Is refresh rate what makes the screen 'blurry' when moving?

[Funkosapien]

First of all, I'm a pretty hardcore gamer, run a Planetside 2 outfit for 2+ years n all that. The main thing that's been annoying me lately with my gaming has been the screen being 'blurry' when I move the mouse, which makes target identification and acquisition difficult, especially at range. Hell I can't even read peoples names above their heads unless they are basically standing still and I'm not moving.

I've started doing some research to try and figure out what causes this. And it 'seems' to be refresh rate that is my problem, so I would need a monitor with higher refresh rate (and response time wouldn't hurt?). Would this be spot on? Just wanted to run it past some venerable experts with a better grasp on the subject to make sure I'm headed down the right path.

(looking at this monitor in particular : http://www.asus.com/au/Monitors/ROG_SWIFT_PG278Q/
Any thoughts on this monitor? Will it minimize the problems I've had with the picture being 'blurry' while moving? (Will it make identifying targets while looking around crisper therefore easier?) And anyone know of a 4k monitor either on the market or horizon with similar abilities? Don't mind spending serious bank on a monitor if it'll fix my problems)

Cheers,
Ace.

 

[mouse24]

Its not just about response times. Heck I have a 32" budget TV that only does 720p @ 60hz and it doesn't have any latency problems.

What monitor do you have now? Is this a new thing thats been occurring with the monitor or has it always happened?

 

[Funkosapien]

Current screen :
http://www.staples.com/AOC-e2450Swd-24-inch-LED-Monitor/product_485772

Always happened with this particular monitor I think, just noticed it after I heard the oculus guys talking, it's pretty hard to explain, I just have a hard time reading text and seeing fine details when I move the mouse, its like a motion blur or summint. I just want the image to be crisp when I move the mouse.

Like I said I first started noticing it on me monitor when I heard the oculus rift guys talking about minimizing latency/blur/wateva, then when I saw it, *I couldn't unsee it*, knameen. Think oculus are actually are approaching it by turning the monitor on and off really fast rather than refresh rate but I haven't seen a version of that with a normal monitor?

To explain what I mean in basic terms load up a game, look at some dudes name, gradually move the mouse faster and faster til you can't read the text properly, that's what I wanna spend for, my ability to make out fine details at higher speeds.

Having to stop, start, stop, start just to evaluate my surroundings is very unnatural to me, I like to be able to keep moving and look around in a very fluid manner, and spending some extra bank *so I can see things properly* to be able to play in the way that is natural to me just seems worth it. Does that make any sense or am I sounding like an idiot? (I'm sounding like an idiot aren't I? =p)

 

[Funkosapien]

Found the thing that made me start seeing blur : http://youtu.be/OlXrjTh7vHc?t=1m7s
Is low persistance a thing with monitors? I can't seem to find one that references it?

 

[mouse24]

Ah I see what you mean now. I was thinking it was a legit motion blur effect that was going on throughout all your games. I was very confused.

Anyhow I think what you might be experiencing can be solved with a Gsync compatible monitor and GPU, I however have never experienced a Gsync monitor so I would really recommend waiting for some other input than my own. Sorry I can't help more, I've never really found it to be an issue so I haven't delved deep into the subject.

Its just something I've heard from various review sites, Gsync = crisp text while its moving.

 

[Funkosapien]

If someone can clarify that from a body of knowledge, that'd be amazing. And if that is the case, and G-Sync = crisp picture while moving. I'm counting the days til I can upgrade.

 

[Funkosapien]

I also saw reference that a new display port being released would mean the possibility of screens not unlike the rog swift, but 4k? Does this have roots in truth? Apart from the fact they'd probably cost $2k up, whats the timeframe on seeing decent monitors? Another year or 2? Don't think I can wait that long.

 

[Funkosapien]

Acer have a 144hz, G Sync, IPS monitor due out, which apparently has better colours than the ROC which apparently is using something called 'TN' or something.

http://www.pcgamer.com/acer-unveil-super-quick-144hz-g-sync-ips-monitor/

Interesting.

 

[Funkosapien]

Hullo? Is anyone there?

 

[Neur0nauT]

Hullo? Is anyone there?

When you say blur effect, are you referring to choppiness, as if there are frames skipping on the screen? and you can notice lines for milliseconds? If so, then this is down to your refresh rate, and you would do well to try switching v-sync on.

If you currently have V-sync switched on, then try with it switched off.

Your next step would be to invest in a high refresh rate monitor like 120Hz or 144Hz.

Nvidia currently have G-Sync monitors too, but these are expensive. G-Sync uses a chip built into the monitor to keep the frames from skipping as your system produces them, so everything stays in line and runs smooth.

AMD are soon to release Free-Sync on some upcoming monitors, which is effectively the same thing but will not be as expensive.

The TN reference is the type of screen panel that monitors use, there are two main types, these are: Twisted Nematic (TN) and In-Plane-Switching (IPS)

TN panels are cheaper, but have smaller viewing angles, quicker response, and less vibrant colours. IPS panels are more expensive but have better angles, and brighter colours, but usually suffer from longer response times, which can cause frame skips.

Adaptive Sync is basically the technology used but without the license of either party.

 

[Funkosapien]

I'm honestly, a bit of novice with screen tech, so my description of 'blurryness' may or may not be the correct one, and I apologize for that.

What I'm referring to is when I move the mouse in an FPS how 'crisp' the picture is. Indeed, this can likely be simulated by moving your mouse around, notice when you move it around in circles you see multiples of the cursor?

Also, I just found this thread and I'll quote from it :
http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-1855770/understanding-refresh-rate-response-time-relatonship.html

"At 120Hz (and assuming 120 FPS output from GPU) you are getting
120 frames per 1 second =
120 frames per 1000 ms =
1 frame every 8.3ms

So assuming a 120Hz monitor and a 120 FPS output from the GPU, every 8.3333 ms (1/120th of a second) a new frame is generated and sent to the monitor to display. The pixels START changing colors. The response time is the time it takes for the pixels to go from the old frame color to the new frame color. The shorter the better obviously. In a 120Hz monitor if the response time is for example 1ms (for all pixels, see below) it will take 1ms for all pixels to change and then for the remainder of this cycle (7.333 next ms) the frame will be static. We can all see how if the response time is greater than 8.333 ms for a 120Hz screen this would be terrible as the pixels would never quite achieve the final color of the current frame before having to start displaying the next frame again."

So from what I can gather the picture is sent every 8.3ms, and on the ROG Swift with 1ms response time the picture is 'clear' for 7.3ms. This would be what I mean by a 'clear' picture. However while this crispness of display is still my primary motive for upgrading, I am also weighing up the possibility of IPS. Here's 2 I'm looking at at the moment :

ASUS ROG Swift
http://www.asus.com/au/Monitors/ROG_SWIFT_PG278Q/
TN 120hz 1ms response

Acer Predator
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MO-077-AC
IPS 120hz 4ms response

Now, while the ACER does have the vaunted IPS technology for superior colours, realistically, the picture is only going to be crystal for less than half the time its on screen yes? If this is the case I'm thinking I might stick with the ROG Swift just because it'd allow me to be more competitive in FPS. Would you say this would be a wise decision considering what I'm upgrading for (competitive gaming)?

 

[Neur0nauT]

I'm honestly, a bit of novice with screen tech, so my description of 'blurryness' may or may not be the correct one, and I apologize for that.

What I'm referring to is when I move the mouse in an FPS how 'crisp' the picture is. Indeed, this can likely be simulated by moving your mouse around, notice when you move it around in circles you see multiples of the cursor?

Also, I just found this thread and I'll quote from it :
http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-1855770/understanding-refresh-rate-response-time-relatonship.html

"At 120Hz (and assuming 120 FPS output from GPU) you are getting
120 frames per 1 second =
120 frames per 1000 ms =
1 frame every 8.3ms

So assuming a 120Hz monitor and a 120 FPS output from the GPU, every 8.3333 ms (1/120th of a second) a new frame is generated and sent to the monitor to display. The pixels START changing colors. The response time is the time it takes for the pixels to go from the old frame color to the new frame color. The shorter the better obviously. In a 120Hz monitor if the response time is for example 1ms (for all pixels, see below) it will take 1ms for all pixels to change and then for the remainder of this cycle (7.333 next ms) the frame will be static. We can all see how if the response time is greater than 8.333 ms for a 120Hz screen this would be terrible as the pixels would never quite achieve the final color of the current frame before having to start displaying the next frame again."

So from what I can gather the picture is sent every 8.3ms, and on the ROG Swift with 1ms response time the picture is 'clear' for 7.3ms. This would be what I mean by a 'clear' picture. However while this crispness of display is still my primary motive for upgrading, I am also weighing up the possibility of IPS. Here's 2 I'm looking at at the moment :

ASUS ROG Swift
http://www.asus.com/au/Monitors/ROG_SWIFT_PG278Q/
TN 120hz 1ms response

Acer Predator
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MO-077-AC
IPS 120hz 4ms response

Now, while the ACER does have the vaunted IPS technology for superior colours, realistically, the picture is only going to be crystal for less than half the time its on screen yes? If this is the case I'm thinking I might stick with the ROG Swift just because it'd allow me to be more competitive in FPS. Would you say this would be a wise decision considering what I'm upgrading for (competitive gaming)?

You have pretty much nailed it here. Since you've stated that you are going to be into competitive gaming, you'll what the best you can get. Based on what kind of GPU you are using, you might want to wait for another few weeks/months until a new bunch of Adaptive sync monitors hit the market. This one looks quite promising: http://www.pcper.com/news/Displays/CES-2015-ASUS-MG279Q-27-2560x1440-IPS-120-Hz-Variable-Refresh-Monitor

Personally TN/IPS thing is lost on me, as I am more focused on FPS/refresh/overall smoothness rather than vivid colours. Unless I was doing photo/video editing alongside my gaming, I don't feel the need for extra expense with an IPS panel, but I would get one if the price was right.

 

[Funkosapien]

You have pretty much nailed it here. Since you've stated that you are going to be into competitive gaming, you'll what the best you can get. Based on what kind of GPU you are using, you might want to wait for another few weeks/months until a new bunch of Adaptive sync monitors hit the market. This one looks quite promising: http://www.pcper.com/news/Displays/CES-2015-ASUS-MG279Q-27-2560x1440-IPS-120-Hz-Variable-Refresh-Monitor

Personally TN/IPS thing is lost on me, as I am more focused on FPS/refresh/overall smoothness rather than vivid colours. Unless I was doing photo/video editing alongside my gaming, I don't feel the need for extra expense with an IPS panel, but I would get one if the price was right.

Sorry about the late response buddy, hectic couple weeks, negotiating a merger with me clan, has kept me mind preoccupied even when I ain't been negotiating it =p. And aye me CPU is an nvidia 770, though I do plan on upgrading that with an 80 or 90 of whatever the next series of nvidia card is (taking a punt since we're on the 9 series, I'm thinking they'd be called 1090's or something?). So since I run nvidia, sticking with a gsync monitor shouldn't be a problem yeah?

And aye, that monitor sure is perdy, but much like the Acer 21:9 one I was looking at, without a solid refresh rate stat I'm just not sure if I should hold out for it or not?

And aye, I do a lot of both Video and Image editing, but the number one priority for me is gaming with this monitor, I can always pick up a 4k+ IPS monitor at a later date to use for that stuff. That being said though, if I could find an IPS monitor with the same performance as the ROG Swift, I'd jump at it, even if you tacked on an extra at a guess 50% on the price I wouldn't even consider another option, I'd just do what I needed to do to get it done.

Full specs (getting one video card upgrade, then not upgrading again til I build a new Tower) :
CASE : Thermaltake Spacecraft
PSU : Antec True Power 900 Watt
UPS : EATON 420w 700VA (It's long enough to get Computer off safely if the power goes out and that's all I need)
MOBO : Asus Sabertooth Z77
CPU : Intel i7 3770k
GPU : nVidia 770
RAM : 32gb G.Skill Ares 1866mhz
SCREEN : AOC 24'' 2ms
SSD : 250gb Samsung 840 Series
HD : 3tb, 2tb, 2tb, 1tb
Moose : Cyborg Rat 7
Moose Mat : Razer Vespula
Keyboard : Corsair K70 Vengeance
Headset : Gamescom 777
Stereo : Big

 

[Kari]

i'd like to add one more thing about response times. The time you see in ads is typically the grey-to-grey transition time, gtg for short. Transitions between certain colours will take a lot longer. Different panels behave differently in this aspect. So you get ghosting (blurryness if you will) that depens on the colours. Also there is technique called pixel overdrive that actually overshoots the control signal at the beginning of the state transition to make the pixel more quickly achieve the desired state. If the overshoot is too aggressive the pixel can go too far and then it takes some time to revert to the desired state, this will create different kind of blurryness called overdrive artefacts or inverse ghosting. (thou usually this is user configurable to some extent)
Well I guess all im trying to tell is dont just look at the advertised specs but try to find some reviews as well..

 

[Neur0nauT]

I would wait until a load of these Free-Sync/Adaptive sync monitors drop later this month, The older 120Hz G-Sync monitors might lower in price then, and you could maybe get a good deal on at least a TN panel. If you are looking at getting an IPS the the ROG Swift or similar is the way to go, but they are costly.

THen theres this Adaptive sync one, that will work on Nvidia & AMD: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MO-078-AC&groupid=17&catid=948