Toshiba 65L9300U: A 4K HDTV With HDMI 2.0 Support
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ceberle
April 3, 2014 12:00:03 AM
With Ultra HD monitors becoming more prolific, we thought it was time to check out a 4K HDTV. Toshiba sent us its 65-inch L9300U LED panel. This TV offers 3D and cloud features in addition to a high pixel count. We put it through its paces in this review.
Toshiba 65L9300U: A 4K HDTV With HDMI 2.0 Support : Read more
Toshiba 65L9300U: A 4K HDTV With HDMI 2.0 Support : Read more
More about : toshiba 65l9300u hdtv hdmi support
SteelCity1981
April 3, 2014 1:09:40 AM
Toshiba still holding onto the 3D in their TV's. I got caught up in the hype and bought me a 3D TV two years ago and honestly I have only used it maybe 4 or 5 times if that. It's something now that I look back on I could have really done without and saved money on a regular HDTV, but live and learn. a cheaper non 3D version of this would be nice. I, like most people can do without the 3D function on a TV, esp if it will reduce the cost on the TV itself. It is nice to finally see a 4k TV come with HDMI 2.0 support, something that 1080p TV's don't need but 4k do in order to take full advantage of it by allowing 60fps.
Score
2
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cats_Paw
April 3, 2014 2:10:49 AM
Untill we get 4K contenent or GPUs can manage 4K resolutions in AAA titles with highest settings possible, 4K makes as much sense as a fast car in a 50 Km/h town.On the 3D matter, it does look cool on a projector if you get a 120+ inch screen, but in tvs, it looks like a gimick to me.Now... The HDMI improvment is something I want. Ive been wanting Full HD 60Hz 3D for a long time, and it seems 3D has been so unpopular that it didnt even make sense to invest in improving bandwidth.
Score
2
alchemy69
April 3, 2014 2:35:03 AM
TheDane
April 3, 2014 3:48:44 AM
TheDane
April 3, 2014 3:50:23 AM
Score
0
Immaculate
April 3, 2014 4:03:09 AM
drwho1
April 3, 2014 6:44:17 AM
aberkae
April 3, 2014 7:05:26 AM
NinjaNerd56
April 3, 2014 7:38:32 AM
I have a Toshiba set in the bedroom and it's only OK overall.Of course, part of that is the 65 inch Panasonic plasma in the living room. Only 1080p, but incredible picture in every aspect. I spent about as much on it last year as this Toshiba costs now at MSRP. Don't regret a penny.Given the dearth of 4K content, I'll stick with this plasma beast for a while. May be the last year we see plasma, so I'm about to see if the 100,000 hour rating on the panel is for real.And, I'd put my calibrated Panasonic against any set, including 4K machines, with 1080p content. And I'd win. Sadly, resolution and 'smart' features are the focus of these early 4K sets and as picture comes behind.That said...it's 4K! This will be neat...in 2-3 years.
Score
0
davidgirgis
April 3, 2014 8:26:21 AM
Zeroplanetz
April 3, 2014 8:44:16 AM
Quote:
I want 4k 120hz min, with 3d, and no need for WiFi or internet in it and at 50". For no more than $1k. That's when ill buy. No not some almost. But true 4k. It would be nice though if I could add a blutooth dongle for video receiving from my PC. Score
0
iknowhowtofixit
April 3, 2014 8:54:14 AM
Steveymoo
April 3, 2014 8:54:26 AM
davidgirgis
April 3, 2014 9:11:04 AM
Quote:
So uh, why does Dell charge the same for their 32" US again? This has twice the real estate, and similar (if not better) performance, but costs exactly the same.Anyone?Score
0
Zeroplanetz
April 3, 2014 9:19:20 AM
Quote:
Quote:
I want 4k 120hz min, with 3d, and no need for WiFi or internet in it and at 50". For no more than $1k. That's when ill buy. No not some almost. But true 4k. It would be nice though if I could add a blutooth dongle for video receiving from my PC. Score
0
RoyMacDonald
April 3, 2014 10:00:42 AM
Pioneer's 4k TV has display port. HDMI 2 has nowhere near the bandwidth of display port so it would be better to have a DP on sets as there are plenty of games that support 4k already. I don't get the detractors of 4k, when you look at how much better even tiny iPhone screens are with retina displays. (and I do watch TV from 4' away)
Score
0
georgekn3mp
April 3, 2014 11:12:34 AM
Great review! I have the 58" version of this TV the 58L9300U and the only real difference is that is smaller and has ACTIVE 3D instead of passive 3D. The picture is great and the firmware was updated to HDMI 2.0 which definitely will help later with HDMI 2.0 GPU's WHEN they come out. it upscales very well based on content, the better source material does make a difference. It works well with my SLI GTX670's but the 30 MHZ limitation does cause issues with more lag and jitter. Upscaling BluRays looks great.... or streaming 1080p works great on a Wireless N connection.
Score
0
hannibal
April 3, 2014 11:37:51 AM
traumadisaster
April 3, 2014 7:33:09 PM
Last year at this time I went 4k and only for pc gaming. I still drop my jaw each time a put a new game in that I used to play at 1080p and then see in 2160p. There is a handful of games that I don't like at 30hz but there are a ton that is fine for me. The cool thing is I got to experience 120hz gaming at 1080p and that is equally fantastic. Using the 50 inch Seiki and Titan btw.
Score
0
dimar
April 3, 2014 10:20:07 PM
b3roldan
April 4, 2014 2:13:52 AM
Purchased the Toshiba Regza 55" 55KL300H in 2012. Experienced the following problems:-
1) Torchlight at the corners
2) Input lag when playing games via HDMI
3) There is a delay caused by picture processing when using HDMI. (even in game mode)
4) The picture settings does not remember "Clearscan" and "Resolution+" settings. I have to change it manually everytime I change my input from TV to PC/Xbox.
5) The response to remote control signal is slow -- at least 2 second delay.
I did call customer support and they sent engineers to my place on 2 occasions, they even brought their own TV to my place to test and I was able to prove the problems existed on both TVs. It was quite a disappointing experience honestly.
The engineers' feedback was basically this:
1) Engineer: The model is really like that. This occurs on all our models.
My Response: If it is slow for all models shouldn't they fix it via a new downloadable firmware update like the US version's 50L5200U? U.S. owners experience the same problem and the update fixed it.
Engineer: They use a different panel and Hong Kong doesn't provide firmware update service
2) Engineer: This is a low-end TV and cannot be compared to high-end samsung/LG TVs, therefore we can't expect it to perform well.
My Response: When I bought the TV, I was told I was buying a high-end special edition 50th anniversary HKD18,990 TV at a very good price of HKD8,990. If I was looking for a low-end TV, I wouldn't have bought this.
3) Engineer: In Hong Kong, these TVs are used for watching TVs and not for playing games, no one uses it to play games. if you want to play games you should use a PC monitor.
My Response: I can name several people i know, both friends and colleagues who plug their TVs to their playstation/xbox. If these TVs were only meant for gaming, why is there a "Game Mode" feature and is stated in your brochure as "designed for gamers to minimize input lag"? As you can see even with "Game Mode" enabled, there is no change in input lag therefore the funciton is not working.
The engineers gave me an impression that they didn't want to fix the problem and kept giving me ridiculous excuses.
It was quite a disapointing experience, seeing that this is my first HDTV and it took me a while to save for it.
Sold it a month later and bought the LG 47LM7600. The LG was perfect, fast response in gaming, great UI, updates every 2 months (at least shows they are doing something). Nice remote too! Everything just works. For anyone looking to purchase in 2014, I recommend LG / Samsung > Panasonic > Sony/Sharp ... I have blacklisted Toshiba.
Added a pile of newlines - SS
Original:
1) Torchlight at the corners
2) Input lag when playing games via HDMI
3) There is a delay caused by picture processing when using HDMI. (even in game mode)
4) The picture settings does not remember "Clearscan" and "Resolution+" settings. I have to change it manually everytime I change my input from TV to PC/Xbox.
5) The response to remote control signal is slow -- at least 2 second delay.
I did call customer support and they sent engineers to my place on 2 occasions, they even brought their own TV to my place to test and I was able to prove the problems existed on both TVs. It was quite a disappointing experience honestly.
The engineers' feedback was basically this:
1) Engineer: The model is really like that. This occurs on all our models.
My Response: If it is slow for all models shouldn't they fix it via a new downloadable firmware update like the US version's 50L5200U? U.S. owners experience the same problem and the update fixed it.
Engineer: They use a different panel and Hong Kong doesn't provide firmware update service
2) Engineer: This is a low-end TV and cannot be compared to high-end samsung/LG TVs, therefore we can't expect it to perform well.
My Response: When I bought the TV, I was told I was buying a high-end special edition 50th anniversary HKD18,990 TV at a very good price of HKD8,990. If I was looking for a low-end TV, I wouldn't have bought this.
3) Engineer: In Hong Kong, these TVs are used for watching TVs and not for playing games, no one uses it to play games. if you want to play games you should use a PC monitor.
My Response: I can name several people i know, both friends and colleagues who plug their TVs to their playstation/xbox. If these TVs were only meant for gaming, why is there a "Game Mode" feature and is stated in your brochure as "designed for gamers to minimize input lag"? As you can see even with "Game Mode" enabled, there is no change in input lag therefore the funciton is not working.
The engineers gave me an impression that they didn't want to fix the problem and kept giving me ridiculous excuses.
It was quite a disapointing experience, seeing that this is my first HDTV and it took me a while to save for it.
Sold it a month later and bought the LG 47LM7600. The LG was perfect, fast response in gaming, great UI, updates every 2 months (at least shows they are doing something). Nice remote too! Everything just works. For anyone looking to purchase in 2014, I recommend LG / Samsung > Panasonic > Sony/Sharp ... I have blacklisted Toshiba.
Added a pile of newlines - SS
Original:
Spoiler
Purchased the Toshiba Regza 55" 55KL300H in 2012. Experienced the following problems:-(1) Torchlight at the corners(2) Input lag when playing games via HDMI(3) There is a delay caused by picture processing when using HDMI. (even in game mode)(4) The picture settings does not remember "Clearscan" and "Resolution+" settings. I have to change it manually everytime I change my input from TV to PC/Xbox.(5) The response to remote control signal is slow -- at least 2 second delay.I did call customer support and they sent engineers to my place on 2 occasions, they even brought their own TV to my place to test and I was able to prove the problems existed on both TVs. It was quite a disappointing experience honestly.The engineers' feedback was basically this.(1) Engineer: The model is really like that. This occurs on all our models. My Response: If it is slow for all models shouldn't they fix it via a new downloadable firmware update like the US version's 50L5200U? U.S. owners experience the same problem and the update fixed it.Engineer: They use a different panel and Hong Kong doesn't provide firmware update service(2) Engineer: This is a low-end TV and cannot be compared to high-end samsung/LG TVs, therefore we can't expect it to perform well.My Response: When I bought the TV, I was told I was buying a high-end special edition 50th anniversary HKD18,990 TV at a very good price of HKD8,990. If I was looking for a low-end TV, I wouldn't have bought this.(3) Engineer: In Hong Kong, these TVs are used for watching TVs and not for playing games, no one uses it to play games. if you want to play games you should use a PC monitor.My Response: I can name several people i know, both friends and colleagues who plug their TVs to their playstation/xbox. If these TVs were only meant for gaming, why is there a "Game Mode" feature and is stated in your brochure as "designed for gamers to minimize input lag"? As you can see even with "Game Mode" enabled, there is no change in input lag therefore the funciton is not working.The engineers gave me an impression that they didn't want to fix the problem and kept giving me ridiculous excuses.
It was quite a disapointing experience, seeing that this is my first HDTV and it took me a while to save for it.Sold it a month later and bought the LG 47LM7600. The LG was perfect, fast response in gaming, great UI, updates every 2 months (at least shows they are doing something). Nice remote too! Everything just works. For anyone looking to purchase in 2014, I recommend LG / Samsung > Panasonic > Sony/Sharp ... I have blacklisted Toshiba.
It was quite a disapointing experience, seeing that this is my first HDTV and it took me a while to save for it.Sold it a month later and bought the LG 47LM7600. The LG was perfect, fast response in gaming, great UI, updates every 2 months (at least shows they are doing something). Nice remote too! Everything just works. For anyone looking to purchase in 2014, I recommend LG / Samsung > Panasonic > Sony/Sharp ... I have blacklisted Toshiba.Score
1
Doug Lord
April 4, 2014 8:34:20 AM
PLEASE paste this $h1t all over Cnet to refute their BS "4K is Stupid" shtick. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one excited for 4k, h.265, Dolby HDR, 800 nit, 10-bit native video.Now a question. You like the passive glasses for the light output, but the 3D resolution is weak in 1080p. Active glasses have bad lighting but do they also halve the resolution? IE what is better a super bright TV with active glasses or passive glasses?Any news on the Vizio Referance series? If that beast does what they say is does and comes out under $5k - its going to be mind blowing.
Score
0
MrMusAddict
April 4, 2014 8:54:42 AM
Quote:
So uh, why does Dell charge the same for their 32" US again? This has twice the real estate, and similar (if not better) performance, but costs exactly the same.Anyone?Score
0
laststop311
April 4, 2014 8:09:54 PM
Ill take my panasonic 65zt60. Paid 3100 for a display model with zero cosmetic defects and zero picture quality issues. Even left me enough for a pretty nice 7.1 surround sound setup Onkyo HT-S5600. For 3650 I have arguably the king of reference tv's and a 600 dollar 7.1 surround that cost 550 for me. I can pretty much guarantee I'm having a better viewing experience with about the same money spent vs this 3500 dollar tv.
Score
0
ceberle
April 5, 2014 8:31:20 AM
Doug Lord said:
PLEASE paste this $h1t all over Cnet to refute their BS "4K is Stupid" shtick. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one excited for 4k, h.265, Dolby HDR, 800 nit, 10-bit native video.Now a question. You like the passive glasses for the light output, but the 3D resolution is weak in 1080p. Active glasses have bad lighting but do they also halve the resolution? IE what is better a super bright TV with active glasses or passive glasses?Any news on the Vizio Referance series? If that beast does what they say is does and comes out under $5k - its going to be mind blowing.Passive 3D works by rendering each frame's odd and even numbered lines alternately; like the interlaced CRTs of old. That means each frame only shows half the vertical resolution. On a 1080p display, you can see this effect if you sit close enough since only 540 lines are on the screen at any one time. With a 2160p display like this, you'll see 1080 lines in each frame. Remember that there are four times the number of pixels packed into the same screen size. So with a passive system and 4K, you get the best of both worlds - max light output and 1080p resolution in 3D. Plus the glasses are cheaper, lighter, and don't need to be charged or sync to the display.
Active 3D means each frame is rendered at full resolution. It's up to the glasses' shutters to alternately block the right and left eyes in sync with the correct frame. So you get all the resolution but the shutters cut light transmission by as much as 80 percent.
-Christian-
Score
1
davidgirgis
April 6, 2014 6:47:07 PM
ceberle said:
Doug Lord said:
PLEASE paste this $h1t all over Cnet to refute their BS "4K is Stupid" shtick. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one excited for 4k, h.265, Dolby HDR, 800 nit, 10-bit native video.Now a question. You like the passive glasses for the light output, but the 3D resolution is weak in 1080p. Active glasses have bad lighting but do they also halve the resolution? IE what is better a super bright TV with active glasses or passive glasses?Any news on the Vizio Referance series? If that beast does what they say is does and comes out under $5k - its going to be mind blowing.Passive 3D works by rendering each frame's odd and even numbered lines alternately; like the interlaced CRTs of old. That means each frame only shows half the vertical resolution. On a 1080p display, you can see this effect if you sit close enough since only 540 lines are on the screen at any one time. With a 2160p display like this, you'll see 1080 lines in each frame. Remember that there are four times the number of pixels packed into the same screen size. So with a passive system and 4K, you get the best of both worlds - max light output and 1080p resolution in 3D. Plus the glasses are cheaper, lighter, and don't need to be charged or sync to the display.
Active 3D means each frame is rendered at full resolution. It's up to the glasses' shutters to alternately block the right and left eyes in sync with the correct frame. So you get all the resolution but the shutters cut light transmission by as much as 80 percent.
-Christian-
Dear Christian,
Thank you for the article. I found it very informative.
Question: The JVC DLA-RS6710U projector claims "60p 4K signals at 4:2:0 may be input and displayed via HDMI 1.4a connection". Would you elaborate on this statement? What is the difference between 60p and 60Hz?
Side Question: Could you replicate the IMAX 3D HFR (48fps) experience using possible future consumer electronics? Meaning at what frequency [Hz] and resolution per eye [pixels x pixels] does the image resemble that theater experience?
Thank you,
David Girgis
Score
1
ceberle
April 7, 2014 9:22:50 AM
David, the question of 1080p/60 over HDMI is a little confusing because of manufacturer's statements like this. I'll try to explain. HDMI 1.4 WILL support 4k at up to 30 fps. And yes, for this discussion, fps and Hz are the same thing. Fps simply refers to the framerate of the incoming signal and Hz refers to the refresh rate of the display. They have to marry up in some fashion; either by matching rates or by a multiple like 60fps - 120Hz.
As I was saying, HDMI 1.4 WILL support 4k up to 30fps. Beyond that, you'll have to use HDMI 2.0. The newest-gen JVC projectors will accept a 4K 60Hz signal if that signal is 4:2:0 component. That is the encoding of all Blu-ray content BUT, you'll need a player capable of that output. Most players upconvert to at least 4:2:2 but usually 4:4:4 before output, and you can't change that. The only player I know of that can do it is an Oppo in Source Direct Mode. And here's another BUT - Blu-ray content is encoded at either 24fps (film) or 60i (video, in effect 30fps). So any discussion of 4K 60p is moot because the only content encoded that way is on server-based players like Sony's box they sell with their 4K displays.
So to sum up the first answer, you aren't likely to encounter 4K signals at 60p any time soon so HDMI 1.4 will actually work just fine if you have a source that outputs 4K. For now, 4K displays will be upconverting 1080p signals more than anything else.
Question 2 - To perfectly replicate 48fps, the content has to be encoded at that framerate. Blu-ray copies of The Hobbit films are 24fps because 48p is not supported by the vast majority of sources or displays. You can fake it if your display supports frame interpolation. In that case internal processing creates and inserts additional frames to smooth motion and increase resolution. And theoretically, 3D shouldn't be an issue at full resolution and framerate because the framepack method of encoding (already used on all 3D Blu-rays) takes no more storage space or bandwidth than 2D.
So for now, frame interpolation is the only way to recreate the HFR experience in the home. And a display that supports frame interpolation in 3D (a few do) will come pretty close to the theatrical HFR experience; except without the 30-foot tall screen of course!
-Christian-
As I was saying, HDMI 1.4 WILL support 4k up to 30fps. Beyond that, you'll have to use HDMI 2.0. The newest-gen JVC projectors will accept a 4K 60Hz signal if that signal is 4:2:0 component. That is the encoding of all Blu-ray content BUT, you'll need a player capable of that output. Most players upconvert to at least 4:2:2 but usually 4:4:4 before output, and you can't change that. The only player I know of that can do it is an Oppo in Source Direct Mode. And here's another BUT - Blu-ray content is encoded at either 24fps (film) or 60i (video, in effect 30fps). So any discussion of 4K 60p is moot because the only content encoded that way is on server-based players like Sony's box they sell with their 4K displays.
So to sum up the first answer, you aren't likely to encounter 4K signals at 60p any time soon so HDMI 1.4 will actually work just fine if you have a source that outputs 4K. For now, 4K displays will be upconverting 1080p signals more than anything else.
Question 2 - To perfectly replicate 48fps, the content has to be encoded at that framerate. Blu-ray copies of The Hobbit films are 24fps because 48p is not supported by the vast majority of sources or displays. You can fake it if your display supports frame interpolation. In that case internal processing creates and inserts additional frames to smooth motion and increase resolution. And theoretically, 3D shouldn't be an issue at full resolution and framerate because the framepack method of encoding (already used on all 3D Blu-rays) takes no more storage space or bandwidth than 2D.
So for now, frame interpolation is the only way to recreate the HFR experience in the home. And a display that supports frame interpolation in 3D (a few do) will come pretty close to the theatrical HFR experience; except without the 30-foot tall screen of course!
-Christian-
Score
1
davidgirgis
April 7, 2014 3:58:04 PM
well said.
Yes, I have seen the sony 4k player they sell with their TVs at Fry's and was very impressed. As you know, the thing about a 30-foot screen is a matter of viewing angle, ratio and placement. If you sit close enough to a 4k monitor like the Toshiba, I don't see why you would need a much bigger screen to perceive the same size picture as the IMAX.
I hope the 4k players of tomorrow will support 48 fps 4:4:4 encoding of film. I believe manufacturers have to, at least, start thinking about authentic reproduction of film content because more and more movies are shot digitally eliminating telecine and any kind of pulldown process associated with converting 24 fps film to video. Peter Jackson is shooting on Red Dragon 6k at 48 fps, and future 8k standards will natively support 120 Hz.
This is the reason I am excited about nVidia G-SYNC, where the framerate [fps] of the output is locked to the refresh rate [Hz] of the display. This is variable for games, but locked at one value for movies.
-David
Yes, I have seen the sony 4k player they sell with their TVs at Fry's and was very impressed. As you know, the thing about a 30-foot screen is a matter of viewing angle, ratio and placement. If you sit close enough to a 4k monitor like the Toshiba, I don't see why you would need a much bigger screen to perceive the same size picture as the IMAX.
I hope the 4k players of tomorrow will support 48 fps 4:4:4 encoding of film. I believe manufacturers have to, at least, start thinking about authentic reproduction of film content because more and more movies are shot digitally eliminating telecine and any kind of pulldown process associated with converting 24 fps film to video. Peter Jackson is shooting on Red Dragon 6k at 48 fps, and future 8k standards will natively support 120 Hz.
This is the reason I am excited about nVidia G-SYNC, where the framerate [fps] of the output is locked to the refresh rate [Hz] of the display. This is variable for games, but locked at one value for movies.
-David
Score
1
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