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Despite Six Strikes, US ISPs Disconnecting Repeat Offenders

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  • Digital Entertainment
  • Security
  • Internet
Last response: in News comments
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July 8, 2014 10:32:24 AM

Good. People think that getting something for nothing is awesome, but don't realize these "thefts" only drive up prices (or keep prices high) for the rest of us who buy our products. Charge them, disconnect them, and hound them. If you don't like the laws in this country related to copyright/intellectual property - well you know what to do.
Score
-27
July 8, 2014 10:39:57 AM

Quote:
The company believes this is a far more superior plan than the six strikes plan, and is now taking it a bit further -- disconnection.


/probably not intended...but nice pun.
Score
-12
July 8, 2014 10:41:13 AM

Bondfc11: It's a nice argument but it just isn't true. These companies will always keeps prices where they want them regardless of downloading piracy. The other point is that as it is all digital there is no physical loss, nor is there actual financial loss in the majority of cases (majority, not all all cases). If a person can't afford to buy a CD or DVD for example and then download it instead, they have the audio and/or the movie but the companies has not 'lost' anything other than what they would see as a potential sale. They haven't actually lost a sale as many of these people can't afford the music of DVDs as it is. So the only difference is that the end user has something that they would not have otherwise had which makes no difference to the owning companies. The only losses they actually suffer are those by people who could, should and would otherwise actually go out and buy the products.
Score
16
July 8, 2014 10:48:30 AM

Quote:
Quote:
The company believes this is a far more superior plan than the six strikes plan, and is now taking it a bit further -- disconnection.


/probably not intended...but nice pun.


I am not seeing the pun...?
Score
12
July 8, 2014 10:49:59 AM

Glad I live in the Netherlands fight in court against blocking the pirate bay and actually won instead of blocking their internet users, the worst that happened here is that downloading from an illegal source is in fact not legal anymore and that was just because of EU regulations.
Score
9
July 8, 2014 10:50:53 AM

Move along, nothing to see here
Score
-6
July 8, 2014 11:13:01 AM

It's not terrible to get pirates to pay a $20 fine although that seems a bit steep considering they don't have verification that these people actually have or are playing these files.

Disconnecting their internet is going too far though, especially considering all the services that run on it nowadays.
Score
-2
July 8, 2014 11:33:43 AM

SchizoFrog said:
Bondfc11: It's a nice argument but it just isn't true. These companies will always keeps prices where they want them regardless of downloading piracy. The other point is that as it is all digital there is no physical loss, nor is there actual financial loss in the majority of cases (majority, not all all cases). If a person can't afford to buy a CD or DVD for example and then download it instead, they have the audio and/or the movie but the companies has not 'lost' anything other than what they would see as a potential sale. They haven't actually lost a sale as many of these people can't afford the music of DVDs as it is. So the only difference is that the end user has something that they would not have otherwise had which makes no difference to the owning companies. The only losses they actually suffer are those by people who could, should and would otherwise actually go out and buy the products.


Ahh yes, the bread and butter argument of Generation Entitlement... so ***** lame. You would have to be incredibly ignorant to not realize that property, whether it is physical, digital, or intellectual, is STILL property that belongs to an individual or company. When you take a person's property, it is theft. It's really pretty cut and dry. By no means do I support the MPA, the RIAA, or any of the entertainment industry clowns and their ridiculous lobbying, DRM tactics and so forth... But damn... people like you that have somehow actually justified this in their minds as being absolutely ok just because it is not a tangible object and "you want it but weren't going to buy it"... It is no wonder many people outside of the U.S. look at us and laugh at how stupid people like you make everyone look with your complete lack of even an elementary level of common sense.. I guess I'll just go hack a database and steal your personal info and identity and sell it off to the highest bidder... I can do that right? I mean, I didn't take anything physical from your residents, so it's all good, right? Actually, I'm ENTITLED to take your personal info because, well, I want that money! That makes it all ok, because I want it.. right?..... yeah, that's how stupid you sound.

Score
-15
July 8, 2014 11:33:45 AM

A scam is a scam is a scam and an IP address will never be the same as a specific person.
Score
13
July 8, 2014 11:41:45 AM

the ISP should have no control of how someone uses the service, pirating, email, porn suffing etc...if you pay for the service then who cares how someone uses it...once they start to disconnet people from the web the ISP will start to lose money...big money...the person that's being disconnected can very easily connect back up with a different service provider
Score
9
July 8, 2014 11:51:28 AM

You can buy land, but you can't use it to manufacture drugs. You can pay for an ISP, but you can't use it to acquire/distribute stolen goods. Nothing strange about that. Just because you pay money for a service doesn't mean you can use it to do any matter of illegal things.
Score
-2
July 8, 2014 11:56:49 AM

Quote:

Ahh yes, the bread and butter argument of Generation Entitlement... so <mod edit> lame. You would have to be incredibly ignorant to not realize that property, whether it is physical, digital, or intellectual, is STILL property that belongs to an individual or company. When you take a person's property, it is theft. It's really pretty cut and dry. By no means do I support the MPA, the RIAA, or any of the entertainment industry clowns and their ridiculous lobbying, DRM tactics and so forth... But damn... people like you that have somehow actually justified this in their minds as being absolutely ok just because it is not a tangible object and "you want it but weren't going to buy it"... It is no wonder many people outside of the U.S. look at us and laugh at how stupid people like you make everyone look with your complete lack of even an elementary level of common sense.. I guess I'll just go hack a database and steal your personal info and identity and sell it off to the highest bidder... I can do that right? I mean, I didn't take anything physical from your residents, so it's all good, right? Actually, I'm ENTITLED to take your personal info because, well, I want that money! That makes it all ok, because I want it.. right?..... yeah, that's how stupid you sound.


Right, because corporations are people, we shouldn't hurt their feelings, and we should all genuflect in front of the new CEOverlords.

As questionable as their argument is, yours is even worse. Their argument stems from a rightly justified rejection of capitalism, and although it may not express itself particularly well, has merit when faced with the failed system we're currently trying to scavenge.

Your argument, aside from bashing its head against the wall of this slowly moving tide of resentment, is trying to defend the worst criminals out there. So you're saying it's theft, clear cut. Fine. What about the countless number of times businesses will arguably steal from millions, be it through over-hyping a product that is an utter POS and not accepting refunds, or through any other means.

Many pirates, certainly the ones I know, use pirating as a ways to keep companies honest. A long time ago, game conglomerates realized they could make a lot more money by selling a <mod edit> game, and not providing a demo, than by producing a quality product and giving a demo showing how good it is. Piracy is a way of stopping this, the worst of "free" market capitalism, by giving them repercussions for producing a horrible product. Instead of everybody buying it and realizing how awful it is and the company getting away entirely, some few of them would try it, dislike it, delete it, and spread the words to others. If it is a good product, they buy it, and still spread the word to others.

You call them the entitlement generation, but ask yourself this: Does it make you feel good being morally superior over those who feel they are entitled to a few games and movies produced by companies with billions in holdings, while defending the executives of the same companies that feel they are entitled to as much money as they can get their hands on by cheating and scamming, at the cost of their workers and their customers?





Quote:
the ISP should have no control of how someone uses the service, pirating, email, porn suffing etc...if you pay for the service then who cares how someone uses it...once they start to disconnet people from the web the ISP will start to lose money...big money...the person that's being disconnected can very easily connect back up with a different service provider
No they can't. Sure, if you live in a big city, you have choices, but if you live anywhere outside of that, the majority of the time you only have one offering for your ISP.

What should h ave happened was regulators getting off their collective rear end and realizing that access to the internet is as basic and necessary a commodity as electricity is, and treat it as such, making sure that all parts of the country have access rather than relying on profit-hungry companies to come in and make their decisions based on financial gain alone.
Score
17
a b 8 Security
July 8, 2014 12:00:49 PM

Let's keep it civil in here. And watch the language.
Score
7
July 8, 2014 12:18:13 PM

File sharing is the same thing as buying a dvd and giving it to your friend to borrow, only difference is you dont have to physically hand it to them...Whats next? If I buy a dvd or game will I be breaking the law if I physically give it to a friend to borrow? In the past couple of years there has been a countless number PC games that have been poorly optimized, "not finished" or have major compatibility issues with high end setups that include dual gpus and triple monitors. This is the main reason why I torrent, to make sure what I potentially might buy works the way I expect it to. I do not play the game past the 1st mission,race, map etc. The last game I bought without testing out via torrent was titanfall. Not only was that game way over hyped but when I finally got around to playing it, it had many issues including artifacting, lag and disconnects to say the least. My main problems was IT WOULDNT WORK WITH DUAL GPU SETUPS!!!..After waiting months for this issue to be fixed I finally gave up..The only solution they could give me was to disable one of my cards. REALLY?!?! Honestly, who wants to disable a video card they just spent $300 on? anyone? didnt think so....And to the genius that said piracy is why the prices keep going up? rofl! Maybe piracy might be a contributing factor but its definitely not the sole reason behind it. Have you ever thought of the free to play scene and how many people are switching over to games like that? Do you realize dota and league of legends are the 2 biggest games right now? and they are both free? And you can get payed to play it? What about game devs wanting more money? After all, they already want your money before the game comes out with all this pre ordering garbage. Seriously people, turn your brain on...The prices will continue to get higher and higher and there are a number of reasons, not just because piracy.
Score
14
a b 8 Security
July 8, 2014 12:21:09 PM

Zak Walsh said:
File sharing is the same thing as buying a dvd and giving it to your friend to borrow, only difference is you dont have to physically hand it to them...


No it's not. When you loan the dvd, you don't have it anymore. You can't use it.
File sharing is..I give you a copy and keep a copy for me. 1 purchase, 2 people using it at the same time.

Not defending things either way, but let's get the concepts right.
Score
6
July 8, 2014 12:21:44 PM

Quote:
SchizoFrog said:
Bondfc11: It's a nice argument but it just isn't true. These companies will always keeps prices where they want them regardless of downloading piracy. The other point is that as it is all digital there is no physical loss, nor is there actual financial loss in the majority of cases (majority, not all all cases). If a person can't afford to buy a CD or DVD for example and then download it instead, they have the audio and/or the movie but the companies has not 'lost' anything other than what they would see as a potential sale. They haven't actually lost a sale as many of these people can't afford the music of DVDs as it is. So the only difference is that the end user has something that they would not have otherwise had which makes no difference to the owning companies. The only losses they actually suffer are those by people who could, should and would otherwise actually go out and buy the products.


Ahh yes, the bread and butter argument of Generation Entitlement... so ***** lame. You would have to be incredibly ignorant to not realize that property, whether it is physical, digital, or intellectual, is STILL property that belongs to an individual or company. When you take a person's property, it is theft. It's really pretty cut and dry. By no means do I support the MPA, the RIAA, or any of the entertainment industry clowns and their ridiculous lobbying, DRM tactics and so forth... But damn... people like you that have somehow actually justified this in their minds as being absolutely ok just because it is not a tangible object and "you want it but weren't going to buy it"... It is no wonder many people outside of the U.S. look at us and laugh at how stupid people like you make everyone look with your complete lack of even an elementary level of common sense.. I guess I'll just go hack a database and steal your personal info and identity and sell it off to the highest bidder... I can do that right? I mean, I didn't take anything physical from your residents, so it's all good, right? Actually, I'm ENTITLED to take your personal info because, well, I want that money! That makes it all ok, because I want it.. right?..... yeah, that's how stupid you sound.



That's not the point he was making. He said that the companies are not actually losing as much money as they thought, and being digital has a very large part of this. Let me explain

If a person is homeless and can't buy bread, they can't buy bread, but they can steal the bread. The problem with this is that it costs the company selling the bread the cost to produce that bread.

BUT, with digital property, it costs the company nothing to reproduce the content. Therefore if someone who wouldn't have bought it (homeless person), just pirated it, then the company doesn't lose money so it doesn't hurt them, and the person gets the content.

The difference between this and what you are saying about stealing identity is that it doesn't hurt the company, it only benefits the downloader. Of course there are cases where people who normally would buy it instead pirate it (which bondfc mentioned) and that causes companies to lose money.
Score
7
July 8, 2014 1:31:56 PM

You would think at the first, second, or third offense, people would sign up for a VPN proxy service that doesn't log your IP like torguard, hide my @#$, or one of the many others.
Score
9
July 8, 2014 1:33:06 PM

cat and mouse, but for every mouse you catch 5 more will pop up. good luck on that hunt.
Score
4
July 8, 2014 1:49:50 PM

Quote:
Quote:

Ahh yes, the bread and butter argument of Generation Entitlement... so <mod edit> lame. You would have to be incredibly ignorant to not realize that property, whether it is physical, digital, or intellectual, is STILL property that belongs to an individual or company. When you take a person's property, it is theft. It's really pretty cut and dry. By no means do I support the MPA, the RIAA, or any of the entertainment industry clowns and their ridiculous lobbying, DRM tactics and so forth... But damn... people like you that have somehow actually justified this in their minds as being absolutely ok just because it is not a tangible object and "you want it but weren't going to buy it"... It is no wonder many people outside of the U.S. look at us and laugh at how stupid people like you make everyone look with your complete lack of even an elementary level of common sense.. I guess I'll just go hack a database and steal your personal info and identity and sell it off to the highest bidder... I can do that right? I mean, I didn't take anything physical from your residents, so it's all good, right? Actually, I'm ENTITLED to take your personal info because, well, I want that money! That makes it all ok, because I want it.. right?..... yeah, that's how stupid you sound.


Right, because corporations are people, we shouldn't hurt their feelings, and we should all genuflect in front of the new CEOverlords.

As questionable as their argument is, yours is even worse. Their argument stems from a rightly justified rejection of capitalism, and although it may not express itself particularly well, has merit when faced with the failed system we're currently trying to scavenge.

Your argument, aside from bashing its head against the wall of this slowly moving tide of resentment, is trying to defend the worst criminals out there. So you're saying it's theft, clear cut. Fine. What about the countless number of times businesses will arguably steal from millions, be it through over-hyping a product that is an utter POS and not accepting refunds, or through any other means.

Many pirates, certainly the ones I know, use pirating as a ways to keep companies honest. A long time ago, game conglomerates realized they could make a lot more money by selling a shitty game, and not providing a demo, than by producing a quality product and giving a demo showing how good it is. Piracy is a way of stopping this, the worst of "free" market capitalism, by giving them repercussions for producing a horrible product. Instead of everybody buying it and realizing how awful it is and the company getting away entirely, some few of them would try it, dislike it, delete it, and spread the words to others. If it is a good product, they buy it, and still spread the word to others.

You call them the entitlement generation, but ask yourself this: Does it make you feel good being morally superior over those who feel they are entitled to a few games and movies produced by companies with billions in holdings, while defending the executives of the same companies that feel they are entitled to as much money as they can get their hands on by cheating and scamming, at the cost of their workers and their customers?





Quote:
the ISP should have no control of how someone uses the service, pirating, email, porn suffing etc...if you pay for the service then who cares how someone uses it...once they start to disconnet people from the web the ISP will start to lose money...big money...the person that's being disconnected can very easily connect back up with a different service provider
No they can't. Sure, if you live in a big city, you have choices, but if you live anywhere outside of that, the majority of the time you only have one offering for your ISP.

What should h ave happened was regulators getting off their collective rear end and realizing that access to the internet is as basic and necessary a commodity as electricity is, and treat it as such, making sure that all parts of the country have access rather than relying on profit-hungry companies to come in and make their decisions based on financial gain alone.


Word, this is one the better pro-piracy arguments that I've read beyond the standard "they weren't going to buy it anyway," which I would agree doesn't always necessarily lack merit. I'm an anti-capitalist, I'm going to be pirating your shizz and laughing about it when millionaires and billionaires cry about how food isn't being taken off their plates or how they struggle to make ends meet, or when the hackers, crackers and contributors to the piracy community make digital commodities that exist in a virtually infinite abundance to available to everyone as a form of resistance of capitalism (no matter how it's being justified, interpreted or elaborated), even a form of affirmation. The people who participate in these types of activities usually aren't out to harm the average person, so someone hacking me premised upon arguments against piracy fails to differentiate between the wealthy to poor-average person. And besides, your values aren't my values, including those of property relations, and I really don't care about the law.

Capitalism is itself theft and entitlement of the wealthy, corporations and individual capitalists arbitrarily profit through the labor of workers which for the most part they contribute nothing to, and being that most people don't have access to enough capital so as become a capitalist while not being edged out of the market (that's aside from capitalism not being able to function without stratification and inequality) and that class relations are enforced through legal institutions, including the police apparatus, it's not a voluntary relation rather than a power relation entwined through various structures, economic (in both aspects of production and consumption), political and social.

I don't feel the need to apologize about pirating, about crappy games, software, DRM, films, etc, but I'm still more inclined to support indie musicians, developers or whatever as my budget allows me to given that I'm actually interested in their creations considering they're much more vulnerable to market mechanisms than HBO, EA, or whatever large scale corporate record label. They're also most generally not all that financially stable as individuals while not letting their creations being dictated by profit and sales considerations while being bogged down by inflated budgets and a loss of control, which is usually why the quality is, I guess subjectively, superior to a lot of the mass produced crap that's out there, and while they do intend to make a living by doing something they enjoy a lot of them aren't overly concerned about piracy. So for me at least, it's not an issue of being pro-small or independent business as opposed to large business, but what type of affects certain practices will have upon them as people once they start to become too excessive.

And lol, a lot of the people outside of the US don't like the US as a whole because they think that the right-wing and American chauvinism here is representative of everyone who happens to live within the geographical area collectively known as the US (apart from its former colonies). I can't necessarily blame 'em.

Anyway, after wanting to find out if there were any analyses or interpretations of p2p as being a form of digital communism, although I'm not stoked on market socialist ideas I found a pretty interesting article written by Kevin Carson that I'd suggest looking into if it's relevant to your political inclinations. Companies can do whatever they want so as to prevent piracy, including the inevitable demolishing of net neutrality (an intersection between the political and economic that has and always will exist so long as these structures and relations remain intact), there is and always has been a way to outmaneuver them.
Score
4
July 8, 2014 1:52:03 PM

Yeah, that quoting thing didn't work out quite so well, and apparently I can't edit my post.
Score
0
July 8, 2014 1:54:31 PM

Disconnect your paying customers. Good idea.
Score
3
July 8, 2014 2:01:05 PM

I used to pirate video games, until STEAM rolled around. excellent games at cheap prices, they sell in volume, we ALL win.

if movies and music were proportionally cheaper, i would buy those too. i would want nothing more than the purest quality of music/movies without the worry of a poor rip. but they don't want to sell in volume because they are still in the 20th century.

and no, i don't buy the "stolen property is stolen" argument. they make plenty of money as it is. im not worried.
Score
9
July 8, 2014 2:28:55 PM

loved living in Guatemala. Download police?? haha.... as soon as the country started enforcing the homicide laws, I might have worried about it (although there are probably a lot of crimes between homicide and illegal downloads for them to enforce first). All these rules apply to the USA only. America = corporate police state.
Score
-1
July 8, 2014 3:38:57 PM

I find it amazing how many people have no idea what they are talking about. Piracy doesn't cost anything? Really? Every argument on this page that started with that premise is an auto ignore. Start a business and then let's talk about anti-capitalism. To the one dude that cannot quote properly - where would you be without someone else paying your way (a business owner)? Are you self-employed not making a dime off of a capitalist enterprise? Probably not. But you start your whole argument with that premise. Interesting.
Score
-5
July 8, 2014 3:46:56 PM

VPN... no strikes at all here been downloading for years now.
Score
0
July 8, 2014 4:29:35 PM

So who is protecting me, the consumer, against the same ISPs from stealing my personal information and selling it without my consent? This is the essence of hypocritical.
Score
2
July 8, 2014 4:53:17 PM

Quote:
Yeah, that quoting thing didn't work out quite so well, and apparently I can't edit my post.

Its good to see that you gave yourself a username that fits you well...clueless. You have no idea about economics or how the real world works. For example, have you even thought about the $50k-ish income making programmers and artists who develop games for EA etc? Thier livelyhoods depend on the income from those games. If they make a good game and it is pirated to all hell, their development studio closes. And dont feed us the line of BS of "if its a good game i will buy it". We both know that you would come up with some excuse not to. Being against corrupt executives i can understand, but being anti capitalism i cant. Look at the countries that have communism in them and tell me with a straight face that you think life there is better than it is here.
Score
0
July 8, 2014 4:56:06 PM

Quote:
loved living in Guatemala. Download police?? haha.... as soon as the country started enforcing the homicide laws, I might have worried about it (although there are probably a lot of crimes between homicide and illegal downloads for them to enforce first). All these rules apply to the USA only. America = corporate police state.


Guatamala, what a wonder place to live. Your people are fleeing by the tens of thousands everyday to come to america...yeah, it is sooo terrible here.
Score
0
July 8, 2014 4:57:19 PM

Quote:
I used to pirate video games, until STEAM rolled around. excellent games at cheap prices, they sell in volume, we ALL win.

if movies and music were proportionally cheaper, i would buy those too. i would want nothing more than the purest quality of music/movies without the worry of a poor rip. but they don't want to sell in volume because they are still in the 20th century.

and no, i don't buy the "stolen property is stolen" argument. they make plenty of money as it is. im not worried.


So you want things of the highest quality but don't want to pay anything for them. If everyone was like you we would be all living in the stone age still.
Score
-4
July 8, 2014 5:25:22 PM

I bet that if you got a good lawyer they could sue this rightscorp out of existence, since this is simply blackmail and extortion rather than a real settlement. A settlement is used to avoid legal action, blackmail is meant to avoid a non-legal action that is not in a contract.
Score
4
July 8, 2014 5:32:01 PM

I never understood the logic behind: "its too expensive, so im gonna pirate"

If you cant afford something.. then go without.
or save your allowance until you CAN afford it.
Score
-3
July 8, 2014 5:37:04 PM

kittle said:
I never understood the logic behind: "its too expensive, so im gonna pirate"

If you cant afford something.. then go without.
or save your allowance until you CAN afford it.


if I go without it, im the only loser. If I pirate it, then no one is the loser.
Score
1
July 8, 2014 6:29:26 PM

and here's where we all start using VPN and everything gets encrypted.
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-1
July 8, 2014 8:48:26 PM

This wont solve anything.

People will go get the files hosted in countries that aren't subject to US Copyright law. The gaming industry has done this to themselves by producing lower quality products, valuing profit above quality, and compromising the integrity of honest reviewing online.

For as large an industry as gaming is they sure do exploit the consumer being as unregulated as they are.
Score
4
July 8, 2014 8:53:18 PM

LOOL $20 per shared file. Considering most of them are .99 cent mp3s, go to hell. Some of the comments I took the liberty to skim....

A) Filesharing is not theft. Theft deprives the rightful owner of property. File sharing does no such thing.

B) Did you seriously just call "pirates" the worst criminals out there? Not rapists? Murderers? Sex offenders? Embezzlers? Not the people who ran Tyco, Adelphia, Enron? Ruined thousands of lives? Not malevolent politicians? Not the private bankers? Not drug cartels? Idiot.
Score
4
July 9, 2014 6:20:24 AM

keep in mind that most of the top software companies are in business because their products were easy to steal. Microsoft Windows being #1 on that list. If Microsoft Windows had the activation system put in place now, nobody would've picked it. Same can be said for Photoshop, Maya, AutoCAD, etc. All these companies owe Piracy as the cause of being in business. Demand is what generates sales. Market use is what creates demand.
Score
4
July 9, 2014 7:13:35 AM

So I see a lot of the same tired, stupid, arguments over and over again.
First, theft is the taking of property that doesn't belong to you or that you haven't paid for. Period. You can try to dress it up any which way you want. You take something that isn't yours or hasn't been given to you, it's theft. You can argue about how "noble" it was or whatever, but you're still a thief. You're only deluding yourself if you start trying to bend the definition.

Second, flat penalty models are generally stupid. Tailored penalty models are costly and time consuming. Flat models win out because the people in charge don't feel like going through the hassle of figuring the actual costs for each individual likely to fall under the umbrella. Without a guarantee that they won't later come back to throw you in jail for your pirating, paying this fee without a legal document protecting yourself from criminal liability would be like paying for evidence against yourself. That being said, $20 per file likely sounds like a pittance compared to the financial penalty a court would hand down, not to mention possible jail time on top of it. How much is a year of your life in jail worth to you?

Third, these actions are not meant to wrangle the specific cost dodged by that single pirate. It's about protection of the content. If tomorrow some company said "we're not going to try to stop pirates, or seek to inhibit the activities of pirates" you'd see their quarterly profits fall through the floor. Why? Because no one likes to pay for anything. This idea that pirates are merely trying to balance the scales is hogwash. Even if that were true for some pirates, and I don't doubt some hold that warped thinking, the vast majority of pirates, and people in general, would look at it as an opportunity to score a lot of free stuff. If these companies don't protect their content, it's like saying they don't care if people go and get it for free, which says either how little they care about their product, or that they plan on going out of business fairly soon if they keep it up long enough.

You don't like a company, ignore them. That's the best way. You don't buy anything from them, and you tell others don't buy anything from them, and eventually they will naturally disappear as a company. Claims of holding them accountable by piracy is more often than not a simple convenient excuse.
Score
0
July 9, 2014 9:41:27 AM

Quote:
Yeah, that quoting thing didn't work out quite so well, and apparently I can't edit my post.


Yes you can. Go to the UK site, find the thread, click on Edit or Quick Edit. Easy.

Ian.

Score
0
July 9, 2014 1:31:31 PM

Bondfc11 said:
I find it amazing how many people have no idea what they are talking about. Piracy doesn't cost anything? Really? Every argument on this page that started with that premise is an auto ignore. Start a business and then let's talk about anti-capitalism. To the one dude that cannot quote properly - where would you be without someone else paying your way (a business owner)? Are you self-employed not making a dime off of a capitalist enterprise? Probably not. But you start your whole argument with that premise. Interesting.


RCguitarist said:
Quote:
Yeah, that quoting thing didn't work out quite so well, and apparently I can't edit my post.

Its good to see that you gave yourself a username that fits you well...clueless. You have no idea about economics or how the real world works. For example, have you even thought about the $50k-ish income making programmers and artists who develop games for EA etc? Thier livelyhoods depend on the income from those games. If they make a good game and it is pirated to all hell, their development studio closes. And dont feed us the line of BS of "if its a good game i will buy it". We both know that you would come up with some excuse not to. Being against corrupt executives i can understand, but being anti capitalism i cant. Look at the countries that have communism in them and tell me with a straight face that you think life there is better than it is here.


Actually, to all you nay-sayers, I've studied quite a bit of political economy (probably more than the all of you combined) and have a quite good understanding of how it functions in the real world apart from its idealizations, e.g. Keynes, Ricardo, Hayek, Marx, Smith, Mises, etc, but all in all I don't accept the fundamental premises of most of political economy other than Marx's critique of it and the critiques and analyses which followed him. Profit itself is theft because the capital required to produce goods or services was A PRIORI created by workers, with workers being the ones who actually create value (necessary value and surplus value) as determined by the amount of socially necessary labor time required to produce a commodity, with the only thing entitling capitalists to both capital and the products thereof as engendered by labor being money and power (in this instance, class) relations enforced through legal institutions. Therefore, capitalists are entirely superfluous to the production and distribution process while disproportionately benefiting from it in contrast to workers or even the piracy communities, and therefore I'm going to steal from corporations and laugh about it. No matter how you want to cut it, we can live without capitalists and corporations but they can't live (as a class) without us.

This is simply the best way that I can frame this without having to go into too much depth about it. So what would be my solution? Abolish the capitalist class or abolish class altogether. Could you not discern how I made a distinction between independently to smaller scale produced goods and services and corporations when it comes to piracy? Profitability is almost never an issue for these corporations in which the upper tiers and shareholders are the ones who are reaping the profits, and wages aren't derived from profit (although profit is often reinvested into new projects and expansion, which isn't necessarily a good thing for either workers or consumers) rather than being a part of the initial investment (necessary value). Piracy is a marginal phenomenon and like others have argued doesn't constitute an actual loss for the company. And instead of this bourgeois notion of trickle down economics and sacrifice on the behalf of the workers or even consumers, maybe upper management should be forced to take reductions in pay? Honestly, a lot of the stuff EA puts out while still selling in the millions is crap to begin with and I'm not obligated to buy crap or even expend the necessary amount of time to pirate it, compensate for an inherently unstable economic system where inflated budgets and the overaccumulation of capital and its tendencies results in people getting laid off with a decline in living standards, or to apologize for hierarchical relations and power structures. One of these days that bubble's gonna POP POP POP, and everything will come tumbling down just as it has many times before.

Oh, and none of those countries were or are actually communist, and I'm not even a Marxist. China, where virtually all commodities are produced these days so corporations can circumvent labor regulations and laws that were implemented because of the threat of class struggle (influenced by revolutionary ideas) in the Western world, being thoroughly capitalist but under an authoritarian regime of a Communist Party, actually have some pretty bad work conditions and wages to deal with. You shouldn't conceive of a company as a whole rather than in parts, and then decide who it is that you become partial to, all notions of *just corruption* aside. And personally, I agree with Shark. Fu** your business and fu** a capitalist. I'll buy something from a co-operative, if out of principle more than it being an actual form of resistance or potential alternative to capitalism, but then again most companies aren't co-operatives. You want to spearhead something? Make sure UK Crytek workers get paid and soon or stfu and not apologize for Crytek as a company or market dynamics, because you can't blame piracy on that one.
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July 10, 2014 5:15:07 AM

screw these bastards. hope they rot in h3ll
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July 10, 2014 7:14:18 AM

Join a private tracker and pay $10 a month for a VPN or seedbox and you won't have to give a dime to the greedy and corrupt RIAA and MPAA.
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!