Why Can't TiVo Fix This Bug?

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

So I have a season pass for a program. Because it sometimes runs over
(even though the schedule doesn't say so), I extend the recording by 2
minutes. One week there are two episodes scheduled back to back. TiVo
says it can't record the second one, because it conflicts with the first
episode.

Why can't TiVo recognize that the two shows are on the same channel and
record both? It doesn't seem that it would be too much trouble to check
when there is a conflict to see if the two shows are on the same channel.

--
Hank Gillette
18 answers Last reply
More about tivo fix bug
  1. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    Hank,

    I'm guessing that they haven't thought about the problem. It seems
    like the solution you offer would indeed be easily implementable.
    Might I suggest that you contact Tivo support and ask them to include
    this fix on a future release?

    There will be some conflict as to where the second recording will
    begin. You might end up with the start of the second episode on the
    end of the first episode's recording -- still better than missing your
    show entirely, eh?

    -Steve

    Hank Gillette wrote:
    > So I have a season pass for a program. Because it sometimes runs over

    > (even though the schedule doesn't say so), I extend the recording by
    2
    > minutes. One week there are two episodes scheduled back to back. TiVo

    > says it can't record the second one, because it conflicts with the
    first
    > episode.
    >
    > Why can't TiVo recognize that the two shows are on the same channel
    and
    > record both? It doesn't seem that it would be too much trouble to
    check
    > when there is a conflict to see if the two shows are on the same
    channel.
    >
    > --
    > Hank Gillette
  2. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    >I'm guessing that they haven't thought about the problem. It seems
    >like the solution you offer would indeed be easily implementable.
    >Might I suggest that you contact Tivo support and ask them to include
    >this fix on a future release?
    >
    >There will be some conflict as to where the second recording will
    >begin. You might end up with the start of the second episode on the
    >end of the first episode's recording -- still better than missing your
    >show entirely, eh?

    My manual fix for this situation is to go edit the individual
    recordings and change the padding on the end of the first show and
    the beginning of the second to zero so they no longer conflict. I
    recommend this as a "best guess" solution for an automatic conflict
    resolution strategy.

    Yes, you WILL (and I have) ended up with the start of the second
    episode on the end of the first recording, or the end of the first
    on the beginning of the second. Even if the TiVo keeps perfect
    time, the broadcasters don't. Generally, though, if you could only
    adjust the division points by integral minutes, this is the best
    you could do, and another field for adjusting this doesn't seem
    worth it.

    I believe you lose about 3 seconds of recording when it switches
    shows. This is not usually a practical problem.

    Gordon L. Burditt
  3. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    On 2005-05-16, levis501@yahoo.com <levis501@yahoo.com> wrote:
    > Hank,
    >
    > I'm guessing that they haven't thought about the problem. It seems
    > like the solution you offer would indeed be easily implementable.
    > Might I suggest that you contact Tivo support and ask them to include
    > this fix on a future release?
    >
    > There will be some conflict as to where the second recording will
    > begin. You might end up with the start of the second episode on the
    > end of the first episode's recording -- still better than missing your
    > show entirely, eh?

    Ideally, the TiVo would be smart enough and advanced enough to take the
    two minute overlap of the two shows and put it in both shows.

    Have the first show be 62 minutes and the second show be 60 minutes with
    the last two of the first and the first two of the second containing the
    same contect. Just duplicate it in both recordings.
  4. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    "Hank Gillette" <hankgillette@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:hankgillette-4B9F4A.23043515052005@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
    > So I have a season pass for a program. Because it sometimes runs over
    > (even though the schedule doesn't say so), I extend the recording by 2
    > minutes. One week there are two episodes scheduled back to back. TiVo
    > says it can't record the second one, because it conflicts with the first
    > episode.
    >
    > Why can't TiVo recognize that the two shows are on the same channel and
    > record both? It doesn't seem that it would be too much trouble to check
    > when there is a conflict to see if the two shows are on the same channel.
    >
    > --
    > Hank Gillette

    Sometimes networks change shows at the last minute, literally.

    The easiest way is to use the manual setting for recording (setting your own
    dates/times).

    A year or so ago (MUCH less now) NBC was horrible at scheduling shows, I
    don't know if it was to prevent people from recording shows by making start
    and end times at odd times or just poor planning (my guess is the former).
    You'd get a show starting at 8pm like every other network but ending at,
    like, 8:28pm or 8:33pm which then throws off the entire rest of the night's
    times. So if you wanted to record Scrubs, for example, it was usually
    scheduled for 9pm-9:30pm but winds up being 9:03pm-9:42pm so you'd get a
    recording of the last 3 minutes of Will & Grace and miss the last 12 minutes
    of Scrubs. TiVo would try to compensate but more often than not you'd still
    get screwed by NBC and not get a whole episode.

    So I started setting recordings manually for some shows/networks, padding 5
    minutes on each side to be absolutely sure I got everything I wanted.
  5. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    In article <1116220012.046604.184160@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
    levis501@yahoo.com wrote:

    > There will be some conflict as to where the second recording will
    > begin. You might end up with the start of the second episode on the
    > end of the first episode's recording -- still better than missing your
    > show entirely, eh?
    >

    Yeah, but I don't care about that. The only reason for padding is to
    make sure that I get the whole program.

    --
    Hank Gillette
  6. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    In article <118gc7348eqev4e@corp.supernews.com>,
    gordonb.swp7a@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) wrote:

    > My manual fix for this situation is to go edit the individual
    > recordings and change the padding on the end of the first show and
    > the beginning of the second to zero so they no longer conflict.

    I do something like that if I catch it. The problem is that since TiVo
    normally gets the shows I want to watch, I may not catch it in time.
    Recently, Joey, which I've been padding a couple of minutes, ran two
    shows back to back. If I hadn't caught it in time, I would have missed
    the season finale.

    The fact is, even if the times of two scheduled shows overlap, if they
    are on the same channel, there is not a conflict. For that matter, if
    two shows overlap by one minute on different channels, it would still be
    preferable for TiVo to record as much of the second show as it can. To
    simply refuse to record the second show with no notification (without
    going into the To Do list or examining the season passes) defeats some
    of the advantages of TiVo: to be able to record my shows without having
    to pore through the TV listings. This should at least be an option for
    the user. I would find it much more useful that some of the other
    enhancements they've been adding.

    --
    Hank Gillette
  7. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    On Mon, 16 May 2005 06:55:27 -0000, Mike Hunt <in2sheep@yahoo.com>
    wrote:


    >
    >Ideally, the TiVo would be smart enough and advanced enough to take the
    >two minute overlap of the two shows and put it in both shows.
    >

    Yes.

    The only way Mike Ramseay could make that happen was to partner with
    the Comcast developers. Unfortunatley, you're stuck with archaic
    software until the Tivo developers are trained by the Comcast people.

    In the meantime you could go to a cable DVR. The 2 tuner models that
    have been out forever handle this situation fine.

    Sean
  8. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    Hank Gillette <hankgillette@yahoo.com> wrote:

    > So I have a season pass for a program. Because it sometimes runs over
    >(even though the schedule doesn't say so), I extend the recording by 2
    >minutes. One week there are two episodes scheduled back to back. TiVo
    >says it can't record the second one, because it conflicts with the first
    >episode.


    People have been complaining about this since the beginning. It would
    be SO easy to ignore padding when the next show is on the same
    channel. Also, it could make a best guess at when to split the
    shows, such as when video goes to black just before commercial. If it
    doesn't, then just record the first show to the end of the padding
    interval, then start recording the second one.

    I wish they'd spend some time fixing bugs like this instead of adding
    useless features like TivoToGo.


    To reply, please remove one letter from each side of "@"
    Spammers are VERMIN. Please kill them all.
  9. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    On 2005-05-16, Hank Gillette <hankgillette@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >
    > The fact is, even if the times of two scheduled shows overlap, if they
    > are on the same channel, there is not a conflict. For that matter, if
    > two shows overlap by one minute on different channels, it would still be
    > preferable for TiVo to record as much of the second show as it can.

    Having an option would be nice. I had this same thought when I was
    recording the Olympics. There would be like a 6-hour show and a 4-hour
    show which overlapped by 1 hour. So I would have to decide which one to
    record whereas ideally, it would just tape as much of the lower priority
    one as it could.

    For those that didn't watch (or don't remember), the Olympic coverage was
    on a handful of channels and each segment typically had dozens of
    different sports featured in it, at no particular time in the segment. So
    in a 4-hour show, the sports you care about could be at the beginning or
    end, but they probably only took 10-30 minutes of the block. Because of
    this, I needed to record as much of the block as possible to catch what I
    wanted to watch.

    --
    This is my .sig
  10. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    On 2005-05-16, Sean <none> wrote:
    > On Mon, 16 May 2005 06:55:27 -0000, Mike Hunt <in2sheep@yahoo.com>
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    >>
    >>Ideally, the TiVo would be smart enough and advanced enough to take the
    >>two minute overlap of the two shows and put it in both shows.
    >>
    >
    > The only way Mike Ramseay could make that happen was to partner with
    > the Comcast developers. Unfortunatley, you're stuck with archaic
    > software until the Tivo developers are trained by the Comcast people.

    TiVo already has the capability to record two things at once. That is NOT
    what we are talking about. So you're stuck with the archaic software
    until TiVo can help Comcast out of the hole they dug themselves into.

    > In the meantime you could go to a cable DVR. The 2 tuner models that
    > have been out forever handle this situation fine.

    The 2 "tuner" TiVo works fine too, but that's not what we're talking
    about.

    Fine, I'll give you an example since you appear to need help.

    Tuner 1: recording show A from 8-10PM
    Tuner 2: recording show B from 8:00-9:01PM

    Problem: wanting to record lower priority show C from 9:00-10:00PM

    (You'll notice Tuner 1 is busy and does not factor into this discussion)

    Now, there are four options from here:

    1) If show B and show C are on the same channel, TiVo could record show C
    from 9:01-10:00PM since you will have the first minute at the end of show
    B

    2) If show B and show C are on the same channel, TiVo ideally would record
    the 9:00-9:01 segment and put it in both show B AND show C

    3) If show B and show C are on different channels, TiVo could record show
    C from 9:01-10:00PM and just have you miss the 9:00-9:01 data

    4) If show B and show C are on different channels, TiVo could not record
    all of show C

    Now, TiVo currently does #4. The OP asked about #1. I expanded that idea
    to #2 along with wanting an option for #3. Comcast does not have anything
    that can handle this any better than TiVo.

    --
    This is my .sig
  11. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    > 1) If show B and show C are on the same channel, TiVo could record show C
    > from 9:01-10:00PM since you will have the first minute at the end of show
    > B

    I think that's doable, and most people could live with it. I did notice
    that this past Sunday, my Tivo recorded both 1/2 hour Simpson finale
    episodes as one 1 hour segment, which surprised me.

    > 2) If show B and show C are on the same channel, TiVo ideally would record
    > the 9:00-9:01 segment and put it in both show B AND show C

    That sounds logically possible, but is probably difficult practically.
    First, you will only be able to record that segment once since you have
    only one tuner available. Second, you can't just tack a copy of it onto
    the second recording because of the way MPEG2 is compressed and encoded
    (doesn't the compressed content at any one point depend on the
    information preceding it?). Plus it would have to do this in real time,
    since you may start watching the show at *any* point, including while it
    is recording in the overlapping segment. I think you're best avoiding
    this altogether.

    > 3) If show B and show C are on different channels, TiVo could record show
    > C from 9:01-10:00PM and just have you miss the 9:00-9:01 data

    Well, you'd have to come up with some logic as to how much of a show
    could be missed and still recorded. There would be little point in
    recording show C if show B ran over 50 minutes (like say a Football
    game). But I'd say it's feasible.


    > Now, TiVo currently does #4. The OP asked about #1. I expanded that idea
    > to #2 along with wanting an option for #3. Comcast does not have anything
    > that can handle this any better than TiVo.

    It may be that Tivo doesn't believe the situation comes up that often,
    or that they're waiting for their next series recorder to add it.
    However, it would be a nice feature to have.

    Randy S.
  12. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    "Randy S." <rswittNO@SPAMgmail.com> wrote in news:d6arnp$1gj4$1
    @spnode25.nerdc.ufl.edu:

    > I think that's doable, and most people could live with it. I did notice
    > that this past Sunday, my Tivo recorded both 1/2 hour Simpson finale
    > episodes as one 1 hour segment, which surprised me.

    I don't know exactly when it 'clicked over', but I do know that for a time
    before Sunday, it was listed as two different episodes. I did not notice
    the change until I went to watch later and saw only one listing for The
    Simpsons. The exact same thing happened last Thursday with Joey...two
    distinct episodes, and then at some point the guide merged them into one.

    I wonder if the networks are going to stop being dicks about the schedules,
    or if TiVo finally got tired of the insults directed at them due to the
    stupidity of the networks and made the change on their end.

    > It may be that Tivo doesn't believe the situation comes up that often,
    > or that they're waiting for their next series recorder to add it.
    > However, it would be a nice feature to have.

    After some time of being pissed at being an abandoned Series 1 owner, I
    finally caved and bought a Series 2.

    So expect the Series 3 next month.

    --
    Minister of All Things Digital & Electronic, and Holder of Past Knowledge
    stile99@email.com. Cabal# 24601-fnord | Sleep is irrelevant.
    I speak for no one but myself, and |Caffeine will be assimilated.
    no one else speaks for me. O- | Decaf is futile.
  13. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    "RobMac" <rpmccartney@gmail.com> wrote in message
    news:U92dnb0CO-pLGBXfRVn-gg@comcast.com...
    >
    > A year or so ago (MUCH less now) NBC was horrible at scheduling shows, I
    > don't know if it was to prevent people from recording shows by making
    > start and end times at odd times or just poor planning (my guess is the
    > former).

    Mostly to fit extra commercials into the higher rated shows. Those 30
    second spots go for more $$$ than the same 30 second spot in a lower rated
    show.
  14. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    Randy S. wrote:
    > Second, you can't just tack a copy of it onto
    > the second recording because of the way MPEG2 is compressed and encoded
    > (doesn't the compressed content at any one point depend on the
    > information preceding it?).

    Nope. MPEG video consists of I-frames, B-frames, and P-frames.
    Since only partial information is stored in the B-frames and P-frames,
    they do depend on what preceded them. But I-frames are independent
    JPEG-like images. An MPEG stream can be cleanly split on an I-frame
    boundary with no further processing. Such edit points occur every
    few seconds or so.
    -Joe
  15. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    Joe Smith wrote:
    > Randy S. wrote:
    >
    >> Second, you can't just tack a copy of it onto the second recording
    >> because of the way MPEG2 is compressed and encoded (doesn't the
    >> compressed content at any one point depend on the information
    >> preceding it?).
    >
    >
    > Nope. MPEG video consists of I-frames, B-frames, and P-frames.
    > Since only partial information is stored in the B-frames and P-frames,
    > they do depend on what preceded them. But I-frames are independent
    > JPEG-like images. An MPEG stream can be cleanly split on an I-frame
    > boundary with no further processing. Such edit points occur every
    > few seconds or so.
    > -Joe

    Ok, thanks Joe, I'm not totally up on the specifics of MPEG2, though I
    have some idea about video compression in general. Thanks for being
    specific.

    Randy S.
  16. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    > A year or so ago (MUCH less now) NBC was horrible at scheduling shows, I
    > don't know if it was to prevent people from recording shows by making
    start
    > and end times at odd times or just poor planning (my guess is the former).

    That and pimping more advertising time within a "show" were probably the
    excuse.

    > So I started setting recordings manually for some shows/networks

    I just stopped watching them. If they're willing to indicate so clearly
    what contempt they have for the viewing audience then I'm willing to wait
    until the shows come out again in syndication. Tell *that* to the
    advertisers.
  17. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    > Mostly to fit extra commercials into the higher rated shows. Those 30
    > second spots go for more $$$ than the same 30 second spot in a lower rated
    > show.

    True, but they're worthless if it drives off the audience. Granted, the DVR
    viewing portion of the audience is (currently) smaller and does have FFWD
    capability. Even with being able to skip I still find a fair portion of the
    ads to be informative and do watch them from time to time.
  18. Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

    "wkearney99" <wkearney99@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:UbSdnXAHP_RghRffRVn-iQ@speakeasy.net...
    >> Mostly to fit extra commercials into the higher rated shows. Those 30
    >> second spots go for more $$$ than the same 30 second spot in a lower
    >> rated
    >> show.
    >
    > True, but they're worthless if it drives off the audience. Granted, the
    > DVR
    > viewing portion of the audience is (currently) smaller and does have FFWD
    > capability. Even with being able to skip I still find a fair portion of
    > the
    > ads to be informative and do watch them from time to time.

    Well, this many years into doing it, I'd say it's probably proved it's
    value, as they continue to do it to more shows and more often. Apparently
    the millions of $$$ they are making off the extra 2 minutes of commercials
    outweighs the (relatively) few viewers this practice drives away.

    Me too. I often find myself checking a commercial that caught my eye, and
    then when watching a different show with the wife later on, watch it a
    second time when I play it for her.
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