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Qualcomm Snapdragon 805 Performance Preview

The Snapdragon brand is synonymous with performance. It creates anxiety that competing SoCs feel deep down in their silicon substrate. But can Qualcomm's new Snapdragon 805 maintain its dominance in the Android-based smartphone market?

Qualcomm Snapdragon 805 Performance Preview : Read more
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  1. Trying not to be an Apple fanboy, but their A7 processor supports 64-bit instructions since last year. They lead innovation due to their clientele having more open-ended budget for the device than Android users (can't remember link to the study).
  2. Did I read that right? There won't be ANY 64-bit Android Phones until 2015? It's going to take practically TWO YEARS to play catch-up to the iPhone? Mind you, most iPhone users don't know the difference between 32-bit and 64-bit, anyway, but it's "better" and that their logic for upgrading. Preying on stupid people basically has become (or always has been?) Apple's business model, and it's paid off. Sometimes, I wish I wasn't anti-Apple. C'mon, Android...get with the program!
  3. Just find it funny tragic that more and more phone displays are almost at the same resolution as in many general desktop PC's.

    Also find it funny that their marketing team dare to call this "Ultra HD", would be fun to see a benchmark of this running that 4k resolution in any 3D descent detail benchmark=P

    "It actually approaches what a fairly modern desktop CPU's integrated memory controller can do. All of this extra memory bandwidth isn’t for the CPU, though. It's reserved for Qualcomm’s new Adreno 420 GPU."

    Yeah mostly is for the GPU, where a modern PC gpu alone pushes well over 300gb/sec. Close no? =P
  4. Dam! And I was hoping to see K1 on these benchmarks too, for a comparison. Oh well...
  5. NO Tegra K1 benchmarks here, itll make the snapdragon 805 a 2 year ago cpu... lol
  6. Is it too difficult for you guys to write a consistently good and accurate article? It's like you do the hard stuff, and then screw up details.

    For example, why are some charts from 0 to somewhere above the max score, and others start at, for example, 2300 and go to 3000.

    I realize you guys aren't really computer people from this terrible lack of attention to detail (which someone who does more than write about computers has to have as a personality flaw), but can't you hire someone that can look over this stuff, and at least try to present it in a consistent way? Writers who aren't computer people make these types of mistakes, because their minds aren't ordered enough, but you guys really need someone like that, because all the articles suffer from imprecision and lack of clarity (and over use of words like 'alacrity', which really implies emotion, and isn't a true synonym for speed. Again, precision ...)

    For example, I'm looking at charts, and am shocked by some, then realize it's just because you guys screwed up the scaling, and can't stay consistent.

    Don't worry, a chart that shows very little difference because you used the full scale isn't bad. Because, if you really think about it, neither is the performance, and if you can't see a big difference in the chart, you aren't going to see a big difference in the performance. But, when you see one bar over three times longer than another, and the real difference is less than 20%, don't you think that gives the wrong impression?

    If you do all the hard work, and then screw up details, it's just not as good as it could be. And yes, I've learned these sites like to say things in a way it is correct, but then present it in a manner which gives the opposite impression. Try writing without bias, and maybe this will go away. Charts are one way, comparing Kabinis with Haswells are another. Commenting more on charts that read what you want, while just presenting charts you don't like the results of, are another way. Or commenting on the part of the chart you like, while ignoring the part you don't. It's not as subtle as you might think, or maybe it is, and you don't even realize your bias. But we do.

    I used to love this site, especially when Thomas Pabst used to write in his crazy way. But, it's slowly, and inexorably getting worse. There are better sites now. Maybe skip the really bad car reviews (do you really think your opinions even approximate professional sites like Car and Driver? At all? ) and focus more producing better quality computer articles. It should be easy, you guys get a lot of good information, often do reviews that people want but other sites skip, but then screw it up with a lack of attention to detail and consistency.
  7. I find the inconsistency makes most of this completely pointless until the software gets actually optimized and the drivers start working.
  8. Well I really expect new article in near future where Tegra K1 and 805 are against each other. And then 810. It is interesting to see what 64bit computing will bring to mobile platforms... Mobile gaming is getting quite serious in next few years!
  9. you can compare the k1 benchmarks at anandtech
  10. I dont see why you are all so impressed with 64bit. I mean if you believe that the A7 is super amazing because it is 64bit then you're an idiot. The fact that its 64bit adds minimal performance and is 100% gimmick and just so that they can claim to be the first.

    It reminds me of when AMD released their first 64bit chips and microsoft released XP64, you soon realised that unless you had 4gb or more of ram then there was no difference (well except that none of your hardware drivers would work grrrr).
    Why would Qualcomm rush out a 64bit chip when there isnt any real improvement to be had? surely its better that they focus on things that will actually improve performance and battery life? I mean they havent even finished a 64bit version of android yet so what would it even run on? Until we see the need for more than 4gb of ram on phones then i really dont see the point
  11. This article shows why I don't come on this site much anymore, clearly this review was brought to you by the sponsor Qualcomm, because they omitted it's actual competition, the Nvidia K1 and only put it against last years Tegra 4, because you would see with the K1 on here that the 805 gets trounced in the graphics department, badly, AnandTech has a review showing both this developer 805 tablet and the released consumer Shield Tablet.

    "It’s exciting to see Snapdragon 805 blow past both the 801 and the A7. Qualcomm's Adreno 420 also earns the honor of being the first mobile GPU able to run T-Rex at 1080p with playable frame rates."

    Actually no, the 805 isn't even out yet, these benchmarks are showing a developers tablet, the Nvidia K1 on the other hand is already out and being sold in stores in the Shield Tablet and smashes the 805 on that test, 39.0 FPS on the T-Rex offscreen looks like 2 year old hardware next to the K1's 68.7 FPS.
  12. Quote:
    Did I read that right? There won't be ANY 64-bit Android Phones until 2015?

    Are you seriously considering doing some FP-64 workloads on a smartphone? I have yet to see an Iphone with 4 GB of RAM...

    "We’ll have to wait for the Snapdragon 810's introduction in 2015 before we see a new 64-bit CPU architecture supporting the ARMv8 instruction set." <- this article refers to the Qualcomm Snapdragon family of chips. Meaning you won't see any Qualcomm Snapdragon-powered 64-bit Androids. TI, Samsung, Nvidia, etc. can release 64-bit ARMv8-compatible chips in the meantime.
  13. Quote:
    they omitted it's actual competition, the Nvidia K1 and only put it against last years Tegra 4, because you would see with the K1 on here that the 805 gets trounced in the graphics department, badly


    We did not deliberately omit the Tegra K1 from our benchmarks. This article was written before the media was even allowed to see the Shield Tablet and we still haven't received a K1 device to benchmark. Our upcoming Shield Tablet review will include a comparison between the 805 and K1. And yes, the K1 will be generally faster as I alluded to in my conclusion.

    There actually has been one device released with the Snapdragon 805 SoC–the Galaxy S5 Broadband LTE-A. It's only available in South Korea though :(

    - Matt H.
  14. Quote:
    Meaning you won't see any Qualcomm Snapdragon-powered 64-bit Androids. TI, Samsung, Nvidia, etc. can release 64-bit ARMv8-compatible chips in the meantime.


    Nvidia's Denver core may beat Qualcomm's Snapdragon 810 to market, primarily because it's not based on an ARM architecture. Everyone else has to wait for ARM. Samsung could also release a 64-bit SoC before the 810, since they use stock ARM designs and don't need to spend time customizing it. At this point it still seems like 2015 will be the year for 64-bit ARM though.

    - Matt H.
  15. Quote:
    I mean if you believe that the A7 is super amazing because it is 64bit then you're an idiot. The fact that its 64bit adds minimal performance and is 100% gimmick and just so that they can claim to be the first.


    Kind of like quad-core CPUs in smartphones? :)

    There are actual benefits with 64-bit beyond how much memory the processor can address. Still, it's only a small part of the A7’s total performance. The bulk of it comes from improved IPC due to its wider design.

    - Matt H.
  16. Intro says quad 32bits memory channels while the slide says dual 64bits.

    Either way, with phones and tablets going to 1080p and beyond, their SoC's IGP is going to need that 128bits.
  17. Quote:
    For example, why are some charts from 0 to somewhere above the max score, and others start at, for example, 2300 and go to 3000.


    I understand and share your frustration regarding the scaling of charts. We are reviewing our procedure and will likely go back to the practice of starting all charts from zero.

    For the few articles that I've written, I try to point out the actual percent differences in my analysis to make things clear. I also point out any anomalous scores and try to comment on and compare each device in the chart. If any of you have suggestions about how I can improve my benchmark analysis discussion, or things you would like to see, please let me know.

    Quote:
    (and over use of words like 'alacrity', which really implies emotion, and isn't a true synonym for speed. Again, precision ...)


    I don't recall using this word in any of my articles. If I did, please point me to it so I can avoid this mistake in the future.

    Quote:
    Try writing without bias


    Do you feel this article is biased or are you making a general comment?

    - Matt H.
  18. That is some grossly inconsistent CPU performance there with that 805. I hope they can sort that out.
  19. JOSHSKORN said:
    Did I read that right? There won't be ANY 64-bit Android Phones until 2015? It's going to take practically TWO YEARS to play catch-up to the iPhone? Mind you, most iPhone users don't know the difference between 32-bit and 64-bit, anyway, but it's "better" and that their logic for upgrading. Preying on stupid people basically has become (or always has been?) Apple's business model, and it's paid off. Sometimes, I wish I wasn't anti-Apple. C'mon, Android...get with the program!


    while their smartphones might be good, lets not forget the atrocious laptop price to performance ratios.
  20. "does it compete with Nvidia’s Kepler-powered Tegra K1?"

    No and you know it!!!! Anand Tech tested the Shield Tablet several days ago. You guys are pretty close with them, so we know you read it. The OS II CPU bench was 1,100 Vs 1,400. The Trex offscreen was 40 vs 70. The K1 is a truly Next Gen device that puts Android on the level of integrated Intel laptop GFX. Battery life and lack of GOD make it a tablet only chip though, so for Cell Phones this will only compete with Apple.
  21. Quote:
    Did I read that right? There won't be ANY 64-bit Android Phones until 2015? It's going to take practically TWO YEARS to play catch-up to the iPhone? Mind you, most iPhone users don't know the difference between 32-bit and 64-bit, anyway, but it's "better" and that their logic for upgrading. Preying on stupid people basically has become (or always has been?) Apple's business model, and it's paid off. Sometimes, I wish I wasn't anti-Apple. C'mon, Android...get with the program!


    Its not android that is behind, it's Qualcom. They got caught flat footed when Apple announced the 64bit A7 SoC. Quallcom didnt even have a 64 bit soc on the drawing board when the A7 was released.

    If you remember, one of qualcom's pr team quickly de-nounced the advantages of 64 bit, when apple released a7. Then the engineers at qualcom had the dude fired and reversed the statement.

    ARM simply played favorites by introducing apple to the ARMv8 arch before anyone else. why? because they sell tons of devices and Apple built ARM basically.

    Apple's huge device sales have also afforded it tons of leverage on the pricing and availability of parts and tech.

    TSMC's 20nm Node has been delayed a full 1.5 years for everyone (nvidia, AMD, Qualcom, etc..) EXCEPT apple. TSMC has been baking 20nm for 6 months ONLY for apple's A8 CPU.. Basicly the equipment they have that is capable of 20nm is all devoted to apple.

    Same with camera tech. Apple gets the latest sony mobile camera's before anyone else, because they sell more devices than anyone else.
  22. The Note 4 will put down the Iphone 6 with its flexable screen alone not to mention more pixels.
  23. Preview without RETAIL K1 already shipping which as anandtech shows, destroys this Qcom S805 sponsored preview ;)
    http://anandtech.com/show/8296/the-nvidia-shield-tablet-review/5
    It's comic they say first to do 4K, umm, NV already here, does TWO 4k streams at once in a demo so clearly they can decode 4K also, and again you can buy today.

    This Qcom dev unit isn't for sale, and already beaten handily. S810 will be released after Denver which is IN HOUSE while S810 isn't. They'll lose that war too and the response won't come until way later with IN HOUSE again from Qcom. NV's going to be on a role for the next year or two in tablets at least until qcom goes back in house.

    Should have just aborted the preview and put it in with K1 testing. We already know it loses to a product already out. Qcom must be throwing around some money these days due to K1 ;)
  24. Denver will beat 810 to market because it's in Google's HTC Nexus 9 (Probably mid nov). S810 is said to come 6mo+ after S805 and won't be in house custom like krait (so perf and battery life situations will be reversed now vs. Denver). Answer to in house should be another 6 months behind S810 maybe more, so facing M1 (or whatever maxwell 20nm Tegra is called). It should have a decent cpu, but I don't think they'll catch NV again on the gpu side with NV's gpus from desktops coming to mobile every year now along with all the driver experience, dev experience with the hardware long before it hits mobile etc. All advantages for NV (or AMD if they'd get it the race here soon!) and devs who have less work since they already know NV inside out on desktop first.
  25. somebodyspecial said:
    They'll lose that war too and the response won't come until way later with IN HOUSE again from Qcom. NV's going to be on a role for the next year or two in tablets at least until qcom goes back in house.

    Only if phones and tablets were about 3D gaming and only if Nvidia sells chips for cheaper than Samsung, Broadcom, Qualcomm and others. There are tons of people who are not going to use their portable devices for gaming and for those, the power and cash cost of using a K1 is unnecessary overkill.

    The market for lower-power, lower-performance, lower-cost SoCs is not going to spontaneously disappear just because K1 exists.
  26. Why is everyone is keen on the K1? Its powerful but the power consumption from it is probably higher than any other ARM soc on the market. It won't go into phones but the 805 will.
  27. They release too many small revisions too quickly, they should wait until the leap is a good enough to warrant a release.
  28. Am I the only one that thinks not putting this up against the K1 is moderately disingenuous?
  29. The_Icon said:
    They release too many small revisions too quickly, they should wait until the leap is a good enough to warrant a release.

    The 805 is a fairly big step up from the 801 in terms of RAM bandwidth and IGP performance with close to double the scores in more bandwidth-intensive IGP benchmarks.

    The CPU performance oddity might ruin the 805's party if they are not microcode/firmware-fixable though.
  30. Simon Ayres said:
    Am I the only one that thinks not putting this up against the K1 is moderately disingenuous?

    Enthusiasts want to see how each company's best compare against other performance-wise even if the products are intended for different market segments: the 805 is designed primarily for low power while the K1 is designed primarily for gaming.

    Atom vs normal desktop CPUs is not exactly fair either since the desktops have 10-20X higher TDP but the comparison is still interesting just to see how wide the performance gap still is.
  31. Its important to note that mobile screens are approaching desktop resolutions to better their web experience. Media elements wont require special scripts to run correctly or presentably on the phone, which you can only assume will make performance a bit better in general.

    Most assets are being rendered @720 and scaled for phone games anyway, so they really aren't killing themselves.

    The battery however...
  32. Worthless Promo piece for QualComm.

    To purposely not include the existing, current and available Shield Tablet with the Tegra K1 is bordering on at best incompetence and at worst a pure propaganda piece for QualComm.
  33. tslot05qsljgo9ed said:
    To purposely not include the existing, current and available Shield Tablet with the Tegra K1 is bordering on at best incompetence and at worst a pure propaganda piece for QualComm.

    The K1 was not released yet when the article was written.
  34. Quote:
    Worthless Promo piece for QualComm.

    To purposely not include the existing, current and available Shield Tablet with the Tegra K1 is bordering on at best incompetence and at worst a pure propaganda piece for QualComm.


    I've already explained the absense of the Tegra K1 in our benchmarks in a previous post. This article was written before the Shield Tablet was released and we still haven't received a K1 device to test ourselves (we'll have one soon :)

    I'm not sure why you think this article is worthless. It provides a list of features, info about the SoC architecture and how it compares to its competitors, and benchmark results comparing the 805 to several competitors.

    Before a product is released, the company holds all the cards. We can either report the information they provide, or we can extract from them, and call BS where appropriate, or we can all wait until the product is released to learn about it.

    This article is pretty critical of the 805 overall: can't achieve max clock rates when all four CPU cores are in use, slower than the K1, and the design philosophy for Krait is a dead end if Qualcomm is going to remain competitive performance-wise with its competitors. That doesn't sound like a propaganda piece an OEM would pay for to me. I'm in no way being disingenuous.

    - Matt H.
  35. I'm sorry... am I the only one who thinks that without actual power consumption comparisons this whole review is irrelevant?
  36. smoohta said:
    I'm sorry... am I the only one who thinks that without actual power consumption comparisons this whole review is irrelevant?

    Knowing where things stands in relative CPU/GPU performance terms is always nice to know even without performance-per-watt figures to assess efficiency: if performance falls too far short from what is expected, power becomes moot.
  37. Quote:
    smoohta said:
    I'm sorry... am I the only one who thinks that without actual power consumption comparisons this whole review is irrelevant?

    Knowing where things stands in relative CPU/GPU performance terms is always nice to know even without performance-per-watt figures to assess efficiency: if performance falls too far short from what is expected, power becomes moot.


    I agree, but once you establish that for the most part performance is on par or better (as shown here) then performance per watt is an absolute must... especially on a platform that is targeted for mobile.
  38. Can someone please compare these results to the tegra k1 becuase I really want to buy the shield tablet, and according to the anandtech review, the tegra k1 kicks the c*** out of the 805.
  39. Matt: I've already explained the absence of the Tegra K1 in our benchmarks in a previous post. This article was written before the Shield Tablet was released and we still haven't received a K1 device to test ourselves (we'll have one soon :)

    I'm sorry but the excuses seem very lame and the underlying bias for QualComm seems more very real.

    And I bet you will not REDO this article with the Tegra K1 results or change your conclusions which will really show that this article was a pure propaganda piece for QualComm to begin with.

    If you really were going to have the Shield Tablet Soon as you state then why did you not delay this article a few days to include it.
  40. Fishwithadeagle said:
    If you really were going to have the Shield Tablet Soon as you state then why did you not delay this article a few days to include it.

    And what would happen then? People would start bashing THG for delivering reviews weeks after everyone else has, which would be every bit as bad if not worse.

    Not many enthusiasts are interested in reading re-heated news from over a week ago... they want to see everything available published on the day NDAs expire. One day later and half the readership has already moved on.
  41. InvalidError said:
    somebodyspecial said:
    They'll lose that war too and the response won't come until way later with IN HOUSE again from Qcom. NV's going to be on a role for the next year or two in tablets at least until qcom goes back in house.

    Only if phones and tablets were about 3D gaming and only if Nvidia sells chips for cheaper than Samsung, Broadcom, Qualcomm and others. There are tons of people who are not going to use their portable devices for gaming and for those, the power and cash cost of using a K1 is unnecessary overkill.

    The market for lower-power, lower-performance, lower-cost SoCs is not going to spontaneously disappear just because K1 exists.


    Last year and before it wasn't about gaming as much, more about a modem. Today, not so. NV won nexus this year due to the GPU not the price. NV doesn't have 65% discrete share due to price, but rather a BETTER product, support, and drivers. Intel doesn't have a monopoly due to cheap pricing, they have it because it is BETTER.

    Cost of K1 is overkill? You do realize these socs are going for ~$25 right? Samsung and Apple aren't making wads of cash of $200 phones (which is why NV is not chasing them now, and only chasing high end phones/tablets). These two are making the bulk of their cash on the top of the line products, just like NV makes most from the same. We get cheap great stuff because a few people have tons to spend on the top stuff. Broadcom isn't in this race, and just gave up the modem race. Read more please. Price alone doesn't make all design wins happen.

    I'd argue your tons of people not gaming comment too. With the majority of sales at any of the stores (google, amazon, apple) coming from games, and most of the time recorded on mobile going to gaming the facts just don't line up with your opinion.
    http://www.techradar.com/us/news/software/applications/most-time-on-smartphones-spent-playing-games-1142615

    Sure some people won't game, but NV isn't after those people right? They in fact said not after low-end phones now at all. They're only after high end phones, and tablet, and soon with denver and beyond/64bit/androidL etc your notebook and desktop at some point too. Gaming on PC's requires discrete for most. Gaming on mobile requires a great gpu for most and especially upcoming games this xmas/next as it really takes off, coming directly into NV's (or AMD) wheelhouse where everyone else has to catch up. This wasn't the case with the modem being king and not using things like watching movies before that hits your cap today in an hour (2GB isn't even a 1/2 of a 720p movie with decent bitrates and most of us have 2GB or less, only HK/Singapore have 10GB pretty normal and that's not going to watch many movies either). Without the need for ever faster modems (due to caps, killing the whole point of the speed), the gpu will become king if it isn't already happening now. IE ARM said sales of their socs were down because their gpu was behind, as Qcom/NV spanked them (with these two winning sales of devices hitting now or soon, chips were sold earlier since it takes 5-6 months to get it into a device from arrival at your door). Arms last quarter sucking due to the gpu is indicated by the devices those lost sales would be in over the next few months of releases (mali isn't winning devices, K1/S805 are and it had nothing to due to price). Qcom hasn't been giving discounts to win sales, they had a really great product until K1 caught them, which I predicted would happen in many posts here and elsewhere as desktop gpu hits socs and games take over.

    More and more people will game as they find out they CAN now that gpu power is there to support it. PC gaming is growing because integrated stuff can actually play a few things now, where before you needed a discrete or that entire party was over. I didn't say the low-end would disappear. PC sales down but PC gaming revenue #1 (just past console total revenue at over $15.2B now) says more people can actually GAME now and don't require a console or discrete to do it as many have learned. Ten years ago many people didn't even know PC's could game (they kept buying integrated crap that really couldn't, so consoles ruled for most), however today apu's etc are allowing far more to realize pc gaming. This in turn eventually leads to "hey what are those discrete things for" once people get a taste, which sent NV revenues on records for gpus for many quarters even during pc's decline in this economy etc. PC sales were down ~12% last year and NV set records quarter after quarter. They get a taste on the low-end now, and say hey, for a few dollars more...on their next purchase. More get the importance of the gpu today right? Or how does NV set revenue records in a hugely down market?

    You're also acting as though the gpu can't scale down when not needed. If that was the case, you'd get the same hours browsing the web as when gaming, and we know that isn't the case as you can power gate off much of it when not needed on cpu and gpu. K1 is in a $300 tablet not subsidized and making money also, thus proving it's not that costly right? It doesn't have to be a $600 device to be able to fit a K1 in it's budget. Yet you think price will hold this thing back? A $300 phone or tablet can sell well in many markets and we don't know if that's as low as they can go, or NV is just making a good mint on them due to the perf allowing it. We'll know in a few quarters if it's making more than T3/T4 did and we'll see how low they can go as more devices come with it. T4 has been in $200 devices for quite some time. The difference between crap and great in these things is like $10. IE previous mediatek chips sold for $10-15 vs. Tegra4 at $20-25. With Mediatek moving up I think they're getting a bit more now, but still overall these socs are all dirt cheap as a component in any of these devices. You also act as thought hey can't ship a lower clocked part if desired.

    One more point, samsung is forced to source from qcom just to launch everywhere at once. Nothing is stopping Nv from winning some of that too, and it won't just be about price as I'm pretty sure samsung gets their own chips cheaper than qcom, but they still use them a lot. But if they don't have the capacity, they'll buy someone else to get there rather than NOT sell a device in massive quantity. Any lost sale is someone else getting it (probably apple or google) and they make too much on each sale to care about a few bucks on a soc to get that sale. They'll pay what they have to vs. coming up short on 5-10mil galaxy s4, s5 etc...They own 68% of the material in the phone or tablet so they can easily make up $5-10 extra they have to pay someone else to sell that 68% of their stuff. I'm not saying they don't want a good price (everyone does), just that they don't care if it's making a large profit vs. a extra few bucks on a soc or making NONE on a lost sale to apple etc.
  42. somebodyspecial said:
    Cost of K1 is overkill? You do realize these socs are going for ~$25 right?

    Nvidia was originally asking $47 for the Tegra4. Can't find numbers for the K1 yet but I cannot imagine Nvidia completely giving up on their wider markups.
  43. Ridiculous article comparing Snapdragon 805 to last year's Tegra 4 and Exynos 5 octa.

    Here is the real deal comparing it to Tegra K1 and Exynos 5433:

    http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/galaxy-note-4-benchmarks-show-exynos-5433-chip-is-faster-than-snapdragon-805

    Note the linked article dates from 23 June. No excuse for Toms Hardware. This is BS pro-Qualcomn misinformation.
  44. Quote:
    Here is the real deal comparing it to Tegra K1 and Exynos 5433:

    http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/galaxy-note-4-benchmarks-show-exynos-5433-chip-is-faster-than-snapdragon-805

    Note the linked article dates from 23 June. No excuse for Toms Hardware. This is BS pro-Qualcomn misinformation.


    The Galaxy Note 4 has not been announced or released yet. Likewise, the Samsung Exynos 5433 has not been announced or released yet.

    The article you refer to is for a single benchmark (AnTuTu) only. We don't even know what the device actually is. Is it a phone ready to release soon or an internal development model? While an interesting speculative story, our benchmark charts aren't a place for rumors.

    The conclusion of this article only states that the 805 is generally faster than the 801 (primarily GPU) and alludes to the K1 being faster still.

    Sorry, but your argument about this article being "misinformation" just doesn't hold water.

    - Matt H.
  45. InvalidError said:
    somebodyspecial said:
    Cost of K1 is overkill? You do realize these socs are going for ~$25 right?

    Nvidia was originally asking $47 for the Tegra4. Can't find numbers for the K1 yet but I cannot imagine Nvidia completely giving up on their wider markups.


    Link to proof of T4 price please. I've never heard anything over $25.

    http://techreport.com/news/25511/rumor-intel-to-match-arm-soc-pricing-with-low-end-bay-trail-t
    Even Intel was only selling baytrail for $32 (and 10% off for bulk orders so $29) and they WERE NOT price competitive with Qcom, which tells you Qcom was well under $29. Considering Intel is losing 1.1B on 1.15B worth of baytrail chips we can be very sure Qcom is quite a bit under $29 and NV can't be more. I don't get where you're getting this price as it was widely known Google got tegras for $21-23 and MS got them for $23-25. The T4 sells in Tegra Note 7 for $200, you must not be aware of BOM listings which show it can't be what you're saying for any soc.

    https://technology.ihs.com/408150/low-end-google-nexus-7-carries-152-bom-teardown-reveals
    Nexus 7 with T3 cost. $21. See the point? Kindle fire soc $13.50...LOL.

    http://www.tech-thoughts.net/2013/06/microsoft-surface-mini-bom-price-349.html
    "The original Surface RT used an nVidia Tegra 3 processor that cost $21.50. I've assumed the same cost for the Tegra 4 processor. The actual cost may be a a little higher as the Tegra 4 has not been on the market as long as the Tegra 3 was during Surface RT launch."

    T4 was basically the exact die size of T3 (80mm^2). So easy to sell for the same cost. I'll hazard a guess K1 will cost more but that is just a guess due to a guess that the gpu puts it over 100mm^2 (closer to apple than T4) but I'm throwing a dart at the board here, and they may have gotten the gpu seriously optimized for size. Maxwell makes huge improvements on the same 28nm process as kepler so who knows what they did here. There would be zero T4 design wins if they were asking $47 knowing Qcom/Intel are nowhere near that and having isupply breakdowns of so many devices and nothing over $30 for the soc without a modem.

    Galaxy S5 has the S801 and it was estimated at $41, but that has a modem and was arguably better than T4.
    http://press.ihs.com/press-release/design-supply-chain/samsung-galaxy-s5-carries-astronomical-bill-materials-ihs-teardown

    "The MSM8974AC carries an estimated cost of $41.00. This may seem elevated but represents the combined functionality of two formerly separate chips, the core applications processor and the wireless semiconductor. In other designs, such as the Apple iPhones and other Samsung designs, these two roles may be filled by two separate chips."

    But that was brand new, so pricing to lead with a brand new chip in your flagship obviously is higher than anything after it using the same thing. Samsung probably pays a premium to be FIRST (or near first, as anyone else does probably too when they buy a new design for flagship phones).

    http://www.techinsights.com/uploadedFiles/Public_Website/Content_-_Primary/Teardowncom/Sales/Mobile_Devices_Deep_Dive_Sample_Report_Xiaomi_MI3.pdf
    $27 T4 price here, but they are a LOT smaller so it figures they'd be higher than say samsung, google or microsoft would pay for them. Page 42. This phone launched in sept 2013 (but avail Oct in china), only a few months after the debut of T4 and it was pretty late in everything but their own device (shield). I don't see how anyone paid over $30 knowing what these guys paid when it was brand new and they aren't exactly big (growing, but still) and they sourced a model from qcom also, so you had to be competitive.

    So again, link to this $47 price, as I've never heard anything like that.
  46. @Doug Lord "Battery life and lack of GOD make it a tablet only chip though"
    There is currently no information availlable that allows one to make such a statement. From the initial tests of a real-life product, the Shield Tablet, the battery life is perfectly normal. However, it is true that there are currently no planned K1 handhelds and no planned Snapdragon tablets to compare apples with apples (no pun intended).

    ""does it compete with Nvidia’s Kepler-powered Tegra K1?"No and you know it!!!!"

    Of course it does. K1 trounces Snapdragon 805 in every benchmark.

    And for the first time an nvidia soc is going head-to-head in design wins with Qualcomm:

    K1 design wins:
    Xiaomi Mipad
    Google Nexus 8
    Microsoft Surface 3
    Acer CB5 Chromebook

    Snapdragon design wins:
    Samsung Galaxy Note 4
    Samsung Galaxy S5
    LG G3
  47. @Doug Lord "Battery life and lack of GOD make it a tablet only chip though"
    There is currently no information availlable that allows one to make such a statement. From the initial tests of a real-life product, the Shield Tablet, the battery life is perfectly normal. However, it is true that there are currently no planned K1 handhelds and no planned Snapdragon tablets to compare apples with apples (no pun intended).

    ""does it compete with Nvidia’s Kepler-powered Tegra K1?"No and you know it!!!!"

    Of course it does. K1 trounces Snapdragon 805 in every benchmark.

    And for the first time an nvidia soc is going head-to-head in design wins with Qualcomm:

    K1 design wins:
    Xiaomi Mipad
    Google Nexus 8
    Microsoft Surface 3
    Acer CB5 Chromebook

    Snapdragon design wins:
    Samsung Galaxy Note 4
    Samsung Galaxy S5
    LG G3
  48. ""does it compete with Nvidia’s Kepler-powered Tegra K1?"No and you know it!!!!"

    Of course it does. K1 trounces Snapdragon 805 in every benchmark.

    And for the first time an nvidia soc is going head-to-head in design wins with Qualcomm:

    K1 design wins:
    Xiaomi Mipad
    Google Nexus 8
    Microsoft Surface 3
    Acer CB5 Chromebook

    Snapdragon design wins:
    Samsung Galaxy Note 4
    Samsung Galaxy S5
    LG G3
  49. @Matt64, thank you for your reaction. It is not often that we do get feedback this way.

    You are right in that I should not write offensive things like this article being BS misinformation. Sorry about those words which were absolutely not necessary.

    However, most other review sites got their K1 end of July and by July 31st, date of your article, had posted reviews of K1 vs Snapdragon 805. I find it difficult to believe that toms hardware did not get its test k1. Did you even ask for one?

    On a seond point, you say Antutu is a SINGLE benchmark. As you know, it is not. it is a suite of benchmarks that measusres the Soc's performance in several apps comparable to real-life usage. A better score on Antutu does signify a better-all-around performance.

    You say you don't know what the k1 device actually is. Check out the Antutu site and and can see it is a Xiaomi Mipad, ie a perfectly real product.

    http://www.antutu.com/en/Ranking.shtml
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