Tweak build to get the best performance?

danmirage

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Mar 24, 2013
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Thank you everyone for all your help in the past (and future)!

Here is a little background to help understand my selections for the build.

I am building a computer to do sleep research. We video sleep and analyze it. The 16 video feeds go into 4 PCIe x1 cards with 4 video in each. This meant that my Mobo needed 4 PCIe x1 slots plus at least a PCIe x16 for the graphics card.

The capture and analysis require the following minimums:
Processor: Intel i7 quad core processor (3.00GHz and above)
Motherboard: 4 x PCIe slots
RAM: Minimum 12GB (ideally 16GB)
Hard drive: 1TB
Video Graphics card: 4GB GDDR5

Here is the build so far is about $1900:
CPU: Intel Core i7-4790K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO
Thermal Compound: Arctic Silver 5 High-Density Polysynthetic Silver 3.5g Thermal Paste
Motherboard: Asus Z97-PRO ATX LGA1150
Memory: Corsair Vengeance Pro 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1866 CAS 9
Storage: 1TB 2.5" Solid State Drive (SATA III )
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 970 4GB
Case: Corsair 200R ATX Mid Tower Case
Power Supply: EVGA 600B 600W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional SP1 (OEM) (64-bit)
Monitor: 27.0" Monitor (to view 16 video feeds at once in the acquisition software.)
Video Capture: Four PCIe x1 video capture cards 4-channels each

So far about 400W estimated for the computer including the 4 PCIe which add around 35W at peak.

I have tried to select components so that I have wiggle room to tweak and grow the system to handle more later on.

My big question is, do you see places I could make better choices?


Other lingering questions that I also have are:
- Does my power supply have all the connectors I need? Is 600W overkill? (I am working to answer this now)
- Will this all fit in the selected case?
- Do the RAM need to be low profile? (Coolermaster nearby)
- Do I need an optical drive...Can I use an external USB CD/DVD drive to do installs?
- Do I need a GPU with 2 fans? Does it matter?
- Will I want any additional fans (on top of the 2 case fans, dual GPU fans, CPU cooling, etc)

[Backup/clearing of the video data from the drive will be into a Drobo connected by USB 3.0, with two 4TB Western Digital drives.]

I look forward to your feedback!!

Once again, thank you!

Dan
 
There are very few with direct experience of what you want, and I'm not one of them, so I'm offering general advice.

I would not use the EVGA 110-B1 at any rating. It's OK, but I think you need something much better. I would want a Gold, semi or completely modular, rated PSU of at least 600W, from Tier 1 or 2 of the PSU list. At the moment, that would be the Tier 2a XFX P1 650B, an XTR PSU. It has four 6+2 PCIe connectors, two of which will be used by the GPU you have.

As far as the rating goes, your total system, excluding your graphics capture cards, will exceed 400W at peak, if you overclock your CPU significantly. I don't know about the other cards, but they cannot get more than 65W from the PCIe, and I don't expect that, so I'd be happy with 550 to 650W, but I suggesting 650W because I'd rather be safe than sorry.

The Carbide 200R is a fine case, but I would look at something larger, to give you more room to work and support. Perhaps a 600T (white sets a good mood)

The fans on the cooler can be moved around or even turned, so 'norma'l RAM should be fine.

You can use a USB2.0 external drive DVD drive (I do)

I don't know about the heat from your other cards, but I don't expect it to be great. I would use a 2 fan GPU or one with a blower that dumps the air outside the case. Many cases include fans already. I would build the system stock and then add one or two additional fans as necessary, perhaps also getting a fan controller if your case does not have one.

This sounds like an interesting build. What state? (I'm in FL)
 

Demosthenest

Admirable
Everything Donkey said is right. I would suggest a Seasonic 620 psu. Are you sure you need a gtx 970 tho? It's basically a gaming component and your work looks more like cpu related. You could skip the gtx 970, get a cheaper one and move to 2011 socket, with a xeon cpu or a 6 core i7.
I would also go for something better than the 212 evo in a 2000 dollar build. Don't expect to overclock much with this cooler, if you want to do serious overclocking you will need an all in one watercooler.
 
The Seasonic is an excellent PSU, but it is not Gold and for the duty cycle on this machine (sleep studies run all night, my wife has sleep apnea, so I've taken her to some) Gold will save money in the long run.

An LGA 1150 Xeon E3 1231 would save money, but cost some CPU speed. I'm assuming that the OP has selected an appropriate socket. I don't see the need for LGA 2011, but maybe.

A better cooler might be necessary for heavy overclocking, but I have yet to hear from the OP. I would not go with a water-cooler for this build. Air should work well and water cooler failure could be a catastrophe for the OP if a leak develops. If going with fluid, I'd want a custom build for this critical use.

I agree with the question about the GTX 970. I would want to know why that GPU was selected. (A GTX 750ti might well be enough)
 

Demosthenest

Admirable

You are right about the psu, it would save money in the long run.
I only think 2011 is an option in a 2000 dollar workstation. If it were gaming I'd say go with 1150, but this requires cpu power.
You are right too about the leaking, air is safer, but if ocing you need a better cooler, I've got the 212 evo and it's not a very good cooler. It's excelent for the money, but it's loud and temps are not perfect.
I was thinking about the 750ti too.
 


I agree with the possible replacement for the EVO, but I need to hear from the OP. They may not even intend to overclock and are just getting the CPU because of the 4.0GHz clock.
 

danmirage

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Mar 24, 2013
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Thank you for the thoughtful discussion!

I am digesting what you have said right now.

PSU
Better PSU, agreed. You are correct; the analysis runs 24/7 for months at a time. That was the one component that I had not actively decided and was sort of a pick to mark the PSU spot on the build list. Tier 2a XFX P1 650B it is.

Bigger case. Good points. I was not sure how much case would be needed.
I think I would be safer finding a non-window case to reduce light pollution via LEDs, which is not good for the testing. The 600T is (H x W x D) 23.00" x 10.40" x 20.30". So, I will look in that size range.

CPU -
That is correct, we don't plan to OC initially, If we find that we need more CPU, I am building for the possibility of OCing. In which case, we would redo the cooling solution. Really, I am not sure about the LGA 2011 vs the 1150. Certainly more CPU is good, I like the idea of 6 core i7.

I did not find an LGA 2011 board that supported the four PCIe x1...

GPU
Good questions: Do I need the GTX 970. Is this need more CPU intensive?
You are probably right that going for more CPU is better.

Why the GTX 970. We do the analysis of the 16 video in real time as well as post. 4GB GDDR5 was recommended by the software we use. Someone pointed me at the GTX 970 as great early on. I added it to the build, not certain how much I need for the GPU.

I will look at the GTX 750 ti.

Concerning the cooling…If the EVO 212 is not so good, what would you recommend for CPU cooling?
 
PSU- Check
Case- Shop around
CPU - check -core 6 is useful only if your software can use it. Just how threaded is it? (Ask software vendor?)
GPU - If you are doing analysis on real time and posting, you may well need the GTX 970. It's an area where I would listen to the software recommendation.

The 212 is an excellent budget cooler. For top-end I would look at Noctua (DH14) or Phanteks.

High overclocking of your CPU is a crapshoot. It all depends in the random inner guts of the particular CPU you get. To reduce stress, I'd look at a horizontal motherboard layout so that the cooler stands vertically.
 

Demosthenest

Admirable


Dan, in my opinion, the 212 evo is fine but it's not good for overclocking heavily.
 

danmirage

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OK,

I am looking for a case with nice airflow and space.
I am checking with the software techs concerning more specs on the CPU and GPU.
I am looking at better coolers.

The actual budget for the computer without video equipment/PCIe was around 1500. I don't think that included the monitor.

I am trying to squeeze out the best rig with the most longevity and some growth potential.

I will also re-post an update of the build.
 

Demosthenest

Admirable


I can recommend the Define r4. It offers good balance between airflow, space and silence.
 

danmirage

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Thank you!

Wifi
Maybe. The study room is not internet wired. It is sealed and yet we can access our wifi...sometimes. On the other computer someone sometimes puts an external wifi.
So, for wifi I was looking at the Asus Z97-PRO ATX LGA1150 indicated, but with integrated wifi.

Bluetooth.
I don't think we have ever used it.

CPU/Mobo
I do not find a LGA 2011 motherboard that will support 4 PCIe x1. So it may not fit our need.
It looks like LGA1150 is my option for 4 PCIe x1.

The Intel Core i7-4790K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor looks to be the best CPU in that class?

I am looking over Coolers, graphics cards...then re-look at cases.

Cases
(we don't need a silent case as the acquisition room near the test room is not quiet, air scrubbers and humidity managers hum along 24/7)
I had put the Define r4 and some other Fractal Design cases on my list to look closely at. I have one rig in a Fractal Design core case and I liked building it.
 

danmirage

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We will see how I do on the CPU lottery.

Thank you for the x1 PCIe WiFi/Bluetooth card. There is a x1 PCIe where the wifi version sits on the board without wifi, but they charge +40 for the board with the wifi card!
 

danmirage

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RAM question

I just realized the CPU says Memory Types: DDR3-1333/1600
I am switching from
Corsair Vengeance Pro 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1866 CAS 9

to

Crucial Ballistix Tactical 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 CAS 8
BLT2KIT8G3D1608DT1TX0 PC3-12800 8-8-8-24 Unbuffered NON-ECC DDR3-1600 • 1.5V, 1024Meg x 64, Low Profile

That should be about equal in performance, I think.

Do you think they will fit under the Phanteks PH-TC12DX?
 

danmirage

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The 750ti does not seem to support 4GB 256-Bit GDDR5.

I found the GTX 760 4GB 256-Bit GDDR5. It is $100 less than the 970.
http://pcpartpicker.com/mr/newegg/evga-video-card-04gp42768kr

It also meets all the basic criteria the software said to meet. It there any reason one is better than the other?

Other than the 970 uses less power.

P.S. I think they just sold out while I was typing!

How about Radeon R9 270X

SAPPHIRE 100364-4GL Radeon R9 270X 4GB 256-Bit GDDR5 is $150 less...
http://pcpartpicker.com/mr/newegg/sapphire-video-card-1003644gl

AGAIN THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR FEEDBACK.
You have been VERY helpful in getting me to a final build!

 
At the time I suggested it I did not realize the need for 4GB.

GTX 970s can be found. My local shop has a couple.

I would not use anything else for this build because of the low power use and high capability. By minimizing power, you save money in many other areas, lower power PSU, less CPU and case cooling, more efficient PSU if temps are lower, lower energy cost. It is also new. If this process is delayed for more than a month or two, new, lower power GPUs are likely to be released. The GTX 760 is at the end of its life. It will be replaced this year (It may be cheaper as a consequence, but I would not use it for your build unless you are really strapped for cash and even then I'd look at system configuration first)

If you are going to overclock, or think that you might, I would be using this http://pcpartpicker.com/part/gskill-memory-f314900cl8d8gbxm It's DDR3-1866 CAS8. You could consider faster. The relentless multi-tasking/threading should be able to use it.

The CPU can use the speed when overclocked. If you read this http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-2473983/tweak-build-performance.html article and similar for Q3 and Q2, you can see the fan/memory/cpu configuration for overclocking machines.

For that fan, you are going to have to check the specs or ask elsewhere. I think that it works, but I'm not certain. Heat spreaders can be modified with Mr Hacksaw or Mrs Dremel quite safely.

The WiFi with the board may be on-board, so it costs more and even if a card, it may be higher spec. My last computer used a small card which came with the motherboard. I'm using it as I type this. I think that you will see an improved connection with 5GHz.
 

danmirage

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I was forced to use university providers for parts and this is what I have just assembled (prices similar but not the suppliers):


CPU: Intel Core i7-4820K 3.7GHz Quad-Core Processor ($319.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Phanteks PH-TC12DX_BK 68.5 CFM CPU Cooler ($49.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: MSI X79A-GD45 Plus ATX LGA2011 Motherboard ($249.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Kingston Savage 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($155.89 @ Amazon)
Storage: Transcend 1TB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($399.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($43.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon R9 270X 4GB Dual-X Video Card ($171.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Cooler Master HAF 912 ATX Mid Tower Case ($67.45 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA NEX 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($64.99 @ NCIX US)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-14 DVD/CD Writer ($13.99 @ Amazon)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($146.98 @ OutletPC)
Monitor: AOC e2752She 60Hz 27.0" Monitor ($199.99 @ Amazon)
Keyboard: Logitech K120 Wired Standard Keyboard ($13.59 @ Amazon)
Mouse: Logitech M100 Wired Optical Mouse ($9.61 @ Amazon)

I just turned it on and went in to the BIOS to bump around.

I am unhappy about the huge number of bright LEDs on the board. I know they are indicators and they did assure me that all was well. I know most people like the lights, but for my application I need no light.

I wish I could disable them in the BIOS!

It is quiet.

I was not happy with the case for a few reasons.
The two included fans are not controlled by the system. Just power on/off.
The PCI back panel openings are odd. The first is ABOVE the first slot. There must be something that needs that.

The MSI board recommends putting the GPU in #1 (though #3 and #6 support x16 Gen3). I would rather put it in #3 or even 5 or 6 if it would work. Naturally, you lose one slot under the 2-space GPU. But then, of the 7 openings, there are only 4 left and I need all 4! On top of that, the fans on the GPU will blow right on to my first PCIe card.

Maybe I will put the GPU in slot 5 (PCIe 2.0 x16) and see if all works! Probably the whole thing will go wrong.
But maybe not...

So, it looks like the spacing was not so good. The original board I looked at would have had a better configuration.

I am thinking of using a PCI-E 1X Extension Ribbon to move the first card in the x1 slot at position 3 to the EXTRA vertical PCI opening that this case has...then the GPU will have breathing room...

Next, install the system and do the installs and upgrades...then let it test-run to test heat management.

Finally, install my graphics capture cards and see if the whole rig works.

It is a beast, but pretty quiet.

After all that, I have to black out the case with some sort of black filter sponge that will allow airflow but not light.....

 


Thanks for the feedback. Some photos would be nice. :)

 

danmirage

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Yes, Photos! I took some.

As soon as I can figure out how to add an image. I guess I have to upload elsewhere, then link.
Will do that later. It is late.

Also, the SSD has been a challenge. It showed up the first time I connected it, then never again in the OS.

SSD only shows in bios and in Intel RSTe. I have tried swapping, then changing all the cables, clearing, setting blank drives to show, etc., but so far nothing. I have emails in to MSI and Transcend. Story below.

The computer sailed quiet and cool through memtest86+ (still running but 10 tests so far), GPU stress and CPU stress tests.

I had to enable RAM XMP so my RAM would function as 1833 not 1600.
I had to enable PCIe Gen3, it defaults to disabled.
I had to find the setting that would allow wake from keyboard or mouse.
CPU fan was set to run at 100%, I reset to smart run, so sometimes it is below a whisper. Temps are 25- 30c and below, up to 40C at the highest so far.
Turbo (auto) takes it to 3.9GHz from 3.7GHz sometimes.
Hitting OC genie accidentally in BIOS brought it up to 4.0GHz briefly on the next boot. But I was restarting shortly after, so I think I have not seen all it can do.
BIOS is 17.8 and there is a 17.9. Most everything seems smooth and I hesitate to upgrade.

Still working on fine tuning. Have not installed my video capture cards yet because I fear I will have to reinstall everything to get the SSD to show. Once the SSD is sorted, Video capture goes in. Cameras will be tested and sleep recording experiments commence.

The SSD story:
New SATAIII (Sata-2 port) connected SSD just connected and initialized and formatted is seen by bios but not OS. Intel RSTe indicates it is locked, requires a password. I would like to use my new SSD but the system does not see it. Help! More details below.

I built the system and all went well. Testing and benchmarking performance went well. Added SSD. Transcend 1TB 2.5" Solid State Drive: TS1TSSD370. Initialized -->Control Panel>> Administrative Tools >>Computer Management >>Disk Management.
Drive was there. Initialized the drive. Right clicked over where is says unallocated and selected created new simple volume.

I don't think I set the volume location or anything else.

Transcend native SSD tool SSD Scope recognized the drive and it said the Firmware was up to date. Performance tested drive. Went fine.

On reboot, drive is not found by SSD Scope.
Now disk management does not see drive.
Device manager does not see it.

Bios can see the drive.

The SSD shows up in Intel (RSTe) Rapid Storage Technology: Drive is listed as Locked and I can not unlock as it asks for a password:

Status Locked (clicking Unlock - leads to asking for password - I never locked it or set a password)
Type SATA SSD
Location Controller 0 Port 1
Cache enabled..
Password protected: yes????
Command cueuing NCQ
Model TS1TSSD370
SCSI Dev ID 1
Firmware 20140516
Physical sector size 512 byte
Logical sector size 512 byte


 
When I put my system together, I started with only the SSD connected to ensure that the OS would go in the right place. I made sure it was connected to the first SATA port and booted, configured, installed OS, and did basic benchmarks before I ever enabled the HDD. I had no problems with that.

One of my students is starting a new build. I'll see how that goes.

Yes. I upload my photos to tinypic and link from there.
 

danmirage

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The HDD has the OS. Since we are acquiring and analyzing at least 16 subjects in real time, we wanted the SSD with faster write read times for that.

I added the SSD after of course.

I was just told by Transcend that maybe I should drop the IRSTe and use native windows SATA drivers.

Hmmm...
 

danmirage

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The computer seems very stable and fast. I have yet to put all 16 cameras on line and acquire and analyze at the same time...But later this week it will go online with 16-20 subjects.

Side view of inside without the PCIe capture cards : http://i62.tinypic.com/mkyywk.jpg
Side view with cable management: http://i57.tinypic.com/2j0mddh.jpg
Back View showing 4 capture cards with 16 video ports: http://i59.tinypic.com/a47bl.jpg
Front View: http://i57.tinypic.com/34o7jw3.jpg

Interesting things about the build...
If you look at the back, the PCIe cards should be in a row below the GPU. However, I used a 1x extension cable to move one to the extra perpendicular port. The reason is that the top PCIe card left 1/8" below the GPU and compromised the airflow, as the GPU fan pulls from below.

The motherboard sports a front side USB3 but the case does not have a front USB3 port. If I need it, I can put one.

If you look at the side view before putting in the PCIe cards, you can see many blue LED. For sleep studies, we can not have any light, so I found an ECO setting in the BIOS to turn them off.

The SSD was RMA'd and I am awaiting a replacement from Transcend.

I did individual and overlapping stress testing. GPU + CPU testing.
(because the use will be CPU and GPU intensive)
...With restricted airflow (experimental filters)
Heat never went over 65-degrees CPU and 75-degrees GPU during overlapping high stress testing.

I think the CPU fan defaults to 100% on all the time.
It is very quiet and max fan speed is only 1800 rpm.

Changing to smart fan settings leads to slower fans at idle but the fan does not increase with loads...
I think it goes back to default on restart.