High-end gaming PC to last - advice?

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yimboli

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PCPartPicker link: (see latest post)


Approximate Purchase Date: some time within the next month

Budget Range: not a concern, but I do want a good performance-per-dollar. A $2000 system should be fine, I'd expect.

System Usage from Most to Least Important: gaming, internet

Are you buying a monitor: No

Parts to Upgrade: New build, though I am reusing some old parts from a build back in 2008. You can see in the PCPartPicker link which are already purchased. I'll list the parts I'm reusing here for convenience:
- Antec 900 case
- Acer 23" G235H
- PC P&C Silencer Mk III 750W ATX Power Supply
- Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro
All other parts are being "upgraded"

Do you need to buy OS: Yes

Preferred Website(s) for Parts: Newegg.

Location: Clearwater, FL

Parts Preferences: I'm strongly leaning toward an Intel CPU and Asus Motherboard. Also, based on this May 2014 TH review on GPUs, I'm leaning toward a Radeon for performance-per dollar, with an eye toward upgrading later.

Overclocking: NO

SLI or Crossfire: Maybe later.

Your Monitor Resolution: 1920x1080

Additional Comments: I don't care how it looks - the blander the better (if I could get rid of this Antec 900 window, I would). I'd like it quiet, if possible. Definitely not a vacuum cleaner :)

And Most Importantly, Why Are You Upgrading: Old PC is broken.

My own comments:
My goal is to make a PC that will last with GPU upgrades for several years. Please see the PCPartPicker link here.

I had made a post before, but forgot to make it a discussion. I've since found some answers, so here is a more limited post.

I will NOT be overclocking.

Specific questions:

- RAM: Asus's QVL for the mobo lists all RAM over 1600 MHz as (O.C.) RAM. Why is it all labelled as overclocked? Is that incorrect? The Corsair RAM I've selected is only 1.5V yet it's under "DDR3 1866 (O.C.)".

- Mobo: At this ASUS Z87 Specs Comparison Chart, the Sabertooth Z87 is listed as having "Remote GO!" under the Wifi GO! column, but some other boards simply have check marks. Does that mean the Sabertooth has less capability? Will I be able to connect my Samsung S4 to my desktop wirelessly using this technology?

- CPU cooler: 5yo Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro. I think it'll be fine since I don't intend to overclock.. wondering if you all agree.
 
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realchaos

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I'm assuming that you already purchased the parts that are labeled purchased, correct? Do you have a way of returning and buying something else? Most of the components that are purchased are not that great, to be honest.

Leaving the purchased parts alone, you can consider this:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-4460 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($189.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro Rev.2 45.0 CFM Fluid Dynamic Bearing CPU Cooler (Purchased For $0.00)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-H97-D3H ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($107.55 @ Newegg)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($76.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($148.95 @ Newegg)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($89.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: Asus Radeon R9 290 4GB DirectCU II Video Card ($416.13 @ Newegg)
Case: Antec Nine Hundred ATX Mid Tower Case (Purchased For $0.00)
Power Supply: PC Power & Cooling 750W 80+ Certified ATX Power Supply (Purchased For $0.00)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.98 @ OutletPC)
Monitor: Acer G235HAbd 23.0" Monitor (Purchased For $0.00)
Total: $1119.58
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-06-04 23:41 EDT-0400)

-i5 and 8gb of ram is plenty for gaming.
-No point of a Z87 chipset and a K processor if you're not overclocking.
-The 840 Pro SSD only writes better and have a longer write longevity over the EVO. Since you won't do much writing in a gaming build, the EVO is fine.

 
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yimboli

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Thank you very much for the replies :)



That is interesting, I have not ready anything about the Xeons.. I'll look into that. I haven't found much in the way of recent comparisons between i5s, i7s, and Xeons. Everything seems focused on i5s and i7s, which is why I was looking at those only. Is integrated graphics a bad thing if not used? I wouldn't mind having it just in case a graphics card blows so I can test the rest of the system...

Also, a slightly inferior Xeon appears to be $30 more expensive: http://pcpartpicker.com/parts/cpu/#s=13,26&C=4,12&Z=2700,4700&sort=d1

Some other stuff I looked at:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2273978
http://superuser.com/questions/122914/what-is-the-difference-between-an-intel-i7-and-a-xeon-quad-core-processor



Yes, all the purchased parts are still around from my old build and I intend to reuse them unless there's a compelling reason to repurchase. Probably 6 years past the return deadlines ;)
- Antec 900 case
- Acer 23" G235H
- PC P&C Silencer Mk III 750W ATX Power Supply
- Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro

One reason I went with the i7 over i5 was for hyperthreading. I don't intend to switch CPUs for another 5-7 years, and I anticipate more games will utilize hyperthreading now that new-gen consoles are out with 8 cores. Thus i5 is still not a consideration. I can afford the hyperthreading for potential future use, so I'll get it.

I'll look more into the H chipset vice Z. I'm willing to pay for a Z board if there are other features that are worth having, even if I don't intend to OC. I never knew Z boards were the only ones with OC capability... back to the drawing board on the mobo.

Interesting point about the EVO. Second time someone's mentioned that. I'll probably switch that.

Still looking for thoughts/advice :)
 
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realchaos

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Dang 6 years? People usually change their power supplies after 5 years because after that long, it starts to grow old and weak. You definitely don't want a weak power supply because it can damage your newer components.
For the case, the Antec 900 has a lot of outdated features and it doesn't really meet the modern standard. It looks cool, but there is virtually no cable management so that can really damage the airflow and have your components running hotter than usual. It's really up to you to decide if you want to switch the case or not.
The Artic cooling Freezer 7 Pro should be fine since you're not overclocking. Just make sure you have the installation brackets for the Socket LGA 1150. Since you bought it 6 years ago, I doubt you'll have the bracket though.
The i5 have been the best processor for gaming for years for a reason. Games still do not really utilize the hyper threading of an i7. At higher resolutions, the game shifts more of its load onto the graphics card rather than the processor. This is why games are mostly like 80% graphic card 20% processor. Even when games do start to utilize hyper threading, I'm pretty sure an i5 would still be enough though you have enough room in your budget to fit in an i7 if you wish.
 
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yimboli

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The PCP&C power supplies had really good reviews back when I built my last rig in 2008. It hasn't run in the past 2 years... I put 4 years of load on it max. Still think I need another one? PCPartPicker has estimated 457 watts max and the PSU is 750 watts.

Thanks for the note on hyperthreading - not that I'm an expert on this business by any means, but it makes sense that if new consoles have more than 4 cores, more games will use hyperthreading later. I'll stick with the i7.

And regarding the Antec 900... I'll probably cut some holes to help with cable management. I've seen build posts with extra holes cut that made it look quite neat, but still sturdy. This will likely be my last build with this case anyway.

I've read some bad things about the Asus non-reference cooler on the DirectCU II, so I'm thinking about XFX instead.. it's the only brand that has the $150 in games offer on newegg besides Asus, that I'd be willing to trust... double lifetime warranty helped that decision a lot.

EXCELLENT point about the cooling bracket. My cooler was for LGA 775... very much doubt it will fit, so I'll use the stock cooler and see how it runs, maybe upgrade later.

Still wondering about these questions, though:
- RAM: Asus's QVL for the mobo lists all RAM over 1600 MHz as (O.C.) RAM. Why is it all labelled as overclocked? Is that incorrect? The Corsair RAM I've selected is only 1.5V yet it's under "DDR3 1866 (O.C.)".

- Mobo: At this ASUS Z87 Specs Comparison Chart, the Sabertooth Z87 is listed as having "Remote GO!" under the Wifi GO! column, but some other boards simply have check marks. Does that mean the Sabertooth has less capability? Will I be able to connect my Samsung S4 to my desktop wirelessly using this technology?
Click to expand...
 
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realchaos

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I would always say better safe than sorry, but if you really want to save money then you can try using the PCP&C psu.

You can't really compare gaming computers to consoles because the console components are so much weaker. So many people use this argument and it's not really valid considering that regular desktop processors are so much more stronger. Consoles are based on the 28nm design whereas the Haswells are based on the 22nm design. In the end, it's all up to you on whether to get an i5 or i7, but I can tell you right now that an i7 is a waste of money for a gaming computer.

You can try cutting out holes on the Antec 900, but it still stands that there isn't enough room on the back panel to fit cables. Up to you if you want bad airflow.

XFX tend to have inferior cooling on gpus compared to other brands. This MSI one would be a better choice and it comes with the games: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127774&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-na-_-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=

For the RAM, if you get 1866mhz RAM, the motherboard will default it to 1600mhz. You just need to go into the BIOs and manually set in the timings and speeds.

Here is a read-up on Remote GO!: http://event.asus.com/2012/mb/M5A99_97_eventsite/Exclusive-Control-Features-1.htm
 
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yimboli

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Thanks again for the response, I've re-narrowed my component list down to a choice on the GPU. The Asus DCUII cooler seems to leave the VRAM hot.. around 92*C while gaming:
Asus' R9 290X DirectCU II OC has a bit of a problem; its cooler was actually designed for the larger GK110 GPU on its GeForce GTX 780 Ti board. You can see this in the image below, where two of the heat pipes don't tough Hawaii at all, and two others make partial contact.
~ http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-r9-290-and-290x,3728-6.html
Click to expand...

What does everyone think about the VRAM temperature problem on Asus' DCUII cooler? How important is it?

I presume the 290X and 290 coolers are the same by looking at them.

Seems most recommend Asus or Sapphire. I'm over to Sapphire for now unless I'm looking at the Asus problem incorrectly.

Went back to the i5 also. Another tomshardware pick in their latest CPU roundup.

Regarding the Antec 900, it's the first edition one with none of the cable management holes, but I will be cutting with a dremel to make the management better than the rats nest I had before. Seeing some pictures and guides really helped - something I'm looking forward to customize. Here's one I looked at, if anyone is curious: http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=576966

About the RemoteGo!, I guess I'm worried about nothing... I just don't get the difference between a checkmark under WifiGo! on Asus's mobo spec chart versus RemoteGo! Anyway, found a youtube video that shows some cool features: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5e7KSW-HQI

All this has brought the budget down to a more respectable $1500ish. Just need to settle on a GPU now.

Here's the updated PCPartPicker: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/gcmmFT
 
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realchaos

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Sapphire is a very good brand for AMD gpus and would have been my next suggestion. They have one of the best cooling solutions for the Hawaii architecture. Great choice on the GPU.

That case is going to give you a huge pain, but if you're willing to do some DIY work and still have inferior cooling to save money, then it could work.

Still some problems with your updated build:
-The processor is locked. You want the K variant to overclock it.
-Sabertooth motherboards are over-rated and over-priced. The thermal armor is a gimmick. You're better off with a ROG motherboard, which is still very high quality and allows for good overclocking.
-If you really want to keep the 16gb of ram, then get something cheaper and better. This G. Skill set is cheaper and faster which can allow for better overclocks on the processor: http://pcpartpicker.com/part/gskill-memory-f32400c11d16gab
-I would also advise to get a good cpu cooler to allow for overclocking.

Here's the changes I made:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4690K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($239.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 82.5 CFM CPU Cooler ($90.98 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Asus MAXIMUS VII HERO ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($209.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill Ares Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-2400 Memory ($149.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($134.99 @ Best Buy)
Storage: Western Digital BLACK SERIES 4TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($241.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon R9 290 4GB Vapor-X Video Card ($457.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Antec Nine Hundred ATX Mid Tower Case (Purchased For $0.00)
Power Supply: PC Power & Cooling 750W 80+ Certified ATX Power Supply (Purchased For $0.00)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit)
Monitor: Acer G235HAbd 23.0" Monitor (Purchased For $0.00)
Total: $1525.91
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-06-14 03:41 EDT-0400
 
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yimboli

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Okay, thanks for the help on all once again realchaos. I've always heard Corsair is the best choice for memory, and seen many posts praising the Vengeance Pro series. Could you elaborate on why you're recommending that particular set of memory?

Wow, you really don't like this case :) full frontal fans, fan on top, on side, in back... only thing I can see not to love is the cable management, which I intend to fix. Without recommending a different case, what would you do to make it better?

And thanks for the mobo suggestion... I'll check out the specs here in a bit after dinner. A quick look at http://www.asus.com/us/site/motherboards/Z97/comparison/ shows it's not thunderbolt capable, nor with RemoteGo! Thunderbolt I could live without... but the RemoteGo! is just too future-fiction to pass up I think.

While I don't intend to overclock any time soon, if I ever do it'll probably be the CPU and/or GPU. Is there much tangible benefit to overclocking ram?!
 
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realchaos

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For memory, almost all memory are the same. There really isn't one "better" brand for memory as every memory kit with the same specs will perform the same. I chose this particular kit because it sports a fast speed at a good price. The faster speed will help you achieve a more stable overclock on the processor.

I don't really like the Antec 900 because it's a really old and out-dated case that's not really suited for modern components. Just because it has fans does not mean that are good or efficient fans that would provide good airflow. Also, the cable management will be extremely hard as I've seen people have a hard time fitting the cables behind the motherboard try.

For the motherboard, if you really need RemoteGo!, then I would go with the Asus Z97-Pro.

You won't need to overclock the RAM because it is already at 2400mhz.
 
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yimboli

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Disregard about the RAM - found some articles about it. 11/2400 is less than 9/1866.

Out of curiosity, what tower would you recommend? I found some room in the budget for a case after all ;) I'd like a cool, quiet system that doesn't look flashy. I'd rather it look bland so professional friends don't look at me funny when they see the tower. (If I had a black plate that would fit the Antec 900's window, I'd replace it)
 
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realchaos

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It has a higher CAS time, but the faster speed will help you achieve a better stable overclock on your processor (basically repeating the same thing I've been saying this whole thread).

For a case, you might want to look at the Fractal Design Define R4. It's very bland, can come without a window, extremely quiet, and keeps the components cool.
 
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