Help me with my first PC build!

[essbeemorton]

Hi,

I'm gonna be switching from Macs to PCs here in the next few weeks and would like some advice from you guys. I bought a late 2012 21.5" iMac when it was new with high-end specs for its model. 16GB DDR3 RAM, 3.1Ghz core i7, and their premier 1TB fusion drive (adaptive SSD + HDD). Though, in that time I've learned what I want to do with my computer, Macs can't really do or do well. I like gaming on Steam, and Macs have crappy mobile GPU's, mine being a GT650M. Plus, it's soldered to the motherboard so upgrading is not an option. Aside from that, there are a great many applications and games I can't install, so I think it's time for a change. I've been told by some Apple reps that according to my specs, I should expect $1,500+ from selling it. So that's my budget I hope. I'm trying to keep it under that however, somewhere around the $1,250 mark.

I will be gaming on Steam, hopefully doing 3D modeling in Blender, Photoshop, and eventually recording and video editing using ShadowPlay and Sony Vegas or some other equivalent. I'd like to buy a monitor, but I don't know if I have room in my budget for that since I have 2 decent ones sitting in my office that I could use.

All my PC building knowledge comes from my lengthy research stint I've been on for the past couple of days, and that's it. I didn't even know what a motherboard really was until 3 days ago. With that said, here's my initial parts list after my research and consulting some friends and other communities.

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PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4690K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($212.99 @ NCIX US)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($26.75 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z97-D3H ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($114.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Mushkin Blackline 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($140.98 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($123.98 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($51.85 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 760 2GB DirectCU II Video Card ($178.99 @ NCIX US)
Case: Fractal Design Define R5 ATX Mid Tower Case ($99.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: Corsair CSM 450W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($26.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($18.75 @ OutletPC)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.98 @ OutletPC)
Keyboard: Thermaltake POSEIDON Z Wired Gaming Keyboard ($74.98 @ Directron)
Mouse: Mionix AVIOR 7000 Wired Optical Mouse ($49.99 @ NCIX US)
Total: $1211.21
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-12-27 19:33 EST-0500

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I'll probably want to do some overclocking, though the videos and articles I've consulted have left me feeling a little daunted so I won't be trying to push it to the limit.

Now for some questions:

1. I'd like to do a nice color-match build if possible. I don't particularly like greens or reds; purples, blues, and oranges are more up my alley. Is this something a first-time builder can even consider? Are there comparable components that will still allow me a nice color match?

2. In regards to the case, I'm a little confused. I want something that will last me awhile should I decide to upgrade my GPU or add water cooling and extra fans. I like sleek designs that don't have crazy angles or colorways. An example of something I really like would be the Phanteks Primo, but that's way out of my price range.

3. Will my chosen motherboard be OK with the rest of the components? Motherboards still confuse me, do I need the Z97 chipset and what connections should I be sure it has?

 

[DonkeyOatie]

I'll leave the colors to others who can see them

Some suggestions.
Consider eliminating overclocking, but getting a Xeon E3 1231 CPU for about $245. It has 4 cores and Hyperthreading, which will help more than overclocking with your non-gaming applications.

GeIL EVO Veloce 16Gb memory costs about $110 and will work as well.

GPU's are in a state of considerable price flux. You can get better performing Radeon GPUs for that price.

The PSU is cheaper built than I would be happy with. I would spend $50 for this PSU http://pcpartpicker.com/part/seasonic-power-supply-m12ii620bronze
or choose a GTX 750ti 2GB overclocked GPU and this http://pcpartpicker.com/part/antec-power-supply-ea380dgreen PSU for $30.

What games? If you want AAA at serious levels, I'd bite the bullet and go for a GTX 970, at about $330 and the same power use as the 760.

If you want to overclock an i5 or i7, you need a Z97 motherboard with good power phases.

Cases are mostly a box to hold bits for me, so practicality trumps aesthetics most of the time.

 

[mdocod]

The list is actually quite amazing considering your short stint of research. I have to give an A+ for effort as there is really nothing on that list that is horrendous, (most first time system builders come up with at least a few real doozies).

So lets go over some of the areas I think need some work:

Generally speaking the main features that separate a Z97 build, from an H97/B85/H81 build, are overclocking and SLI support. The Z97 board you have selected is not a particularly great choice for overclocking, and does not support SLI. The way I see it, if you're going to go Z97, I would personally go ahead and pair it with a PSU large enough to support a path to multiple GPUs, and select a Z97 board with great VRMs and SLI support, and of course, a K model CPU. Otherwise, go H97 and go E3 with a more modestly sized PSU for best value...

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If you want to go Z97, I feel it would make more sense if it looked more like this:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4690K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($212.99 @ NCIX US)
CPU Cooler: Silverstone AR01 81.4 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($34.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z97X-SOC ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($152.54 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-2133 Memory ($165.98 @ Newegg)
Storage: OCZ ARC 100 240GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($94.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($52.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon R9 290 4GB WINDFORCE Video Card ($279.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case ($79.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Rosewill 1000W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($119.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $1194.45
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-12-27 22:31 EST-0500

Obviously this is going to put you closer to that $1400-1500 mark with OS, keyboard, mouse, etc...

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If you'd prefer to build something less extravagant:
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Xeon E3-1231 V3 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($242.99 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: Arctic Cooling ACFZ11-LP Fluid Dynamic Bearing CPU Cooler ($15.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-H97M-D3H Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($83.95 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($139.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: OCZ ARC 100 240GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($94.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($52.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 970 4GB WINDFORCE 3X Video Card ($339.98 @ NCIX US)
Case: Cooler Master N200 MicroATX Mid Tower Case ($40.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 450W 80+ Gold Certified ATX Power Supply ($59.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $1071.86
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-12-27 22:45 EST-0500

This will fit the budget a but better with OS/keyboard/mouse etc.

 

[essbeemorton]

Thank you both for your responses.

So I should only go Z97 if I want to overclock and twin the GPU's? I don't think I plan on twinning the GPU's, so SLI support doesn't really concern me if I understand what that does correctly. The Xeon sounds nice and would open up some money since I could go with an H97 microATX instead of a more expensive full size Z97. Then I could take advantage of hyperthreading at a cheaper price point as well, albeit no overclocking. Would I be sacrificing a lot of functionality with an H97 board like the one you chose vs. a Z97?

Is that OCZ SSD pretty good? I heard great things about the Samsung Evo 840, but if I can save $30 there for almost the same capacity I'd like to.

 

[mdocod]

The Samsung SSD's are a bit faster in benchmarks, but that doesn't scale well to real world differences in loading time for single client workloads so I don't generally suggest them unless the build is focused on a "best or nothing" approach. The OCZ drive is made by toshiba and is fine. Another nice alternative is the MX100 from crucial. Samsung and Intel SSD's fetch a bit of a premium for their name.

The functionality you will loose going with an H97 board is overclocking and SLI support. Everything else is pretty much the same. Perhaps the only other difference worth mentioning is that the nice Z97 board I demonstrated in the first build has a nicer onboard audio subsystem.

 

[CTurbo]

No need for overclocking, no need for SLI support. This would be perfect

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/PLGwHx
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/PLGwHx/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel Xeon E3-1231 V3 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($242.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: ASRock H97M PRO4 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($69.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($129.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Crucial M500 240GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($98.97 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($51.85 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 970 4GB WINDFORCE 3X Video Card ($329.98 @ NCIX US)
Case: Cooler Master N200 MicroATX Mid Tower Case ($39.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 620W 80+ Bronze Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($49.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Samsung SH-224DB/BEBE DVD/CD Writer ($13.99 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 - 64-bit (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.98 @ OutletPC)
Total: $1117.72
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-12-28 01:13 EST-0500

 

[essbeemorton]

Are the GTX 970 manufacturers pretty similar across the board? I've heard good things about Asus' version and that some others have a coil whine. Would Gigabyte be good enough?

Also, do I really need any aftermarket cooling since I'll be going with a CPU that can't be overclocked? Would extra case fans be necessary for the rest of the components?

 

[DonkeyOatie]

Stock cooler will be fine if you do not overclock. Extra case fans depend on the case you start with (some have none, some have three or more), the specific components you put in the case, the case's air flow; some are good, and some need to be better, and finally, your cable management. Stray cables in the wrong places can mess with airflow. Once you have decided on a case and the 'final' parts, we can answer this question better.

The GTX 970s are all similar, but each with different overclocking, power, and cooling solutions. As the products mature, the initial issues are likely to go away as the manufacturing process is improved. I'm sure you have looked at the review and where they do comparisons its usually about choosing the best out of a lot of very good.

 

[essbeemorton]

I'm still a little confused about the processors. Would hyperthreading benefit me more than overclocking? Doesn't overclocking make the computer just run better generally and hyperthreading is more specific to like video editing and other repetitive tasks?

I could get an i5 and a better motherboard for about the same price as a Xeon and a cheaper motherboard and be able to overclock. I could even try extending to an i7 and overclock that.

I'm just trying to figure out what the best option is. Are there big performance differences between overclocked i5's or i7's vs. a Xeon?

 

[essbeemorton]

OK, I've adapted my build to reflect your guys' suggestions. Any thoughts?

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PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Xeon E3-1231 V3 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($242.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-H97M-D3H Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($83.95 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($139.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Crucial MX100 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($104.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($51.85 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 970 4GB WINDFORCE 3X Video Card ($329.98 @ NCIX US)
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case ($69.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: Corsair RM 450W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($69.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($18.75 @ OutletPC)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.98 @ OutletPC)
Keyboard: Thermaltake POSEIDON Z Wired Gaming Keyboard ($74.98 @ Directron)
Mouse: SteelSeries Rival Wired Optical Mouse ($44.99 @ Best Buy)
Total: $1322.43
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-12-28 12:41 EST-0500

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Again, I need some clarification on performance differences between the CPU's, but this looks pretty good so far. Oh, and I chose the Corsair power supply mostly because it has orange accents and this is shaping up to be an orange build. People like the RM series though right? I also cut the CPU cooler since Xeon's can't be overclocked.

 

[CTurbo]

I will always choose hyperthreading over overclocking. Always. Hyperthreading is was more useful in real world usage. Gaming is the only thing that does not maximize hyperthreading. The Xeon handles twice as many threads as an i5 making it much faster overall. You can compare them directly because they are from the same family/generation.

The H97 is not a "cheap" motherboard

450w is not enough for a powerful build like this.

This is a great deal - Power Supply: SeaSonic 620W 80+ Bronze Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($49.99 @ Newegg) from my build above

 

[essbeemorton]

PCParts estimates the power consumption at 328W. But yeah I just looked it up, Gigabyte says that particular GTX 970 needs 550W. Wow. I'll add yours, thanks.

 

[mdocod]

essbeemorton,

The latest update to the build looks pretty nice... Here's my thoughts on it:

I would only use Intels boxed CPU cooler for i3's/Pentiums etc and on builds where the budget is REALLY tight. For i5's/E3's/I7's, there's really no excuse not to install a ~$20 option with heatpipes. On the stock cooler the CPU will run close to maximum thermal limits, and can even have it's performance effected by this. Turbo speeds depend on having thermal headroom, something the stock cooler offers very little of. At high loads, the stock cooler will be noticeably noisier than pretty much anything with heatpipes. Even that small HSF I suggested (the freezer 11 LP) will maintain CPU temps 10-20C lower than the stock intel cooler while being quieter.

If you look inside professional workstations from Dell, HP, and Apple, you will not find an Intel boxed cooler in any of them. They use proprietary cooling solutions with heatpipes.

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Cturbo is wrong about your PSU requirements, and so is Gigabyte.

They are placating to a PSU class that you are not purchasing. There are LOTs of cheaply made 550W PSUs that are only actually good for ~400W or less from the 12V rails, this is why gigabyte recomends that size PSU for that GPU, to cover their asses in conditions where the worst common denominator must be accounted for.

The peak power dissipation of the non-reference GTX970 is about 240W.
The peak power dissipation of the E3-1231V3 is ~80W + VRM losses (~95W total).
The rest of the system components like the chipset, ram, sound, ethernet, drives, fans, etc, are ~1-6W each, typically adding up to a peak power dissipation of less than 50W combined on an 1150 socket build.

Your PEAK (furmark + P95 torture test) power dissipation on the system as configured will be UNDER 400W.

I would use a properly made 450W high efficiency PSU for this build, nothing more, nothing less. I usually go seasonic g or rosewill capstone.

 

[CTurbo]

Assuming you have proper case airflow, the stock cooler is more than sufficient for that Xeon. Those Xeons run cooler than typical i5s and i7s and I know several people who are happy with the stock coolers performance in temp and noise.

I always recommend a little headroom on psus. There is simply NO reason to cut it so close especially since the 620w Seasonic unit is better in every way AND $20 cheaper.

 

[mdocod]

450W is ALREADY providing "a little headroom." In fact, that's about 20% headroom above the peak power dissipation of the machine. 620W is approximately double the peak power dissipation of the machine as configured.

Not only will the 620W PSU run less efficiently because it is poorly sized to the load, it will also run less efficiently because it's simply a less efficient PSU than similarly priced options at the 450W size class...

The current price of the 620W Seasonic with promo code, to the door, is $55.
The current price of the 450W Capstone, to the door, is $55
The current price of the 450W Seasonic G, to the door, is $60.

 

[essbeemorton]

Would you recommend the Corsair RM450? I want to use it simply because it has orange accents that compliment the rest of the internals, but obviously it needs to be a sound PSU as well.

 

[CTurbo]

mdocod recommends it but I do not. There are numerous psus that would be better AND cheaper.

 

[mdocod]

Build quality on the RM series is only slightly better than an EVGA B series or CX/Builder series, with a mix of some nice components, and some compromises. From my perspective, the capstone and seasonic G offer less quality compromises for less money.

I don't recommend the RM450.

 

[essbeemorton]

So I sold my iMac for $1,600 and here's the final build I bought today:

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PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Xeon E3-1231 V3 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($242.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-H97-D3H ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($92.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($139.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($119.99 @ B&H)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($51.85 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 970 4GB WINDFORCE Video Card ($359.99 @ Amazon)
Case: Fractal Design Define R5 ATX Mid Tower Case ($109.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 450W 80+ Gold Certified ATX Power Supply ($79.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($18.75 @ OutletPC)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.98 @ OutletPC)
Keyboard: Thermaltake POSEIDON Z Wired Gaming Keyboard ($69.99 @ Directron)
Mouse: SteelSeries Rival Wired Optical Mouse ($44.99 @ Best Buy)
Total: $1421.49
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-01-02 17:02 EST-0500

 

[CTurbo]

You are going to love that. Ballsy move going with a 450w psu though. Hope it works out ok!

 

[essbeemorton]

Yeah, I'm pretty excited! I am a bit upset, however, that PCPartsPicker doesn't actually factor in shipping and taxes cost like it says it does. I paid about $100 more than that build says in shipping and taxes. I know some of it was my fault for not back checking, but it still irks me... oh well, something to keep in mind for the future.

If that 450W doesn't end up working out I'll just bump up to a 650W or something and return the other.

 

[DonkeyOatie]

You are going to love that. Ballsy move going with a 450w psu though. Hope it works out ok!

Should be fine. No more than 100W for system and 150W for GPU should be a doddle on 450W, especially a good one like that. We need to recalibrate power use for top GPUs based on Maxwell. This is not a 290x.

 

[essbeemorton]

Someone told me the Xeon was not a good choice, that they are mostly made for servers. I just thought it was the most cost effective option for me. Can someone help me feel better about that decision?

 

[DonkeyOatie]

[RANT ON]
First. Xeons ARE made for servers. They do not overclock and they do not have an iGPU and they do have some extra memory instructions.

Secondly. SO WHAT!

a. They are cheaper than an i7
b. They are as fast as an i7
c. They have four cores and Hyperthreading like an i7
d. You don't need an iGPU, you have a discrete GPU.
e. You don't need overclocking.

A Xeon is a cost effective solution to your problem arrived at by thinking outside of the server box.

Would it be OK to use a HTPC case for a gaming machine?
Would it be OK to use a gaming motherboard in a rendering machine?

What matters is function and capability, not labels.
[RANT OFF]

 

[CTurbo]

Whoever told you that is IGNORANT and does not know what they are talking about. The Xeon e3-1231v3 is nothing more than an i7 4770 without integrated graphics. That Xeon will perform almost identically to a 4770 in every task. You made a GREAT decision by getting it.