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$2500 Non-Gaming First Build

Tags:
  • Illustrator
  • Design
  • Build
  • Business Computing
  • Systems
Last response: in Systems
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October 15, 2014 10:11:39 PM

USE : Intensive Adobe Illustrator Graphic Design / Simultaneous Multiple Tab Browsing

PRIORITIES : Stability ( will be for business & personal use ) followed by speed

CONCERN : When the GTX 970 cards will be in stock???? Neither Amazon or NewEgg seem to have any brand in stock. Suggestions ? , do I wait or is there anything comparable? I would be willing to go to GTX 980 if the wait for the 970 is too long.

[PCPartPicker part list](http://pcpartpicker.com/p/BvRMyc) / [Price breakdown by merchant](http://pcpartpicker.com/p/BvRMyc/by_merchant/)

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-5930K 3.5GHz 6-Core Processor ($559.99 @ NCIX US)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($28.99 @ Micro Center)
Motherboard: Asus X99-DELUXE ATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard ($381.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-2133 Memory
Storage: Samsung 840 Pro Series 512GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($287.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Black 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($149.98 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Black 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($149.98 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 970 4GB STRIX Video Card ($355.91 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case ($110.99 @ Mwave)
Power Supply: Corsair Professional 750W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($124.99 @ Amazon)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($16.99 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8 Professional (OEM) (64-bit) ($142.97 @ OutletPC)
Total: $2310.76
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-10-16 01:04 EDT-0400


Not necessarily looking to save money, primarily wanting to make sure I get the most stable / performance for the money.

Also, the one thing I haven't spent too much time researching is the power supply. So I am extremely open to any other suggestions.

More about : 2500 gaming build

October 15, 2014 11:40:42 PM

Everything looks extremely delicious except maybe, since I've been getting ripped for not recommending them lately and that board supports it, you might consider an M.2 SSD rather than a SATA SSD. They're much faster and are getting to be fairly reasonable in price.
October 16, 2014 12:09:09 AM

The Quadro card give more stability if that is what is most important to you.
Related resources
October 16, 2014 12:33:57 AM

Get the 5820k over the 5930k. They're identical except the 5930k supports more PCI-E lanes which is not needed in you're case. Also the windowed version of that case is $10 cheaper, I would get that. The PSU you chose is good, but try this one
http://pcpartpicker.com/part/evga-power-supply-220g2075...

Its cheaper and better along with being fully modular.
October 16, 2014 1:53:08 AM

If stability is more important than performance then I would strongly encourage you to step far far away from any consumer or enthusiast platform. FYI: X99 is a consumer/enthusiast platform. It is not a workstation/enterprise platform. The differentiation is easy to spot. Lack of ECC memory support. i7's on the 1150 and the 2011 platform do not support ECC memory.

For stability, I advise either the C226 chipset with the Xeon E3 V3 series or a C612 chipset with the Xeon E5 V3 series and a workstation GPU. Performance in illustrator won't scale beyond about a $100 gaming GPU, anything you spend over $100 on a GPU for your work in this application should not be for more shaders, or more memory bandwidth, or more gaming performance, it should be for support and reliability, which you will get from a workstation class GPU.

Here's how to "fix" your glorified gaming/enthusiast build, and actually build a workstation:

CPU: Intel Xeon E5-1650 V3 3.5GHz 6-Core Processor ($585.98 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-U9DXi4 37.8 CFM CPU Cooler ($59.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: GIGABYTE MW50-SV0 ($314.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: 4X Samsung DDR4-2133 8GB/1Gx72 ECC/REG ($~$480 @ Superbiiz)
Storage: Toshiba Q Series Pro 512GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($308.80 @ Mwave)
Storage: Western Digital WD SE 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($132.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Western Digital WD SE 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($132.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: NVIDIA Quadro K2200 by PNY 4GB ($378.99 @ NCIXUS)
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 (Titanium Grey) ATX Mid Tower Case ($109.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 660W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($141.97 @ OutletPC)
Total: ~$2,650

To be entirely honest, If I were advising a client whose primary focus was "way too many tabs" and "adobe illustrator" I wouldn't bother going past an E3 on a C226 chipset. The performance scaling from the extra 2 cores and quad channel DDR4 memory just isn't going to do anything useful here, but if it makes you feel better go ahead and go for it, but I must warn, once you get to an i3-4350 + GTX750 (or equivalent worksation GPU) you're at about the end of the road for significant performance scaling in most adobe productivity programs, with the exception of Premier and After Effects under some conditions. An E3-1231V3 is double the i3 (twice as many cores of basically the same performance). Point being, even the E3 affords ample headroom here for multi-tasking. In enterprise environments, those E5 class chips (from which the i7 enthusiast chips are derived) are often used for multi-client workloads. Such a machine could easily support multiple virtual machines, each with people running way too many tabs and big productivity applications without any problems.

I've a huge fan of overkill, but haswell-E/EP for a single client workload consisting of web browsing and 2D content creation? Hmmmm. That's a tough sell for me. Check out the ASRock C226 WS+ and E3-1231V3 with some Samsung ECC UDIMM's. That will shave about $500 off the build above.
October 16, 2014 9:49:29 AM

gamer1357 said:
Get the 5820k over the 5930k. They're identical except the 5930k supports more PCI-E lanes which is not needed in you're case. Also the windowed version of that case is $10 cheaper, I would get that. The PSU you chose is good, but try this one
http://pcpartpicker.com/part/evga-power-supply-220g2075...

Its cheaper and better along with being fully modular.


A good point, but also wrong depending on your point of view. OP might not need the additional lanes now, but future hardware or just additional hardware that the OP may add, might want to take advantage of those additional lanes. Especially if he adds a second or third GPU or starts adding hardware that can use those lanes.
October 16, 2014 10:03:53 AM

mdocod said:
FYI: X99 is a consumer/enthusiast platform. It is not a workstation/enterprise platform.


Nowhere in the OP does he say anything about wanting a workstation or wanting to use it for enterprise related endeavors. He just says he wants it stable and fast. The build he has selected will be just as stable and fast as what you've outlined. In fact, there isn't really even any difference between the i7 and the current Xeon chips, other than the Xeons don't have onboard graphics, so I don't know why people still think those are more reliable.

Workstation reliability is mainly due to ECC, not CPU and THAT kind of reliability is, as you yourself mentioned, mostly needed or wanted when the station is being used as a virtual machine on more than one client. I see no realistic reason the build the OP has outlined is any less reliable than yours. I've got several clients who are also friends, two of whom are graphic artists, one of whom is a professional photographer and two others who are attorneys that all use i7 configurations and have never had any stability or platform related issues whatsoever.

Furthermore, I can't think of a single reason he'd need ECC for Illustrator or for tabbed browsing, even if he had a hundred tabs open with ten other programs running. Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking your build. There's nothing wrong with it and for a workstation, all your points would be valid. I just don't agree that it applies to the OP.

I will say your choice of GPU might be a good idea though unless the OP has any thought of possibly gaming at a later date or, in which case I'd stick with the 970. In fact, since the 970 probably does all he needs, and much more, and is cheaper than the quadro, I don't know that I'd go that route either.
October 16, 2014 10:43:22 AM

Thanks for the repsonses.

I was concerned with the stability of the X99 setup. I actually have a Z97 build but the price difference was fairly negligible. I hadn't really considered a workstation a XEON / workstation setup.

I may have overstated my priority for stability or worded it incorrectly in my original post. While it is definitely a high priority, it is mainly in reference to not wanting random reboots and program closing, mainly in the middle of designing. Basically it is a 50 / 50 split for personal / business use. So I just do not have the time to deal with issues or bugs like I would if I were building one for personal gaming use.

I suppose I was just a bit concerned with the X99 vs Z97 seeing as X99 and DDR4 is new and does not have the number of reviews or opinions out there yet.

Thanks again to those that have taken the time to respond.
October 16, 2014 11:02:25 AM

Here are my changes. Left the video card part alone.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-5820K 3.3GHz 6-Core Processor ($383.95 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: Corsair H100i 77.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($94.98 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: ASRock X99 Extreme4 ATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard ($239.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory ($449.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Crucial MX100 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($109.99 @ NCIX US)
Storage: Crucial MX100 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($109.99 @ NCIX US)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($99.99 @ NCIX US)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($99.99 @ NCIX US)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($99.99 @ NCIX US)
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 970 4GB STRIX Video Card
Case: Corsair 450D ATX Mid Tower Case ($119.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: EVGA 850W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($94.99 @ NCIX US)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($16.99 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8 Professional (OEM) (64-bit) ($142.97 @ OutletPC)
Total: $2063.80
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-10-16 14:01 EDT-0400

October 16, 2014 11:19:50 AM

Well, I thought your build was fine as is with the exception of changing to M.2 as reading and saving vector images can be extremely CPU instensive as well as be frustrating when waiting for read and write times to the drive. I've worked with very large vector images and video files and the last thing I want to do is wait. Also, if you have your editors set to auto save every so often and it attempts to do so while you're in the middle of something it can really mess things up waiting while the autosave is working. While it's probably not much of an issue these days with the speed of SATA SSD, any reduction in wait time is an increase in productivity as far as I'm concerned.
October 16, 2014 11:27:07 AM

Dual MX 100's in raid 0 should be plenty fast.
October 16, 2014 11:28:58 AM

darkbreeze said:
Well, I thought your build was fine as is with the exception of changing to M.2 as reading and saving vector images can be extremely CPU instensive as well as be frustrating when waiting for read and write times to the drive. I've worked with very large vector images and video files and the last thing I want to do is wait. Also, if you have your editors set to auto save every so often and it attempts to do so while you're in the middle of something it can really mess things up waiting while the autosave is working. While it's probably not much of an issue these days with the speed of SATA SSD, any reduction in wait time is an increase in productivity as far as I'm concerned.


That is exactly what I was very poorly trying to communicate. More than anything the read and write times are what drive me crazy. That and having 8 to 12 large vector files open and trying to keep them in memory so I don't have to wait an eternity for them to load when click the tab again.

Any specific recommendations on an M.2 SSD ?

I really do appreciate your time on this.

October 16, 2014 3:05:33 PM

darkbreeze said:
Nowhere in the OP does he say anything about wanting a workstation or wanting to use it for enterprise related endeavors.


Actually, nigalor described a desire for a high performance single client computer with a priority on stability, that is the DEFINITION of a workstation class computer. Any computer used for work applications where file corruption costs time and money, should be made with ECC memory.

Quote:
He just says he wants it stable and fast. The build he has selected will be just as stable and fast as what you've outlined.

Wrong, non-ECC memory has an error and failure rate over 10X higher than non-ECC memory.

Quote:
In fact, there isn't really even any difference between the i7 and the current Xeon chips, other than the Xeons don't have onboard graphics, so I don't know why people still think those are more reliable.

Wrong again,
Xeon CPUs have ECC memory support enabled, i7's do not. There are some i7's and Xeons with iGPUs, and some without, depends on the specific model. The iGPU is NOT the disparity at all. The 1150 socket platform supports iGPUs, the 2011 socket platforms do not, there are Xeons and i7s for both.

Quote:
Workstation reliability is mainly due to ECC, not CPU and THAT kind of reliability is, as you yourself mentioned, mostly needed or wanted when the station is being used as a virtual machine on more than one client.

The benefits in long term stability are just as good whether used for a single client or many clients.

Quote:
I see no realistic reason the build the OP has outlined is any less reliable than yours.

You already admitted the reason for the improved reliability, the ECC memory. You're contradicting yourself now.

Quote:
I've got several clients who are also friends, two of whom are graphic artists, one of whom is a professional photographer and two others who are attorneys that all use i7 configurations and have never had any stability or platform related issues whatsoever.

That's great, you built a few computers on consumer platforms that work fine. A sample of a few clients saying that their computers seem to work fine does not change anything here. A professional workstation has ECC memory in it. If I were a lawyer, or an artist, or a content creator, or an engineer using a computer professionally, I would want it to be built the way enterprise systems are built, not the way some kids gaming computer is built.

Quote:
Furthermore, I can't think of a single reason he'd need ECC for Illustrator or for tabbed browsing, even if he had a hundred tabs open with ten other programs running. Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking your build. There's nothing wrong with it and for a workstation, all your points would be valid. I just don't agree that it applies to the OP.

The reduced error rate and higher reliability of ECC memory applies regardless. This is a work computer. Storage and Memory errors are the primary source of file corruption related to hardware in stock clocked systems. Reducing the chances of file corruption caused by memory errors by 10X or better is well worth it IMO.

Quote:
I will say your choice of GPU might be a good idea though unless the OP has any thought of possibly gaming at a later date or, in which case I'd stick with the 970. In fact, since the 970 probably does all he needs, and much more, and is cheaper than the quadro, I don't know that I'd go that route either.


The GTX970 is ~3X faster than the K2200, no doubt it's a much stronger GPU. Unfortunately, it doesn't matter if you're using a GTX640 or a GTX980, the performance in illustrator is about the same. The way I figure it, you're using the GPU for professional work that has deadlines, you should be using a GPU that is certified and supported for professional work use, so that if there is ever a problem, you can take it up with a support system that is designed to address issues in a professional application, not with a support system that deals with making sure games run correctly. The high cost of the workstation card, is mostly tied up in the higher availability of support, and is ideal for people who don't have the TIME to try to find workarounds or solution to problems themselves. Any issues with a Quadro in a pro app can be handed over to nvidia for a quick solution.
October 16, 2014 3:41:21 PM

No, he didn't. No place in his post did he mention one single thing about a single client high performance computer, that's YOUR interpretation of what he said. Typical IT guy.

Everybody else heard " I want a fast new computer that can run high end Adobe applications and won't crash every ten minutes because I used cheap POS components that lack good driver support. Oh, and if I don't have to work an extra month of overtime to get, that would be even better."

Get back in the server room, and stay there. Just kidding. Your opinions are just as welcome as anybody elses, so long as you recognize they are your opinions and not necessarily shared by everybody else.

That being said, of course ECC memory is more reliable, but it probably isn't anywhere near as necessary for a graphic artist as it is for say, somebody serving databases or applications.
October 16, 2014 11:22:58 PM

This system will run Adobe Master Collection CS6 with 5-6 of the programs running at the same time, with MS office on one of 3 screens if you choose to have that many screens. You can even run Auto CAD and Adobe at the same time. The only thing that sucks is it's about $800 more then you want to spend.

This system is the scaled down version of mine, I have a Xeon MOBO, dominator RAM, Quadro, and all my HD Drives are 10K though.

I do allot of heavy work in Adobe, AutoDesk, MS Office, Quickbooks, Avid and sometimes Maya…

So yes this system works and will last you a long time. You can get better but it will cost a bit more.


PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/HDB9RB
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/HDB9RB/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel Core i7-5930K 3.5GHz 6-Core Processor ($559.99 @ NCIX US)

CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-U12S 55.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($62.99 @ Mwave) << Better cooling cost more but it's a bit better.

Motherboard: Asus X99-DELUXE ATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard ($381.98 @ SuperBiiz)

Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-2666 Memory ($679.99 @ Newegg) << Asus and corsair worked together to make DD4 work magically together, the 2 companies are designed to work together.

Storage: Samsung 850 Pro Series 128GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($118.98 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Samsung 850 Pro Series 128GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($118.98 @ OutletPC) << Run these in RAID 0 just the OS, drivers and monitor software.

Storage: Samsung 850 Pro Series 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($187.98 @ OutletPC) << Software drive no saved data

Storage: Western Digital VelociRaptor 500GB 3.5" 10000RPM Internal Hard Drive ($128.00 @ Amazon) << all working data, this is items you are working on before completion, after completion move to storage drive.

Storage: Western Digital WD Black 4TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($253.98 @ SuperBiiz) << Storage drive after projects complete.

Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 970 4GB STRIX Video Card ($355.91 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case ($110.99 @ Mwave)
Power Supply: Corsair Professional 750W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($124.99 @ Amazon)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($16.99 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8 Professional (OEM) (64-bit) ($142.97 @ OutletPC)

Total: $3244.72
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-10-17 01:53 EDT-0400



Or you can go for something like this, but I would not recommend it unless you plan on making the machine work like mad, because it is WAY over kill...

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/33q9RB
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/33q9RB/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel Xeon E5-2697 V2 2.7GHz 12-Core Processor ($2489.98 @ SuperBiiz) <<< Picked this one to show the pricing of 2 x 2640's as the part picker will not select 2

CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-U12S 55.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($62.99 @ Mwave)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-U12S 55.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($62.99 @ Mwave) <<< To cool both CPU's

Motherboard: Asus Z9PE-D8 WS SSI EEB Dual-CPU LGA2011 Motherboard ($499.99 @ Newegg)

Memory: Corsair Dominator Platinum 64GB (8 x 8GB) DDR3-2400 Memory ($913.98 @ Newegg) <<< Even though you are not OCing, this is the most stable heavy load RAM you can get that is non-ecc..

Storage: Samsung 850 Pro Series 128GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($109.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung 850 Pro Series 128GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($109.99 @ Amazon)<<< OS, drivers and monitoring software in Raid 0

Storage: Samsung 850 Pro Series 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($194.98 @ OutletPC) <<< All programs no saves

Storage: Western Digital VelociRaptor 1TB 3.5" 10000RPM Internal Hard Drive ($213.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Storage: Western Digital VelociRaptor 1TB 3.5" 10000RPM Internal Hard Drive ($213.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Storage: Western Digital VelociRaptor 1TB 3.5" 10000RPM Internal Hard Drive ($213.98 @ SuperBiiz) <<< 3 separate drives for different data points. This is very fast as it keeps the heavy use data files in their own areas… i.e photo, media, audio…

Video Card: PNY Quadro 6000 6GB Video Card ($1109.25 @ Amazon)

Case: Silverstone TJ10S ATX Full Tower Case ($312.14 @ TigerDirect) <<< Room to expand with more storage

Power Supply: Corsair 1200W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($269.99 @ Micro Center)

Optical Drive: LG WH14NS40 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer ($66.44 @ OutletPC)

Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 Professional (32/64-bit) ($170.99 @ Adorama)

Total: $7018.46

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-10-17 02:16 EDT-0400

October 17, 2014 8:30:38 PM

@Amencerment

where does $7,019 come close to $2,500
October 17, 2014 8:39:10 PM

bsod1 said:
@Amencerment

where does $7,019 come close to $2,500


I'm sure glad somebody besides me came along to say that.
October 17, 2014 9:04:02 PM

I never said it was close, if you read the post I suggested something around $3,300, and I even apologized that that was a few hundred above his budget, and I was showing what a workstation type of build was like compared to a very strong consumer editing station using some of the exact parts he selected.

I even stated the 2nd build was WAY Overkill.

Next time, I guess you could read the entire thing...
October 17, 2014 9:59:48 PM

You did, and we did. And you're right, except that it seems like an awful lot of work to create a post that is almost entirely unrelated to the question at hand if you consider the budget request. I guess some people have more free time than others though. No big. Have a shot or a beer, and relax marine.
October 17, 2014 10:03:12 PM

Haha.. Good one.

I just happen to write these while I work. Just wanted to show the difference.

Peace.
!