Buying a video card on low budget. Peculiar dillema.

[Katarn]

I am looking for a card that would be powerful in reference to my computer.

System specs:

Intel Core 2 Duo E7300 @ 2.66 GHz
2 x 2GB DDR3 RAM
HDD – 500 GB (irrelevant imo, but just in case)
Decommissioned GPU: Nvidia Geforce 9600 GSO 768mb RAM
Temporary GPU: Nvidia Geforce GT 610 1024mb RAM

I’m saying this to ensure the proper understanding of what I’m looking for. Core 2 Duo and 4GB RAM is in no way high-end. So there is no point in having a high-end video card when the rest of the computer can’t handle the game.
What I’m looking for is a video card that would be powerful within the borders of my computer’s overall performance.

I am in no way a hardcore gamer, and gaming is not the only thing I need a solid video card for. I’ll need a good card for 3D rendering, as I make models, textures and animations in ‘Blender 3D’. So yes, good RAM is definitely on the list. CUDA is of outmost necessity.

I have a 22” monitor at 1920:1080 native resolution. Which means two things:

1) a video card that boasts with higher resolutions has absolutely no advantage in that regard.
2) I’ll need the video card to be capable of playing games at 1080p (1050 is the absolute, desperate lowest I could descend to).

And I’ll need that resolution sustained at a solid fps, at least 50. I am used to having little to no post-processing, so AA, AF and similar settings do not matter to me. All I need is HD resolution, high textures and lighting, possibly good shading.
I’m looking for a card that can top the 9600 GSO’s performance. And just for reference, here’s what the GSO could do, described in one of the best methods for comparing graphics cards. Video games.

Except for certain post-processing effects and the definitely outdated memory cache, the 9600 GSO has been able to render games 1080p and high detail while maintaining a solid 50+ fps. It ran a maxed out ‘Crysis’ at about 45, which says a lot about the power it holds within its generation; did great with 2011’s ‘Rage’ – also a very demanding game, not to mention the genertion gap; and 2013’s ‘Batman: Arkham Origins’ – 1080p, dynamic lights, high texture quality, 60 fps.
There are other (Crysis 2, Stalker series, Metro 2033, GTA IV, Mafia II, Far Cry 2, Far Cry 3) demanding games which were handled exceptionally well (GTA4 and FC3 not at 60fps, but still smooth).

I’m on a budget of about $75. I’m not sure as to what would be a better choice:

- a current low-end video card, as it has newer technology and is possibly better optimized. On the downside, likely of bad quality and performance.

- an ex medium-high end card, as it would be quite powerful (especially in reference to the rest of my system) and at a low price due to dated technology. The downside here is of course, dated technology.

An analogy of my dilemma would be the choice between a Kar98k and a Glock 19 for city warfare.

Seeing as a frequently dictating factor is the games to be played with the new GPU, here are the games on my list. The plus sign next to a title means it has beaten the GSO; Minus indicates unsatisfactory performance due to optimization.

Injustice: Gods Among Us
Deus Ex: Human Revolution –
Sniper Elite 3
Just Cause 2 +
L.A. Noire
COJ: Gunslinger +
Team Fortress 2 –
Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning
Shadow Warrior +
The Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings (enhanced edition) +
Saints Row: The Third +
Max Payne 3


Any ideas?
Thanks in advance

 

[Vexillarius]

If your budget is that tight and you need that kind of performance you may want to look into a secondhand card. $75 won't even buy you a 750 Ti new, but when looking at used you have some options.

 

[Katarn]

Unfortunately there is very little choice in secondhand cards.

The best the 75-80 dollar price range can get me is a GT 630 (which I know is awful) or a GT 730… and yes, the version featured on the site is the DDR3 128-bit one, meaning it has only 96 CUDA cores.
Here’s a list of the three mightiest Nvidia cards that reach the top borders of my budget:


$78 NVIDIA GeForce GT730 2GB DDR3-128-bit

$74.57 NVIDIA GeForce GT630 2048MB-128bit

$51 - $55 NVIDIA GT 610 2048MB SDDR3-128-bit


$78 Sapphire ATI PCX R7 240 2GB DDR3 w/BOOST

$77 Sapphire ATI PCX HD 6570 2GB DDR3

$65 Sapphire ATI PCX R5 230 2GB DDR3

Which one would you say is best for its price? I can raise my budged to about $80, but I doubt it'll make any difference regarding possibilities. Let's say I don't intend to use dynamic lights and shading; and I don't intend to play the most-demanding games on the list (The Witcher 2, Max Payne 3 and (probably) Just Cause 2 and Saints Row: The Third). All I need is a 1080p resolution with high texture quality and a smooth fps. What specs would I be looking for then?

 

[Vexillarius]

I'm pretty sure the GT 730 performs the best out of those cards.
You might hit 50 fps at very low settings in most of those games, but at 1080p...

LA Noire is a surprisingly heavy game so I think you'll have to cross off that one as well, a single one of my GTX660s had trouble with it at 1080p at medium-low.

Honestly, if you can find another 9600 GSO or a similar card you'd probably be better off since you won't be paying for DirectX 10 and 11 features you won't use. If you can find a used 750 Ti or even a regular 750 you're golden.
$75-80 is simply not enough for a new, decent modern gaming graphics card. But, if you have no other options, go with the GT 730.

 

[Katarn]

Okay, so I finally found some good secondhand video cards. If there is a card within budget that you think I can find as a secondhand item and is an improvement over these, do tell.
I like these, as they are a definite upgrade over the GSO (a feat previously thought unbeatable) at a very reasonable cost. They are all mostly superior to the brand new cards above, so yes, I am thinking of getting one.

$53 Geforce 9800 GTX 512mb ddr3 256 bit pci-e asus

$47 Gainward 8800 GTS GDDR3 640mb 320bit

Unassigned SLI\ NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GT NVIDIA PhysX DDR3 1GB


And a couple of 9800 GT 512 DDR ranging from 49 to 52 dollars.


There are no new models, so I’ll have to choose one of the above.

I had my eye on the 9800 GTX as it is the most powerful regarding stats, but the 512mb RAM has me concerned. Isn’t it too inferior? I think there is a possibility that it hinders performance significantly. How much performance will be lost on the games above, hell, what happens with any game released after 2007? And what about texture painting?

The Gainward 8800 GTS is supposedly superior to the regular 9800 GT cards, but RAM also seems too low (or so I’m told) and I’ve read somewhere that 8800 cards tend to heat up more. And isn’t a secondhand card that’s prone to overheating a bad choice? The previous owner could have used it up to just-before-breakdown.

The Geforce 9800 GT DDR3 1GB seems like a good bargain. Assuming I can banter well enough. Boy, if I’d only watched more of those auction shows on the Discovery Channel… besides a good price, I could have found ancient weaponry in the casing. Dangit!
What price would you say is fair for that one? About $60 max?


I do not rule out the possibility of some of these cards being already sold. I have called plenty of numbers only to be told that there are no cards (and haven’t been for years). Update your sites people!
I haven’t called these yet as it is a somewhat inappropriate time right now
And I am unsure as to the quality and longevity of these. They are old cards sold by people who want to get rid of them. The 9800 GTX is an exception, as it is being sold by an online store.


I have also been considering the option (as this is just a temporary fix, as stated in previous post) to get a new Geforce GT 610 – 1GB or 2GB version, depends on price, and go to old games I’ve never gotten the chance to play.
Get ‘Resident Evil 4’, ‘Hitman: Blood Money’ and ‘Oblivion’. The GT 610 should be able to run these at high settings, right? I’ll stick to TF2 and FOF and ‘Smite’ for a few months, then get a new rig altogether.


What do you think? What is the better plan? Which secondhand card of the above best suits my needs? Are there other secondhand cards that would be better (within the $80 price range)?


ps: @ Vexillarius: Looking for a 750 Ti, not much luck.


Katarn

 

[Vexillarius]

I know right, I watched one of those auction shows yesterday and last night when I opened my case to clean the dust out I found a long lost 17th century music composition!

Aaaanyway,
Now you have some options!
For 1080p you'll want more than 512MB VRAM, yes. The 9800GTX is the most powerful, but it's not worth sacrificing half the VRAM over. I'd recommend the 9800GT 1GB. It'll beat your old 9600 GSO as well as that GT 730. Don't expect it to last for years to come though.

I honestly don't know what a fair price would be, it depends on the card's age, condition, etc. You should definitely be able to get it for under $75 though.

I wouldn't go with another GT 610, even in SLI they'd be outperformed by the 9800 GT.

 

[Katarn]

I was just offered these:

GTS 250 DDR3 1GB RAM 256-bit Asus for about $64

Palit GT 250 DDR3 1GB RAM 256-bit for $53

Are these better? They are secondhand cards, but they come from a store with a three-month guarantee. So safer, at least. But what about performance, quality and stability measured against price?
Which one's the better choice now?

 

[Vexillarius]

The GTS 250 is better in every way, especially since it's the 1GB version. It's basically a rebranded 9800GTX+ with double the memory. You can uncross some games from that list now I think.

You'll want to go with the Asus between the two, it's probably more reliable.

 

[Katarn]

It's good to know that I finally found a good GPU. So I went out and bought the GTS 250. But hey, why simple when it can be hard, complicated and utterly irritating. The computer doesn't seem to want it.
The card fits in just fine externally.
But upon powering up the computer, just before the startup screen, I get the 'long beep, short beep, short beep' sound, which for Gigabyte boards means 'GPU error'.
I have a 550W PSU and a dual a 6 pin power connector. It requires a minimum of 450W and a single 6 pin, so It can't be a problem regarding power requirements.
The computer runs just fine with the borrowed GT 610, so I can't blame anything but the GPU.
I've uninstalled all Nvidia drivers I'd had before plugging in the GTS 250, and once again - beeeep, beep beep.

Tomorrow I'm taking the rig to where I bought the card and let them find the problem. However - out of curiosity, and other minor factors - I need to know the possibility of what the culprit may be. If I do, maybe I could fix it tonight.
My greatest fear is that the card is either not functioning properly or is having compatibility issues with the moderboard. That would suck big time.
I'd need to start searching all over again, and likely find absolutely nothing of value. Sigh...

Any ideas?

 

[Vexillarius]

Now that's just plain evil on the card's part.

It's not a motherboard compatibility issue, a mobo that can run a 9600 GSO and a GT 610 without issue can run a GTS 250.
It could be a PSU issue, technically. What PSU do you have (brand and model)? It's unlikely, but possible.

The most likely culprit in my eyes would be the card I'm afraid... Not the model, the specific card. Good thing it has a warranty at least.
They'll be able to test it with your rig in the shop and they'll probably also test it with a different system.

If it turns out that the card is faulty don't be afraid to go with the Palit (plus $11 I assume) if they still have it. Heck, have them test it with your rig if you're bringing it anyway. Asus is generally very reliable but the most important thing is to have a working card in the first place.

Whatever it is, I don't think it's something you'll be able to fix before going back to the shop...

 

[Katarn]

Frell!
Well, I guess we can at least cross off the compatibility issue threat.
I just hope the card isn't broken. Had such high hopes.
So, if I do end up getting the Palit, can I still play some/most of the games above at 1080p? (Excluding The Witcher, LA Noire and Max Payne 3)

Exactly how much power will I lose in reference to the GTS?
Are Saints Row and Just Cause playable on the Palit? These and Shadow Warrior seem to be the ones I'm most interested in right now.


EDIT: Almost fogrot. The PSU is a CCivo ATX-350 C

 

[Vexillarius]

Well there's no such thing as a GT 250 so I assume it's another GTS 250. So it should perform the same, barring any factory overclocking. It's just that Asus is a real A-brand, while Palit is not. That's why I recommended the Asus, sorry about that.

I've never heard of CCivo, which isn't a good sign. Cheap low quality PSUs can be outright dangerous, and not just to your computer either. Did it come with the case? In fact, is the entire computer prebuilt?

If it's a 'custom' system you might want to look into a new PSU if you have any money left after the GPU. If it's prebuilt I'd still replace it but it's a bit more difficult to do so sometimes because some prebuilt PCs don't adhere to standard formfactors.
Something like this would be a good, safe upgrade:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

Power Supply: Corsair Builder 500W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($29.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $29.99
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-09-05 15:52 EDT-0400

That way you won't have to worry the PSU will fry your components or explode or burn your house down or something. I know it's more money to spend and you're on a really tight budget but bad PSUs make me really really nervous. I don't know how bad this one is, but if you can find hardly any info on it, that's generally a pretty bad sign.

 

[Katarn]

Sorry for the delay. I am writing this through the PC I'd borrowed the 610 from.

I'd handed my computer over prior to seeing this. I could have uninstalled the 250, as I still had the 610 at the time. So I can't post much detail regarding the Motherboard/PSU.

The GTS 250 is functional; they said they'd tested it prior to selling, so it's definitely something regarding compatibility/PSU. I can get a new PSU, so I just hope it's not the motherboard I should worry about.

The PSU has a 12 V output rating of 27 A. Assuming you're positive about the motherboard being fully compatible, we can rest assured it's the PSU, then? Let's just hope they conclude so as well.

My rig was a prebuilt PC. The only thing I'd changed upon purchase back in 200(7?) was the GPU and a stick of RAM. Didn't even notice the PSU. Saw it was 550 W and thought it good enough. It still is fully functional, so in a way it was.

Assuming it is the PSU and I am to get a new one: What price/brand should I settle for if I have no access to the Corsair mentioned above. Unfortunately I don't have 60 days to wait for delivery, and most sites don't deliver anywhere near my area.
I don't intend on spending more than $85 total. However, I might end up swapping the CCivo and get a slight discount, so the price of the new PSU I'm looking for is probably in the $30 range.

CCivo is a popular - well, frequently sold - brand here, so I might end up getting another CCivo. If that were the case what specs should I be looking for?

Again, sorry for the delay on my part; And thanks for helping.

Should be getting the PC back this Tuesday; will stay in contact until then.

Katarn

 

[jeffredo]

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/pny-xlr8-geforce-gtx-650-2gb-gddr5-pci-express-3-0-graphics-card/6820159.p

Here you go (if you have access to a Best Buy or are in the US). Fairly up to date, all your CPU could handle and would run on your current power supply fine.

 

[Vexillarius]

From what I've found CCivo builds office-level PSUs. Those are often not particulary dangerous but they tend to underperform and die quickly.
27A x 12V = 324 watts which should be plenty for the GTS250, as it needs 150 watts max. However, it's very possible that the PSU will not actually give you 27A, it may crap out at, say, 10A regardless of what the label says. That's plenty for a 9600GSO or a GT 610 so everything seems fine but it won't power a GTS250.
Manufacturers of cheap PSUs often flat out lie about what their unit can handle.

You could buy another CCivo but you may very well end up with a 300w unit with a 500w label. That Corsair is actually a 500w unit. I'd look in this list: www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-1804779/power-supply-unit-tier-list.html and go with a Tier 1, 2, or of your budget is too tight Tier 3 PSU. Hopefully you can find one that's available where you live.

Could you post your exact model motherboard? I seriously doubt it's incompatibility but I can look into it.

 

[Katarn]

Somehow it was. I got the rig today, works like a charm. Apparently the PC didn't feel compatible with the Asus, but it was okay with the Palit. So I got the Palit, which is just as powerful and saved me around $10. Sweet
All that is left now is for me to express sincere gratitude for your helpful guidance and support. Thankee sai, may wealth and fortune pave the ways thee treads.

Just in case, here's a backup: THANKYA!

Katarn

 

[Vexillarius]

Well that's weird. Especially if the same card from another brand doesn't have a problem. Nothing is impossible I guess! Glad to hear things are working now

Haha, no problem, may high FPSs and great gaming experiences pave your way!