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Android May Be Broadcasting Your Location

Tags:
  • Security
  • Smartphones
  • Tablets
  • Android
  • Google
Last response: in News comments
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July 4, 2014 11:08:10 PM

Kevin, why is this important? What exactly does this allow someone to do/track? Advertisers? Hackers? How can this affect a user's everyday life? Maybe a stupid question to some, but I'm still learning the more complicated stuff.
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July 4, 2014 11:24:36 PM

Can you please stop using that gory pic of a guy on a cel? Even though I know the story behind that pic, I am not a psychopath and am actually bothered by gore when it is used in the wrong place/venue. Thanks.
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13
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July 4, 2014 11:25:20 PM

Kevin, why is this important? What exactly does this allow someone to do/track? Advertisers? Hackers? How can this affect a user's everyday life? Maybe a stupid question to some, but I'm still learning the more complicated stuff.
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-7
July 5, 2014 12:30:17 AM

Quote:
Can you please stop using that gory pic of a guy on a cel? Even though I know the story behind that pic, I am not a psychopath and am actually bothered by gore when it is used in the wrong place/venue. Thanks.

I think that's what happens to iPhone users over time. Too little, too late for that guy.
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July 5, 2014 3:26:22 AM

Quote:
Kevin, why is this important? What exactly does this allow someone to do/track? Advertisers? Hackers? How can this affect a user's everyday life? Maybe a stupid question to some, but I'm still learning the more complicated stuff.

Some people take exception to having their location tracked, it's pretty fundamental stuff
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3
July 5, 2014 4:33:00 AM

With the number of apps that request permission to use location even if they have no apparent reason to need it and people mindlessly tapping their way through permission screens, people's locations probably already leak a lot more than they think it does.
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July 5, 2014 5:12:28 AM

Totally agree with InvalidError, the os could be as leakproof as you want but you are basically forced to give high permissions even just to install a stupid game.
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July 5, 2014 6:20:42 AM

I have this question I'm hoping someone can answer, how does 'keep wifi on during sleep" option to never increases data usage and more importantly power consumption?
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July 5, 2014 6:33:09 AM

godnodog said:
how does 'keep wifi on during sleep" option to never increases data usage and more importantly power consumption?

WiFi connections use less power than 3G/4G data connections and leaving WiFi always-on where you have access to a WiFi network means apps that sync stuff in the background can use your WiFi bandwidth instead of your 3G/4G data plan.
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2
July 5, 2014 7:21:37 AM


Quote:
Kevin, why is this important? What exactly does this allow someone to do/track? Advertisers? Hackers? How can this affect a user's everyday life? Maybe a stupid question to some, but I'm still learning the more complicated stuff.



A slightly tech savvy stalker could find out your movements. Also robbers could do this, probably not a big problem in 'Merica, where robbers tend to be idiots. But in Latin Merica, for example, many robbers are part of organized crime groups, and many of their targets are thought out well in advance (not the ones who rob gringos... but the ones who robber wealthy Latin families and kidnap their kids).
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3
July 5, 2014 8:30:15 AM

They mentioned iOS 6 and 7, but left out an important new addition in iOS 8.

Now MAC addresses are randomly generated by your iPhone while looking for networks to connect to. Only when the user decides to actually connect is the real MAC address then used.

There are already retailers scanning MAC addresses of devices so they can track where someone has been or how often they visit. iOS 8 now eliminates that ability.
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1
July 5, 2014 6:12:12 PM

Turn your WiFi off when you're not using it. It saves your battery even more anyway. Problem solved .
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-4
July 6, 2014 12:19:45 AM

At this point I'm convinced that the only way to live a truly private life is to take all your technology and burn it and go live in the woods.
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1
July 6, 2014 7:26:57 AM

I guess this was done to improve chances of connecting to a non ssid broadcasting network.

Strange thing is normally you just tell it to connect even when not broadcasting, that should have made it only call out non broadcasting networks.

Either way I am with InvalidError on this one.
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-1
July 6, 2014 11:00:34 AM

Quote:
Turn your WiFi off when you're not using it. It saves your battery even more anyway. Problem solved .
I hope for your sake you're a troll and not an apologist. It's 2014. We shouldn't have to manually switch wifi on and off whenever we use our phones. Not to mention interfering with background wifi syncing and large downloads.

Google needs to get their butts in gear, from their response it sounds like they knew about this all along and just were hoping nobody would notice.
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July 6, 2014 11:04:27 AM

Quote:
At this point I'm convinced that the only way to live a truly private life is to take all your technology and burn it and go live in the woods.
Not buying devices running software made by an advertising firm would go a long way to reducing your exposure. Not posting everything you see, do, and eat on Instafacetwitbookergram helps a lot too.
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2
July 6, 2014 2:22:43 PM

Quote:
Quote:
At this point I'm convinced that the only way to live a truly private life is to take all your technology and burn it and go live in the woods.
Not buying devices running software made by an advertising firm would go a long way to reducing your exposure. Not posting everything you see, do, and eat on Instafacetwitbookergram helps a lot too.


So basically, live in the 1980's.... sorry, not going to do that.
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-3
July 6, 2014 5:08:56 PM

alextheblue said:
from their response it sounds like they knew about this all along and just were hoping nobody would notice.

What do you think Google was doing when they were using their streetview cars to map WiFi access points? They probably sniffed out the MACs of every other device along the way as well... acquire the data then find ways to monetize it.
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2
July 6, 2014 5:52:32 PM

apedosmil said:
Kevin, why is this important? What exactly does this allow someone to do/track? Advertisers? Hackers? How can this affect a user's everyday life? Maybe a stupid question to some, but I'm still learning the more complicated stuff.


The biggest problem is privacy. There should be options for it instead of it just being on and them being able to use and sell to companies so they can advertise specifically to you, send you tons of spam mail/email.

I am about ready to move on from Android. Mainly because I started getting spam email with names of people in my contacts which to me was just super annoying.

Christopher1 said:
Quote:
Quote:
At this point I'm convinced that the only way to live a truly private life is to take all your technology and burn it and go live in the woods.
Not buying devices running software made by an advertising firm would go a long way to reducing your exposure. Not posting everything you see, do, and eat on Instafacetwitbookergram helps a lot too.


So basically, live in the 1980's.... sorry, not going to do that.


Microsoft is not an advertising firm. How do you think Google makes so much money? They make all their money off of advertising. Microsoft is a software company and you have to pay/license their software to use it therefore they do not need to rely on ad revenue like Google does.

As well Apple is also not a advertising firm, although I would never use their products as I find them over priced.

So in short, you don't need to use Android to be in the modern age. They are not the only company out there.
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July 6, 2014 6:01:41 PM

FYI nearly all wifi devices do this. If you've ever used airodump you can see a list of client macs along with the essid's that they're searching for... even if the network isn't in range. If you really don't want to be tracked then the only way is to stop using technology.
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-2
July 6, 2014 7:51:41 PM

Who on earth leaves their WiFi on all the time? This is basic stuff, people... you don't leave Bluetooth on when you're not using it, and you don't leave WiFi on when you're not using it. I mean, sure, if you want to kill your battery and give up control of the security of the most important gadget you own, it's no skin off my back. Just seems like walking around a bad neighborhood at night waving wads of $100 bills. Sure, you SHOULD be safe, I mean mugging is against the law, but none of us stupid enough to tempt fate like that.
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July 6, 2014 10:59:27 PM

Quote:
Who on earth leaves their WiFi on all the time? This is basic stuff, people... you don't leave Bluetooth on when you're not using it, and you don't leave WiFi on when you're not using it. I mean, sure, if you want to kill your battery and give up control of the security of the most important gadget you own, it's no skin off my back. Just seems like walking around a bad neighborhood at night waving wads of $100 bills. Sure, you SHOULD be safe, I mean mugging is against the law, but none of us stupid enough to tempt fate like that.

Way to go blaming the customer, typical Google spying apologist, never their fault is it. Why don't you skip right to the part where they implant a GPS chip straight into the brains of newborn babies.
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July 7, 2014 6:03:01 AM

Problem is, Jimmy, that free = gooood, people don't understand that free = they may use your data to make money (fb for example). Microsoft has seen this trend and is pushing the whole "bing" thing but with way more respect for privacy. At least imho.
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July 7, 2014 6:30:24 AM

Blazer1985 said:
Microsoft has seen this trend and is pushing the whole "bing" thing but with way more respect for privacy. At least imho.

For the time being - while Microsoft ponders new ways of monetizing the data they get.

That's the whole story behind "free" online service and 'big data' : hoard data then find/mine ways to monetize it.
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July 7, 2014 7:21:46 AM

This is used by manufacturers like Cisco and Cisco Meraki to help retail businesses track customers. It helps them market better and understand how often a unique device visits, for how long etc. All it needs is a cisco access point and for users to leave wifi turned on. https://meraki.cisco.com/solutions/cmx
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July 7, 2014 7:25:02 AM

back_by_demand said:
Quote:
Who on earth leaves their WiFi on all the time? This is basic stuff, people... you don't leave Bluetooth on when you're not using it, and you don't leave WiFi on when you're not using it. I mean, sure, if you want to kill your battery and give up control of the security of the most important gadget you own, it's no skin off my back. Just seems like walking around a bad neighborhood at night waving wads of $100 bills. Sure, you SHOULD be safe, I mean mugging is against the law, but none of us stupid enough to tempt fate like that.

Way to go blaming the customer, typical Google spying apologist, never their fault is it. Why don't you skip right to the part where they implant a GPS chip straight into the brains of newborn babies.


Nonsense. I'm no apologist for any company - they should secure their software and systems. However, if you've spent any time at all paying attention to the world of software security, you'll know that there is always another bug and another exploit on any platform. It's foolish to give up your ability to control those things and blunder around mindlessly with you device set to allow interactions with devices and networks you don't choose. Knock yourself out though - I'm sure you'll get by for a while on "should."
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July 7, 2014 6:16:48 PM

Quote:
Nonsense. I'm no apologist for any company - they should secure their software and systems. However, if you've spent any time at all paying attention to the world of software security, you'll know that there is always another bug and another exploit on any platform. It's foolish to give up your ability to control those things and blunder around mindlessly with you device set to allow interactions with devices and networks you don't choose. Knock yourself out though - I'm sure you'll get by for a while on "should."
Would you be so apologetic if this was only an Apple issue?

If you truly believe manually disabling your wifi is the sensible solution, you're too far out there and I don't think anyone here can reach you - especially since you've probably disabled wireless on your side of the moon. A device that is not actively connected to a wifi network shouldn't be blindly broadcasting all that info. Conversely at home your device should be allowed to stay connected to sync, backup, download, etc - without you needing to manually connect and disconnect. That's ridiculous. I wouldn't own a device that I lack so much confidence in that I manually disable wifi. That is NOT a solution. Might as well start recommending that people unplug their routers when not in use. Oh, and don't forget building a faraday cage into the exterior of your home.

Also, wifi actually doesn't use that much power. It actually saves energy vs LTE, for example.
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1
July 7, 2014 6:26:43 PM

alextheblue said:
Quote:
Nonsense. I'm no apologist for any company - they should secure their software and systems. However, if you've spent any time at all paying attention to the world of software security, you'll know that there is always another bug and another exploit on any platform. It's foolish to give up your ability to control those things and blunder around mindlessly with you device set to allow interactions with devices and networks you don't choose. Knock yourself out though - I'm sure you'll get by for a while on "should."
Would you be so apologetic if this was only an Apple issue?

If you truly believe manually disabling your wifi is the sensible solution, you're too far out there and I don't think anyone here can reach you - especially since you've probably disabled wireless on your side of the moon. A device that is not actively connected to a wifi network shouldn't be blindly broadcasting all that info. Conversely at home your device should be allowed to stay connected to sync, backup, download, etc - without you needing to manually connect and disconnect. That's ridiculous. I wouldn't own a device that I lack so much confidence in that I manually disable wifi. That is NOT a solution. Might as well start recommending that people unplug their routers when not in use. Oh, and don't forget building a faraday cage into the exterior of your home.

Also, wifi actually doesn't use that much power. It actually saves energy vs LTE, for example.

I see we are incapable of making arguments without silly exaggerations and accusations... that really doesn't help you. I probably have used WiFi on my phone around 20 times, and each of those times was an exception brought about by poor cell coverage. Since I have unlimited 4G data, there is absolutely no reason for me to bother looking for WiFi hotspots when it's not available at work (private corporate network not for personal phones), in my car, or desirable at home because of our bandwidth cap.

I never said they shouldn't fix the issue, I just can't imagine a world of working adults where it's actually that big a deal. Or do you spend your whole day sitting in a coffee shop using their WiFi network?
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July 8, 2014 4:38:08 PM

Quote:
I see we are incapable of making arguments without silly exaggerations and accusations... that really doesn't help you. I probably have used WiFi on my phone around 20 times, and each of those times was an exception brought about by poor cell coverage. Since I have unlimited 4G data, there is absolutely no reason for me to bother looking for WiFi hotspots when it's not available at work (private corporate network not for personal phones), in my car, or desirable at home because of our bandwidth cap.

I never said they shouldn't fix the issue, I just can't imagine a world of working adults where it's actually that big a deal. Or do you spend your whole day sitting in a coffee shop using their WiFi network?
I was just illustrating how ridiculous your "solution" is. Nothing was getting through. It took forever just to get you to explain things better. Did you know that many LTE users here in the US have limited full-speed data (and have to pay additional for more)? Yet most wired broadband has either no cap or extremely high caps. So basically, the situation for most readers here is the exact opposite of what you describe. So what works for you is actually a terrible idea for most people reading your comments.
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-1
July 8, 2014 4:49:58 PM

alextheblue said:
Quote:
I see we are incapable of making arguments without silly exaggerations and accusations... that really doesn't help you. I probably have used WiFi on my phone around 20 times, and each of those times was an exception brought about by poor cell coverage. Since I have unlimited 4G data, there is absolutely no reason for me to bother looking for WiFi hotspots when it's not available at work (private corporate network not for personal phones), in my car, or desirable at home because of our bandwidth cap.

I never said they shouldn't fix the issue, I just can't imagine a world of working adults where it's actually that big a deal. Or do you spend your whole day sitting in a coffee shop using their WiFi network?
I was just illustrating how ridiculous your "solution" is. Nothing was getting through. It took forever just to get you to explain things better. Did you know that many LTE users here in the US have limited full-speed data (and have to pay additional for more)? Yet most wired broadband has either no cap or extremely high caps. So basically, the situation for most readers here is the exact opposite of what you describe. So what works for you is actually a terrible idea for most people reading your comments.


I've been very careful to preserve my unlimited data by keeping the same plan and buying phones alone rather than signing up for the promotional 2 year plans. It's not like I want or need a new phone every two years anyway... that's just how often the phone companies would LIKE us to upgrade.

I can't imagine why anyone would bother with anything but a low-end smartphone without unlimited data... if I'm anywhere with a WiFi connection and I'm going to have the time for downloads and content consumption, I'm at home and I just use my PC. If I'm out and about, chances are I won't have time to stop and find a WiFi connection or I can't be tied to a WiFi hotspot while I do whatever it is that requires data. That whole bandwidth limit racket just completely ruins the major benefits of mobile devices.
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July 9, 2014 3:10:45 AM

Quote:
godnodog said:
how does 'keep wifi on during sleep" option to never increases data usage and more importantly power consumption?

WiFi connections use less power than 3G/4G data connections and leaving WiFi always-on where you have access to a WiFi network means apps that sync stuff in the background can use your WiFi bandwidth instead of your 3G/4G data plan.



Thanks for the reply, but you did not answer my question, as the data amount will be the same, the way it´s syc/uploaded/downloaded may be different (3g/4G vs WIFI) but 3mb is 3mb regardless.
But it´s the claim that the power consuption being greater if wifi is off rather then on is baffling me
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July 9, 2014 4:17:34 AM

godnodog said:
Thanks for the reply, but you did not answer my question, as the data amount will be the same, the way it´s syc/uploaded/downloaded may be different (3g/4G vs WIFI) but 3mb is 3mb regardless.
But it´s the claim that the power consuption being greater if wifi is off rather then on is baffling me

Yes, the data amount is the same between 3G/4G and WiFi but data over WiFi is either free or at least much cheaper.

The power consumption goes a bit in the same way: they make that claim based on the average smartphone user being connected to Facebook, Twitter and a bunch of other things practically all the time and maintaining an always-on connection to online services drains less power over WiFi than 3G/4G since the WiFi signal only needs to travel 0-30m and 0-5 walls/floors to the AP instead of 30m-20km and 0-20 walls/floors, trees, hills, etc. for 3G/4G
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