Water Cooling: Closed Loop Vs. Open Loop

[DHFF]

Hello everyone,

Up until now I have not had much need for Water Coolers. I have toyed around with a few Closed loops because they are easy to install and use but for the most part I have found Air coolers to meet my needs.

However... I am now looking longingly at AMD's FX9000 series and there is no way that I would imagine using an air cooler for that beast. so if I pick one up I want to certainly go the watercooling route. That being said I need to bone up on my water cooling knowledge. So for starters what would be the pros and cons of a closed system like the Corsair H100i Vs an Open system?

Any insights or experiences you can share will be appreciated.

 

[skywere]

sweet, this is just the question for me!

ill start with some pros and cons,

pros about closed: its easy to install, minimum fear for leakage and you do not need to change the tubing and coolant every once in a while (around a year)

cons about a closed loop: you cannot expand it if you want more radiators or more waterblocks, they are rarely found for GPU's and you cannot customize it.

pros about a open loop: you can make it just how you want it, add more waterblocks, remove them or add more radiators, it looks better and because you can change out the radiators you can make it cool better.

cons about a open loop: you need to change tubing and coolant once in a while ( again, this can be one a year or even once every 2 years), it costs considerably more then a simple closed loop and it can leak if you do not connect it properly.

there are some more pros and cons about both but i do not want to make this too long, you can always ask them if you want.

if you are not that much into the looks of your PC and want a decent performance and no maintenance once every year or 2, a closed loop would be cool.
however, a open loop can be customized to work with a GPU too ofcourse, that way you can cool and maybe overclock both if you are into that.

i have a friend who uses a H100 and he has a pretty nice overclock and good temperatures too.
i however have a open loop that is now cooling my i5-2320 overclocked @ 3,7 GHz, with a 360MM (3 fans wide) double thick radiator.
i get great temperatures and my CPU has no problem running on the highest overclock i could get it to.

i currently have my system running for 1 year now with this loop and i have had no problems with leaks, i have just ordered new tubing for my new watercooling box project.

i have spend 300 euro ( 350 dollar roughly ) on this loop and when i want my GPU to be watercooled too i just need to buy a waterblock and 2 fittings, it costs about 150 dollar then but then i have fully integrated my GPU in my loop.

basically, there are pros and cons about a open loop, but it all comes to what you think. do you want to customize? do you want to watercool more components? do you want to make it run cooler?

i hope i helped and informed you a bit with my knowledge, if you want any more information that i forgot or if you want to hear more about my experiences, i would be glad to help you out!

if there is one thing i love it's talking about water cooling ;D

-Skywere

 

[Pcbuilder123]

Personally, I believe in air cooling. You could spend less, and unless you want it just because it looks cool, or because you are an extreme overclocker. Why go for an h100i, just an nh-d15. It will take up alot of space, so for mini itx scenarios, it might be good, but not always. Closed loop cooler can hardly ever upgraded. Even something like a 9590 could be cooled by an nhd14 (if you have the space.) Air cooling is sometimes quiet, with a good cooler. Maybe it is because I am still a teenager and can't afford a water cooler with my own money, but I would go air cooling for now.

 

[DHFF]

@ Skywere: thank you very much for the response. One of my interests was determining how much more of a performance boost a custom loop would provide an whether it was worth the exta cost. From what you have explained its obvious a custom system would provide that because I could install multiple radiators that would provide more cooling. I am leaning towards a closed loop because I very much like the idea of less maintenance, I love building them but once the system is finished I would prefer to not have to do much more then blow the dust out periodically.

On the other hand I really dont know what kind of stress a 220W chip will put on a cooling system and I am nervous that a closed loop wont be enough. Additionally I really like the idea of cooling the graphics card so I haven't written off a custom loop yet. from what I can see on youtube they dont look difficult to install. they are just much more expensive.

@Pcbuilder123: Normally I am right with you, I typically trust air cooling for all my needs and have seen excellent results. My Xenon rarely tops 40c even when running dozens of aps an games simultaneously. That being said, I am looking at water cooling specifically because of the FX9000 series chips which clock in at 220W at stock speed. I am not confidant that an air cooler will be sufficient.

 

[Pcbuilder123]

@ Skywere: thank you very much for the response. One of my interests was determining how much more of a performance boost a custom loop would provide an whether it was worth the exta cost. From what you have explained its obvious a custom system would provide that because I could install multiple radiators that would provide more cooling. I am leaning towards a closed loop because I very much like the idea of less maintenance, I love building them but once the system is finished I would prefer to not have to do much more then blow the dust out periodically.

On the other hand I really dont know what kind of stress a 220W chip will put on a cooling system and I am nervous that a closed loop wont be enough. Additionally I really like the idea of cooling the graphics card so I haven't written off a custom loop yet. from what I can see on youtube they dont look difficult to install. they are just much more expensive.

@Pcbuilder123: Normally I am right with you, I typically trust air cooling for all my needs and have seen excellent results. My Xenon rarely tops 40c even when running dozens of aps an games simultaneously. That being said, I am looking at water cooling specifically because of the FX9000 series chips which clock in at 220W at stock speed. I am not confidant that an air cooler will be sufficient.

TekSyndicate used a nh-d14 on a 9590

 

[Karadjgne]

http://pcpartpicker.com/part/cooler-master-cpu-cooler-rln28l20pkr

http://www.frostytech.com/top5heatsinks.cfm

Makes for a good read.

 

[Pcbuilder123]

http://pcpartpicker.com/part/cooler-master-cpu-cooler-rln28l20pkr

http://www.frostytech.com/top5heatsinks.cfm

Makes for a good read.

Passive coolers are a very bad idea. Mostly, people think it is okay to get a fully passive system, but that is not how it works, lol. A passive cooler is engineered to run with air flow around it, not absolutely nothing. Maybe for an a6 web browsing machine it might be okay, but nothing serious.

 

[manofchalk]

@ Skywere: From what you have explained its obvious a custom system would provide that because I could install multiple radiators that would provide more cooling.

More radiators provide more cooling potential, not more cooling. If a 240mm rad is enough, having five of them wont make a difference to the temperature of your chip. Common water-cooling to an extent is just displaced air-cooling, your still bound by ambient air temperature, the only difference is that water is a better conductor than copper heat pipes and radiators are bigger than your typical heatsink. Related to below.

On the other hand I really dont know what kind of stress a 220W chip will put on a cooling system and I am nervous that a closed loop wont be enough.

220W, thats exactly what a 220W (TDP = Thermal Design Power = rough power consumption) chip is going to put on a cooling system. If a CPU consumes 220W, your going to get a bit less than 220W of heat coming out of it.
Water-cooling radiators are tested by the wattage they can deal with at certain fan RPM's (whatever fans you use might give different results though)

 

[Karadjgne]

Just to say, when the fx9xxx first came out, it was paired with a h80i equivalent CLC as the CPU cooler, but was a little expensive. I guess to cut the costs some as ppl who buy that chip plan on OC, yada yada yada, get their own cooler like h100i etc, so the stock CLC was pointless. Now the CPU is sold w/o a cooler for almost $100 less. Point is, a 240/280mm CLC will easily handle a 220w CPU.

What I think is funny is that the fx9's are just 8320's factory OC to 5GHz, so don't expect much OC beyond that.

 

[Pcbuilder123]

Watch this, it is an fx9590 w/ NHD-14 against a 4930k with a 780ti.
The 4930k gtx780ti destroys, but still a good watch.

Teksyndicate fx9590 r9 290x build:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI_po8b2Dzw&src_vid=IgrAP2_GfOo&feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_3277975843

 

[Karadjgne]

Rather unfair test. It's not so much AMD vrs Intel, its AMD vrs nVidea, I've seen benchmarks where an r-9 270 decimated a gtx 760, and the very next test on a different game, the gtx 760 blew the doors off a r9 280x. So its not fair to say one CPU is better than the other, when the gpus are in a biased scenario to begin with.

 

[DHFF]

@Pcbuilder123: good to know about the nh-d14, di they get good results out of it?
@manofchalk: thank you for the info. An yes I realized that a 220W chip gives off 220W, its fairly self explanatory, I simply dint know how much cooling I would need to keep it tame. For example the H100i has a 240mm radiator and I was unsure if that would be enough or if a custom system with larger or more radiators would be needed. From what Pcbuiler says about Techsyndicate using an air cooler and Karadjgne's reference to the 9000 series originally coming with H80i coolers. I am confidant about an H100i being more then enough for non overclocked use of the chip.

 

[Pcbuilder123]

They used to use an h100i but it was very loud because it was mashed against the fans, so they switched over to an nh-d14. They said it is nearly silent and identical performance (1-2 degrees hotter) and infinitely quiter. Temps around 65 degrees at 5.0ghz.

 

[Karadjgne]

the stock fans on a h100i are loud either way, good rad fans, just noisy as hell. If you want quiet performance from a h100i, dump the stock fans and get a couple Noctua NF-P12 PWM (same fan used on NH-D14) or NF-F12 PWM, set the h100i to extreme, then let the mobo control the fan speeds through bios/software. I did this with my h55 and from 2 feet away my pc is so silent, the only way I know it is running is the power/hdd led's are on. My overhead fan on slow is louder than my pc during regular usage.

 

[DHFF]

Yeah The Coirsair Stock fans for the H100i are rated at almost 38dB which is pretty crazy. If I get the H100i I might yank the fans and install them in a server at work where noise is not a concern.

EDIT: In regards to the nh-d14, I thinks all things considered equal I will just go with the H100i simply because the NH-D14 is a Godzilla of a cooler. I have never used one but I have seen a few in person and the clips looks very flimsy for a cooler that weighs almost 3lbs. I think the H100i would put far less physical strain on the motherboard and its honestly not that much more.

I usually prefer air coolers but I think I just sold myself on a closed loop system.

 

[Karadjgne]

Jfyi, the NH-D14 has one of the best built, best designed and sturdiest mounting system out of all towers. I personally prefer CLC's (not a fanboy btw) but if I did have to recommend a higher potential aircooler, it would be the D14.

 

[DHFF]

Well I will take your word for it. perhaps I am missing something but from what I saw it looked like the unit was being held in with clips. I feel much more secure with units that screw in like the Hyper 212.

 

[Pcbuilder123]

Well I will take your word for it. perhaps I am missing something but from what I saw it looked like the unit was being held in with clips. I feel much more secure with units that screw in like the Hyper 212.

The nh-d14 is super, super secure Noctua also provides new clips if you upgrade to a new motherboard (to a new socket when it releases.

This is the system, it uses a back plate. Would the most respected fan/ one of the most respected air cooler manufacturers will use low quality clips? (no, lol)

 

[DHFF]

Fair enough, the back plate looks sturdy enough. I still dont know if I am brave enough to put that small tank on my motherboard I think it would also scare everyone at work as this will be for my workstation. it spooked everyone the first time they saw me installing a Hyper 212 , this ting would cause heart attacks

 

[Karadjgne]

I'm sure the first person to imagine slapping a supercharged blown big-block in a Chevy Vega had the same impression, but the results were nothing short of OMG. Once your co-workers get aload of your resulting output and temp capabilities, I think you'll have a 'cottage industry' in retro fitting their PC's with upgraded cooling solutions.

 

[Pcbuilder123]

This beast of a cooler (v8 gts) is infamous for cracking motherboards....

 

[DHFF]

Looks like you strapped a diesel engine to your motherboard

 

[Karadjgne]

Whats laughable is while the V8 is a good cooler, its not as good as some coolers 1/2 its size-weight. It comes down to a LOT of show, and not near as much go...

 

[DHFF]

There are plenty of huge and very expensive air coolers but my favorite is still the 212. with a good pair of Noctuas equipped, that thing can handle quite a lot.

 

[Karadjgne]

Yes. The 212 can handle @180w which is most CPUs @4.4-4.5GHz, although by those speeds its close to max rpm so is starting to get loud.