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Will the GTX 880 Be Announced at Gamescom?

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July 23, 2014 12:08:39 PM

I honestly think it is going to be a lot better for anyone considering an upgrade to wait until the gtx 900 series or AMD's 400 series to upgrade when they finally get a process shrink down to 20nm. Should see a pretty nice performance gain I would think
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July 23, 2014 12:26:31 PM

From what we know of Maxwell with the 750/750 Ti, there will be a solid 30% power savings, 30% improvement, or a mixture of both. Being that 28nm is most likely the silicon given TSMC's multiple delays, both venders are going to be limited on what they can do outside the scope of architecture differences.

At this point I don't even think we can expect GDDR6 which was scheduled for 2014 cards. More then anything I'd just like to see the Nvidia GPU's come off their high horse down to reasonable prices. If we get to look forward to x80 cards starting at $649 and Titan/x80 Ti's in the future messing up the pricing we're in for a rough few generations until that cash cow blows up like it has before.
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July 23, 2014 12:36:18 PM

Hopefully, the announce of GTX 880 and 870 will reduce the price of 780 ti !
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July 23, 2014 1:00:15 PM

Quote:
I honestly think it is going to be a lot better for anyone considering an upgrade to wait until the gtx 900 series or AMD's 400 series to upgrade when they finally get a process shrink down to 20nm. Should see a pretty nice performance gain I would think


You do realize that the GTX 800 series (not the laptop versions) will be 20nm right? That's the whole reason it's taken so long for the 800 series to drop, because TMSC hadn't been able to get the 20nm shrink to go as they were having problems with their manufacturing processes.
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July 23, 2014 1:32:23 PM

Quote:
Quote:
I honestly think it is going to be a lot better for anyone considering an upgrade to wait until the gtx 900 series or AMD's 400 series to upgrade when they finally get a process shrink down to 20nm. Should see a pretty nice performance gain I would think


You do realize that the GTX 800 series (not the laptop versions) will be 20nm right? That's the whole reason it's taken so long for the 800 series to drop, because TMSC hadn't been able to get the 20nm shrink to go as they were having problems with their manufacturing processes.

Given TSMC's delays regarding the 20nm process that we were told about earlier this year I would be surprised if the 800 series will be using 20nm, that being said I would be very happy if I am wrong :) 
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July 23, 2014 2:07:20 PM

Quote:
I honestly think it is going to be a lot better for anyone considering an upgrade to wait until the gtx 900 series or AMD's 400 series to upgrade when they finally get a process shrink down to 20nm. Should see a pretty nice performance gain I would think


I'm in the same boat. Although I'm not playing on ultra settings on all my games with my 5850 that I can't justify the upgrade for more FPS than can even be used by my 120Hz monitor, and still fewer FPS to get full 120FPS on the latest titles. Will definitely be a huge upgrade going from 1Gb VRam to 3+ though, thankfully I'm a (fairly) patient individual.
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July 23, 2014 2:07:57 PM

No 20 nm, no h.265, no price drop. No sale. This thing is barely faster than a 780ti. It can't do 4k, even in SLI. Power savings are great if you are trying to run without a connector in a SFF. But for your flagship?
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July 23, 2014 2:11:55 PM

20 nm is possible if this is paper launch. Full 20 nm production is supposed to roll out the next spring, so old robust 28nm is more likely used with these...
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July 23, 2014 2:33:09 PM

I'll wait for the 900 series. My GTX 680 is still running circles around every game at 1080p which is fine for me.

So far I haven't been overly impressed with the 800 series. Some better power saving features (I control it anyways) and a marginal increase in performance that does not warrant a $500+ purchase.

Sort of feels like the GPU market has stagnated as of late. Ever since the 40nm there really hasn't been a huge innovation on the architecture. The wafer price scaling gets pretty ridiculous at 20nm. We're most likely going to see some pricey 800 series.

The strangest thing is that TSMC absolutely hates 20nm. They see it as a waste of R&D for a high performance product. TBH, we're running into a bandwidth wall (4k), which the 800 series (if rumors are accurate) aren't addressing.
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July 23, 2014 2:54:08 PM

Quote:
Quote:
I honestly think it is going to be a lot better for anyone considering an upgrade to wait until the gtx 900 series or AMD's 400 series to upgrade when they finally get a process shrink down to 20nm. Should see a pretty nice performance gain I would think


You do realize that the GTX 800 series (not the laptop versions) will be 20nm right? That's the whole reason it's taken so long for the 800 series to drop, because TMSC hadn't been able to get the 20nm shrink to go as they were having problems with their manufacturing processes.

These GM204 cards, and likely most if not all of the 800 series lineup will be 28nm Maxwell. This has been pretty much confirmed by leaked specs, TSMC's continued process delays, and die shots. The images that leaked around 2 weeks ago place GM204 die area estimates at just south of GK110, so we're talking a large high-end chip at 28nm. At 20nm it should be much closer to your standard ~300mm^2 upper mid range GPU.
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July 23, 2014 3:06:13 PM

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At this point I don't even think we can expect GDDR6 which was scheduled for 2014 cards.

From what I've read it's likely GDDR5, unfortunately. I'd think that would be a major bottleneck for GM204 on a 256-bit interface, but Maxwell is much more efficient with its memory bandwidth, so it might not be that bad. The large cache certainly helps.
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July 23, 2014 3:31:47 PM

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This thing is barely faster than a 780ti. It can't do 4k, even in SLI. Power savings are great if you are trying to run without a connector in a SFF. But for your flagship?

There are so many unknowns. If this is a legit leak it's ~20% faster in 3Dmark, and of course there are the usual pre-release drivers to take into consideration, especially for a new architecture. We don't know if this is a fully enabled GM204, it could be the GTX870 for example. Also, you have to take this in context dude. If this was GM210 (or whatever it's going to be called) on 20nm then ya, that would be bad. But this is GM204 at 28nm, adjust your expectations. A 20% performance improvement over the 780ti while still on 28nm ain't bad.
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a b U Graphics card
July 23, 2014 3:33:50 PM

I miss the performance races of the 90's... those were the days kids. :) 
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July 23, 2014 3:35:11 PM

Now they need to either make this 4+Gb VRAM or a 6gb 780 ti
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a b U Graphics card
July 23, 2014 3:48:29 PM

wasnt the newest rumors/news that their planing to skip 20nm and go straight to 16/14 ones since those should be ready next year as well?
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July 23, 2014 4:31:17 PM

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Hopefully, the announce of GTX 880 and 870 will reduce the price of 780 ti !


Unlikely. All that will happen is that seller sites will be encouraged to allow their
stock of 700 series cards to dribble away before they started selling 800 models.
This happens again and again with various types of new tech product.

Ian.

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July 23, 2014 5:05:50 PM

My two 580's need an upgrade. Can't handle 2560x1440, so i hope the 800 series does come out, though i hate being the early adopter knowing a year or less the next series improved comes out. But i am in desperate need for some power and i really want to pick up a Nvidia shield tablet.
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July 23, 2014 5:28:57 PM

I'm still happy with my 780 at 1920x1200. It handles everything pretty well
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July 23, 2014 5:49:37 PM

ill upgrade again in 2 years

ddr4, pcie 4, usb 3.1, displayport 2.0, pcie ssd's... should be ideal. even then, i bet my 3570k+r9 290+16gb ddr3 will be kicking butt.
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July 23, 2014 6:01:28 PM

Quite possibly the dumbest question Tom's Hardware has ever posed to its members. Obviously the answer is a resounding no. Nvidia announces a series up to X7X (870 in this instance) and then waits to announce the flagship.

Then of course this "flagship" is merely going to be a 870 rebranded with a higher clock or memory bandwidth.

Everyone would do well to wait for the Maxwell refresh in 2016-2017
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a c 91 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
July 23, 2014 9:49:30 PM

Quote:
Quite possibly the dumbest question Tom's Hardware has ever posed to its members. Obviously the answer is a resounding no. Nvidia announces a series up to X7X (870 in this instance) and then waits to announce the flagship.

Then of course this "flagship" is merely going to be a 870 rebranded with a higher clock or memory bandwidth.

Everyone would do well to wait for the Maxwell refresh in 2016-2017


...except that that's not what they do, mate. The gtx 670 came out several months after the 680, and you can look at their history and clearly see that they lead with their flagship cards. Those are the most impressive, those are what they can advertise heavily, and those are the most complicated; thus what they want to make sure they have a stock of before release, so that they don't have huge issues with the manufacturing like they have before.
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July 24, 2014 2:07:53 AM

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No 20 nm, no h.265, no price drop. No sale. This thing is barely faster than a 780ti. It can't do 4k, even in SLI. Power savings are great if you are trying to run without a connector in a SFF. But for your flagship?


I beg to differ, I am running 4k right now no problem with 2x780(non ti) cards in sli, Pretty sure 800 series wont be any worse, Even if these are just the midrange cards it will still be better. I think it will be like this, First will be 28nm 880 cards which will be small die and marketed as high end like 680, Then you will have 980 next year on 20nm, Few months later there will be a 980ti card. The 980ti card will be the one to get.
Hopefully I am completely wrong and the 880GTX will be awesome so I can upgrade, Really could use some more Vram on stock cards for 4k Nvidia!
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July 24, 2014 3:32:45 AM

giovanni86 said:
My two 580's need an upgrade. Can't handle 2560x1440, so i hope the 800 series does come out, though i hate being the early adopter knowing a year or less the next series improved comes out. ...


Are your cards 1.5GB models? That would indeed suffer somewhat at 1440. Two 3GB 580s isn't too bad,
but certainly newer cards have more oomph. I've been accumulating benchmark data, so if it's of any help
when checking reviews, note that two 580s is a hefty bit better than a single 7970 at 1440.

Ian.

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July 24, 2014 11:03:30 AM

mapesdhs said:
giovanni86 said:
My two 580's need an upgrade. Can't handle 2560x1440, so i hope the 800 series does come out, though i hate being the early adopter knowing a year or less the next series improved comes out. ...


Are your cards 1.5GB models? That would indeed suffer somewhat at 1440. Two 3GB 580s isn't too bad,
but certainly newer cards have more oomph. I've been accumulating benchmark data, so if it's of any help
when checking reviews, note that two 580s is a hefty bit better than a single 7970 at 1440.

Ian.



I dont have much experience with SLI/Xfire, but from what I gather the vram doesn't stack between cards only the processing power. Please correct me if I'm wrong as I'm curious.
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a c 91 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
July 24, 2014 12:12:15 PM

childofthekorn said:
I dont have much experience with SLI/Xfire, but from what I gather the vram doesn't stack between cards only the processing power. Please correct me if I'm wrong as I'm curious.


That is correct.

However, with the more powerful cards, there are usually two versions sold - the normal cards and cards with double the VRAM. For the GTX 580, 1.5GB was the standard amount, but if you ponied up another $50 or so, you could get cards with 3GB.

The reason that mapesdhs was asking this was because the amount of VRAM you have, while it doesn't matter much at 1080p (Even 1GB is enough for most games on max), at 1440p, 2GB is the bare minimum and more than that is recommended.
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July 24, 2014 12:28:48 PM

DarkSable said:
childofthekorn said:
I dont have much experience with SLI/Xfire, but from what I gather the vram doesn't stack between cards only the processing power. Please correct me if I'm wrong as I'm curious.


That is correct.

However, with the more powerful cards, there are usually two versions sold - the normal cards and cards with double the VRAM. For the GTX 580, 1.5GB was the standard amount, but if you ponied up another $50 or so, you could get cards with 3GB.

The reason that mapesdhs was asking this was because the amount of VRAM you have, while it doesn't matter much at 1080p (Even 1GB is enough for most games on max), at 1440p, 2GB is the bare minimum and more than that is recommended.


From my quick google searches after my initial questions I looks like the extra vram models were released specifically for SLI/Xfire, which I find interesting.

Also just to put in perspective anyone else that may not know it looks as though until Heterogeneous Unified Memory Access (will allow for each card to manage the others, while in SLI/XFire, memory controller allowing VRam to stack) is perfected for VRam the memory is currently used in a mirror setting (each card loads the same information to its own VRam [Raid 1 esque]) but the GPU's render frames ahead of each other.

I'm definitely interested in going Xfire once its time to upgrade is ready now that I have a better understanding of it. Especially since the stuttering effects with AMD, and the lack of a Xfire bridge, have been figured out for the most part.

Good info on the 1440P VRam requirements.
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July 24, 2014 1:05:08 PM

DarkSable said:
The reason that mapesdhs was asking this was because the amount of VRAM you have, while it doesn't matter much at 1080p (Even 1GB is enough for most games on max), at 1440p, 2GB is the bare minimum and more than that is recommended.


Yes, spot on, though older games still run fine at 1440 with 1.5GB, it varies. Mind you, with the custom
settings I use for Crysis, even 1.5GB wasn't enough at 1920x1200. See my data.


childofthekorn said:
From my quick google searches after my initial questions I looks like the extra vram models were released specifically for SLI/Xfire, which I find interesting. ...


Hmm, not so sure about that.. often it was a marketing thing, almost like the way we have 4GB 760s,
but in SLI two of them wouldn't be quick enough to run heavy stuff at 4K anyway. However, it does help
even at 1080 in some titles. Crysis by default is pretty ok with 1.5GB, but I use custom settings to
shove the draw distances waaaay back, increase texture details, all sorts of things. As a result, two
580 3GB SLI gets shoved down to around 45 fps avg. :D  This is with a 5GHz 2700K btw, so no CPU
bottleneck (ASUS M4E, 16GB @ 2133).

Same thing happens with Stalker; the Stalker COP benchmark gives about 200fps avg for two 580 SLI
(half that for the SUN test; AMD cards are stronger for the SUN test), but with the settings I use I get
more like 60 avg, though I'm using Stalker SHOC so maybe that makes a difference, not sure.


childofthekorn said:
VRam to stack) is perfected for VRam the memory is currently used in a mirror setting (each card loads the same information to its own VRam [Raid 1 esque]) ...


Yup, the usual method - SGI was doing this sort of thing twenty years ago with MaxIMPACT graphics. :D 
Same data sent to both texture engines. Indeed, RE gfx from some years earlier works in the same way -
texture memory doesn't get combined with multiple RM boards (though VRAM does in that tech).

I've been obtaining lots of 3GB 580s though because they're really good for After Effects CUDA stuff. I've
bought about 11 of them in the last year (four 580s is quicker than two Titan Blacks for CUDA in AE).
Here's my whacko AE research rig.

Ian.


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July 24, 2014 1:16:45 PM

I'm still on a 6590 2Gig and i was starting to resign myself to a 280x to try and ride out another generations of graphics but if I can get my hands on a 4gig GTX880 before the Holidays I may just skip the 280x and wait for it. I was really getting annoyed having to choose between overpriced re-hashes of older-gen tech (kepler) or too-damn-hot current-gen (thanks hawaii) chips. a 120-180w loaded maxwell part feels like just the ticket to me.
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July 24, 2014 1:44:52 PM


I read today that the 280X is basically the same as the 7970 GHz edition. If so then the 280X isn't really
that much of a kick up the scale. Need to find a review, check on this...

Ian.

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July 24, 2014 4:39:53 PM

yeah but I'm on a 6950, so, 2 generations old now. I'm on the strange QXVGA res 23" Samsung (2048x1152) monitor so slightly above 1080p res. depending on the game and detail levels It'll drop down into the 20s for things like Guildwars2. it's not bad per se but this is on a Q9950 so i had been gearing up for a Devil's Canyon build with a Hawaii card. Given the how sensitive this generation of GPU's been with memory, heat, and power consumption and that I don't have the extra cash to just pony up for a 780 my choices are in a state where i can either get a refinement of the 79xx series or have to wait things out on a Kepler card. i really like the 750Ti but if I'm putting down money I won't be satisfied with just that level of performance, and I'm just not all that warm to the 760...
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July 24, 2014 9:12:50 PM

One extra data point for you: I won my 2nd GHz edition 7970 3GB today for 136 UKP total (see
item 261539415998 on ebay.co.uk); there are plenty on eBay for good prices, both BIN and
normal auction. Two 7970s in CF would be pretty potent all things considered; check CF results
for the 280X to compare. More power hungry I expect than a 780 or whatever, but a hefty
upfront cost saving given the performance potential (should be quicker than a 780 Ti). Personally
I prefer NVIDIA, but thought I'd mention the idea just in case.

Ian.

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a c 91 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
July 24, 2014 9:39:21 PM

mapesdhs said:
[...] More power hungry I expect than a 780 or whatever, but a hefty
upfront cost saving given the performance potential (should be quicker than a 780 Ti). Personally
I prefer NVIDIA, but thought I'd mention the idea just in case.


Erm... just to check, you're saying that two 7970 GHz editions are faster than a 780 Ti, right? Not that a single one of them is? :p 
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July 25, 2014 1:57:33 AM

Correct! 8)

I was sure 7970 CF would be faster than a normal 780 (because I already know that my two
832MHz 580s are quicker than a 780), but I checked toms' charts yesterday to be certain.

Quite easy to confirm really, just look at where the GHz 7990 sits in the charts.

Ian.

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July 25, 2014 10:12:26 AM

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Hopefully, the announce of GTX 880 and 870 will reduce the price of 780 ti !


Not going to happen if they follow what happened to the 670s and 680s after the intro of the 770s and 780s. Prices didn't drop hardly at all and people who needed an upgrade naturally went for the 770 when the 680 was nearly the same price. Instead retailers like New Egg just let their inventory of their 670s/680s dwindle down, mostly from people looking to get a second of those cards for SLI. I badly need to upgrade my 680 since moving to 1440p and will definitely be getting the 8-series this time around.
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July 25, 2014 11:49:25 AM

Not seeing any PC-only AAA titles being announced recently, and with the current console gen being as weak as they are, I see no reason to upgrade for the next few years.
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July 25, 2014 12:28:48 PM

Chris Droste said:
I'm still on a 6590 2Gig and i was starting to resign myself to a 280x to try and ride out another generations of graphics but if I can get my hands on a 4gig GTX880 before the Holidays I may just skip the 280x and wait for it. I was really getting annoyed having to choose between overpriced re-hashes of older-gen tech (kepler) or too-damn-hot current-gen (thanks hawaii) chips. a 120-180w loaded maxwell part feels like just the ticket to me.


AMD just announced their next gen GPU's will be 20nm in 2015. Should have a pretty good effect on heat. Make sure to get a non-reference AMD card as they typically have far better cooling than the reference models. Had to slap an aftermarket cooler on my HD 5850 which took care of all my heat issues.
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July 25, 2014 12:32:21 PM

Bloob said:
Not seeing any PC-only AAA titles being announced recently, and with the current console gen being as weak as they are, I see no reason to upgrade for the next few years.


Partially true. However, considering some titles from the last gen consoles being able to scale up in quality as much as they could I can't wait to see what we get with the current gen.
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