Hi-Definition laserdiscs

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

I heard about the japanese HiVision(or something like that) discs and was
wondering what's known about them? I know they're 1125 lines of res.

Also, I have a japanese import laserdisc on the way to me in the mail
right now. It's Genesis Invisible Touch tour from 1987 and it says on the
cover "SONY HI-DEF" this doesn't have anything to do with HiVision does
it? Does it just mean they mastered it well?

-Mike
33 answers Last reply
More about definition laserdiscs
  1. Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

    half_eaten wrote:
    >
    > I heard about the japanese HiVision(or something like that) discs and was
    > wondering what's known about them? I know they're 1125 lines of res.
    >
    > Also, I have a japanese import laserdisc on the way to me in the mail
    > right now. It's Genesis Invisible Touch tour from 1987 and it says on the
    > cover "SONY HI-DEF" this doesn't have anything to do with HiVision does
    > it? Does it just mean they mastered it well?
    >
    > -Mike
    If it is a Hi-Def disc, I doubt if it will play in your standard LD
    machine. More than likely, it was mastered from a Hi-Def source into
    standard NTSC video.
  2. Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

    >I heard about the japanese HiVision(or something like that) discs and was
    >wondering what's known about them?

    HiVision, also called "Muse" discs were essentially standard discs containing
    compressed High Def material. There was a small selection of movies avaliable
    on the format, as well as a small catalog of "special interest" films. The
    discs require a MUSE capable player, such as Pioneer's HLD-X0 or HLD-X9 as well
    as a special decoder and an HDTV. Obviously, an RF demodulator is neccesary if
    you're interested in AC-3 soundtracks, but not otherwise. Here is a list of
    MUSE titles:
    http://japanld.free.fr/search.php?adv_search=&adv_reference=&discard=false
    &video=3

    > It's Genesis Invisible Touch tour from 1987 and it says on the
    >cover "SONY HI-DEF" this doesn't have anything to do with HiVision does
    >it?

    According to the database, the concert was filmed using 1125 line Sony Hi-Def
    cameras, but it's a standard NTSC disc in widescreen. So no, it's no a HiVision
    disc, and your current player can handle it. If the transfer was any good, the
    video quality should be great. Here's the disc:
    http://japanld.free.fr/laserdisc.php?id=25322
    Steve Grauman
  3. Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

    I've never seen a HiVision LD with a separate AC-3 soundtrack. HiVision has
    its own multi-channel Audio encoding that is decoded in the MUSE decoder.
    Since I cannot read Japanese I cannot give the details from my owners manual
    for my decoder.

    Kurtis

    "Steve Grauman" <oneactor1@aol.com> wrote in message
    news:20050107183339.07662.00002761@mb-m01.aol.com...
    > >I heard about the japanese HiVision(or something like that) discs and was
    >>wondering what's known about them?
    >
    > HiVision, also called "Muse" discs were essentially standard discs
    > containing
    > compressed High Def material. There was a small selection of movies
    > avaliable
    > on the format, as well as a small catalog of "special interest" films. The
    > discs require a MUSE capable player, such as Pioneer's HLD-X0 or HLD-X9 as
    > well
    > as a special decoder and an HDTV. Obviously, an RF demodulator is
    > neccesary if
    > you're interested in AC-3 soundtracks, but not otherwise. Here is a list
    > of
    > MUSE titles:
    > http://japanld.free.fr/search.php?adv_search=&adv_reference=&discard=false
    > &video=3
    >
    >> It's Genesis Invisible Touch tour from 1987 and it says on the
    >>cover "SONY HI-DEF" this doesn't have anything to do with HiVision does
    >>it?
    >
    > According to the database, the concert was filmed using 1125 line Sony
    > Hi-Def
    > cameras, but it's a standard NTSC disc in widescreen. So no, it's no a
    > HiVision
    > disc, and your current player can handle it. If the transfer was any good,
    > the
    > video quality should be great. Here's the disc:
    > http://japanld.free.fr/laserdisc.php?id=25322
    > Steve Grauman
  4. Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

    Hello,

    Hi-Vision LDs (through a decoder) can be watched on a 1080i compatible
    display.

    Rgds,
    Julien
  5. Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

    You have a HiVision player? I didn't think that would be able to work on an
    american HDTV. The only modes they support are 480i/p, 720p and 1080i.
  6. Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

    1. Sound

    Hi-Vision pre-dates Dolby Digital. At best it has discreet Dolby
    Surround (ie, 4 separate channels: front left, front center, front
    right, rear).

    2. "Hi-Def" NTSC LDs

    These were converted from Hi-Vision video masters and do in general
    exhibit an exceptionnally good picture quality. They are 16:9 by
    nature, as their source is. Apart from that Genesis, check out the
    Sting 40th Birthday for example.

    3. Hi-Vision specs

    1125i is theoretical, 1080i is actual and therefore shows on any HDTV
    worldwide. Not only HDTV brings us higher PQ, it also drops the country
    barriers that existed in the age of NTSC/PAL/SECAM, at least at the
    display level.

    4. Hi-Vision hardware, LD list, info and offers:

    Can be found on my web page here:
    http://home.q03.itscom.net/nsa/muse.htm

    Also listed in eBay in my Discs-of-Japan store (seller n$a):
    <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6355964561&refid=store>
    Orders, enquiries, requests welcome.


    Greetings,
    Nicolas
  7. Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

    As others have said, it works great displaying at 1080i

    Kurtis

    "half_eaten" <half_eaten@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:1b6febb0cc027cf43b56b95d11cb2af6@localhost.talkaboutvideo.com...
    > You have a HiVision player? I didn't think that would be able to work on
    > an
    > american HDTV. The only modes they support are 480i/p, 720p and 1080i.
    >
  8. Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

    They don't downscale, there is only one HDTV format, it is 1125i
    theoretical = 1080i actual. You can call it 1125i or 1080i, it is the
    SAME THING.
  9. Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

    Oh, I didn't know the players downscale to 1080i. I figured they just
    output 1125 and only work on some weird japanese HD format TV sets or
    something. That's awesome!
  10. Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

    On 8 Jan 2005 07:55:53 -0800, "n$a" <nsa@dk.catv.ne.jp> wrote:

    > it has discreet Dolby Surround

    I would hope that for a concert disc it's not discreet, but instead
    discrete!
  11. Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

    <<I've never seen a HiVision LD with a separate AC-3 soundtrack.>>

    I didn't know if they had AC-3, but I was under the impression that
    the X9 had an RF output for standard NTSC discs.

    <<HiVision has
    its own multi-channel Audio encoding that is decoded in the MUSE
    decoder.>>

    Interesting...how many speakers does this format support, and in what
    configuration? Once the decoder decodes this special soundtrack, how
    should a reciever handle it (pro-logic mode, stereo mode, etc...)? Can
    the decoder be connected to a reciever via coaxial or toslink?
  12. Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

    Steven Grauman wrote:
    >
    > <<HiVision has
    > its own multi-channel Audio encoding that is decoded in the MUSE
    > decoder.>>
    >
    > Interesting...how many speakers does this format support, and in what
    > configuration? Once the decoder decodes this special soundtrack, how
    > should a reciever handle it (pro-logic mode, stereo mode, etc...)?
    Can
    > the decoder be connected to a reciever via coaxial or toslink?

    Most of these questions are already answered on my page:
    http://home.q03.itscom.net/nsa/muse.htm

    One simple and effective way is to connect the 5 analog discrete
    outputs of the decoder to the amp's 5.1 input zone, leaving .1 empty.
  13. Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

    >Oh, I didn't know the players downscale to 1080i. I figured they just
    >output 1125 and only work on some weird japanese HD format TV sets or
    >something.

    Some HDTVs can exceed 1080i. JVC's 34-inch CRT HDTV can produced 1500i, which I
    believe is standard for Japan (although I'm not certain). However I don't know
    if anything, even in Japan, is broadcast at that resolution, and I wasn't aware
    that the players downscaled MUSE discs to 1080i.
    Steve Grauman
  14. Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

    <<One simple and effective way is to connect the 5 analog discrete
    outputs of the decoder to the amp's 5.1 input zone, leaving .1 empty.>>

    So how do I get audio for the LFE channel? And what audio mode should a
    reciever be in when running a MUSE disc, Pro-Logic? Lastly, your site
    says that the Victor/JVC HV-VMD1 has a toslink optical output. Is that
    a pass through for the digital audio on regular NTSC discs, or is that
    a digital carrier for the MUSE type surround sound?
  15. Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

    Joshua Zyber wrote:
    > "Steven Grauman" <OneActor1@aol.com> wrote in message
    > news:1105309377.260602.164660@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
    > > <<One simple and effective way is to connect the 5 analog discrete
    > > outputs of the decoder to the amp's 5.1 input zone, leaving .1
    > > empty.>>
    > >
    > > So how do I get audio for the LFE channel?
    >
    > The obvious answer is that the MUSE audio format does not have a
    > dedicated .1 LFE channel. The bass will be mixed into the other
    > channels.
    >
    > > And what audio mode should a
    > > reciever be in when running a MUSE disc, Pro-Logic?
    >
    > If you're using the 6-channel analog inputs on the receiver, you
    bypass
    > the receiver's decoding and processing.

    Josh is correct. Another way is to have the 4 outputs of the MUSE
    decoder sent to an external Dolby processor with such input and let the
    processor make a 5.1 out of it, send this to the amp.
  16. Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

    <<Lastly, your site
    says that the Victor/JVC HV-VMD1 has a toslink optical output. Is that
    a pass through for the digital audio on regular NTSC discs, or is that
    a digital carrier for the MUSE type surround sound?>>

    Answer to this is on the site as well, copy/paste:
    HV-VMD1: [...] 2 optical (L'R', CS)
    L'R' denotes a 2-channels mix down-converted from MUSE's LRCS.

    The NTSC output of the LD deck does not go to the MUSE decoder. Which,
    as you may now figure out, results in that a fully installed Hi-Vision
    LD setup has even more audio cables running around than a regular LD
    setup.
  17. Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

    <<If you're using the 6-channel analog inputs on the receiver, you
    bypass
    the receiver's decoding and processing. >>

    But my Denon always needs to be set on a "mode". If I want Pro-Logic,
    Dolby Digital or DTS sound I set it to "Pro-Logic mode" and it auto
    detects what codec it's getting. Otherwsie, I put it in Stereo or
    "Direct" or I can set it for some sort of "simulation mode" such as
    5-channel Stereo, Rock Concert, etc...If I were feeding it with the
    6-channel analog inputs from a MUSE player, whuch of those "modes"
    would it need to be set to?
  18. Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

    <<Josh is correct. Another way is to have the 4 outputs of the MUSE
    decoder sent to an external Dolby processor with such input and let the
    processor make a 5.1 out of it, send this to the amp.>>

    The Denon I'm currently using is an integrated processor and
    multi-channel amp, it's all in one unit. It has 6-channel analog inputs
    on the back, which is what (I think) I'd need to use with the MUSE
    decoder. What I'm not understanding is what "Mode" the reciever should
    be set to when watching a MUSE movie. I can set it to Pro-Logic mode,
    which auto detects Pro-Logic, Dolby Digital or DTS signals and switches
    itself accordingly, or I can set it for Stereo, "Direct", "5-Channel
    Stereo" or any of several simulation modes such as Rock Concert and
    Video Game. If I were feeding it with a MUSE decoder, I assume that I
    would need it set to either Pro-Logic or "Direct" and I'm curious as to
    where it should be set.
  19. Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

    Any of those as anyway it won't be applied to the incoming 5.1 signal.
    You do have a 5.1 input zone, right ?
    Do you have a manual, have you tried to find the answer in it ?
  20. Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

    <<You do have a 5.1 input zone, right ?>>

    Yes.

    <<Do you have a manual, have you tried to find the answer in it ?>>

    I haven't consulted the manual, although I'm curious as to wether the
    receiver should handle an incoming MUSE audio signal differently than
    it would a multi-channel DVD or DVD-A signal, which is what the manual
    will probably pertain to. Nonetheless, I'll dig it up and take a look.
  21. Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

    <<There is a mode usually called something like "external direct">>

    My reciever just has a mode called "Direct" that will simply amplify
    the incomign source without doing any processing work other than the
    D/A conversion. But now I have no idea if it applies to the analog
    6-channel inputs. I'll need to consult the manual.
  22. Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

    Your receiver has no way to know the source of the analog 5.1 signal it
    is being fed, obviously. The whole point of a 6 channel input is
    precisely to to be compatible with all sources. Some early AC-3
    decoders for example had 5.1 channels analog out, instead of a 5.1
    digital out, because at the time the amps did not have dolby digital
    decoding capability. There are likely other applications where the 6
    channels input of a receiver can be put to use.
  23. Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

    "Steven Grauman" <OneActor1@aol.com> wrote in message
    news:1105309377.260602.164660@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
    > <<One simple and effective way is to connect the 5 analog discrete
    > outputs of the decoder to the amp's 5.1 input zone, leaving .1
    > empty.>>
    >
    > So how do I get audio for the LFE channel?

    The obvious answer is that the MUSE audio format does not have a
    dedicated .1 LFE channel. The bass will be mixed into the other
    channels.

    > And what audio mode should a
    > reciever be in when running a MUSE disc, Pro-Logic?

    If you're using the 6-channel analog inputs on the receiver, you bypass
    the receiver's decoding and processing.
  24. Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

    I tried connecting the front right and left channel outputs from the
    connectors on my DVD player to the front right and left inputs on my
    reciever (and yes, I made sure I was using the multi-channel connectors
    and not the standard stereo outputs). I get sound through the front
    speakers, but I can't control the volume of the sound. Regardless of if
    I have the unit set to -60 or +15, the volume is constant when running
    with these inputs. When I go back to my toslink connection, everything
    works normally and I can adjust the volume, I don't get it.
  25. Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

    <<What model stereo are you using exactly?>>
    A Denon AVR-2803. But I figured out the problem, thanks anyway.
  26. Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

    Yeah, your analog 6-channel inputs will ALWAYS bypass the digital signal
    processor(s) - Never seen a receiver that doesn't.
  27. Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

    You are correct about the AC-3 RF on the X9 for AC-3 encoded NTSC LD's. But
    there is a totally separate board that the handles the HiVision and output a
    MUSE signal to the MUSE decoder. As noted in other responses, MUSE does not
    have an AC-3 signal.

    Kurtis

    "Steven Grauman" <OneActor1@aol.com> wrote in message
    news:1105258537.142506.254040@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
    > <<I've never seen a HiVision LD with a separate AC-3 soundtrack.>>
    >
    > I didn't know if they had AC-3, but I was under the impression that
    > the X9 had an RF output for standard NTSC discs.
    >
    > <<HiVision has
    > its own multi-channel Audio encoding that is decoded in the MUSE
    > decoder.>>
    >
    > Interesting...how many speakers does this format support, and in what
    > configuration? Once the decoder decodes this special soundtrack, how
    > should a reciever handle it (pro-logic mode, stereo mode, etc...)? Can
    > the decoder be connected to a reciever via coaxial or toslink?
    >
  28. Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

    What model stereo are you using exactly?
  29. Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

    "Steven Grauman" <OneActor1@aol.com> wrote in message
    news:1105324580.300862.208530@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
    > <<Josh is correct. Another way is to have the 4 outputs of the MUSE
    > decoder sent to an external Dolby processor with such input and let
    > the
    > processor make a 5.1 out of it, send this to the amp.>>
    >
    > The Denon I'm currently using is an integrated processor and
    > multi-channel amp, it's all in one unit. It has 6-channel analog
    > inputs
    > on the back, which is what (I think) I'd need to use with the MUSE
    > decoder. What I'm not understanding is what "Mode" the reciever should
    > be set to when watching a MUSE movie. I can set it to Pro-Logic mode,
    > which auto detects Pro-Logic, Dolby Digital or DTS signals and
    > switches
    > itself accordingly, or I can set it for Stereo, "Direct", "5-Channel
    > Stereo" or any of several simulation modes such as Rock Concert and
    > Video Game. If I were feeding it with a MUSE decoder, I assume that I
    > would need it set to either Pro-Logic or "Direct" and I'm curious as
    > to
    > where it should be set.

    None of those "modes" apply to the 6-channel analog input. They are all
    bypassed and the receiver functions only as an amplifier. When you use
    this type of input, you do all of your decoding and processing
    externally.
  30. Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

    "Joshua Zyber" <jzyber@SPAMMERS-BITE-ME.mindspring.com> wrote in message
    news:ZgnEd.2520$C52.261@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
    > "Steven Grauman" <OneActor1@aol.com> wrote in message
    > news:1105324580.300862.208530@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
    > > <<Josh is correct. Another way is to have the 4 outputs of the MUSE
    > > decoder sent to an external Dolby processor with such input and let
    > > the
    > > processor make a 5.1 out of it, send this to the amp.>>
    > >
    > > The Denon I'm currently using is an integrated processor and
    > > multi-channel amp, it's all in one unit. It has 6-channel analog
    > > inputs
    > > on the back, which is what (I think) I'd need to use with the MUSE
    > > decoder. What I'm not understanding is what "Mode" the reciever should
    > > be set to when watching a MUSE movie. I can set it to Pro-Logic mode,
    > > which auto detects Pro-Logic, Dolby Digital or DTS signals and
    > > switches
    > > itself accordingly, or I can set it for Stereo, "Direct", "5-Channel
    > > Stereo" or any of several simulation modes such as Rock Concert and
    > > Video Game. If I were feeding it with a MUSE decoder, I assume that I
    > > would need it set to either Pro-Logic or "Direct" and I'm curious as
    > > to
    > > where it should be set.
    >
    > None of those "modes" apply to the 6-channel analog input. They are all
    > bypassed and the receiver functions only as an amplifier. When you use
    > this type of input, you do all of your decoding and processing
    > externally.
    >
    >
    There is a mode usually called something like "external direct", or
    "external pass-thru", in fact many newer pre/pros and/or receivers actually
    have a dedicated remote button.
  31. Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

    "Steven Grauman" <OneActor1@aol.com> wrote in message
    news:1105340774.055683.23950@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
    >I tried connecting the front right and left channel outputs from the
    > connectors on my DVD player to the front right and left inputs on my
    > reciever (and yes, I made sure I was using the multi-channel
    > connectors
    > and not the standard stereo outputs). I get sound through the front
    > speakers,

    The 6-channel analog inputs work as direct pathways to the corresponding
    speakers for each RCA jack. If you plug a cable into the Front Left
    jack, signal gets sent to the Front Left speaker and only the Front Left
    speaker. Likewise with the Front Right, etc. This is why ProLogic and
    other types of decoding are bypassed. With these inputs you should be
    connecting all 6 and doing your decoding externally. The external
    decoder will decide which sounds go to which speakers, not the receiver.

    > but I can't control the volume of the sound. Regardless of if
    > I have the unit set to -60 or +15, the volume is constant when running
    > with these inputs. When I go back to my toslink connection, everything
    > works normally and I can adjust the volume, I don't get it.

    Your master volume should be the only control that still works. This
    works fine on my Denon 3803.
  32. Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

    Oh, you finally found out that to change volume you have to turn the
    big knob ?
  33. Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

    <<Oh, you finally found out that to change volume you have to turn the
    big knob ?>>

    No, I found out that is was a bad connection. Nice attempt at humor
    though.
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