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Dual AMD Radeon R9 295X2 Graphics Cards On A 1000W PSU

Tags:
  • Graphics Cards
  • Power Supplies
  • Be Quiet!
  • Components
  • Graphics
Last response: in Reviews comments
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August 26, 2014 11:56:27 PM

We previously measured the gaming power consumption of two AMD Radeon R9 295X2 graphics cards at 450 W, but other sites arrived at different numbers. We put our measurements to the test with a 1000 W PSU in a sweltering 30 degree Celsius environment!

Dual AMD Radeon R9 295X2 Graphics Cards On A 1000W PSU : Read more

More about : dual amd radeon 295x2 graphics cards 1000w psu

a b U Graphics card
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August 27, 2014 12:21:25 AM

Where are the rest of the pages to this review?
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August 27, 2014 12:39:36 AM

why would you deliberately run these cards in 30 degree room? i know why because you want to bring on throttling so you have something to complain about, why because you are nvidia biased and have been for to long a period of time. Ive been reading toms since it started way back in the 90's. But i am becoming sick of the brand bias shown in many reviews. Keep to the facts - real facts about real world situations, if as we all know cards are hot and power hungry run them with an appropriate psu in the appropriate conditions... PS if you can buy 2x295 you can and will afford to run your "expletive" air conditioning!!!!
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Related resources
August 27, 2014 1:14:41 AM

If I had the money to do this stunt... this is for the nerds and geeks who hate Mother nature (and embrace the Industrial Age).
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August 27, 2014 3:21:30 AM

Did you even read anything past the bolded intro Johnny? The entire point of this "review" had nothing to do with the GPU benchmarks, it was all about what the required wattage is for the 295X2. I'll summarize this article for you and anyone else that just skims it: 295X2 doesn't require as much wattage as other sites may say, but does require certain high quality components only found on specific PSUs.

Also it wasn't even mentioned that the GPU was hitting its throttling temp, at only 8 degrees higher ambient than the review for these GPUs it's likely that they weren't hitting their ceiling of 75 degrees. Here's the page I'm talking about if you want to check: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-r9-295x2-rev...
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August 27, 2014 3:23:48 AM

Edit, double post >_<
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August 27, 2014 3:31:24 AM

Johnny Beacon said:
why would you deliberately run these cards in 30 degree room? i know why because you want to bring on throttling so you have something to complain about, why because you are nvidia biased and have been for to long a period of time. Ive been reading toms since it started way back in the 90's. But i am becoming sick of the brand bias shown in many reviews. Keep to the facts - real facts about real world situations, if as we all know cards are hot and power hungry run them with an appropriate psu in the appropriate conditions... PS if you can buy 2x295 you can and will afford to run your "expletive" air conditioning!!!!


Don`t act stupid, some people do live in 30 degree environments ...and having such a card not being able to run in a 30°C room is a serious argument against it. And i do love AMD since my whole rig is based on AMD only but your comment is ridiculous.
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August 27, 2014 4:58:09 AM

ohim said:
Don`t act stupid, some people do live in 30 degree environments ...and having such a card not being able to run in a 30°C room is a serious argument against it.

Exactly.

Just about any place on Earth except polar caps can have 30-40C days during their summer season and not everyone has AC or runs it continuously. I run my AC mostly for dehumidifaction; on a dry 35C day, I do not usually bother to start it - between the AC's noise and the heat, I prefer the heat as long as it is dry.
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August 27, 2014 5:17:22 AM

Anyone come across a way to boost radiator fan and pump speeds to minimize throttling?

OPs are complaining about early throttling of these things.
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August 27, 2014 5:49:39 AM

Quote:
why would you deliberately run these cards in 30 degree room? i know why because you want to bring on throttling so you have something to complain about, why because you are nvidia biased and have been for to long a period of time. Ive been reading toms since it started way back in the 90's. But i am becoming sick of the brand bias shown in many reviews. Keep to the facts - real facts about real world situations, if as we all know cards are hot and power hungry run them with an appropriate psu in the appropriate conditions... PS if you can buy 2x295 you can and will afford to run your "expletive" air conditioning!!!!

I don't even know where to start with this. Tom's didn't run GPU performance benchmarks, they didn't complain about GPU throttling, they fully disclosed the testing environment, and they ended the article by saying POSITIVE things about the R9 295X2. Likewise, their original review of the 295X2 was also generally positive.

They ran the test at 30°C because it is a torture test, its meant to reflect a worst-case scenario. Experiments solely designed around real usage don't tell us anything about the real limitations of these products, and that is very useful information.

If you've really been reading this site since the 90's, surely you'd have noticed a Best Graphics Cards For The Money article once or twice, which are generally dominated by AMD cards.
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August 27, 2014 7:14:12 AM

You mention testing with a Corsair AX860i, which seems under powered for a setup that pulls ~1000W. Your PSU reviews usually have high praise for Corsair products, but that specific test seemed designed to fail. Have you considered testing with a Corsair model in the appropriate Wattage range? Say for instance the HX1050 (80+ Gold) or the HX1000i (80+ Platinum)?
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August 27, 2014 7:25:36 AM


Quote:
why would you deliberately run these cards in 30 degree room? i know why because you want to bring on throttling so you have something to complain about, why because you are nvidia biased and have been for to long a period of time. Ive been reading toms since it started way back in the 90's. But i am becoming sick of the brand bias shown in many reviews. Keep to the facts - real facts about real world situations, if as we all know cards are hot and power hungry run them with an appropriate psu in the appropriate conditions... PS if you can buy 2x295 you can and will afford to run your "expletive" air conditioning!!!!


FYI, I have a 290X and I live in Egypt where it sometimes reaches 40C in the shade. So, 30C is very realistic. My computer's position in the house makes it very difficult to install air conditioning without redecorating the place. BTW, I don't think they're being biased at all when they mention the disadvantages of the products they're testing. When they tell you that the 290X review sample differs from every reference board on the market, they're not being biased. When they tell you that you need to either have a good pair of headphones or you need to buy a custom cooler and void your warranty just to be able to live with the card's noise, they're not being biased. I remember they strongly disapproved of Nvidia's decision to disable PhysX an AMD card was detected. They also warned us about an Nvidia driver that fried many GTX 295s IIRC. And here they're just telling you that the two 295s can run at 30C without thermal throttling and don't need more than 1000Watts of power. Aside from the $1500 price point, 295X is a great card.

Finally, Lighten up man and take it easy
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August 27, 2014 7:37:18 AM

Daniel Ladishew said:
You mention testing with a Corsair AX860i, which seems under powered for a setup that pulls ~1000W. Your PSU reviews usually have high praise for Corsair products, but that specific test seemed designed to fail. Have you considered testing with a Corsair model in the appropriate Wattage range? Say for instance the HX1050 (80+ Gold) or the HX1000i (80+ Platinum)?

The specific comment about the Corsair AX860i in the article mentioned it being destroyed by a single 295X2, not a pair of them.

"Then again, we can also remember situations when a single AMD Radeon R9 295X2 managed to shut down a PSU (PCGH, 1200W Enermax Platimax), or even destroy it outright (Tom's Hardware, Corsair AX860i). In these cases, the power supplies should have had more than enough capacity to handle the hardware."
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August 27, 2014 7:45:18 AM

oxiide said:
They ran the test at 30°C because it is a torture test, its meant to reflect a worst-case scenario.

I would not call 30C a "torture test" since this is normal or even below room temperature for many people during summer. At most, I would call 30C a somewhat optimistic real-world scenario - giving those 295Xs a fighting chance.

A real torture test would start around 40C - a temperature only the hottest habitable climates reach on a somewhat regular basis and few sane people would live in without AC by choice.
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August 27, 2014 9:28:49 AM

So can my seasonic x series 1050 handle both of them..or even 780ti or 295x cf ?
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August 27, 2014 9:50:58 AM

I'm baffled by the percentage of comments pretending to be based on the article, even though they aren't based on the article at all. Skipping words and rushing through sentences isn't reading. It's guessing what an article might say based on partial information.
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August 27, 2014 12:16:12 PM

Quote:
So can my seasonic x series 1050 handle both of them..or even 780ti or 295x cf ?


I think so because the +12V rail is rated @87A while the Be Quiet! Power Zone used in the article is rated for "only" 83A on the +12V rail. Also the X-1050 is 80 Plus Gold Rated while the Be Quiet! PSU is 80 Plus Bronze. I also own the X-1050 so I guess that's good news for me If I feel the desire to upgrade my 290X
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August 27, 2014 1:38:38 PM

Daniel Ladishew said:
You mention testing with a Corsair AX860i, which seems under powered for a setup that pulls ~1000W.
The real question is which of these tests is right? The results directly contradict each other. Either a 860W power supply is enough or it isn't.

The Corsair AX860i is very well reviewed. It should be able to run one of these cards. I'd like to know what happened.
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August 27, 2014 2:00:35 PM

rayden54 said:
Daniel Ladishew said:
You mention testing with a Corsair AX860i, which seems under powered for a setup that pulls ~1000W.
The real question is which of these tests is right? The results directly contradict each other. Either a 860W power supply is enough or it isn't.

The Corsair AX860i is very well reviewed. It should be able to run one of these cards. I'd like to know what happened.


The AX860i seems to have worked in other tests online. From personal experience with that power supply in my own rig, I can say that I've had it run 2x780ti in SLI with a 750ti on PhysX and everything else in my signature. It was fine. I think that more than shows that the AX860i can run a single R9-295x2 unless something unexpected occurs. Also, I think the fact that Tom's ran two of them on a 1KW PSU shows the same thing.
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August 27, 2014 2:08:02 PM

rayden54 said:
The Corsair AX860i is very well reviewed. It should be able to run one of these cards. I'd like to know what happened.

The AX860 that blew up was with a single 295X2; proof that even well-reviewed units can have unexpected failures.

Either a faulty unit or possibly a design flaw that only triggers under some circumstances.
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August 27, 2014 2:48:07 PM

cant one just use 2x 550-650w psu's for this kind of setup ?it may be a bit easier to manage the heavy power draw from these cards
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August 27, 2014 2:58:18 PM

InvalidError said:
rayden54 said:
The Corsair AX860i is very well reviewed. It should be able to run one of these cards. I'd like to know what happened.

The AX860 that blew up was with a single 295X2; proof that even well-reviewed units can have unexpected failures.

Either a faulty unit or possibly a design flaw that only triggers under some circumstances.
Yes, but I wonder where the fault was.

It's possible that the 295X2 does under certain circumstances draw more power than what's mentioned in this review. Though to jump from 400W to 850W sounds odd. I don't know if it'd be best to have a stronger power supply that might ride out the spikes (if that's what's happening) or .... Dunno.
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August 27, 2014 3:14:05 PM

Wonder if they test at 45C whether you can use a 600W PSU? They would hardly get used because they'd temp throttle before powering up.
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August 27, 2014 3:26:22 PM

The be quiet! PSU is bronze rated while both the Corsair and Enermax are both Platinum rated. Corsair pushed up daises and Enermax previously thought it had fainted, but turns out it was the motherboard. How did you guys find out it was the board and not that Enermax PSU, is there some sort of utility or equipment to help you out?
From the looks of it, that be Quiet PSU is extremely well built and these Olympic style rating for the PSU is nothing but a marketing strategy just to mark up the price of a PSU?
Efficiency =/= Quality
How about testing it out with that Corsair 1500w Titanium?
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August 27, 2014 4:39:45 PM

PS: no i did not read past the first few lines - i was particularly shitty with the flu and read the opening bit got to the 30degree C bit and lost my shit.

Yes i have been reading toms ever since i o/c my p133 to 166@83mhz back in 95. The articles written about the 290/290x here where overly negative - the cards being cherry picked was shown on other sites not to be true, yet that myth still persists. Also the fan noise and heat issue being referenced long after none reference coolers eliminated all off those shortcomings of the reference design.

I would have thought that the great performance and fantastic price of the 290's should have taken centre stage. After running a 290 gb windforce oc for several months now how can anyone not be impressed by the performance per dollar.
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August 27, 2014 4:52:31 PM

PS: no i did not read past the first few lines - i was particularly shitty with the flu and read the opening bit got to the 30degree C bit and lost my shit.

Yes i have been reading toms ever since i o/c my p133 to 166@83mhz back in 95. The articles written about the 290/290x here where overly negative - the cards being cherry picked was shown on other sites not to be true, yet that myth still persists. Also the fan noise and heat issue being referenced long after none reference coolers eliminated all off those shortcomings of the reference design.

I would have thought that the great performance and fantastic price of the 290's should have taken centre stage. After running a 290 gb windforce oc for several months now how can anyone not be impressed by the performance per dollar.
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August 27, 2014 4:53:17 PM

PS: no i did not read past the first few lines - i was particularly shitty with the flu and read the opening bit got to the 30degree C bit and lost my shit.

Yes i have been reading toms ever since i o/c my p133 to 166@83mhz back in 95. The articles written about the 290/290x here where overly negative - the cards being cherry picked was shown on other sites not to be true, yet that myth still persists. Also the fan noise and heat issue being referenced long after none reference coolers eliminated all off those shortcomings of the reference design.

I would have thought that the great performance and fantastic price of the 290's should have taken centre stage. After running a 290 gb windforce oc for several months now how can anyone not be impressed by the performance per dollar.
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August 27, 2014 5:04:10 PM

rayden54 said:
It's possible that the 295X2 does under certain circumstances draw more power than what's mentioned in this review. Though to jump from 400W to 850W sounds odd. I don't know if it'd be best to have a stronger power supply that might ride out the spikes (if that's what's happening) or .... Dunno.

The R9-295X2 does not spike much beyond 400W and even if it did somehow manage to reach 800W, over-current and over-power protections in the PSU are supposed to prevent the PSU from self-destructing because of that.

So, the PSU self-destructing still means something has gone wrong with it regardless of what the 295X2 did.

To pass ATX2.03 certification, PSUs are supposed to gracefully handle overloads so a quality PSU self-destructing is one of those things that are not supposed to happen..
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a c 158 U Graphics card
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August 27, 2014 5:38:16 PM

30 degrees C seems like a pretty valid room temperature test in many environments.
The hardware for a home PC should be able to handle anything from 0 to 40 degrees C if you want it to work on the hottest and coldest days in many environments without air conditioning or heating.

If the idea was to prove that a 1000W power supply was really suitable to run two of these cards though, the issue is that the cards would likely pull more current at lower ambient temperatures because they could dissipate more heat while staying under the same thermal ceiling.
Aside from that, how long do you expect a power supply to last if it is being loaded close to 100% of capacity for extended periods?
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August 27, 2014 7:29:28 PM

VincentP said:
Aside from that, how long do you expect a power supply to last if it is being loaded close to 100% of capacity for extended periods?

When you pay something like $150 and up for a PSU, I would expect no less than full continuous rated output for the whole warranty period: you can already upgrade a $30 gutless wonder from something worthless to something that will last over a decade with only $3 worth of parts and it would cost cheap PSU manufacturers less than $0.50 to put better parts in so you don't have to. $100+ PSUs have no excuses for any such corner-cutting.

It is really amazing how there are still so many sub-par PSUs on the market when it takes so little to make them orders of magnitude better.
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a c 177 U Graphics card
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August 27, 2014 7:33:20 PM

Johnny Beacon said:
why would you deliberately run these cards in 30 degree room? i know why because you want to bring on throttling so you have something to complain about, why because you are nvidia biased and have been for to long a period of time. Ive been reading toms since it started way back in the 90's. But i am becoming sick of the brand bias shown in many reviews. Keep to the facts - real facts about real world situations, if as we all know cards are hot and power hungry run them with an appropriate psu in the appropriate conditions... PS if you can buy 2x295 you can and will afford to run your "expletive" air conditioning!!!!


in summer in southern Australia where i live, the outside temp hovers between 30-40c roughly. So on a 40C day outside your air con is doing well if it keeps the inside of your house to 30c. now go inside the case of your PC if the ambient temp is 30c and your looking at 35-40c inside the case near the gpu with reasonable airflow. I think testing it at 30c is more than resonable as most peoples in-case temps would be between 25-30 in a climate controlled room, depending on their geographical location.
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August 27, 2014 8:46:17 PM

Quote:
PS: no i did not read past the first few lines - i was particularly **** with the flu and read the opening bit got to the 30degree C bit and lost my ****


1) Cussing gets your point or excuse nowhere.

2) I can read when sick in bed, and if fact I do because it helps me take my mind off being sick. Don't kid yourself and think you are fooling others that your short attention span and rabid AMD'ism aren't to blame for your shooting from the hip and you making a complete fool of yourself on Tom's.
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August 27, 2014 10:08:21 PM

Considering the ambient temperature in my area goes near or above 30 degrees, this article was something that has allayed my fears. Thanks! Much appreciated! Temps may hit 40 degrees or more in summer is also worrisome but I don't think I'm that worried since I may be keeping the room cool, anyways!
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August 27, 2014 10:20:48 PM

Where Iam live. hit 51ºc on shade. Humidity about 75% AMD Card live's forever and nvidia gpus die on months... Still running a 4770, 4870 and 6970. My gtx 670 give me some trouble in 6 months. I can't put inside of my rig These 3 fans card. I can only put the Jet engine. because the heat Kill my motherboards. I love the 290x but i can't afford. Here the 290x has the price of 1100 us!
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August 28, 2014 2:06:04 AM

Interesting. Are we going to see you bench all cards @ 30°C ambient? Or is this just a "Let's make the 295X2 throttle article veiled as a PSU article?
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August 28, 2014 5:01:37 AM

oxiide said:
Quote:
why would you deliberately run these cards in 30 degree room? i know why because you want to bring on throttling so you have something to complain about, why because you are nvidia biased and have been for to long a period of time. Ive been reading toms since it started way back in the 90's. But i am becoming sick of the brand bias shown in many reviews. Keep to the facts - real facts about real world situations, if as we all know cards are hot and power hungry run them with an appropriate psu in the appropriate conditions... PS if you can buy 2x295 you can and will afford to run your "expletive" air conditioning!!!!

I don't even know where to start with this. Tom's didn't run GPU performance benchmarks, they didn't complain about GPU throttling, they fully disclosed the testing environment, and they ended the article by saying POSITIVE things about the R9 295X2. Likewise, their original review of the 295X2 was also generally positive.

They ran the test at 30°C because it is a torture test, its meant to reflect a worst-case scenario. Experiments solely designed around real usage don't tell us anything about the real limitations of these products, and that is very useful information.

If you've really been reading this site since the 90's, surely you'd have noticed a Best Graphics Cards For The Money article once or twice, which are generally dominated by AMD cards.


30°C isn't a torture test for a PSU. Any decent one can put out it's full rating at 40°C and really good ones at 50°C. It is an abnormally high temp to be testing GPU's at though. Any reference high end card, especially dual GPU, will throttle at that temp.

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August 28, 2014 5:52:42 AM

Quote:
Did you even read anything past the bolded intro Johnny? The entire point of this "review" had nothing to do with the GPU benchmarks, it was all about what the required wattage is for the 295X2. I'll summarize this article for you and anyone else that just skims it: 295X2 doesn't require as much wattage as other sites may say, but does require certain high quality components only found on specific PSUs.

Also it wasn't even mentioned that the GPU was hitting its throttling temp, at only 8 degrees higher ambient than the review for these GPUs it's likely that they weren't hitting their ceiling of 75 degrees. Here's the page I'm talking about if you want to check: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-r9-295x2-rev...


I think the article says the problem is related to the motherboard being unable to cope with power load peaks on the power supplied to the cards through the PCIE connector itself...
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August 28, 2014 7:54:35 AM

Relayer said:

It is an abnormally high temp to be testing GPU's at though. Any reference high end card, especially dual GPU, will throttle at that temp.

30C in an open-frame test setup is likely still a fair bit cooler than the cards would get if they were in a closed case inside a room air-conditioned to 20C.

It may not allow the setup to perform to its absolute best but it is a close-enough approximation of how most people would end up using it in real-life.
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August 29, 2014 12:14:49 AM

Quote:
Did you even read anything past the bolded intro Johnny? The entire point of this "review" had nothing to do with the GPU benchmarks, it was all about what the required wattage is for the 295X2. I'll summarize this article for you and anyone else that just skims it: 295X2 doesn't require as much wattage as other sites may say, but does require certain high quality components only found on specific PSUs.


This is a very interesting piece, and highly important to avoid costly damages. The way it's presented by Tomshardware and knowledgeable Igor Wallosek leaves much to be desired, however.

So here goes to Tomshardware:

First, an article that requires a summary in the comments sections is in need of, guess what, a WRITTEN summary.

Second, the growing habit of publishing the content only in video form represents a waste of time because it takes longer to watch the video than to read the text. Time to load it, time to view it. In addition reviewing pieces take time, or backtracking takes time, and may be complicated. I don't have that luxury of time.

Third, I would like to see a WRITTEN list of PSU:s that work with the card based on those "certain high quality components." It would be beneficial to also in WRITING state what those components are.
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August 29, 2014 12:15:58 AM

Quote:
Did you even read anything past the bolded intro Johnny? The entire point of this "review" had nothing to do with the GPU benchmarks, it was all about what the required wattage is for the 295X2. I'll summarize this article for you and anyone else that just skims it: 295X2 doesn't require as much wattage as other sites may say, but does require certain high quality components only found on specific PSUs.


This is a very interesting piece, and highly important to avoid costly damages. The way it's presented by Tomshardware and knowledgeable Igor Wallosek leaves much to be desired, however.

So here goes to Tomshardware:

First, an article that requires a summary in the comments sections is in need of, guess what, a WRITTEN summary.

Second, the growing habit of publishing the content only in video form represents a waste of time because it takes longer to watch the video than to read the text. Time to load it, time to view it. In addition reviewing pieces take time, or backtracking takes time, and may be complicated. I don't have that luxury of time.

Third, I would like to see a WRITTEN list of PSU:s that work with the card based on those "certain high quality components." It would be beneficial to also in WRITING state what those components are.
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August 29, 2014 12:16:50 AM

BTW, the video link is just a blank, which makes my previous comments even more pertinent.
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August 29, 2014 1:26:45 AM

I live and use my PC in a 30-Deg C environment in Japan sometimes.
Sometimes we are requested by central government not to use air-conditioning in summer because of Earthquake damage and energy shortages.
I use a platinum PSU.
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August 29, 2014 2:13:35 AM

gadgety said:
Quote:
Did you even read anything past the bolded intro Johnny? The entire point of this "review" had nothing to do with the GPU benchmarks, it was all about what the required wattage is for the 295X2. I'll summarize this article for you and anyone else that just skims it: 295X2 doesn't require as much wattage as other sites may say, but does require certain high quality components only found on specific PSUs.


This is a very interesting piece, and highly important to avoid costly damages. The way it's presented by Tomshardware and knowledgeable Igor Wallosek leaves much to be desired, however.

So here goes to Tomshardware:

First, an article that requires a summary in the comments sections is in need of, guess what, a WRITTEN summary.

Second, the growing habit of publishing the content only in video form represents a waste of time because it takes longer to watch the video than to read the text. Time to load it, time to view it. In addition reviewing pieces take time, or backtracking takes time, and may be complicated. I don't have that luxury of time.

Third, I would like to see a WRITTEN list of PSU:s that work with the card based on those "certain high quality components." It would be beneficial to also in WRITING state what those components are.


The content is text and photos. The included video is just the test setup.
Tom's Hardware lists tested power supplies in the R9 295X2 review.
AMD also publishes a list of qualified power supplies.
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August 29, 2014 4:16:09 AM

I wish tomsHardware reviews GPUs and CPUs in hotboxes at 35 deg C. My room temperature hits 40 deg C in summer
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August 30, 2014 12:15:50 AM

chimera201 said:
I wish tomsHardware reviews GPUs and CPUs in hotboxes at 35 deg C. My room temperature hits 40 deg C in summer


Man; thats brain-frying temps (serious).
Careful you dont end up like one of those hot country nuts (medically speaking).

So, totally agree with you; I have said for years that when they design computers they always do it at a stock 17-Dec C or similar in some lab or other. Its completely unrealistic for the real world of at least half of users.

That said, its near freezing here at the mountains in Winter, and the PC runs great then; but my teeth chatter as I type with fingerless gloves on.

Long live the happy medium. Work to attain it.


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August 30, 2014 5:07:42 AM

Quote:

30C in an open-frame test setup is likely still a fair bit cooler than the cards would get if they were in a closed case inside a room air-conditioned to 20C.

It may not allow the setup to perform to its absolute best but it is a close-enough approximation of how most people would end up using it in real-life.


First off that is an assumption on your part. A well designed case with good airflow will actually cool a card better than on an open bench.

Second, that is not my point. My point is we never see a test like this. We manage to have one ran on the 295x2 though. This perpetuates a falsehood that the 295x2 runs hot and throttles. While not demonstrating that any modern high end reference card, especially a duallie, will throttle under similar conditions.
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August 30, 2014 5:35:20 AM

Roger Rogers said:
So, totally agree with you; I have said for years that when they design computers they always do it at a stock 17-Dec C or similar in some lab or other. Its completely unrealistic for the real world of at least half of users.

Most electronic components and laboratory test equipment are rated at 25C normal room temperature as a baseline and whatever other temperatures the manufacturer deems relevant.

In offices, 18C is a common temperature simply because it is much easier to put a jacket or shirt on if it is too cold for you than provide additional local cooling if 20C is still too warm for you.

Server rooms run at ~18C partly to guarantee that even hot spots with low room airflow still get decent cooling without having to do detailed airflow pattern analysis/engineering and it also affords an extra margin to fix ventilation/cooling issues when they arise.
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August 30, 2014 2:35:04 PM

InvalidError said:
Roger Rogers said:
So, totally agree with you; I have said for years that when they design computers they always do it at a stock 17-Dec C or similar in some lab or other. Its completely unrealistic for the real world of at least half of users.

Most electronic components and laboratory test equipment are rated at 25C normal room temperature as a baseline and whatever other temperatures the manufacturer deems relevant.

In offices, 18C is a common temperature simply because it is much easier to put a jacket or shirt on if it is too cold for you than provide additional local cooling if 20C is still too warm for you.

Server rooms run at ~18C partly to guarantee that even hot spots with low room airflow still get decent cooling without having to do detailed airflow pattern analysis/engineering and it also affords an extra margin to fix ventilation/cooling issues when they arise.


Most offices, airports and shopping centres are controlled to about 22 degrees C.
In the past this was with a margin of +/- 2 degrees C, but as building managers aim for higher energy ratings this margin is extended.
Cooling to 18 degrees C in summer will double the cost of running the air conditioning.
Aside from that, most systems are only specified to hold this temperature up to 30 degrees C outside. Above this, the inside temperature will usually creep up as well.
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September 1, 2014 7:26:57 PM

InvalidError said:
Roger Rogers said:
So, totally agree with you; I have said for years that when they design computers they always do it at a stock 17-Dec C or similar in some lab or other. Its completely unrealistic for the real world of at least half of users.

Most electronic components and laboratory test equipment are rated at 25C normal room temperature as a baseline and whatever other temperatures the manufacturer deems relevant.

In offices, 18C is a common temperature simply because it is much easier to put a jacket or shirt on if it is too cold for you than provide additional local cooling if 20C is still too warm for you.

Server rooms run at ~18C partly to guarantee that even hot spots with low room airflow still get decent cooling without having to do detailed airflow pattern analysis/engineering and it also affords an extra margin to fix ventilation/cooling issues when they arise.


VincentP said:
InvalidError said:
Roger Rogers said:
So, totally agree with you; I have said for years that when they design computers they always do it at a stock 17-Dec C or similar in some lab or other. Its completely unrealistic for the real world of at least half of users.

Most electronic components and laboratory test equipment are rated at 25C normal room temperature as a baseline and whatever other temperatures the manufacturer deems relevant.

In offices, 18C is a common temperature simply because it is much easier to put a jacket or shirt on if it is too cold for you than provide additional local cooling if 20C is still too warm for you.

Server rooms run at ~18C partly to guarantee that even hot spots with low room airflow still get decent cooling without having to do detailed airflow pattern analysis/engineering and it also affords an extra margin to fix ventilation/cooling issues when they arise.


Most offices, airports and shopping centres are controlled to about 22 degrees C.
In the past this was with a margin of +/- 2 degrees C, but as building managers aim for higher energy ratings this margin is extended.
Cooling to 18 degrees C in summer will double the cost of running the air conditioning.
Aside from that, most systems are only specified to hold this temperature up to 30 degrees C outside. Above this, the inside temperature will usually creep up as well.


I really hope this comment does not come over as too abrasive (as I was refering to people using PC`s and where they are designed, and under what conditions they are DESIGNED compared to what MOST users use it at half the year [and I was not referring to servers])....

So; 20-Deg C ?
Well; its not true for half of Asia (or all the way across the Middle East, all the way across to Jamaica [and/or South America (and or Africa [and/or laptops across Spain/Portugal/Italy/Cyprus etc...])]).
Even with Air-con on, in my room here, its 30-Deg C.
And this i7 Toshiba has shut down hundreds of times a year from getting too hot; and its in an air-conditioned room with a laptop fan tray blowing air under it. And I only use it a couple of hours a day at most.

Maybe you think call centers in India are kept at 20Deg C and their city homes?
And everyones homes in all the countries like china with the most customers in them?
That is one crazy electricity bill and supply required.

Anyway, I was (unspecifically) referring to web-surfing youtube vids etc and GAMING which I would say almost everyone uses at home, not at work. And most the customers do not have Air-con in most rooms in every home in the world.

Did someone think Airports are gonna be the most popular place to use a gaming PC? :wahoo: 

Its why some smartphones are bursting into flames? (google it)..
That said...
How is the NVidia Sheild Tablet doing. Runs hot/cool? Tegra 3 gets so hot onstandby, my phone switches itself off half-a-dozen times a day in summer.....

Seperately.....
I have a product design for improving the Shield Tablet in a very profitable way.
Its a pity companies refuse to take concepts from freelance designers without paying; the world could be a much more useful, more efficient place.
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September 1, 2014 7:56:55 PM

Roger Rogers said:
InvalidError said:
Roger Rogers said:
So, totally agree with you; I have said for years that when they design computers they always do it at a stock 17-Dec C or similar in some lab or other. Its completely unrealistic for the real world of at least half of users.

Most electronic components and laboratory test equipment are rated at 25C normal room temperature as a baseline and whatever other temperatures the manufacturer deems relevant.

In offices, 18C is a common temperature simply because it is much easier to put a jacket or shirt on if it is too cold for you than provide additional local cooling if 20C is still too warm for you.

Server rooms run at ~18C partly to guarantee that even hot spots with low room airflow still get decent cooling without having to do detailed airflow pattern analysis/engineering and it also affords an extra margin to fix ventilation/cooling issues when they arise.


VincentP said:
InvalidError said:
Roger Rogers said:
So, totally agree with you; I have said for years that when they design computers they always do it at a stock 17-Dec C or similar in some lab or other. Its completely unrealistic for the real world of at least half of users.

Most electronic components and laboratory test equipment are rated at 25C normal room temperature as a baseline and whatever other temperatures the manufacturer deems relevant.

In offices, 18C is a common temperature simply because it is much easier to put a jacket or shirt on if it is too cold for you than provide additional local cooling if 20C is still too warm for you.

Server rooms run at ~18C partly to guarantee that even hot spots with low room airflow still get decent cooling without having to do detailed airflow pattern analysis/engineering and it also affords an extra margin to fix ventilation/cooling issues when they arise.


Most offices, airports and shopping centres are controlled to about 22 degrees C.
In the past this was with a margin of +/- 2 degrees C, but as building managers aim for higher energy ratings this margin is extended.
Cooling to 18 degrees C in summer will double the cost of running the air conditioning.
Aside from that, most systems are only specified to hold this temperature up to 30 degrees C outside. Above this, the inside temperature will usually creep up as well.


I really hope this comment does not come over as too abrasive (as I was refering to people using PC`s and where they are designed, and under what conditions they are DESIGNED compared to what MOST users use it at half the year [and I was not referring to servers])....

So; 20-Deg C ?
Well; its not true for half of Asia (or all the way across the Middle East, all the way across to Jamaica [and/or South America (and or Africa [and/or laptops across Spain/Portugal/Italy/Cyprus etc...])]).
Even with Air-con on, in my room here, its 30-Deg C.
And this i7 Toshiba has shut down hundreds of times a year from getting too hot; and its in an air-conditioned room with a laptop fan tray blowing air under it. And I only use it a couple of hours a day at most.

Maybe you think call centers in India are kept at 20Deg C and their city homes?
And everyones homes in all the countries like china with the most customers in them?
That is one crazy electricity bill and supply required.

Anyway, I was (unspecifically) referring to web-surfing youtube vids etc and GAMING which I would say almost everyone uses at home, not at work. And most the customers do not have Air-con in most rooms in every home in the world.

Did someone think Airports are gonna be the most popular place to use a gaming PC? :wahoo: 

Its why some smartphones are bursting into flames? (google it)..
That said...
How is the NVidia Sheild Tablet doing. Runs hot/cool? Tegra 3 gets so hot onstandby, my phone switches itself off half-a-dozen times a day in summer.....

Seperately.....
I have a product design for improving the Shield Tablet in a very profitable way.
Its a pity companies refuse to take concepts from freelance designers without paying; the world could be a much more useful, more efficient place.

I was responding to the comment
"In offices, 18C is a common temperature simply because it is much easier to put a jacket or shirt on if it is too cold for you than provide additional local cooling if 20C is still too warm for you."
I work in the industry and this isn't true.

As for PC parts needing to work at 30 degrees, see my earlier comment
"30 degrees C seems like a pretty valid room temperature test in many environments.
The hardware for a home PC should be able to handle anything from 0 to 40 degrees C if you want it to work on the hottest and coldest days in many environments without air conditioning or heating."
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