cannot get a legitimate copy doesnt mean its right for you to take it.

2) its a well known fact that windows and office prices vary by region and are directly related to the average incomes for that country. at least this is how things were always done in the past.

3) the trouble is that there is a total lack of fear for consequences and almost no respect for other people in the world. i happen to drive 30 in a 30. why? because if i lived there i wouldnt want some yahoo driving through going 50 and also becasue i realize there is really no hurry to get anywhere.

sure, i used to speed when i was younger however life sure did ring the wake up alarms. 3 tickets and 1 point over max later (needing to take the test again to lower by a point) and my lesson was learned. looking back on it now i realize it was all pretty dumb to be in a rush like that in the first place. this is why i'm a proud supporter of pretty harsh punishment. if the punishment is harsh enough it can snap a persons attitude back into reality.

most of the people who learned to do such things learned to so such from an early age and have kept the bad habit throughout their lives. it needs to be cut off at the source in any way/shape/form that it can be.

 

[WyomingKnott]

True that. But the question I'm addressing is "why are they open about it?", not is it acceptable. I'm not going to argue that it's acceptable under those circumstances.

You should have seen me when I went to race-driving school. Driving home after each day with my racing flame-retardant suit on, driving 30 with the other people piled up behind me. The irony was thick enough to cut with a knife.

=======================
Speaking of piracy and music downloads. One of the Presidents Bush, I forget which one, was asked what was on his MP3 player while he was in office. The list included the Beatles, which was not available in electronic form at the time. Music piracy by definition.

I own the physical remaster release of all the Beatles albums on a USB key. It's green, and slots into a green aluminum apple. Wish I had gotten the mono version instead of the stereo. The Beatles were involved in mixing the mono; the stereo came later and they didn't have input into it.

 

[g-unit1111]

True that. But the question I'm addressing is "why are they open about it?", not is it acceptable. I'm not going to argue that it's acceptable under those circumstances.

You should have seen me when I went to race-driving school. Driving home after each day with my racing flame-retardant suit on, driving 30 with the other people piled up behind me. The irony was thick enough to cut with a knife.

=======================
Speaking of piracy and music downloads. One of the Presidents Bush, I forget which one, was asked what was on his MP3 player while he was in office. The list included the Beatles, which was not available in electronic form at the time. Music piracy by definition.

I own the physical remaster release of all the Beatles albums on a USB key. It's green, and slots into a green aluminum apple. Wish I had gotten the mono version instead of the stereo. The Beatles were involved in mixing the mono; the stereo came later and they didn't have input into it.

Yeah I remember that, it definitely had to be Bush II since 2004 - 2005 is about when iPods and MP3 players first started coming into fruition. I'd love to get my hands on that Beatles box set but it's $200. :lol:

 

[Meseguer]

I'll tell you why. A lot of people can't afford a new pc game or a new movie or pay 1.29$, .99£ or .99€ for a SINGLE SONG. Piracy is not really wrong if you think about it, a lot of people can't afford something and that doesn't mean that they can't enjoy music, software or films. Also, some countries don't ban piracy. For example In my country (Costa Rica), the ISPs wont do anything if you pirate something. I'll be honest, i've pirated music, films and other stuff, but i didn't do it to hurt the artist. I mean will downloading 'Wolf of Wall Street' affect Leo's or Martin's wallet, no it wont, you see, a lot of artists still earn royalties, even if no sales are made. I mean downloading 1 album wont hurt Universal Music will it? No it wont.

 

[ssddx]

Piracy is not really wrong if you think about it

in what alternate universe? stealing is stealing. you wouldnt want it done to you so how can you say its okay to do to others?

a lot of people can't afford something and that doesn't mean that they can't enjoy music, software or films.

there are lots of free music, free software and films and some free films. by your logic just because i can enjoy a porche i should steal one.

but i didn't do it to hurt the artist.

no, you did it because you dont care about the artist. why else would you not pay them for their hard work?[/quote]

downloading 1 album wont hurt Universal Music will it

but 1 albumn multiplied by millions of people does which is why its such a big deal.

quite simply there is no excuse for it.

 

[Evil Joker]

Woo chill out buddy

First of all you are looking at your country only, the reason piracy exists in my country if because people can't afford the orginal product.

We pay for electricity, PC, internet, then SO? Then a game? Then a license?
Trust me when I say not everybody can afford ti, as a student we still need Office or any program to write, plus books are extremely expensive.
The reason why prices aren't lower is not because of piracy, more sales does not mean prices will be lower the price is given not by the work it needs. but the feeling it produces.
Trust me I study economics

Even when piracy represents huge looses to companies, they will still be richer and richer. And sometimes when you buy it the product is not what you wanted

I completely agree if you liked the game, SO or anything you should buy it

But not as a general rule...

 

[ssddx]

no, this goes far beyond mere countries. this is all about ethics. just because you want something doesnt mean you can just take it.

why arent you stealing electricity from your neighbors, surfing unprotected wifi and stealing computers? what makes stealing a game okay but not the rest? its all the same.

no, you dont need office. you can use openoffice or google docs. they handle the same formats. as far as books, yes i know they are expensive but why are you buying them but not what you pirate?

if there was no piracy you are correct that prices likely wouldnt be lower (corporate greed) however we also wouldnt have to deal with so much drm and special servers like steam needing to be ran all the time. however, if you just didnt buy the product (and dont use it!) then prices might come down and polices might change.

if ran correctly yes companies can out-profit losses from piracy. many products offer trials and if that doesnt work then you can always read reviews and watch videos on the subject.

---

i will use the same scenario yet again...

i cant afford a porche which means i dont have a porche. i'm not going to steal one just because i want one even though one measly car amonst millions wouldnt amount to any real profit loss. i cant help it that i dont have the money for one so everyone should just accept it if i steal one right? (according to your logic)

no, its not okay and its not right.

---

in any case piracy is prohibited on this website. you are entitled to your opinion of course but its not acceptable to promote piracy as being acceptable on here. any more of it and i'll have to start taking names down.

 

[Evil Joker]

no, this goes far beyond mere countries. this is all about ethics. just because you want something doesnt mean you can just take it.

why arent you stealing electricity from your neighbors, surfing unprotected wifi and stealing computers? what makes stealing a game okay but not the rest? its all the same.

no, you dont need office. you can use openoffice or google docs. they handle the same formats. as far as books, yes i know they are expensive but why are you buying them but not what you pirate?

if there was no piracy you are correct that prices likely wouldnt be lower (corporate greed) however we also wouldnt have to deal with so much drm and special servers like steam needing to be ran all the time. however, if you just didnt buy the product (and dont use it!) then prices might come down and polices might change.

if ran correctly yes companies can out-profit losses from piracy. many products offer trials and if that doesnt work then you can always read reviews and watch videos on the subject.

---

i will use the same scenario yet again...

i cant afford a porche which means i dont have a porche. i'm not going to steal one just because i want one even though one measly car amonst millions wouldnt amount to any real profit loss. i cant help it that i dont have the money for one so everyone should just accept it if i steal one right? (according to your logic)

no, its not okay and its not right.

---

in any case piracy is prohibited on this website. you are entitled to your opinion of course but its not acceptable to promote piracy as being acceptable on here. any more of it and i'll have to start taking names down.

You are trying to minimize something that goes far behind with that example that has little to do with.
Everything is about money now, you have to realized that companies doesn't care about cheaper games or better functionality, they just release the same and expect to get more money off it.

You are missing the point of who gets the money, in your example about the porsche and ethics, let me give you an example about ethics. Have you ever heard of Cobalt? It's a mineral that electronic devices use because of it's properties, but it took several exploted chidlren to exctract a can of that mineral. Until 2012 several companies agreed to stop using it
Probably you bought a device with that mineral, me too.
Let me give you another example, Jonas Salk didn't patent the polio vaccine, even when he knew it would generate millions. THATS ETHIC!

So in your all mighty porsche example you are missing all the prodction that porsche took and that probably none of the workers can buy one.Am I saying they should steal one?

Absolutely NO, Apart from physycal needs I think steal is wrong, but my whole point is not about
"Hey I don't have a cellphone so I will steal one"
Nope is about "millions of cellphones are being produced, but you can't have one because you can't afford it"
"Millions of people are homeless but there are several houses unoccupied"
"UK burned a ton of food so the price won't drop, but children in Africa are starving"

I know this is the way Capitalism works, but I would never judge some one doing an opposite to that, plus stealing means you took something from someone, and piracy is about copying that Porsche.
Get my idea?

 

[Apanzee]

No, piracy is about thievery. Do you know the definition of a pirate? Look it up.

Intellectual property, is still property. If you didn't write the code, or develop the software/algorithms - then you have no "right" to it. It does not belong to you.

If it's a money thing, get a part time job. I'm a culinary apprentice and work three jobs. What I own, I've EARNED. People like you make me sick.

Argue this all you want, but not here. Piracy and promotion of the subject are forbidden on Tom's. You have been warned by ssddx.

This bus of nonsensical over-entitled BS is at the end of the line. This is where you get off.