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T-Mobile Denies Throttling Unlimited 4G LTE Customers

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  1. I'm a telesales agent for t-mo.. We read the t&c and then even email it to the customer. In my opinion, if they're violating the terms then they should be punished for it.
  2. Quote:
    I'm a telesales agent for t-mo.. We read the t&c and then even email it to the customer. In my opinion, if they're violating the terms then they should be punished for it.


    Your opinion should have been caught in the interviewing process.... excluding you from employment. "Punish" and "customer" *never occur together in a successful business.
  3. Well, either the service is "unlimited" or it's not. If the purchaser of the service can not send and/ or receive data at full speed, 100% of the time, regardless of what that data is, it's hardly unlimited, and I hardly think T-Mobile should be able to advertise the service as such.
  4. A deliberate? bit of false advertising by T-Mobile?

    It would be foolish to believe that, for the everyday consumer, a genuinely 24/7 unlimited download plan - with full speed (the critical bit) - could possibly be maintained for any length of time. This simply doesn't exist outside expensive commercial set-up's.

    The actual policy will always be no different to all those current ISP's offering 'unlimited' downloads while enforcing 'fair policy usage', normally via time expired throttling.
  5. Quote:
    A deliberate? bit of false advertising by T-Mobile?

    It would be foolish to believe that, for the everyday consumer, a genuinely 24/7 unlimited download plan - with full speed (the critical bit) - could possibly be maintained for any length of time. This simply doesn't exist outside expensive commercial set-up's.

    The actual policy will always be no different to all those current ISP's offering 'unlimited' downloads while enforcing 'fair policy usage', normally via time expired throttling.


    There is no false advertising! What are you even talking about. You, bigpinkdragon286 and the rest of the people crying seem to have forgotten or lost the concept of "The Honor System".

    Every customer on T-mobile has unlimited access on data all the time as long as you do not abuse the service. T-Mobile clearly is stating what defines this abuse of service.

    I am so sorry that you want to download gobs of music attained illegal from the internet or movies. If you are using 300GB of data every month, that is already an abuse of data from T-Mobile. T-Mobile is not an ISP and doesn't advertise itself as one.

    God forbid a company put a cap on its customers that download movies and songs illegally. Why we are at it, why don't we cause a revolution and disband the government for prosecuting people that evade their taxes.

    Go back to the rock you crawled out of and re-address the issue of what it means to be truly unlimited. And unlike other providers, at least they have to courtesy to tell you you are the culprit than just out right bring your speed down. Show me another Carrier that does that? That is right you can not.

    So stop your complaining of... "I can not download my illegal crap."
  6. I don't pirate or illegally download things, but thanks for the assumption, Emanuel Elmo. I'm simply stating, if you are going to advertise something as being without limits, it should not have limits, whether those limits are arbitrary or based on good sound reasoning. It makes the advertisement blatantly false, or in other words, dishonest, or maybe even a lie. If you have ever dealt with the public much, you will soon realize that the honor system doesn't work well. So, maybe I should clarify with you a bit. I'm not against T-Mobile throttling the speeds of those it considers to be abusive - I'm against them advertising their service as unlimited, when clearly it's not.
  7. Quote:
    I don't pirate or illegally download things, but thanks for the assumption, Emanuel Elmo. I'm simply stating, if you are going to advertise something as being without limits, it should not have limits, whether those limits are arbitrary or based on good sound reasoning. It makes the advertisement blatantly false, or in other words, dishonest, or maybe even a lie. If you have ever dealt with the public much, you will soon realize that the honor system doesn't work well. So, maybe I should clarify with you a bit. I'm not against T-Mobile throttling the speeds of those it considers to be abusive - I'm against them advertising their service as unlimited, when clearly it's not.

    You seem a bit confused. T-Mobile advertises, and offers, a data plan that has no set limit to the amount of data you can consume. Which is entirely accurate. Nowhere does T-Mobile make the claim that their data plans are free to use for whatever purpose the customer sees fit. There are very clearly defined restrictions on the use of T-Mobile's data plans and every user receives a copy of T-Mobile's terms and conditions when they sign up.
  8. There is no such thing as unlimited anything. If you are hogging up excessive bandwidth that is seriously affecting customers in your area they will throttle you which is fair. I mean I am paying for service that works and if several folks are hogging it to the point I can't use the data service on my phone then they need to be throttled.
  9. Is there a way to prevent them from detecting that you are using bandwidth on p-2-p file sharing protocol? I suppose encryption isn't enough.
  10. Uhh, T-Mobile is not keeping up with their contract if this statement is true. The main reason I went with T-Mobile is because they throttle your connection once you reach your cap instead of charging per MB.
    With T-Mobile once you reach your monthly cap they reduce your 4G connection to a 2G connection.
  11. Quote:
    I don't pirate or illegally download things, but thanks for the assumption, Emanuel Elmo. I'm simply stating, if you are going to advertise something as being without limits, it should not have limits, whether those limits are arbitrary or based on good sound reasoning. It makes the advertisement blatantly false, or in other words, dishonest, or maybe even a lie. If you have ever dealt with the public much, you will soon realize that the honor system doesn't work well. So, maybe I should clarify with you a bit. I'm not against T-Mobile throttling the speeds of those it considers to be abusive - I'm against them advertising their service as unlimited, when clearly it's not.


    Thanks for assuming that "Unlimited data" and "Saturation" are the same thing. T-Mobile doesn't have a problem with you using data when and where you want. They have a problem if you decide to saturate the connection ie, use every available piece of throughput so you can download your torrents or let your 5 fans see you every minute of every day. Obviously you've never dealt with the public either, at least not with at any real level of significance. Tragedy of the commons, happens all the time. It doesn't matter what you say, unless you attach a huge set of conditions on everything some people will screw everyone else just so they can do something a little shady with a semantic argument. Thankfully T-Mobile is willing to swat these people down so the rest of us can listen to music, or watch a little TV on the way home.
  12. So, what you're saying is, T-Mobile can market and sell you a service you can't use as advertised? If T-Mobile has set the connection speeds for their users so high that they can not adequately serve other consumers when those connections become saturated, who really caused the problem? The consumer is not in control of the network access speeds.

    First you state that T-Mobile doesn't have a problem using data when and where you want, then you say they have a problem with saturating the connection. Umm, if you are transferring data, one would assume the connection, unless throttled, will run up to it's saturation point, always, which is the speed they have set your radio to transmit and receive on their network. So which is it? Do they care what you do with your connection and put limits on it, or don't they? Ultimately, they do care when and where you use data, and take actions against those who use more than what T-Mobile has determined to be reasonable. My only issue is with the use of the term unlimited, not with how T-Mobile is managing their network. When a downstream process begins, most ignorant users are never in charge of whether the connection becomes saturated, so why even bring that up? Downloads should take place at the highest rate available to minimize time on the network, but of course, there are always other variables to take into account. Holding the user accountable for things they don't necessarily have control over hardly makes sense.

    Here's a valid question though, what makes one's want to view "TV on the way home" or "listen to music" more important or reasonable than the want of another user, (and don't bring up shady activities, as there are plenty of legitimate activities that can saturate a connection)? Are you arguing for, or against the consumption of large amounts of bandwidth by saying one should be able to casually stream video, which happens to be a large consumer of bandwidth?
  13. Saturated towers is definitely an issue. Sometimes I work near Qualcomm's buildings in San Diego. When work is in session here, the cell speeds go to a crawl due to saturation. T-Mobile in particular is usually dropped from the tower. This phenomena is something outside the control of T-Mobile because they don't own the tower, merely lease data from it from its provider that prioritizes its network over partner networks.
  14. @bigpinkdragon286 - again, you seem to be confused. T-Mobile is not placing any limit on the AMOUNT of data you can consume. They, like every other mobile service, place restrictions on WHAT you can use the data connection for. Verizon plans to "throttle" customers based on data usage. T-Mobile is only intending to throttle those that are using their mobile data plan for purposes expressly prohibited in their T&C, which every customer is provided a copy of. At no time has T-Mobile ever advertised their data plans as not having restrictions on usage. Their plans are advertised very clearly as having no hard set data cap. If you have an unlimited 4G data plan, you can consume all the data you want on their 4G network as long as you're doing so within the guidelines of the T&C which expressly prohibit certain activities. They are in no way falsely advertising their data plans.
  15. "They, like every other mobile service, place restrictions on WHAT you can use the data connection for"
    This is the part I have a problem with.

    Should the water company tell me what I can use the water for?
    Filling my pool, watering my lawn, bathing vs showering

    Should the electricity company tell me what I can use the electricity for?
    Should I pay an upcharge if I use a bigger TV?
  16. "Should the water company tell me what I can use the water for?
    Filling my pool, watering my lawn, bathing vs showering"

    Good try using metered services to make an argument about an unlimited service. Please try again...
  17. Quote:
    "They, like every other mobile service, place restrictions on WHAT you can use the data connection for"
    This is the part I have a problem with.

    Should the water company tell me what I can use the water for?
    Filling my pool, watering my lawn, bathing vs showering

    Should the electricity company tell me what I can use the electricity for?
    Should I pay an upcharge if I use a bigger TV?


    You are using metered services to make an argument about an unlimited service offering. Please try again...
  18. I frequently hit over 90 - 120GB per month on my phone through T-Mobile. I love the speed and the unlimited connection. I love Netflix and Crunchy Roll lol!
  19. I go over 100GB regularly. I love Netflix/CrunchyRoll!
  20. Quote:
    Well, either the service is "unlimited" or it's not. If the purchaser of the service can not send and/ or receive data at full speed, 100% of the time, regardless of what that data is, it's hardly unlimited, and I hardly think T-Mobile should be able to advertise the service as such.


    But they also have a T&C in place that says what you cant do, and what they CAN do to you if you break the terms.
  21. Darkk said:
    There is no such thing as unlimited anything...

    Precisely, so why advertised as such? The theoretical limit is the maximum data speed you can connect to T-Mobile's network at multiplied by the amount of time between billing cycles. But if they choose to throttle you for "abuse," the theoretical limit is now far below what it used to be, which is even further from being unlimited.

    Anonymous said:
    I frequently hit over 90 - 120GB per month on my phone through T-Mobile. I love the speed and the unlimited connection. I love Netflix and Crunchy Roll lol!

    And now you have to ask yourself, why do they not care about services such as video or radio? Because more than likely they can extract a kickback or fee from other companies for getting proper time on their network, although this was never my point. I've only ever been against the use of the term unlimited in T-Mobile's advertising, which everybody seems to need to turn into some sort of moral argument about piracy or otherwise abusive bandwidth usage. At which point does a user's streaming of videos become abusive? When it's nothing but cat meme's on YouTube instead of the particular video services T-Mobile may be able to recoup operating expenses from, or something other people find more fulfilling? :-) Just because you disagree with the particular usage, or dislike it, doesn't mean it's abusive.

    The data network itself could certainly care less which order the bits are in that it's transferring. Whether they are ordered for one thing or another, should not constitute abuse.
  22. Anonymous said:
    Quote:
    Well, either the service is "unlimited" or it's not. If the purchaser of the service can not send and/ or receive data at full speed, 100% of the time, regardless of what that data is, it's hardly unlimited, and I hardly think T-Mobile should be able to advertise the service as such.


    But they also have a T&C in place that says what you cant do, and what they CAN do to you if you break the terms.


    So, basically, the T&C are there to do what? Clarify what is meant by the misuse of the word unlimited, and allow the network managers to retain some control over their network without legal ramifications of the unlimited advertising claims.
  23. Unlimited DOES NOT= bandwidth/throttling. End of discussion.

    If you understand technology definitions, the title concludes the blatant misunderstanding of TomsHardware toward its readers...

    "T-Mobile Denies Throttling Unlimited 4G LTE Customers"
    Throttling = limiting bandwidth/in the name of good usually to allow everyone access and not let JoeShmoe take all the bandwidth from everyone else, as mentioned in comments.
    Unlimited = no cap on download amount, doesn't mean the bandwidth will be the best you ever got and never go down... lol...

    FIN! ,, but if your not satisfied, see below:

    Has anyone thought for a minute the location/time/source-destination of file transfer/saturation on source device pushing the file out/"supposed" throttle amount of said throttling/how many hops away was file./are you on the highway driving/IN TRAFFIC/ i can go on and on..... those towers can only handle so much..as falchard mentioned.

    and for your example of water pipes, IT IS A perfect example. If the city can provide lets say 100 gallons per second. and I have 100 people with their faucets on, what do you get.. (actually less then a gallon each, because you need pressure to push the water)

    Think about the question before answering. way too much assuming, and for the metered VS unlimited argument. the water will always drip.. so water service is actually unlimited, just the bandwidth will depend on conditions(i.e others with faucet/shower running)

    And NO you cant hide the amount of data that passes... LOL, impossible. DATA is DATA, encrypted or not.. packet/data counters on every interface along the way...

    MORE FOR THOUGHT: Wireless is a half-duplex technology. look that up.. the saturation issue on towers is real. wireless vs wire saturation increase twice as fast as wire. half VS full duplex....

    as others have stated, Tmobile is only telling illegal down loaders that they will be throttled, not cut off, not capped, throttled if they continue.. seems real fucking fair to me....


    FIN!
  24. tonytroubleshooter said:
    Unlimited DOES NOT= bandwidth/throttling. End of discussion.
    Calm down there partner. The T-Mobile rate plan sheet makes it clear that you get limited 4G LTE data amounts on other plans, and that you get unlimited 4G LTE data on the "unlimited" plan. That makes it clear that all of the data can be reasonably expected to transmit at whatever minimum 4G LTE speed T-Mobile offers.

    If a customer signs a contract for and expects unlimited 4G LTE data, because that's precisely what T-Mobile advertises, and is then throttled to 2G connection speeds because they violated some T&C they may not have understood, read, or even know pertain to precisely what can and can't be transferred using the telephone, that is pretty severe, as they're likely still stuck in the contract unless they wish to pay a termination fee. T-Mobile's T&C are not the problem. Their use of the word unlimited is. As soon as you apply T&C to a service, it is no longer unlimited and it's blatantly dishonest to advertise it as such by the very definition of the word. It doesn't matter if the limit is on speed or data at that point, it's still a limit. The plan lists 4G LTE data as unlimited, which means, the person has a reasonable expectation of the minimum speed they should be able to maintain.

    If you really want to split hairs, why don't we just say that shutting a service off entirely is nothing more than 100% throttling. Is this really okay to maintain a network? It's still just throttling. What level of throttling is okay, 90%, 75%, or even 25%? I'm sure we can argue what is reasonable and unreasonable throttling until we turn blue. Throttling is a simple way of imposing data limits, without having to actually call it a data limit, as it directly dictates the total throughput a connection is capable of, in the case of T-Mobile, between billing cycles.

    tonytroubleshooter said:
    MORE FOR THOUGHT: Wireless is a half-duplex technology. look that up.. the saturation issue on towers is real. wireless vs wire saturation increase twice as fast as wire. half VS full duplex....
    How does the duplex of wireless apply to the topic here?

    tonytroubleshooter said:
    Think about the question before answering. way too much assuming, and for the metered VS unlimited argument. the water will always drip.. so water service is actually unlimited, just the bandwidth will depend on conditions(i.e others with faucet/shower running)
    Did the water utility market and sell their service to you based on the water pressure they would make available to you, or the total number of gallons you could use per billing cycle? Were there any T&C hidden away in fine print that stated, if you use more than an arbitrary number of gallons, your pressure will be reduced?

    The end of the article says a lot. Both Verizon and T-Mobile are looking to implement throttling of their unlimited 4G LTE customers very soon, and the FCC has taken notice of this. My own personal opinion is that the marketing team got a tad out of touch with the management and engineering of their network team. Is the customer to blame, and should the customer be punished, if the owners of a network oversold it? Overselling is hardly an unheard of practice, but this may be a case where it bites them, especially if the FCC has the wherewithal to actually do something for those consumers.

    I think the only true cure for abusers of bandwidth will be metered connections. When folks finally pay a rate that is proportional to their usage, the telecom companies won't have much need for throttling anymore. I just don't like the thought of the robber barons being the ones to set the rates.
  25. bigpinkdragon286 said:
    I don't pirate or illegally download things, but thanks for the assumption, Emanuel Elmo. I'm simply stating, if you are going to advertise something as being without limits, it should not have limits, whether those limits are arbitrary or based on good sound reasoning. It makes the advertisement blatantly false, or in other words, dishonest, or maybe even a lie. If you have ever dealt with the public much, you will soon realize that the honor system doesn't work well. So, maybe I should clarify with you a bit. I'm not against T-Mobile throttling the speeds of those it considers to be abusive - I'm against them advertising their service as unlimited, when clearly it's not.


    bigpinkdragon286 said:
    So, what you're saying is, T-Mobile can market and sell you a service you can't use as advertised? If T-Mobile has set the connection speeds for their users so high that they can not adequately serve other consumers when those connections become saturated, who really caused the problem? The consumer is not in control of the network access speeds.

    First you state that T-Mobile doesn't have a problem using data when and where you want, then you say they have a problem with saturating the connection. Umm, if you are transferring data, one would assume the connection, unless throttled, will run up to it's saturation point, always, which is the speed they have set your radio to transmit and receive on their network. So which is it? Do they care what you do with your connection and put limits on it, or don't they? Ultimately, they do care when and where you use data, and take actions against those who use more than what T-Mobile has determined to be reasonable. My only issue is with the use of the term unlimited, not with how T-Mobile is managing their network. When a downstream process begins, most ignorant users are never in charge of whether the connection becomes saturated, so why even bring that up? Downloads should take place at the highest rate available to minimize time on the network, but of course, there are always other variables to take into account. Holding the user accountable for things they don't necessarily have control over hardly makes sense.

    Here's a valid question though, what makes one's want to view "TV on the way home" or "listen to music" more important or reasonable than the want of another user, (and don't bring up shady activities, as there are plenty of legitimate activities that can saturate a connection)? Are you arguing for, or against the consumption of large amounts of bandwidth by saying one should be able to casually stream video, which happens to be a large consumer of bandwidth?


    You are welcome for my assumption as people that usually pirate and feel free to download hoards of data from a cell provider feel exactly as you. My assumption stand and unless you can prove to me otherwise, you sir is the reason why T-mobile is doing what they are doing.

    You also do not have proper guidelines or at least an honor system set up in your mind. Cause I read your comments and I start to laugh. I mean seriously laugh.

    here is a definition of unlimited: not limited or restricted in terms of number, quantity, or extent.
    here is the definition of casual: not regular or permanent, in particular.

    oh and just in-case, cause I know you will make an argument that extent can mean "content". Lets evaluate the definition of extent: the area covered by something.

    do you even understand any of these. As you can clearly see, the definition of unlimited does not include "Content" So let me rephrase you twit. T-Mobile offers unlimited data of number, quantity, and or extent but does not offer unlimited data on content. Therefore there definition of unlimited and what they are offering consumers is spot on.
    Your only problem now is that you can not eat gobs of data downloading your illegal music, movies, and porn.

    I listen to pandora off of my Unlimited plan from t-mobile every day. I surface the net, I stream netflix, check e-mails, upload my quick edited photos to the cloud for clients, etc. Guess what, I never ever ever go over 16GB of data a month and guess what never did it get throttled. You want to know why? Cause I do not abuse my connection.

    T-Mobile is in no where accountable to by your ISP. That is why you have TimeWarner, AT&T, Cox, Verizon, etc. Just because you may not like those services and choose to use your data from your phone as an ISP still does not entitle T-mobile to be your ISP because, and here is the kicker, THEY DO NOT ADVERTISE THEMSELVES AS ONE.

    So get off of your high horse of your false advertising and re-evaluate your life and grow up and start to understand what certain words actually mean. Life is tough get a helmet.
  26. Emanuel Elmo said:
    ... Guess what, I never ever ever go over 16GB of data a month and guess what never did it get throttled. You want to know why? Cause I do not abuse my connection...


    I'm sorry you feel the need to name-call, but can you understand how pointlessly arbitrary it is to label some data usage abusive and other data usage non-abusive, without first defining a standard? The reason you don't get throttled is because you have not violated the T&C of your contract, not because you're a non-abusive user. No amount of data usage can be considered abusive if the plan was contracted as having no limits for data consumption. Any customer has the right to use his unlimited account as he sees fit, period, whether anybody considers it abusive or not. The only thing that should be getting customers throttled is violating the contracted T&C.
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