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Would I close my account?

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July 29, 2014 7:05:08 PM

I only participate in a single thread currently and I am considering to close my account. I believed that toms has specific rules such as "Harassment, threatening, embarrassing or insulting other users, including sending unwanted messages, attacking race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, etc." and that if one do happen to stumble upon bullying or mistreatment of a user here on Tom's, reporting to a moderator would solve the problem. I was wrong.

The problems started time ago when I made a set of specific predictions about forthcoming hardware and they were confirmed. Then all the four/five people who then said that I would be wrong started to attack me. The attack didn't stop here. One of my articles was published in a famous site and then they started attacking the site claiming that it would lost all credibility and similar nasty stuff. It didn't stop here, some of them sometimes wrote attacks to my country.

I solicited help to a moderator. He participated in the thread during some weeks, warned people in public to not attack me, and baned some people who ignored his warns. But after he is gone, things are going to poor.

There is also a tendency to mention me by my name instead of using my nickname. But if I mention someone by his name instead his nickname, my post is deleted from the thread.

However, recently things are arriving to a point of no return. It seems like if my comments in the thread can be grossly misinterpreted, modified, and ignored by the same four/five people of always and I am supposed to remain quiet. If I report trolling, harassment, insults... my reports are lost, nothing happen, and the posts with the material remain archived. If I ignore the continuous provocations, I continue being mentioned, attacked, and insulted. If I reply I am warned.

Recently one poster decided to insult me during a dozen of posts calling me liar. My patience was over and I replied him. Consequence? One moderator that participates in the thread wrote a weak public warning (something as "stop fighting Juan" or so), I was given a private warning plus vacations to calm down, and the posts with the insults remain archived.

After a week the same guy starts mentioning me again, despite I didn't mention him. He does in a reply to another poster:

Quote:
oh, you mean juan? he's parroting some s/a articles from before. and i've verified several times in this thread how he lies. his claims(which are actually blanket statements devoid of any specifics) are of no concern to me. this is why the reply was directed towards you.


A moderator is participating in the thread. He didn't considered to delete his message, to edit it to eliminate the personal remarks or to write a public warning. I replied that post with

Quote:
I find funny that you accuse others of parroting, when your main activity in this thread consists on copy/pasting new links. The only thing you have verified is that you call liars to people whose arguments you are unable to grasp, but others can understand easily.


and minutes after the same moderator sent me a private PM with a warning.

Of course, several people has helped me during the whole thread. They have reported in public the insults, have reported how my posts are misinterpreted and have reacted to unfair accusations defending me. But they cannot be doing it each week. I have been also discussing this off-topic with some people participating in the thread. This is an example of a PM that I received:

Quote:
I think your speculation/predictions are more accurate and have more base than most posting in that thread, the way some talk to you in general is just wrong imo, eg the misquotes and taking what you say out of context. At first I thought it was the language barrier but its not, I understand your English perfect, I think 'those guys' are just afraid of change, you predict change, your not saying what they want to hear and deep down they know that you're probably right. I enjoy your posts keep posting.


What to do? Ignoring posts doesn't work, because my silence is taken as an empty check to post anything about me. Reporting posts doesn't work, because my reports are ignored and the posts remain. Replying posts results on warnings and vacations. I guess the only choice is to canceling my account and continue posting in the other forums where I participate and this problem doesn't exist.

More about : close account

July 30, 2014 12:15:35 AM

You don't link to a specific thread "some time ago" so it's hard to trace where the comments emanated. However, I've read some threads in which you participated recently and they seem to be to be fairly well-argued on both sides. I think there is a a point at which an argument has to die with both sides agreeing to differ. Many arguments will simply never be won or lost.

You seem to be a balanced poster with a high degree of knowledge and it would be a shame if you left but at the end of the day, only you can choose. You say this happens to you elsewhere as well so it isn't a Tom's thing so why leave Tom's?

If you'd rather take this up with my further, I'm open to PMs so link me to specific threads and I'll take a decision on whether or not to moderate them. That said, I think it would be hard to decide who is right or wrong because technical debates are usually a mixture of both.

Putting yourself up on the Net will always come with risks and we all have to decide to accept those risks or keep ourselves in isolation. Most of us prefer to take our chance3s rather than remain alone and unheard.
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July 30, 2014 1:48:42 AM

First all, thanks by kind reply. My last participation is here

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/352312-28-steamroll...

I only have problems with toms. I don't have problems in other forums where I use same nickname.

About considering to abandon this site, this is one of the PMs I received:

Quote:
I'll hate to see you go just as the plans for desktop Carrizo. Others can't seem to grasp that your focus is on *future* technologies. In 5 or so years, when 90+ % of consumers are satisfied with integrated graphics and Nvidia/Intel/AMD's exascale compute solutions have materialized, the guys in the forums will still try to find a way to rationalize their failed predictions. I continue to contribute at [...] but now there will be one less voice to educate others about the future of systems integration. Let me know if you ever decide to return.


This is another answer:

Quote:
That **** really sucks... rather than arguing with them just post info, ignore them.

Most of them dont know sh**.


And so on.

The problem that I find to continue here is not the lack of agreement with some people. I can live with people disagreeing with me. What I am worried is why some people is allowed to insult and attack me, whereas I am warned when I defend my honor.

Take the next example

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/352312-28-steamroll...

A guy is allowed to call me a parrot and a liar in his response to another poster! He has dozen of posts as that and I am tired of reporting posts as that and see that nothing happens.

The moderator participating in the thread does nothing, he didn't warn that guy in public by calling me a liar again, he didn't edit the post and didn't eliminate the personal remarks... I was waiting and nothing happened. Then I decided to defend my honor

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/352312-28-steamroll...

and, minutes after, I received a PM from the same moderator with the next title "You never learn" and the next text:

Quote:
This is my last and final warning. Cease flame bating and being combative. Your turning out exactly like Haifjur with the excessive trolling and combativeness.


Thus I would know why I am warned by defending my honor. Why my reports of trolling, misquoting, flamebait, insults, lies... are ignored. And why the posts are not deleted or edited. I would like to know if I am supposed to join toms to be insulted and attacked virtually each week. I would also like to know why my posts in

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/352312-28-steamroll...

are considering "trolling" and "flame bating".
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July 30, 2014 1:55:43 AM

Moderation is not an exact science and thirty some Mods will differ in thirty some ways. Some may prefer Intel over AMD and others won't - personally I don't care on way or the other. So-called fanbois and girls will always press their case for supremacy.

Roosevelt (I think) said "if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen" - sorry to sound harsh but it's reality, particularly on the Net where folks can hide behind anonymity.
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July 30, 2014 2:05:31 AM

I don't have access to the PMs, but I would guess that the others would have also gotten similar warnings.
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July 30, 2014 2:58:48 AM

Thanks by answers. I can stand the heat. But I wonder why only I would do it.

Maybe they got a warning, but a pair of minutes ago the same stuff starts again

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/352312-28-steamroll...

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/352312-28-steamroll...

The problem is not that this guy has ignored the 90% of my previous post, including my technical explanation about integrating an 295X.

The problem is not that I would repeat the numbers again and show him how a 295x2 would occupy only ~200nm2 at 14nm and about ~100nm2 at 10nm.

The problem is not that he repeats again his misunderstanding about the Kaveri vs 2500k (a misunderstanding that I corrected dozens of times).

The problem is that he is allowed to use words as "silly" and that he mentions me by my real name, instead my nickname. If I were to answer him in similar terms saying that his new post is "silly" because ignored my arguments then probably I would be given vacations or banned forever by "being combative".

UPDATE: http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/352312-28-steamroll...

Why do I have to accept this perennial misunderstanding/misquoting of what I really said? I never said that Kaveri would be "on pair". Not only that but my predictions about Kaveri were verified up to the single digit percent.
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July 30, 2014 3:13:34 AM

Using your real name isn't usually considered an issue if it's given in your screen name - plenty of names get shortened, and the first name is an obvious choice.

A few things I would note:
  • Attack the argument, not the poster.
  • Don't worry about defending your honour. People will read your posts and agree or disagree. If the arguments against them are poorly worded and clearly flawed, don't dignify them with a response.

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    July 30, 2014 3:25:49 AM

    I corrected the misunderstanding about Kaveri vs 2500k dozen of times. This was the last time

    http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/352312-28-steamroll...

    As shown there my predictions about Kaveri were verified within the single digit percent error. My original article was published here

    http://www.brightsideofnews.com/2013/11/04/what-to-expe...

    It is not a problem of language

    Quote:
    I think your speculation/predictions are more accurate and have more base than most posting in that thread, the way some talk to you in general is just wrong imo, eg the misquotes and taking what you say out of context. At first I thought it was the language barrier but its not, I understand your English perfect, I think 'those guys' are just afraid of change, you predict change, your not saying what they want to hear and deep down they know that you're probably right. I enjoy your posts keep posting.



    Moreover I have given graphs such as



    I would like to know why my words are changed or quoted out of context, why my explanations and corrections ignored, and then the thread is used either to insult me or to attack my "credibility" and claim that I "lost sanity". I would like to know why moderator in that thread allows all this nasty behavior.
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    July 30, 2014 9:17:23 AM

    Upon cursory review, you may be taking statements a little too toughly. The use of "silly" was in reference to a debate point, not an individual. Personal insults are not permitted on Tom's Hardware, but cogent points of argument are subject to opinion, attack and support. Regarding the individual who asserted you were a liar, in the future, I would simply report that individual to a Moderator. It borders on the personal insult/attack, and would constitute a warning.

    -JP
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    July 30, 2014 11:24:32 AM

    My use of "silly" was also aimed to a debate point not an individual. My exact words were:

    Quote:
    only your comment was "silly", first because the FPU was integrated in the CPU despite being a big chip by the standards of the epoch <img>and, second, because at 14nm there is enough space for including a R9 290X on a small die APU. At 10nm there is double of that space.


    My point was why can he consider that my point is silly, but when I do consider that his point is silly I am warned by "fighting"?

    The same user has been insulting me and calling me liar during weeks, has insulted me again minutes ago

    http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/352312-28-steamroll...

    If ignore him he mentions me. If I report his multiple posts to mods nothing happens and he continues calling me liar again and again. If I reply him then I am warned by being "combative" and I am giving vacations to calm down.

    I will ask once again, why I cannot defend myself from such accusations? Why I am suggested to remain quiet whereas four individuals are allowed freedom of post against me? Why moderators actively participating in the thread allow this nasty behavior?
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    July 30, 2014 1:04:20 PM

    The person who insutl me has just added:

    Quote:
    however, if i am indeed mistaken about your lying, my sincere apology is ready the moment my accusations get refuted.


    Thus, He accuses me. Then I have to prove the accusation is wrong and then he will apologize. LOL What happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?
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    July 30, 2014 2:21:26 PM

    juanrga said:
    What happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?


    That'll be a court of law not the internet, we can't control opinions.
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    July 31, 2014 2:01:08 AM

    There are laws against cyberstalking and cyberbullying.
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    July 31, 2014 2:14:22 AM

    Which are, of course, unenforceable.

    I also would say that we haven't gotten as far as that; they're posting in a thread that plenty of other users are in. Unless you have PMs?

    As for bullying... no threats beyond saying that you're incorrect and will lose your reputation.
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    August 14, 2014 4:50:20 AM

    Sorry I missed this.

    juan I stopped moderating in that thread quite a while back.

    You could have mentioned me by name and I would not have minded.

    Sorry mate but I stopped moderating that thread as I had limited time here and increased work commitments.

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    August 14, 2014 11:15:38 AM

    Hi Reynold, no problem. I understand that moderation is made by volunteers with a real life. That is why I rejected the kindly offering from Saga Lout above. I abandoned the thread for weeks, but the same 'people' continued mentioning me in their posts. After several PM with friends I decided to return to the thread. I have made an ignore list now and avoid any post from that 'people' including those posts addressed to me or those posts where I am mentioned. Problem solved!

    Thank you and others in this thread.
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    August 14, 2014 4:27:22 PM

    Just post your stuff and be polite to others.

    If some tool gives you grief report them and the team will act accordingly.

    :) 
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    October 7, 2014 7:04:01 PM

    Ok, I finally got it. Professional trolls are being rewarded. No surprised that the more technically knowledgeable posters have been abandoning the thread during last year, whereas posters who cannot compute the % error for theoretical 6000 and measured 5681 continue posting nonsense.

    I will leave my account open for answering PMs from friends but I will stop from posting regularly in the forums.
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    !