Air Cooling vs Water Cooling : Things You Need To Know
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Overclocking
- Water Cooling
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Cooling
Last response: in Overclocking
First of all there are many threads with endless questions regarding air and water cooling so lets start with the obvious and go from there.
Question 1; I have no intentions of overclocking at all, do I need an aftermarket air or water cooler?
No, your AMD or Intel stock air cooler is all the cooling you need and was designed to cool your CPU with a limited 3 year boxed warranty.
Question 2; I want to overclock a little, can I do this with a stock cooler?
Some have;
But it is absolutely not recommended!
As some motherboards auto overclocking features could possibly take you to a much higher temperature range than a stock cooler could even begin to handle!
Any overclocking adds additional heat over what the stock heat was before the overclocking, for CPU longevity that extra heat has to be taken care of, as the stock cooler is not designed to deal with an extra heat load, it is designed to handle a stock clocked heat load.
You need an aftermarket cooling solution for any slight overclocking especially using the motherboard auto overclocking features, as some motherboards to maintain stability, push higher voltages auto overclocking, out in the operating system than manually BIOS set settings.
So to be on the safe side you need to invest in an aftermarket cooling solution, but you do not need the high end air or even a CLC water cooling solution, for this purpose a proven air cooler such as the traditionally recommended Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO should be sufficient.
Question 3; I have a Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO but my load temperatures are scary on the high side will adding another fan in push/pull drop my temperatures a lot?
No, unfortunately you may see a 1c ~ 3c load temperature drop, even if you completely change the stock fan setup to two 110cfm fans in a push/pull setup. The Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO is already at it's pinnacle of cooling performance with the fan it comes with, if not, Cooler Master would already have it available with 2 fans in push/pull setup.
For adding an additional fan, or completely changing to higher speed, higher cfm fans, to make a significant performance difference with a heat pipe air cooler, that air cooler has to be of high enough quality to be used as a passive air cooler. (Passive meaning, the heat sink itself has cooling capability, without any mounted fans, just case airflow!)
Question 4; Before I seriously consider water cooling, can the cooling performance be increased on the high quality air coolers, like the Noctua, Phantek, Thermalright, etc.?
Almost all of the high end heat pipe air coolers are passive coolers, which means you can go to higher performance cooling fans and increase the cooling performance, but at the same time seriously increase the noise level.
The manufacturers of these coolers are not just competing in cooling performance but are trying to stay within acceptable noise levels, so the cooling fans they come with are the highest performance they can add to the cooler and still be in an acceptable customer sound levels.
So if you already own one of those coolers and do not mind an increased noise level you can seriously improve their cooling performance by changing out the fans to higher speed and higher cfm cooling fans than the ones they come with.
Question 5; High quality air coolers vs CLC water coolers?
Many are under the disillusion that water coolers are the cure all, yielding higher cooling than the air coolers, and lower noise as well, and that is not true.
Some of the cheaper CLC water cooling solutions do not out perform the air coolers at all and even some of the more expensive cannot best the cooling performance of some of the high quality air coolers running the higher speed cooling fans mentioned in question 4.
CLC water coolers are not a silent option either as some of the cooling fans are tolerable but loud as well. You have to remember whether air coolers or water coolers they both are ambient air cooled!
The radiator of the CLC water cooler has everything to do with it's cooling capabilities, it will take the larger sized radiator CLC water coolers to begin to pass the performance levels of the high quality air coolers.
Reviews and testing comparisons will give you some idea of where the temperature performance of each type cooler crosses paths, but pay attention to whether the ambient temperature was controlled in the reviews, and how does that tested ambient compare to your ambient.
Question 6; I want to do some serious overclocking and I'm considering going to a custom water cooling setup, what do I need to know?
Overclocking performance water cooling requires enough radiator cooling area to bring your water temperatures as close to ambient room temperature as possible, which means you will not have the radiator cooling area you need inside a mid tower case, and even the majority of the full tower cases.
So many of you want the best overclocking water cooling performance you can possibly get, but want it all crammed inside some teeny tiny case, well I am sorry but that's just not going to get the job done.
Many that are after serious overclocking cooling performance headroom mount radiators on the side, top, rear, or even completely independent as a stand alone radiator, or multiple radiators mounted in a RadBox. Some have built their own RadBoxes, some have just modified a separate case dedicated to the radiators, pumps, and cooling fans and usually a fan controller as well.
It is all about having enough radiator cooling field to do the job!
So if you really want overclocking water cooling performance you start with finding a case that can fit your radiator mounting needs, some cases that are designed from scratch just for water cooling are the MountainMods and Caselabs lines of cases.
If your goal is high performance water cooling for the maximum overclocks you can safely run don't cut short when it comes to the radiator cooling field area, or prepare yourself for some gut punching serious disappointment after a major monetary investment that falls way short of your hoped goals.
If you are only considering water cooling for looks, or just to be water cooling because you think it's a neat cooling solution, and could care less about overclocking head room, then pretty much any case will do, and any loop configuration will do, because overclocking heat is not an issue to you.
Question 7; I want to overclock my CPU and GPU much further than my present cooling allows, can I do it all in one loop?
Of course you can as long as you're complying with Question 6 and having enough radiator cooling field to handle the heat load, can it be done with a single or maybe two 240 radiators, NO!
This is the most common mistake made today and most make this mistake because of old information from old stickies and reviews that do not fully address the heat load of the CPUs and high end GPUs presently on the market today.
If you are overclocking your CPU and are expecting high overclock results approaching 5ghz and also running multiple GPUs, you'll get better results and higher CPU stable overclocks, by running 2 separate loops and keeping the GPUs and CPU overclocked heat, from combining the CPU and GPU deltaT into the same loop. (Note: DeltaT is explained very well by Conumdrum in the 2nd link at the bottom of the page.)
However those of us even intending on pushing your CPU overclock to 5ghz are a minority here at Toms Hardware, so the traditional CPU overclock target seems to be around 4.5ghz, and may well work with a single loop problem free.
Looped together the GPUs will affect your CPUs overclock top end, it won't be as bad on the GPU because water cooling is much better on the GPU than air cooling is, and the GPU runs much cooler water cooled.
Adding the GPUs heat even idling to the CPU, will add overclock limiting heat to the CPU, much less when the GPU and CPU are under a heavy gaming load, and you then reach game crashing temperatures.
It seriously depends on just how far you intend pushing that CPU overclock!
Question 8; Since I'm water cooling do I still need case fans running?
Absolutely Yes! Case airflow is still a critical need to cool memory, and other motherboard connected components still relying on air to cool them!
Your water cooling is still air cooled with fans mounted on your radiators and if fresh air flow is not supplied to them, no matter how many fans you have on the radiators, the cooling performance is seriously compromised, you have to have good case air flow!
When the stock CPU air cooler is removed from the socket and replaced with a CPU water block or a CLC water pump block, you just removed the stock air cooling around the CPU socket that was cooling the motherboards voltage regulators!
The stock air cooler was not designed to only cool the CPU, it was designed to additionally cool the surrounding heat producing elements of the entire socket area.
That is the reason the VRs are clustered around the socket, so the stock air cooler also cools them as well as the CPU itself.
So unless you have a motherboard with water cooled VR heat sink blocks, that airflow that was cooling those VRs has got to be replaced, or you will seriously shorten the life of your motherboard.
So just because you're water cooling does not mean you no longer need case fans, but you need to be extremely aware of what still needs air flow to remain cool on that motherboard.
You need to supply any air you completely remove with some type of dedicated air cooling, even if it takes an additional added fan mounting bracket to add a dedicated fan to replace that cooling or suffer the consequences of the neglect.
The best overall cooling results is accomplished by fresh ambient air getting to the elements that need cooling, and if a radiator is pulling preheated air through it, it's cooling capabilities are compromised.
Question 9; Will adding additional fans to my radiator increase it's cooling performance?
It depends on whether the radiator in question is a low FPI (Fins Per Inch) or high FPI radiator.
Low FPI radiators are generally 8 FPI or lower and are specifically designed to use low fan speed, low cfm, which equals low noise, cooling fans.
Adding additional fans to those radiators don't add cooling performance, as most are fully factory tested especially in a kit or CLC, and are already either pre-fitted, or supplied in the kit, with the best performing cooling fan or fans, out of the factory door.
High FPI radiators around at least a 12 count will benefit from adding fans of higher speed, higher cfm, which equals higher noise levels, as the more airflow through the fins they get, the better they cool.
The higher FPI performance radiators require another term which is higher static pressure, static pressure is the fans ability to sustain a constant airflow forced through the cooling fins, the tighter the fins the higher the static pressure needs to be.
The higher the fin count the higher performing fans are needed to force the air through the tighter fin gap, you have to supply the needs or requirements of the radiator in question, or you will not get it's maximum cooling capability.
High FPI radiators are for the more serious overclockers after the lowest Delta they can achieve, Delta meaning the sustained system operating water temperature above ambient room temperature.
The more serious overclockers are also not concerned with higher levels of cooling fan noise, as higher cfm and higher static capable fans are also higher noise rated.
Fan designs have seriously improved as of late, with blade pitch and angle being able to increase static pressure at lower fan speed, with not too much of noise increase, but whether they do the best job or not, well that's up to you to discover.
When you compromise your cooling, you compromise your cooling performance!
I hope this answers at least some of your questions, these are things I have already learned the hard way, at my own monetary expense, from air and water cooling!
I am in hopes that these questions and answers will keep some of you from making the same mistakes, and kicking yourself for wasting the money the mistakes cost you, because the end results were seriously disappointing!
Any of you that may be considering water cooling, I suggest you start your adventure reading and studying these resources:
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/277130-29-read-first-watercooling-sticky
http://www.overclockers.com/guide-deltat-water-cooling/
http://www.overclock.net/t/1415725/a-guide-to-water-cooling-multiple-gpus
http://www.swiftech.com/Resources/White_Papers/Dual%20Loop%20versus%20Single.pdf
http://www.overclockers.com/beginners-guide-water-cooling/
http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/t355358.html
Some of you that are considering overclocking your CPUs whether by air or water, or even past that, this Overclocking study contains some very valuable information, not only backing some of what I've tried to share with you in this thread, but can seriously open your eyes to what's actually possible or not, with the cooling you decide to use.
http://lab501.net/intel-core-i7-4790k-intel-pentium-g3258-overclocking-study/
Ryan
Question 1; I have no intentions of overclocking at all, do I need an aftermarket air or water cooler?
No, your AMD or Intel stock air cooler is all the cooling you need and was designed to cool your CPU with a limited 3 year boxed warranty.
Question 2; I want to overclock a little, can I do this with a stock cooler?
Some have;
But it is absolutely not recommended!
As some motherboards auto overclocking features could possibly take you to a much higher temperature range than a stock cooler could even begin to handle!
Any overclocking adds additional heat over what the stock heat was before the overclocking, for CPU longevity that extra heat has to be taken care of, as the stock cooler is not designed to deal with an extra heat load, it is designed to handle a stock clocked heat load.
You need an aftermarket cooling solution for any slight overclocking especially using the motherboard auto overclocking features, as some motherboards to maintain stability, push higher voltages auto overclocking, out in the operating system than manually BIOS set settings.
So to be on the safe side you need to invest in an aftermarket cooling solution, but you do not need the high end air or even a CLC water cooling solution, for this purpose a proven air cooler such as the traditionally recommended Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO should be sufficient.
Question 3; I have a Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO but my load temperatures are scary on the high side will adding another fan in push/pull drop my temperatures a lot?
No, unfortunately you may see a 1c ~ 3c load temperature drop, even if you completely change the stock fan setup to two 110cfm fans in a push/pull setup. The Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO is already at it's pinnacle of cooling performance with the fan it comes with, if not, Cooler Master would already have it available with 2 fans in push/pull setup.
For adding an additional fan, or completely changing to higher speed, higher cfm fans, to make a significant performance difference with a heat pipe air cooler, that air cooler has to be of high enough quality to be used as a passive air cooler. (Passive meaning, the heat sink itself has cooling capability, without any mounted fans, just case airflow!)
Question 4; Before I seriously consider water cooling, can the cooling performance be increased on the high quality air coolers, like the Noctua, Phantek, Thermalright, etc.?
Almost all of the high end heat pipe air coolers are passive coolers, which means you can go to higher performance cooling fans and increase the cooling performance, but at the same time seriously increase the noise level.
The manufacturers of these coolers are not just competing in cooling performance but are trying to stay within acceptable noise levels, so the cooling fans they come with are the highest performance they can add to the cooler and still be in an acceptable customer sound levels.
So if you already own one of those coolers and do not mind an increased noise level you can seriously improve their cooling performance by changing out the fans to higher speed and higher cfm cooling fans than the ones they come with.
Question 5; High quality air coolers vs CLC water coolers?
Many are under the disillusion that water coolers are the cure all, yielding higher cooling than the air coolers, and lower noise as well, and that is not true.
Some of the cheaper CLC water cooling solutions do not out perform the air coolers at all and even some of the more expensive cannot best the cooling performance of some of the high quality air coolers running the higher speed cooling fans mentioned in question 4.
CLC water coolers are not a silent option either as some of the cooling fans are tolerable but loud as well. You have to remember whether air coolers or water coolers they both are ambient air cooled!
The radiator of the CLC water cooler has everything to do with it's cooling capabilities, it will take the larger sized radiator CLC water coolers to begin to pass the performance levels of the high quality air coolers.
Reviews and testing comparisons will give you some idea of where the temperature performance of each type cooler crosses paths, but pay attention to whether the ambient temperature was controlled in the reviews, and how does that tested ambient compare to your ambient.
Question 6; I want to do some serious overclocking and I'm considering going to a custom water cooling setup, what do I need to know?
Overclocking performance water cooling requires enough radiator cooling area to bring your water temperatures as close to ambient room temperature as possible, which means you will not have the radiator cooling area you need inside a mid tower case, and even the majority of the full tower cases.
So many of you want the best overclocking water cooling performance you can possibly get, but want it all crammed inside some teeny tiny case, well I am sorry but that's just not going to get the job done.
Many that are after serious overclocking cooling performance headroom mount radiators on the side, top, rear, or even completely independent as a stand alone radiator, or multiple radiators mounted in a RadBox. Some have built their own RadBoxes, some have just modified a separate case dedicated to the radiators, pumps, and cooling fans and usually a fan controller as well.
It is all about having enough radiator cooling field to do the job!
So if you really want overclocking water cooling performance you start with finding a case that can fit your radiator mounting needs, some cases that are designed from scratch just for water cooling are the MountainMods and Caselabs lines of cases.
If your goal is high performance water cooling for the maximum overclocks you can safely run don't cut short when it comes to the radiator cooling field area, or prepare yourself for some gut punching serious disappointment after a major monetary investment that falls way short of your hoped goals.
If you are only considering water cooling for looks, or just to be water cooling because you think it's a neat cooling solution, and could care less about overclocking head room, then pretty much any case will do, and any loop configuration will do, because overclocking heat is not an issue to you.
Question 7; I want to overclock my CPU and GPU much further than my present cooling allows, can I do it all in one loop?
Of course you can as long as you're complying with Question 6 and having enough radiator cooling field to handle the heat load, can it be done with a single or maybe two 240 radiators, NO!
This is the most common mistake made today and most make this mistake because of old information from old stickies and reviews that do not fully address the heat load of the CPUs and high end GPUs presently on the market today.
If you are overclocking your CPU and are expecting high overclock results approaching 5ghz and also running multiple GPUs, you'll get better results and higher CPU stable overclocks, by running 2 separate loops and keeping the GPUs and CPU overclocked heat, from combining the CPU and GPU deltaT into the same loop. (Note: DeltaT is explained very well by Conumdrum in the 2nd link at the bottom of the page.)
However those of us even intending on pushing your CPU overclock to 5ghz are a minority here at Toms Hardware, so the traditional CPU overclock target seems to be around 4.5ghz, and may well work with a single loop problem free.
Looped together the GPUs will affect your CPUs overclock top end, it won't be as bad on the GPU because water cooling is much better on the GPU than air cooling is, and the GPU runs much cooler water cooled.
Adding the GPUs heat even idling to the CPU, will add overclock limiting heat to the CPU, much less when the GPU and CPU are under a heavy gaming load, and you then reach game crashing temperatures.
It seriously depends on just how far you intend pushing that CPU overclock!
Question 8; Since I'm water cooling do I still need case fans running?
Absolutely Yes! Case airflow is still a critical need to cool memory, and other motherboard connected components still relying on air to cool them!
Your water cooling is still air cooled with fans mounted on your radiators and if fresh air flow is not supplied to them, no matter how many fans you have on the radiators, the cooling performance is seriously compromised, you have to have good case air flow!
When the stock CPU air cooler is removed from the socket and replaced with a CPU water block or a CLC water pump block, you just removed the stock air cooling around the CPU socket that was cooling the motherboards voltage regulators!
The stock air cooler was not designed to only cool the CPU, it was designed to additionally cool the surrounding heat producing elements of the entire socket area.
That is the reason the VRs are clustered around the socket, so the stock air cooler also cools them as well as the CPU itself.
So unless you have a motherboard with water cooled VR heat sink blocks, that airflow that was cooling those VRs has got to be replaced, or you will seriously shorten the life of your motherboard.
So just because you're water cooling does not mean you no longer need case fans, but you need to be extremely aware of what still needs air flow to remain cool on that motherboard.
You need to supply any air you completely remove with some type of dedicated air cooling, even if it takes an additional added fan mounting bracket to add a dedicated fan to replace that cooling or suffer the consequences of the neglect.
The best overall cooling results is accomplished by fresh ambient air getting to the elements that need cooling, and if a radiator is pulling preheated air through it, it's cooling capabilities are compromised.
Question 9; Will adding additional fans to my radiator increase it's cooling performance?
It depends on whether the radiator in question is a low FPI (Fins Per Inch) or high FPI radiator.
Low FPI radiators are generally 8 FPI or lower and are specifically designed to use low fan speed, low cfm, which equals low noise, cooling fans.
Adding additional fans to those radiators don't add cooling performance, as most are fully factory tested especially in a kit or CLC, and are already either pre-fitted, or supplied in the kit, with the best performing cooling fan or fans, out of the factory door.
High FPI radiators around at least a 12 count will benefit from adding fans of higher speed, higher cfm, which equals higher noise levels, as the more airflow through the fins they get, the better they cool.
The higher FPI performance radiators require another term which is higher static pressure, static pressure is the fans ability to sustain a constant airflow forced through the cooling fins, the tighter the fins the higher the static pressure needs to be.
The higher the fin count the higher performing fans are needed to force the air through the tighter fin gap, you have to supply the needs or requirements of the radiator in question, or you will not get it's maximum cooling capability.
High FPI radiators are for the more serious overclockers after the lowest Delta they can achieve, Delta meaning the sustained system operating water temperature above ambient room temperature.
The more serious overclockers are also not concerned with higher levels of cooling fan noise, as higher cfm and higher static capable fans are also higher noise rated.
Fan designs have seriously improved as of late, with blade pitch and angle being able to increase static pressure at lower fan speed, with not too much of noise increase, but whether they do the best job or not, well that's up to you to discover.
When you compromise your cooling, you compromise your cooling performance!
I hope this answers at least some of your questions, these are things I have already learned the hard way, at my own monetary expense, from air and water cooling!
I am in hopes that these questions and answers will keep some of you from making the same mistakes, and kicking yourself for wasting the money the mistakes cost you, because the end results were seriously disappointing!
Any of you that may be considering water cooling, I suggest you start your adventure reading and studying these resources:
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/277130-29-read-first-watercooling-sticky
http://www.overclockers.com/guide-deltat-water-cooling/
http://www.overclock.net/t/1415725/a-guide-to-water-cooling-multiple-gpus
http://www.swiftech.com/Resources/White_Papers/Dual%20Loop%20versus%20Single.pdf
http://www.overclockers.com/beginners-guide-water-cooling/
http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/t355358.html
Some of you that are considering overclocking your CPUs whether by air or water, or even past that, this Overclocking study contains some very valuable information, not only backing some of what I've tried to share with you in this thread, but can seriously open your eyes to what's actually possible or not, with the cooling you decide to use.
http://lab501.net/intel-core-i7-4790k-intel-pentium-g3258-overclocking-study/
Ryan
More about : air cooling water cooling things
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Reply to 4Ryan6
KOTE
June 27, 2014 3:33:09 AM
Now that is one of the most honest watercooling pages I have read in a while good job.
I would be one of the people that went to the rad box idea for a large radiator feild, with 3 X 360mm rads one might think that it is over kill, but if I added one more 360mm rad, I would see my load temps drop a couple of degrees in C.
I would be one of the people that went to the rad box idea for a large radiator feild, with 3 X 360mm rads one might think that it is over kill, but if I added one more 360mm rad, I would see my load temps drop a couple of degrees in C.
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Reply to toolmaker_03
Related resources
- Water cooling vs air cooling? - Forum
- What's better for CPU cooling, air vs water cooling? - Forum
- What is your oppinion on water cooling vs. air cooling? - Forum
- Air cooling vs. Water cooling for my Am3+ - Forum
- "Water" vs. "Liquid" vs. "Air" cooling - Forum
toolmaker_03 said:
Now that is one of the most honest watercooling pages I have read in a while good job.I would be one of the people that went to the rad box idea for a large radiator feild, with 3 X 360mm rads one might think that it is over kill, but if I added one more 360mm rad, I would see my load temps drop a couple of degrees in C.
When I wrote that part I thought of your setup and Motos!
Got any good points to add?
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Reply to 4Ryan6
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Reply to toolmaker_03
toolmaker_03 said:
No, I consider this my hobby so i stopped careing about the cost years ago. With that said, this type of cooling can nickle and dime ones pocket book to death.In my openion though it is worth every penny, and after 18 years of building up my system, I would never go back to standard air cooling.
I totally agree!
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Reply to 4Ryan6
Memhorder
July 16, 2014 2:17:23 PM
Memhorder said:
Thanks for the detailed explanation. Good Work! One question. What is the FPI on H100i Rads? I'm thinking DeltasI tried to find some FPI information from Corsair on another model and got no joy, they don't seem to list the FPI. I guess since they're selling already balanced systems including that information is not important, it's not like they sell radiators only. The best way to know for sure is to measure it yourself and see.
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Reply to 4Ryan6
Memhorder
July 18, 2014 3:59:16 AM
4Ryan6 said:
Memhorder said:
Thanks for the detailed explanation. Good Work! One question. What is the FPI on H100i Rads? I'm thinking DeltasI tried to find some FPI information from Corsair on another model and got no joy, they don't seem to list the FPI. I guess since they're selling already balanced systems including that information is not important, it's not like they sell radiators only. The best way to know for sure is to measure it yourself and see.
Hi there. Thanks for the reply. I actually found the density of the fins on a detailed review.
http://www.vortez.net/articles_pages/corsair_hydro_seri...
The rad is very dense putting it at 16.93 FPI. See the thing is. I'm wanting to do a little project. Put some nasty Delta fans on it like these.
http://www.coolingsurplus.com/index.php?option=com_cont...
except they are the PWM version exact model and specs. So they can be toned down for a moment of silence
Performance wise they blow all the "Novelty" fans out of the water. 151.85 CFM vs Corsairs 62.74 CFM and almost 5x the static pressure. I'm thinking the high density rad could benefit from HSP. It's gonna cost for the 2 fans almost what I payed for the entire closed loop XD
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Reply to Memhorder
Memhorder said:
4Ryan6 said:
Memhorder said:
Thanks for the detailed explanation. Good Work! One question. What is the FPI on H100i Rads? I'm thinking DeltasI tried to find some FPI information from Corsair on another model and got no joy, they don't seem to list the FPI. I guess since they're selling already balanced systems including that information is not important, it's not like they sell radiators only. The best way to know for sure is to measure it yourself and see.
Hi there. Thanks for the reply. I actually found the density of the fins on a detailed review.
http://www.vortez.net/articles_pages/corsair_hydro_seri...
The rad is very dense putting it at 16.93 FPI. See the thing is. I'm wanting to do a little project. Put some nasty Delta fans on it like these.
http://www.coolingsurplus.com/index.php?option=com_cont...
except they are the PWM version exact model and specs. So they can be toned down for a moment of silence
Performance wise they blow all the "Novelty" fans out of the water. 151.85 CFM vs Corsairs 62.74 CFM and almost 5x the static pressure. I'm thinking the high density rad could benefit from HSP. It's gonna cost for the 2 fans almost what I payed for the entire closed loop XD
Oh the radiator will definitely benefit from those bad boys, each one pulls 1.05A load so make sure where you get their power can handle the amperage load, I would definitely use a dedicated fan controller and stay away from the motherboard power headers.
Is this just a test experiment or are you going to tolerate 53dba, that fan sounds like an F-16 sitting on the runway and 2 will be like an F/A-18 sitting on the runway waiting for take off orders, In your room! (A little exaggeration!)
Those are high quality server cooling fans and there is a good reason most server setups are in their own dedicated closed room or closet, just saying?
If you go forward with this I am very interested with your before and after results so please share what you discover?
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Reply to 4Ryan6
Memhorder
July 18, 2014 5:34:55 AM
4Ryan6 said:
Memhorder said:
4Ryan6 said:
Memhorder said:
Thanks for the detailed explanation. Good Work! One question. What is the FPI on H100i Rads? I'm thinking DeltasI tried to find some FPI information from Corsair on another model and got no joy, they don't seem to list the FPI. I guess since they're selling already balanced systems including that information is not important, it's not like they sell radiators only. The best way to know for sure is to measure it yourself and see.
Hi there. Thanks for the reply. I actually found the density of the fins on a detailed review.
http://www.vortez.net/articles_pages/corsair_hydro_seri...
The rad is very dense putting it at 16.93 FPI. See the thing is. I'm wanting to do a little project. Put some nasty Delta fans on it like these.
http://www.coolingsurplus.com/index.php?option=com_cont...
except they are the PWM version exact model and specs. So they can be toned down for a moment of silence
Performance wise they blow all the "Novelty" fans out of the water. 151.85 CFM vs Corsairs 62.74 CFM and almost 5x the static pressure. I'm thinking the high density rad could benefit from HSP. It's gonna cost for the 2 fans almost what I payed for the entire closed loop XD
Oh the radiator will definitely benefit from those bad boys, each one pulls 1.05A load so make sure where you get their power can handle the amperage load, I would definitely use a dedicated fan controller and stay away from the motherboard power headers.
Is this just a test experiment or are you going to tolerate 53dba, that fan sounds like an F-16 sitting on the runway and 2 will be like an F/A-18 sitting on the runway waiting for take off orders, In your room! (A little exaggeration!)
Those are high quality server cooling fans and there is a good reason most server setups are in their own dedicated closed room or closet, just saying?
If you go forward with this I am very interested with your before and after results so please share what you discover?
Yes I was worried that those things would overload the controller on the H100i so I inquired about it. Corsair said that they can handle 4 amps @ 2 amps per channel. I was thinking to have just the two fans. One per channel plugged into controller. Nothing else. I asked Corsair if they just had single plug wires but all they got is Y splitter. Oh well. The rest of the less demanding ones would be controlled by motherboard.
I will post temps if you want. I'll stress CPU with OCCT. Posting temps with stock SP 120's full bore. Then Post temps with the Delta's running at same RPM of 2550 which are MAX for SP 120. Then it will be the Delta's full speed 3700. Should be interesting and fun
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Reply to Memhorder
Sounds interesting!
It is nice to share data with another crazy person!
Next thing you know you'll be running chilled water cooling!
It is nice to share data with another crazy person!
Next thing you know you'll be running chilled water cooling!
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Reply to 4Ryan6
Vellinious
July 22, 2014 4:28:18 PM
"Of course you can as long as you're complying with Question 6 and having enough radiator cooling field to handle the heat load, can it be done with a single or maybe two 240 radiators, NO!"
Just out of curiosity, how much overclock are we talking here? Because, I run a 240 and a 360 and have plenty of cooling for a 3770k that runs at 4.5 @ 1.255v, and 2x EVGA GTX 670FTW with 115 MHz offset on the GPU and 550 offset on the memory all in the same loop. Yeah, a 240 and a 360 is not 2x240's, but.....they're just the RS series radiators from XSPC. Not like they're super high performance or anything. Ambient temps around 26c, with idle temps on the CPU and GPU around 30c...load temps on the CPU on OCCT after 3 hours have a high temp of 69c, and the cards never see 50c, regardless of what benchmark I use to push them.
I dunno, man...that's some pretty decent overclocks on a single loop without a whole lot of radiator. /shrug
Just out of curiosity, how much overclock are we talking here? Because, I run a 240 and a 360 and have plenty of cooling for a 3770k that runs at 4.5 @ 1.255v, and 2x EVGA GTX 670FTW with 115 MHz offset on the GPU and 550 offset on the memory all in the same loop. Yeah, a 240 and a 360 is not 2x240's, but.....they're just the RS series radiators from XSPC. Not like they're super high performance or anything. Ambient temps around 26c, with idle temps on the CPU and GPU around 30c...load temps on the CPU on OCCT after 3 hours have a high temp of 69c, and the cards never see 50c, regardless of what benchmark I use to push them.
I dunno, man...that's some pretty decent overclocks on a single loop without a whole lot of radiator. /shrug
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Reply to Vellinious
scorza
July 22, 2014 6:11:05 PM
Memhorder
July 22, 2014 10:27:52 PM
Memhorder said:
Ryan? What are your thought's on Fan shrouds? Are they even worth using? I was thinking of making a shroud for the Delta's that span the length of the rad. Do you thinking the single shroud will cause the fans to fight each other?Shrouds are great, they move the fan radiator motor housing out from the radiator allowing full airflow across the radiator cooling fins, I used to run a shroud on one side of the radiator with the fans mounted pulling air through the radiator. There is almost zero airflow under the fan motor housing which creates a dead air space, a shroud completely removes the fan motors dead air space and allows that space to be cooled.
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Reply to 4Ryan6
Vellinious said:
"Of course you can as long as you're complying with Question 6 and having enough radiator cooling field to handle the heat load, can it be done with a single or maybe two 240 radiators, NO!"Just out of curiosity, how much overclock are we talking here? Because, I run a 240 and a 360 and have plenty of cooling for a 3770k that runs at 4.5 @ 1.255v, and 2x EVGA GTX 670FTW with 115 MHz offset on the GPU and 550 offset on the memory all in the same loop. Yeah, a 240 and a 360 is not 2x240's, but.....they're just the RS series radiators from XSPC. Not like they're super high performance or anything. Ambient temps around 26c, with idle temps on the CPU and GPU around 30c...load temps on the CPU on OCCT after 3 hours have a high temp of 69c, and the cards never see 50c, regardless of what benchmark I use to push them.
I dunno, man...that's some pretty decent overclocks on a single loop without a whole lot of radiator. /shrug
When I referenced serious overclocking I was not referring to 4.5ghz, that can usually be done with air cooling, but more like a 24/7 100% stable 5ghz check my CPU-Z. I run 2 loops and my single GPU worst load ever was 35c, but it is cooled by an Watercool MO-RA3 radiator, the previous GPU setup the MO-RA3 was cooling was 2 overclocked 580GTX in SLI and their combined load never exceeded 43c. I've run a 5ghz overclock on my 3770K ever since I got my hands on it, and it has not been delidded.
You have a great performing setup, and it is accomplishing what you want it to do, that's all that really matters!
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Reply to 4Ryan6
Vellinious
July 23, 2014 5:08:22 AM
4Ryan6 said:
Vellinious said:
"Of course you can as long as you're complying with Question 6 and having enough radiator cooling field to handle the heat load, can it be done with a single or maybe two 240 radiators, NO!"Just out of curiosity, how much overclock are we talking here? Because, I run a 240 and a 360 and have plenty of cooling for a 3770k that runs at 4.5 @ 1.255v, and 2x EVGA GTX 670FTW with 115 MHz offset on the GPU and 550 offset on the memory all in the same loop. Yeah, a 240 and a 360 is not 2x240's, but.....they're just the RS series radiators from XSPC. Not like they're super high performance or anything. Ambient temps around 26c, with idle temps on the CPU and GPU around 30c...load temps on the CPU on OCCT after 3 hours have a high temp of 69c, and the cards never see 50c, regardless of what benchmark I use to push them.
I dunno, man...that's some pretty decent overclocks on a single loop without a whole lot of radiator. /shrug
When I referenced serious overclocking I was not referring to 4.5ghz, that can usually be done with air cooling, but more like a 24/7 100% stable 5ghz check my CPU-Z. I run 2 loops and my single GPU worst load ever was 35c, but it is cooled by an Watercool MO-RA3 radiator, the previous GPU setup the MO-RA3 was cooling was 2 overclocked 580GTX in SLI and their combined load never exceeded 43c. I've run a 5ghz overclock on my 3770K ever since I got my hands on it, and it has not been delidded.
You have a great performing setup, and it is accomplishing what you want it to do, that's all that really matters!
I can only run mine at 4.9 before it starts to get too hot for my liking. I only do so for benching. That said....4.5 stable with an Ivy on air would be pretty toasty, unless they have a lot better chip than I do. Which, wouldn't be that hard...I lost the lotto.
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Reply to Vellinious
Vellinious said:
I can only run mine at 4.9 before it starts to get too hot for my liking. I only do so for benching. That said....4.5 stable with an Ivy on air would be pretty toasty, unless they have a lot better chip than I do. Which, wouldn't be that hard...I lost the lotto.The quality of the CPU does have the most to do with it, but there were other factors discovered that directly affect the Ivy Bridge CPUs overclock ability and that was simply the gap between the bottom side of the IHS and the CPU die itself, which was caused by the adhesive the IHS was secured with.
Note: I am in no way promoting delidding, but many have successfully done it.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=34053183&postcount=566
These tests were about discovering the gap the adhesive automatically seems to set, and it's very interesting.
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Reply to 4Ryan6
Vellinious
July 23, 2014 5:29:41 AM
4Ryan6 said:
Vellinious said:
I can only run mine at 4.9 before it starts to get too hot for my liking. I only do so for benching. That said....4.5 stable with an Ivy on air would be pretty toasty, unless they have a lot better chip than I do. Which, wouldn't be that hard...I lost the lotto.The quality of the CPU does have the most to do with it, but there were other factors discovered that directly affect the Ivy Bridge CPUs overclock ability and that was simply the gap between the bottom side of the IHS and the CPU die itself, which was caused by the adhesive the IHS was secured with.
Note: I am in no way promoting delidding, but many have successfully done it.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=34053183&postcount=566
These tests were about discovering the gap the adhesive automatically seems to set, and it's very interesting.
I know all about delidding...have considered doing it myself. Probably with the hammer and vice method. I've been at this a while...maybe not as long as someone who is "retired", but I've been building my own systems for as long as people have been building their own systems, and overclocking for the better part of 10 years. I'm certainly not clueless....but from what I'm seeing on this forum, there are a LOT here that are.
Just sayin, I've run into some real winners here...like on one post I responded to last night, from a guy with a fancy tag on his name, that was telling some poor guy asking about first time water cooling, that you could cool below ambient with a Swifttech watercooling kit. 20F below ambient. That's stupid on a level that I can't comprehend. Not saying that's the case here at all, just saying, those little tags don't carry much weight..as Tom's seems to throw them around pretty generously.
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Reply to Vellinious
Vellinious said:
I know all about delidding...have considered doing it myself. Probably with the hammer and vice method. I've been at this a while...maybe not as long as someone who is "retired", but I've been building my own systems for as long as people have been building their own systems, and overclocking for the better part of 10 years. I'm certainly not clueless....but from what I'm seeing on this forum, there are a LOT here that are.
Just sayin, I've run into some real winners here...like on one post I responded to last night, from a guy with a fancy tag on his name, that was telling some poor guy asking about first time water cooling, that you could cool below ambient with a Swifttech watercooling kit. 20F below ambient. That's stupid on a level that I can't comprehend. Not saying that's the case here at all, just saying, those little tags don't carry much weight..as Tom's seems to throw them around pretty generously.
Well 5 best answers equals an expert here at Toms now, and we have an abundance of experts now, that 2 weeks ago may have know absolutely nothing, but today they're experts!
Personally I never thought that was a good idea, but I no longer have anything to do with that.
Once again I was just sharing some information not promoting anything.
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Reply to 4Ryan6
Vellinious said:
"Of course you can as long as you're complying with Question 6 and having enough radiator cooling field to handle the heat load, can it be done with a single or maybe two 240 radiators, NO!"I may have to amend my statement when someone uses two of these 240s in a cooling setup.
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59_457_667_1075&products_id=34507
But they're so thick, 80mm, accommodating them and the cooling fans in a case will be difficult.
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Reply to 4Ryan6
Vellinious
July 23, 2014 6:03:03 AM
Those are huge radiators....you'd have to have a case specifically built for them. Like the Mountain Mods and CaseLabs cases. Maybe even the 900D? I could fit ONE of those wide rads in my FD Define XL, in the front, but there's no way I'd get two in there. My waterbox is another story though. = P
I just couldn't believe I saw a guy with an "expert" tag telling some noob, that you could cool lower than ambient. lol I was almost lost for words.
I just couldn't believe I saw a guy with an "expert" tag telling some noob, that you could cool lower than ambient. lol I was almost lost for words.
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Reply to Vellinious
I think this is worthy of a sticky, good work here Ryan. So tired of people coming in with the assumption that liquid-cooling (CLC's, not custom) by magic is inherently better than air. Might want to mention that front and centre in the OP, because unfortunately most people will skim this if they read it at all.
4Ryan6, King of Overclocking stickies...
Its getting awful cluttered up there.
4Ryan6, King of Overclocking stickies...
Its getting awful cluttered up there.
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Reply to manofchalk
BluffableYew
July 23, 2014 8:32:56 AM
DHFF
July 23, 2014 11:17:04 AM
Thanks for this post. I have just recently taken an interest in Liquid cooling and I am gathering as much info as I can. Its good to know where the limitations are. I was kicking around the idea of getting AMD's new 220W chipzilla and I am trying to decide what would be best for that. So thank you again for this.
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Reply to DHFF
Kozzy72
July 24, 2014 4:59:05 PM
Thank You Ryan.
I'm getting ready to buy for a new build; my last build was in 2005. I've read so many articles on Air vs Water and I finally made my choice after reading what you wrote. Thanks for putting in so much effort, the comprehensive info, and the 'what-ifs'. As I read it, you were answering questions I was thinking at the same time.
Things have gotten crazy about cooling since my last build and I was very happy to hear what you had to say about the comparisons. Your insight and data put it all in one place and I appreciate that.
Thanks again,
Matt
I'm getting ready to buy for a new build; my last build was in 2005. I've read so many articles on Air vs Water and I finally made my choice after reading what you wrote. Thanks for putting in so much effort, the comprehensive info, and the 'what-ifs'. As I read it, you were answering questions I was thinking at the same time.
Things have gotten crazy about cooling since my last build and I was very happy to hear what you had to say about the comparisons. Your insight and data put it all in one place and I appreciate that.
Thanks again,
Matt
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Reply to Kozzy72
DHFF
July 24, 2014 5:26:10 PM
So I have decided to get my feet wet and try something small on for size just to see how I feel about it before getting a more complex system. I am trying to decide between these two, the first is from Phobya and the second is from AlphaCool. I have heard of both of them, who makes the better system?
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/22863/ex-wat-293/Phob...
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/17358/ex-wat-225/Alph...
oh there is also this kit from XSPC, this brand I have not heard much.
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/21235/ex-wat-270/XSPC...
I noticed that AlphaCool was the only one that bragged about a solid copper Rad. are the other two aluminum?
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/22863/ex-wat-293/Phob...
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/17358/ex-wat-225/Alph...
oh there is also this kit from XSPC, this brand I have not heard much.
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/21235/ex-wat-270/XSPC...
I noticed that AlphaCool was the only one that bragged about a solid copper Rad. are the other two aluminum?
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Reply to DHFF
DHFF said:
So I have decided to get my feet wet and try something small on for size just to see how I feel about it before getting a more complex system. I am trying to decide between these two, the first is from Phobya and the second is from AlphaCool. I have heard of both of them, who makes the better system?http://www.frozencpu.com/products/22863/ex-wat-293/Phob...
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/17358/ex-wat-225/Alph...
oh there is also this kit from XSPC, this brand I have not heard much.
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/21235/ex-wat-270/XSPC...
I noticed that AlphaCool was the only one that bragged about a solid copper Rad. are the other two aluminum?
If you're considering kits with only a 120mm radiator you may as well just go with a sealed CLC?
Avoid the XSPC kit you linked that is the pump sealed inside the reservoir model!
If you go XSPC and are after the dual bay reservoir go for the rear mounted D5 pump model.
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Reply to 4Ryan6
DHFF
July 25, 2014 3:40:20 AM
Well my primary interest in this case is just for the experience of building one. I have no intention of OCing this system and was looking for a less expensive yet quality choice. Additionally my long term though was that if I really enjoyed building it, I could buy a 240 ra down the line an add it to the loop.
So all three of these brands an good choices? (assuming I dont go with model with the pump sealed in the res
So all three of these brands an good choices? (assuming I dont go with model with the pump sealed in the res
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Reply to DHFF
This is my suggestion for you, a really good 240 radiator, cylinder reservoir with a D5 variable speed pump, and a XSPC Raystorm CPU water block, an excellent performer, everything you need except the coolant is in that kit.
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59_202_972&products_id=40348
Same kit same price at FrozenCPU if you prefer to shop there.
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/23377/ex-wat-298/XSPC_Raystorm_RX240_V3_Extreme_Universal_CPU_Water_Cooling_Kit_w_D5_Photon_and_Free_Dead-Water.html
This would be a good quality base for you to start out with which will give you some excellent CPU longevity temperatures.
The cooler you keep it, the longer it lasts, even if you're not overclocking.
Best to you with whatever you choose! Ryan
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59_202_972&products_id=40348
Same kit same price at FrozenCPU if you prefer to shop there.
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/23377/ex-wat-298/XSPC_Raystorm_RX240_V3_Extreme_Universal_CPU_Water_Cooling_Kit_w_D5_Photon_and_Free_Dead-Water.html
This would be a good quality base for you to start out with which will give you some excellent CPU longevity temperatures.
The cooler you keep it, the longer it lasts, even if you're not overclocking.
Best to you with whatever you choose! Ryan
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Reply to 4Ryan6
DHFF
July 25, 2014 4:29:45 AM
Easha
July 28, 2014 6:49:56 AM
Mr. Ryan, that was a great help! I was searching all over the web for "H110 vs. EKWB" etc and was getting the hell out of it.
One question though. You said joining both the CPU and GPU block in a loop will degrade performance and make me cry for my pocket. Well, how about using two 240mm rads, one for the CPU and the other for the GPU with the same pump? I don't have the picture right now, just can illustrate you how. Oh, I included the motherboard's VRM cooling kits.
The liquid goes to the CPU block from the pump directly, through it and then to the VRM cooling kit (CrossChill) and again through it to one of the 240mm rad (at the top). Then it goes to the GPU block after being cooled, directly, through its the inlet.
Next, the GPU cools and then the liquid goes to the second 240mm rad (at the front), being cooled, it directly goes to the pump, thus cycling the liquid through the blocks. Here, only one inlet of the pump is used.
What do you think of this one? Is it good? And the rads are RX240, pump: D5 Vario (either of photon or bayres).
One question though. You said joining both the CPU and GPU block in a loop will degrade performance and make me cry for my pocket. Well, how about using two 240mm rads, one for the CPU and the other for the GPU with the same pump? I don't have the picture right now, just can illustrate you how. Oh, I included the motherboard's VRM cooling kits.
The liquid goes to the CPU block from the pump directly, through it and then to the VRM cooling kit (CrossChill) and again through it to one of the 240mm rad (at the top). Then it goes to the GPU block after being cooled, directly, through its the inlet.
Next, the GPU cools and then the liquid goes to the second 240mm rad (at the front), being cooled, it directly goes to the pump, thus cycling the liquid through the blocks. Here, only one inlet of the pump is used.
What do you think of this one? Is it good? And the rads are RX240, pump: D5 Vario (either of photon or bayres).
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Reply to Easha
Easha said:
Mr. Ryan, that was a great help! I was searching all over the web for "H110 vs. EKWB" etc and was getting the hell out of it.One question though. You said joining both the CPU and GPU block in a loop will degrade performance and make me cry for my pocket. Well, how about using two 240mm rads, one for the CPU and the other for the GPU with the same pump? I don't have the picture right now, just can illustrate you how. Oh, I included the motherboard's VRM cooling kits.
The liquid goes to the CPU block from the pump directly, through it and then to the VRM cooling kit (CrossChill) and again through it to one of the 240mm rad (at the top). Then it goes to the GPU block after being cooled, directly, through its the inlet.
Next, the GPU cools and then the liquid goes to the second 240mm rad (at the front), being cooled, it directly goes to the pump, thus cycling the liquid through the blocks. Here, only one inlet of the pump is used.
What do you think of this one? Is it good? And the rads are RX240, pump: D5 Vario (either of photon or bayres).
That is a single loop you are describing , it takes 2 pumps and 2 reservoirs, one pump and reservoir for each loop of a two independent loop setup.
One loop handles the CPUs heat, the other loop handles the GPUs heat.
Easha said:
You said joining both the CPU and GPU block in a loop will degrade performanceIt will degrade CPU overclocking performance, especially if high CPU overclocking is your goal, if you do not intend to overclock, then the setup you described will be just fine.
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Reply to 4Ryan6
Vellinious
July 29, 2014 11:02:21 AM
Vellinios I would not say that at all I have tried every possible configuration possible one loop, tow loops, even 3 loops, serial loops, and parallel. today I have a single loop with a 3 way parallel setup on the radiators and the hardware this type of configuration seems to work best for the hardware I have.
https://imageshack.com/i/0fleehj
https://imageshack.com/i/j6j1srj
https://imageshack.com/i/mvb6v2j
https://imageshack.com/i/mhznt3j
so let me know what has worked best for you?
https://imageshack.com/i/0fleehj
https://imageshack.com/i/j6j1srj
https://imageshack.com/i/mvb6v2j
https://imageshack.com/i/mhznt3j
so let me know what has worked best for you?
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Reply to toolmaker_03
Vellinious said:
For MOST people, a single loop is plenty...depending on how much radiator they use, and the flow routing. It's all subjective.toolmaker_03 said:
Vellinios I would not say that at all I have tried every possible configuration possible one loop, tow loops, even 3 loops, serial loops, and parallel. today I have a single loop with a 3 way parallel setup on the radiators and the hardware this type of configuration seems to work best for the hardware I have.https://imageshack.com/i/0fleehj
https://imageshack.com/i/j6j1srj
https://imageshack.com/i/mvb6v2j
https://imageshack.com/i/mhznt3j
so let me know what has worked best for you?
A single loop perfect example of having enough radiator cooling field to do the job!
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Reply to 4Ryan6
Vellinious
July 31, 2014 7:04:49 AM
toolmaker_03 said:
Vellinios I would not say that at all I have tried every possible configuration possible one loop, tow loops, even 3 loops, serial loops, and parallel. today I have a single loop with a 3 way parallel setup on the radiators and the hardware this type of configuration seems to work best for the hardware I have.https://imageshack.com/i/0fleehj
https://imageshack.com/i/j6j1srj
https://imageshack.com/i/mvb6v2j
https://imageshack.com/i/mhznt3j
so let me know what has worked best for you?
As long as you make sure you have enough radiator in a single loop, there's never a reason to run dual loops. I don't know anyone that runs dual loops anymore. You have enough radiator there to cool a small car engine, so yeah...I'd say you're good. lol
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Reply to Vellinious
yes I was looking at your setup and was thinking that it looks nice, so does it run cool enough for you?
I need to add another 240mm radiator to my dads build to get it cool enough for me, this is what it looks like now.
https://imageshack.com/i/0vfi2nJ
https://imageshack.com/i/f7ervgj
https://imageshack.com/i/04aix7j
I will be installing the new radiator at the front of the case on the inside.
I need to add another 240mm radiator to my dads build to get it cool enough for me, this is what it looks like now.
https://imageshack.com/i/0vfi2nJ
https://imageshack.com/i/f7ervgj
https://imageshack.com/i/04aix7j
I will be installing the new radiator at the front of the case on the inside.
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Reply to toolmaker_03
Vellinious said:
As long as you make sure you have enough radiator in a single loop, there's never a reason to run dual loops. I don't know anyone that runs dual loops anymore. I run dual loops, and it depends on just how far you overclock your CPU!
If you can crank your 3770K up to 5ghz 24/7 100% stable I might just agree with you?
Seeing as how you are already at 1.328v to run 4.6ghz I seriously doubt you'll pull it off.
When I say 100% stable I'm not just talking a CPU-Z validation, lets see a completed IBT or equivalent stress test completions, and some completed benchmarks like Firestrike etc. adding the additional GPU load or something like that?
Here's mine:


Your Turn?
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Reply to 4Ryan6
Vellinious
July 31, 2014 8:54:47 AM
toolmaker_03 said:
yes I was looking at your setup and was thinking that it looks nice, so does it run cool enough for you?I need to add another 240mm radiator to my dads build to get it cool enough for me, this is what it looks like now.
https://imageshack.com/i/0vfi2nJ
https://imageshack.com/i/f7ervgj
https://imageshack.com/i/04aix7j
I will be installing the new radiator at the front of the case on the inside.
4Ryan6 said:
Vellinious said:
As long as you make sure you have enough radiator in a single loop, there's never a reason to run dual loops. I don't know anyone that runs dual loops anymore. I run dual loops, and it depends on just how far you overclock your CPU!
If you can crank your 3770K up to 5ghz 24/7 100% stable I might just agree with you?
Seeing as how you are already at 1.328v to run 4.6ghz I seriously doubt you'll pull it off.
When I say 100% stable I'm not just talking a CPU-Z validation, lets see a completed IBT or equivalent stress test completions, and some completed benchmarks like Firestrike etc. adding the additional GPU load or something like that?
Here's mine:


Your Turn?
My processor won't overclock to 5ghz. The most I can get out of it is 4.8, but it's not temps that are stopping me from going higher. It's voltage..... Has nothing to do with cooling. That has to do with where my CPU fell in the lottery. You got a good chip. Mine wasn't so good. You don't need dual loops with enough radiator. That's all I'm saying. 15 years ago a lot of people ran dual loops. Now? It's just e-peen and looks....that's it.
Your turn? Really? Grow up....
And as a side note: I'd NEVER let my system's peak temps go that high. I don't let my CPU temp run higher than 80c. That's where I shut it down.
Firestrike. Can't break 12k.
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Reply to Vellinious
Vellinious said:
My processor won't overclock to 5ghz. The most I can get out of it is 4.8, but it's not temps that are stopping me from going higher. It's voltage..... Has nothing to do with cooling. That has to do with where my CPU fell in the lottery. You got a good chip. Mine wasn't so good. You don't need dual loops with enough radiator. That's all I'm saying. 15 years ago a lot of people ran dual loops. Now? It's just e-peen and looks....that's it.How many times have I heard those same old excuses?
Have you even tried a dual loop to see if it gave you a CPU overclock advantage?
Taking the GPU heat completely away from the CPU overclock?
Surely for you to make the single loop statement, you've at least tried a dual loop configuration yourself and concluded it did no good at overclocking your CPU, Right?
If you haven't tried it, then you do not actually know, do you.
My single GPU Firestrike results doesn't have a thing to do with the CPU overclock we're discussing, Nice try!
That is a nice SLI score though.
For the record; my 3770K has been running 5ghz in a few days coming up on a year, and it has not been delidded.
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Reply to 4Ryan6
Vellinious
July 31, 2014 9:36:15 AM
I had a dual loop on a system about 8 years ago on an AMD system. It ran HOT. But, watercooling back then wasn't what it is today. It's all about having enough radiator to cool the heat generated in that system. Doesn't matter how many loops you have...you can only cool the water so much. One loop, two loops, three loops..doesn't matter. Not one little bit.
I REALLY want to break 12k, but....it'd take modding the BIOS on those 670s, and I'm just not keen on that.
I REALLY want to break 12k, but....it'd take modding the BIOS on those 670s, and I'm just not keen on that.
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Reply to Vellinious
Vellinious said:
I had a dual loop on a system about 8 years ago on an AMD system. It ran HOT. But, watercooling back then wasn't what it is today. It's all about having enough radiator to cool the heat generated in that system. Doesn't matter how many loops you have...you can only cool the water so much. One loop, two loops, three loops..doesn't matter. Not one little bit.I absolutely do not agree with your 8 year old dual loop assumption, especially running an 8 year old AMD for your example, vs the combined heat of the GPU and overclocked Intel CPUs of today.
If you cannot even logically see adding the heat from dual water cooled GPUs to your overclocked CPU limits the overclock headroom of the CPU, then until you discover it for yourself you'll still believe what you do.
This is the point where we agree to disagree, as I have invested enough time with this.
I think I'll just go outside and talk to the birds in the birdbath, they know all about water cooling!
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Reply to 4Ryan6
DHFF
July 31, 2014 10:00:29 AM
Vellinious
July 31, 2014 10:25:24 AM
Ugh. Let me change gears. If your CPU has a TDP of 125 watts, and your video card(s) have a TDP of 400 watts, you'd need enough radiator to cool 525 watts of heat generation. That doesn't change in a single vs dual loop. The only difference would be, in the routing. If you go directly from the GPU to the CPU, yes, CPU temps will be higher, but with enough radiator, the water temps would drop down to near ambient temps again before cycling back through. BUT, adding a radiator with enough capacity to cool the water after the GPU(s), and before the CPU, you effectively do the same thing that a dual loop is doing, with a single loop.
This really isn't that hard to understand..... There's only so much heat to remove from the water. It's all about cooling capacity. Just like you said in the initial post. And thus, with enough radiator, there is no reason to run dual loops. Making a statement like, "dual loops are better" is just illogical and ignorant.
Even more simply. You decide to run a dual loop. You calculate that a 360mm radiator will remove the heat from the GPU(s), and that a 240mm radiator will remove the heat from the CPU. You run the two loops ( Res - Pump - CPU or GPU Block - Rad - Res ).
Now, using the same radiators...the ones that have enough cooling capacity to remove the heat from each individual loop, you do a single loop. (res - pump - GPU block - rad - cpu - rad - res ). The radiators STILL have the same cooling capacity as they did before, and in a single loop. Except, depending on what kind of pumps you use, you could actually end up with an ADVANTAGE in a single loop system, because some pumps will dump heat into the water as well. So instead of having an additional heat source, you only have one.
Some guys swear by dual loops, but only because they don't understand the science behind removing heat from a loop.
Enjoy your bird time.
This really isn't that hard to understand..... There's only so much heat to remove from the water. It's all about cooling capacity. Just like you said in the initial post. And thus, with enough radiator, there is no reason to run dual loops. Making a statement like, "dual loops are better" is just illogical and ignorant.
Even more simply. You decide to run a dual loop. You calculate that a 360mm radiator will remove the heat from the GPU(s), and that a 240mm radiator will remove the heat from the CPU. You run the two loops ( Res - Pump - CPU or GPU Block - Rad - Res ).
Now, using the same radiators...the ones that have enough cooling capacity to remove the heat from each individual loop, you do a single loop. (res - pump - GPU block - rad - cpu - rad - res ). The radiators STILL have the same cooling capacity as they did before, and in a single loop. Except, depending on what kind of pumps you use, you could actually end up with an ADVANTAGE in a single loop system, because some pumps will dump heat into the water as well. So instead of having an additional heat source, you only have one.
Some guys swear by dual loops, but only because they don't understand the science behind removing heat from a loop.
Enjoy your bird time.
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Reply to Vellinious
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