How bad are "next-gen" consoles for PC gaming?

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DasHotShot

DasHotShot

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Hi all,

Having read about another big, upcoming AAA title release being throttled to 1080p 30FPS (http://wccftech.com/fallout-4-run-1080p-30-fps/) I feel I need to ask:

Considering the average lifespan of consoles, are we actually meant to stand by and watch how this entire generation ("next-gen" my behind) of crossplatform titles are going to be developed to run at a max 1080p native or lower and be capped to 30 or 60FPS...whilst most mid-range and better gaming PC's are capable of far higher performance and visuals?

It used to be bad enough that developers were developing a lot of the big releases for console and then releasing games a little later on PC, in many cases "porting" them so to say...however they still ended up looking decent in many cases.

Now, we are at a stage where PC gaming is moving to 1440p/4k or 1080p Gsync/Freesync/144Hz...

Surely the current state of affairs means that the "potato" and PS4 are putting us back years in terms of pushing GFX boundaries?

People used to buy flagship cards to experience top level visuals etc.

Now you can almost settle for a mid range GTX 960 to get the maximum visuals from a game because it was developed for a far lower powered machine in the first place.

One could argue that is positive as it gives more people access to the best experience, however that would be short sighted imo, as we are no longer anywhere near pushing the boundaries and really seeing content that just blows our mind.

There is more talk of downgrades and such, than revolutionary gfx advances and it makes me really sad personally...

What about you?
 
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Vice93

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Pretty sure the dev meant Fallout 4 will run at 30fps on everything except PC.
It's very doubtful that Bethesda will lock the game in 30fps on the PC release.

Have a look here Twitter.
 
DasHotShot

DasHotShot

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Oh I know it won't be locked to 30FPS on PC...that isn't the point though.

The point is, the game is being designed to run (just about, I mean 30 FPS sucks) on a Pitcairn GPU and weird low power draw CPU combo at 1080p,,,

Fallout 4 will run on the highest settings without AA on a mid range card with ease I think, there is nothing to suggest it wouldn't, bearing other similar releases in mind.

With the gap of console components and your average gaming PC being so VAST now, I feel we aren't getting anywhere near the game that we could.

An example is, the guys making X-com said they need to make it PC exclusive as they could otherwise not fullfill their vision in terms of visuals and gameplay elements due to heavily restricted resources on console...

So imagine all these titles being made without those severe restrictions in place...
 
gamerk316

gamerk316

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You talk as if 90% of the games sold aren't sold to people using budget PCs. Devs are free to put in as much eye candy as they want; that's why we have selectable settings. What it comes down to, is that really advanced graphical effects take a MASSIVE hit to performance (See: HBAO+, or anything to do with Physics).

We're basically stuck until we get GPUs that can handle Ray Casting. That's why you've seen so much focus on AA modes, Vsync, and the like.
 
DasHotShot

DasHotShot

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I don't think it's a matter of under powered GPUs...

The fact that a console can't do ray casting or ray traced effects means that developers of cross platform titles are simply less inclined to invest time in adding these features...

I think Star Citizen will show definitely the difference or the epic chasm that is console vs PC gfx and where we are in both regards.

We are talking several generations of difference in terms of potential of PCs and consoles.q

And that is despite the PC being an open platform and non-conform to one set of specs...meaning optimization is far mroe difficult.

It's just too big a gap and I find it has become unacceptable
 
DasHotShot

DasHotShot

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PC gaming overtook console gaming spend this year...

It is an indicator of the market speaking. Also, how is console gaming in any way more profitable?

The fact you charge 25% more for a new release on console versus PC doesn't mean PC is less profitable...it means you are spending on overheads like a case/disc and booklet and having to raise the price.

 
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NassimHC

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If businesses thought they could make more money on PC than console they would develop for PC. But no consoles are still in the front seat and this is what you are complaining about. Big business seems to think consoles are the way to go...
 
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Vice93

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Think it's more about that the devs only have to optimize the game for one hardware combination as opposed to PC having thousands of different combinations. And so they only need one set of settings. - And theres piracy of course.

In the end, nobody wants to be excluded, be they pc or console gamer.

Only thing I'd really complain about is Microsoft and Sony buying the rights for some games to promote their shitty console. Be it timed or permanent exclusive, it still a big fuck you towards all pc gamers.
 
mr91

mr91

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Games like the Wither 3 and Watchdogs were downgraded from their E3 demo however both games still look good...

Game developers are catering to the masses because most people don not have Titan X's, 980 ti's or even 980's with a recent i7...

If developers raise the bar the game requirements will be out of reach to many pc gamers.

AC unity was ambitious & the result was many people were complaining that a 680 is a ridicules minimum requirement. People with high end hardware were complaining that it didn't run very well. I was satisfied because my hardware is very powerful. There were a few bugs however this happens with new games. I played this game with the 980 and Titan X with an overclocked 4790k.
 
DasHotShot

DasHotShot

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Nassim - Big business is a very vague term. The reason games are developed this way is because it means you unlock revenue from both console and PC, without excluding either. If they developed for PC, they would lose consoles revenue.

It DOESN'T mean that they think "the big bucks" are in consoles.

Witcher 3 was downgraded and adapted to suit all platforms as the studio wanted the revenue off console gamers in order to make the game as huge as it is. They could easily have opted not to and released the game as the infamous CG trailer showed.

So here is the problem. They want to use the open platform and use their skill to make stunning games, are bound to resource limitations of the old console hardware though. Here is my gripe.


mr91 - Not at all. Pc games can be adapted to suit a great range of specs, this is the beauty of PC gaming. If you made a game that looks as good as any PS4 game you would target i3/radeon 270 spec PCS...hardly enthusiast levels...

So imagine the potential upward, you have, to add awesome visuals and other elements to allow those with medium/high/ultra spec pcs to enjoy...

Right now we are given "AAA" games, which work on the standard of 5 year old mid range PCs...that is hardly pushing the envelope, is it
 
mr91

mr91

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I understand your complaint however not everybody is prepared to spend a $1000 US dollars on a graphic card like us.
I agree with what you're saying because it would benefit us the 1% of PC Gamers...

The PC platform is doing well, the console architecture is now basically a low powered PC with 8 threads and 8 GB of vram.
Direct X 12 is coming which will hopefully help... Things are now going in the right direction.

10 years ago this landscape was a lot different, Consoles were using a different architecture and were more important to most developers....
 
mr91

mr91

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People that decided to save a few hundred dollars and get the 780 and 780 ti can't play Shadow of mordor & Watch dogs @ 1080p with ultra textures.
I had both cards in the past.

Why is this because the games were designed for the consoles unified memory architecture.
 
DasHotShot

DasHotShot

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1%....?

Your figures are fabricated to put it politely.

PC Gaming is a bigger market than console gaming (http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2014/04/28/as-global-pc-game-revenue-surpasses-consoles-how-long-should-console-makers-keep-fighting/)

Also do you think that 1% of PC gamers own a system that has a higher spec than console? You need to refresh your information and have a good think.

On top of this, do you think 1% of PC gamers own a 980Ti or better? Again...you need to think about basic economics and business for only a short moment to discover how nonsensical a notion that is.

Conservatively I would claim that at least 50% of the PC gamers out there, suffer from console focused game development if not more...
 
mr91

mr91

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76.9 % of steam users have a dx 11 and as of may less than 1% of users have a gtx 980. This gives you a idea of what is going because most people with a decent graphics card have a steam game....
 
DasHotShot

DasHotShot

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You have to be careful with that survey and put the data in context.

It shows that in May this year, of people of took part and sent their spec through, x % had x GPU.

It doesn't represent the whole market, whatsoever, though it makes for interesting reading, regardless.
 
DasHotShot

DasHotShot

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Either way, our high end GFX PC market is not as small as one might think.

And not so long ago, it was something to aim for...I don't feel it is any longer when $1000 cost difference specs can give identical results.


Just an opinion in a discussion thread
 
mr91

mr91

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I'm aware that the ultra enthusiast market is growing despite the reductions in general PC sales....

Are you referring to the difference between the Titan X and the 980 ti?
 
DasHotShot

DasHotShot

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Actually desktop sales are going down in general, PC gaming component / desktop sales are rising. Again it is vital to define the context when you make that statement.

Most people who use it for basic tasks like browsing, office apps etc are opting for tablets and laptops. Ever more gamers are buying gaming components though.

No I wasn't referring to Nvidia's disgraceful betrayal of Titan X customers, however...

If I use a system with an i5 and GTX 970 I can play games on the same settings and lock in 60FPS on a staqndard 1440p screen as I can with an i7 and a GTX Titan X...that is pretty unfair and never used to be the case.

You got waht you paid for and though Titan X will obliterate other cards in high res multi screen situations or 4k the entry into max level visuals is no longer proportionate to the cost of components.

That is because games no longer need flagshjp GPU's to run on the highest settings.

Think back 5, q7, 10 years...very different story. You could still easily define low, mid and high end specs.
 
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