Tom's Site for Programming?

[turkey3_scratch]

We obviously have Tomshardware and Tomsguide, but will Tom's ever expand to the software and programming side of the world of computers? As much as I enjoy helping people with hardware, I'd love to help people with programming (because frankly Stackoverflow just makes me mad).

 

[IInuyasha74]

It would be cool to see a Tom's Software site. I could see us expanding into software more heavily at some point. We are working to expand the scope of our editorial coverage now, but we haven't really discussed (that I am aware of) moving more deeply into software than we already are. Maybe one day.

 

[turkey3_scratch]

Right now, there is not really any major site to help people who are new to programming. Stackoverflow is more for experts, but I always liked how Tomshardware always welcomes new people to hardware and allows any type of beginner question. I know there are many people out there who are new to programming, and I'd be happy to help them, but there is no good source where they can get that help. If Tomshardware only allowed complex, expert questions, it would not be as popular as it is today, and I would hope to some day see a Tom's site for programming like so.

 

[ssddx]

or, at the very minimum a section devoted to programming type questions with some special rules in place regarding code.

 

[turkey3_scratch]

or, at the very minimum a section devoted to programming type questions with some special rules in place regarding code.

Yes even a section on programming would be nice to have. We do have Windows sections and general software sections, so programming would be nice to have. But programming is just as huge as hardware that I feel it would merit its very own site.

 

[IInuyasha74]

The Joe or Kevin might be able to do the forum entry, not sure. It would be a welcome addition, I think it is just because programming is so complex that it prohibits strong editorial analysis and large community support. I honestly can't say for sure. I've been interested in learning programming for years, got my ankles wet toying with it. Basic HTML and some android firmware programming was about as far as I have got. Essentially all of us on the editorial side can do some of the real light stuff like editing settings and configs in code, but that's about it.

Not sure how the much the mods and other members know about it, but it is certainly worthy trying. We can't expect to build up a strong software community if we don't at least give them a place to speak.

 

[Eximo]

Aren't there some programming flags? I do occasionally answer programming related questions on here. Usually new IT people with ambitious goals in mind reaching out for solutions. (Usually to things that are solved by free tools or scripts, or only within the scope of expensive enterprise class tools) We seem to get general network infrastructure questions that pop up from time to time. Sort of hardware related, but usually more on the software side of the questions about how to configure a network.

Hmm, to start out with programming I would say there are the w3schools.com and tons of simple tutorials from Microsoft and others just floating around on the internet. Lots of example code as well and basic templates for most simple programming tasks. Not sure a dedicated site needs to exist, any grounding in a single language is enough and then you have stackoverflow. Get a lot of good general ideas there and then apply them in whatever language the solution requires.

Just as easy as heading off to any re-use store or library and pick up any old programming book for java or C++ or something. Might be out of date, but the basics hardly change between programming languages or versions, just syntax really. With Eclipse and VS Express not really any need to purchase anything to get started.

Mind I am not actually a programmer, but work in IT. These days I manage most IT functions with software tools and hard troubleshooting of vendor software. Amazing how much XP centric design goes into software designed for Windows Vista and up. UAC and permissions shouldn't be this hard to deal with a decade into it. Occasional VB or Powershell scripting, sometimes SQL queries.

 

[turkey3_scratch]

The Joe or Kevin might be able to do the forum entry, not sure. It would be a welcome addition, I think it is just because programming is so complex that it prohibits strong editorial analysis and large community support. I honestly can't say for sure. I've been interested in learning programming for years, got my ankles wet toying with it. Basic HTML and some android firmware programming was about as far as I have got. Essentially all of us on the editorial side can do some of the real light stuff like editing settings and configs in code, but that's about it.

Not sure how the much the mods and other members know about it, but it is certainly worthy trying. We can't expect to build up a strong software community if we don't at least give them a place to speak.

Yes, a small programming section would be interesting, I'd be curious as to how that would go and how many programming posts would come up.

Tomshardware actually already has a code BBCode tag.

function animate(id,type,param) {
	if(type === 'fade') {
		get(id,'id');
		if(!current.hasOwnProperty('waitlist')) {
			current.waitlist = [];
		}
		if(!current.hasOwnProperty('meter')) {
			current.meter = 0;
		}
		var length = current.waitlist.length;
		var thiswait = length;
		if(param[0] === 'auto') {
			var next = -1;
			if(current.meter === 0) {
				next = 1;
			} else if(current.meter === 100) {
				next = 0;
			}
			if(next !== -1) {
				current.waitlist.push([next,length]);
			}
		} else if(param[0] === 1) {
			current.waitlist.push([1,length]);
		} else {
			current.waitlist.push([0,length]);
		}
		function frame1() {
			get(id,'id');
			if(current.waitlist[0][1] === thiswait) {
				var dir = current.waitlist[0][0];
				if(dir === 1) {
					current.style.display = param[1];
					current.meter += 5;
					current.style.opacity = current.meter / 100;
					if(current.meter === 100) {
						current.waitlist.shift();
						clearInterval(intervalId);
					}
				} else {
					current.meter -= 5;
					current.style.opacity = current.meter / 100;
					if(current.meter === 0) {
						current.style.display = 'none';
						current.waitlist.shift();
						clearInterval(intervalId);
					}
				}
			}
		}
		if(next !== -1) {
			var intervalId = setInterval(frame1,16);
		}
	}
}

^^Just testing it out, I've never used it before unless I can't remember exactly. It should probably scroll

 

[randomizer]

It would be a welcome addition, I think it is just because programming is so complex that it prohibits strong editorial analysis and large community support.

Nonsense. When it comes to programming, editorials need merely to have passionate opinions defended as unquestionable fact. Anyone can do that

 

[turkey3_scratch]

I am mostly skilled in HTML, CSS, PHP, SQL, and Javascript (so web stuff). I hope to get into C#. I have a book on it that I keep putting it off (ironically it's written by a guy names John Sharp). I know I'd encounter questions and such would not have a good place to ask that question as a beginner to C# without being belittled on SO.

 

[IInuyasha74]

It would be a welcome addition, I think it is just because programming is so complex that it prohibits strong editorial analysis and large community support.

Nonsense. When it comes to programming, editorials need merely to have passionate opinions defended as unquestionable fact. Anyone can do that

Yes, but it is still limited by the number of people who are educated about such things. For example, a journalist who is well educated in cars, medicine, home improvement etc. can easily write about those topics, but would face difficulties trying to write about tech. We have well educated members of our community who never miss a chance to point out when something is slightly off, and we have to be well educated ourselves in this topic to show we can credibly write about it, otherwise the community loses the ability to take what we say as fact and our site suffers. Just the same, I couldn't turn around and write as a medical journalist or automotive journalist without an enormous amount of prior study.

In order to editorially cover software, we would need to have a consolidated group of journalists who are well versed in numerous forms of coding, not just one or two each. Then you also have to consider that a programmer that has any talent probably has more profitable means of employment in that line of work. Having an opinion is easy, but that person also needs to have some skill at writing in a way that is very concise and easily understood by the full spectrum of readers that might come, including those who know absolutely nothing about coding. They also can't simply state their opinion as fact, they have to give strong evidence to support it. It doesn't matter how strongly they believe in an inaccurate opinion, if they can't back it up with facts or prove it is fact then it makes us look like an uncredible source for information.

In the end, you aren't going to find a lot of people who are both capable and willing to take on this task.

 

[turkey3_scratch]

It would be a welcome addition, I think it is just because programming is so complex that it prohibits strong editorial analysis and large community support.

Nonsense. When it comes to programming, editorials need merely to have passionate opinions defended as unquestionable fact. Anyone can do that

Yes, but it is still limited by the number of people who are educated about such things. For example, a journalist who is well educated in cars, medicine, home improvement etc. can easily write about those topics, but would face difficulties trying to write about tech. We have well educated members of our community who never miss a chance to point out when something is slightly off, and we have to be well educated ourselves in this topic to show we can credibly write about it, otherwise the community loses the ability to take what we say as fact and our site suffers. Just the same, I couldn't turn around and write as a medical journalist or automotive journalist without an enormous amount of prior study.

In order to editorially cover software, we would need to have a consolidated group of journalists who are well versed in numerous forms of coding, not just one or two each. Then you also have to consider that a programmer that has any talent probably has more profitable means of employment in that line of work. Having an opinion is easy, but that person also needs to have some skill at writing in a way that is very concise and easily understood by the full spectrum of readers that might come, including those who know absolutely nothing about coding. In the end, you aren't going to find a lot of people who are both capable and willing to take on this task.

Having a programming section on the forums doesn't necessarily mean articles about coding would need to be published.

 

[IInuyasha74]

I know, I'm speaking on the idea of adding software content on the editorial side. I already said I think a place in the forums would be welcomed change.

 

[turkey3_scratch]

I know, I'm speaking on the idea of adding software content on the editorial side. I already said I think a place in the forums would be welcomed change.

And another thing is what to write about. There is more interesting hardware news than software typically.

 

[itmoba]

It would be a welcome addition, I think it is just because programming is so complex that it prohibits strong editorial analysis and large community support.

Nonsense. When it comes to programming, editorials need merely to have passionate opinions defended as unquestionable fact. Anyone can do that

Yes, but it is still limited by the number of people who are educated about such things. For example, a journalist who is well educated in cars, medicine, home improvement etc. can easily write about those topics, but would face difficulties trying to write about tech. We have well educated members of our community who never miss a chance to point out when something is slightly off, and we have to be well educated ourselves in this topic to show we can credibly write about it, otherwise the community loses the ability to take what we say as fact and our site suffers. Just the same, I couldn't turn around and write as a medical journalist or automotive journalist without an enormous amount of prior study.

In order to editorially cover software, we would need to have a consolidated group of journalists who are well versed in numerous forms of coding, not just one or two each. Then you also have to consider that a programmer that has any talent probably has more profitable means of employment in that line of work. Having an opinion is easy, but that person also needs to have some skill at writing in a way that is very concise and easily understood by the full spectrum of readers that might come, including those who know absolutely nothing about coding. They also can't simply state their opinion as fact, they have to give strong evidence to support it. It doesn't matter how strongly they believe in an inaccurate opinion, if they can't back it up with facts or prove it is fact then it makes us look like an uncredible source for information.

In the end, you aren't going to find a lot of people who are both capable and willing to take on this task.

Never underestimate the laziness and will of a Johannes factotum.

That said, all editorials are subjective. Of course people have differing opinions, programming or otherwise -- simply take a look at the perpetual war over conventions, like, CamelCase, Snake case, and Hungarian notation. Heck, it doesn't require more than a minute to find inflamed opprobrious drivel about things as mundane as K&R style vs. Allman vs. GNU. Or, better yet, need one be reminded of the insipidly fervid campaigns between Vim and Emacs? (Note: Personally, I belong to the Church of Vim; sorry, Emacs sucks.) Though it galls me to say it, one can even argue that Brainf*ck is a better language than Pascal, though that'd certainly be a tough cookie to sell. Was it not Linus Torvalds, a giant himself, who said "C++ is a horrible language. It's made more horrible by the fact that a lot of substandard programmers use it, to the point where it's much much easier to generate total and utter crap with it."

Point being? The platitudes of programming are plentiful by nature, for its polemic pursuit is as plaintive as it is piquant.

I say a programming section be added! Software is often discussed on the forums as is, so why not delineate said forums a bit more precisely so that questions about writing software can be given the focus and attention it warrants? From a purely fiscal perspective, Tom's wins regardless -- such is especially the case, given that Tom's is more likely to appear on the front page results of a Google query on account of the way that PageRank fundamentally operates.

 

[Saga Lout]

Well done TurkeyScratch for raising this. It's something Tom's should take on board.

Complexity is no excuse to duck this - every journey starts with a single step.

C Sharp - John Sharp?

 

[itmoba]

#!/usr/bin/perl
use Term::ANSIColor;
my @moo = `cowsay 'this needs more mooovement!'`;
foreach (@moo) {
    print color("bold blue"), $_, color("reset");
}

 

[ScrewySqrl]

my main concern of a programming for beginners section is the number of people who would post their homework here and get an answer,

 

[randomizer]

There's already a sticky about homework questions. It can be revised as needed.

 

[Titillating]

I saw this thread as I was leaving the office yesterday, thinking I would drop a response when I got to work this morning. This sort of really took off, wow!

So first, I think this is a great idea. In fact, I've suggested the addition of such a section a few times in meetings, but the general feeling was that there wasn't enough of an interest here for any kind of consistent discussion or community to form around that topic. I had been brainstorming ideas to bring that software focus to one of Purch's less robust communities, but it's tough to execute and I had hit a wall.

If there is a legitimate interest in this, then I will do all I can to push for such an addition here on Tom's. If you know other forum members who would have an interest in this, get them to voice their opinions here! If you all make a big fuss about it, it will be easier for me to make a big fuss about it

 

[ScrewySqrl]

There's already a sticky about homework questions. It can be revised as needed.

yes. and some early level assignments are easy to spot. But not stuff past early programs.

a request for something simple, like 'hello world' or 'I need to plug this apparently random set of numbers in and sort them' yeah, easily spottable as a homework assignment.

an assignment to create a blackjack game might have a post requesting info on making a good random number generator. Without knowing it an assignment,m how would you tell a post stating "What;'s a good code for making a random number generator" is a request to get the meat of his simple card shuffle program homework assignment done?

 

[turkey3_scratch]

I saw this thread as I was leaving the office yesterday, thinking I would drop a response when I got to work this morning. This sort of really took off, wow!

So first, I think this is a great idea. In fact, I've suggested the addition of such a section a few times in meetings, but the general feeling was that there wasn't enough of an interest here for any kind of consistent discussion or community to form around that topic. I had been brainstorming ideas to bring that software focus to one of Purch's less robust communities, but it's tough to execute and I had hit a wall.

If there is a legitimate interest in this, then I will do all I can to push for such an addition here on Tom's. If you know other forum members who would have an interest in this, get them to voice their opinions here! If you all make a big fuss about it, it will be easier for me to make a big fuss about it

I'm actually surprised myself at how much attention this got. Yeah, I'll see if I can get some other people to pitch in, maybe PM a couple people.

 

[itmoba]

It's up to the user to discern whether or not they believe something doesn't pass the "smell test," be it a homework assignment problem or otherwise. One can only practice prudence to the best of their ability. Personally, I think it's one thing to ask a question, and it's another thing entirely to answer said question. If someone asks what's wrong with their code, the proper response isn't to solve the problem at hand but rather to point the person in the right direction.

It's one thing to paste your code and ask what's wrong with it, and it's another thing entirely to tell them how to solve their problem. If someone asks how to make a good random number generator in, say, 'C', then the proper answer is to say: see 'man 3 rand'. Or, you can tell them to lookup the Mersenne twister. It's up to them to be able to understand it, and it's up to the teacher to tell whether or not the student is cheating.

 

[itmoba]

I saw this thread as I was leaving the office yesterday, thinking I would drop a response when I got to work this morning. This sort of really took off, wow!

So first, I think this is a great idea. In fact, I've suggested the addition of such a section a few times in meetings, but the general feeling was that there wasn't enough of an interest here for any kind of consistent discussion or community to form around that topic. I had been brainstorming ideas to bring that software focus to one of Purch's less robust communities, but it's tough to execute and I had hit a wall.

If there is a legitimate interest in this, then I will do all I can to push for such an addition here on Tom's. If you know other forum members who would have an interest in this, get them to voice their opinions here! If you all make a big fuss about it, it will be easier for me to make a big fuss about it

I'm actually surprised myself at how much attention this got. Yeah, I'll see if I can get some other people to pitch in, maybe PM a couple people.

I forgot to say that I'm a freelance for Tom's. Any of the moderators can look at the email address I used to register and ask Matt Humrick from the mobile section if I am, indeed, a freelance. I'm certainly more than interested in this and am certainly interested in helping out if I can, be it pro bono or not.

 

[IInuyasha74]

I forgot to say that I'm a freelance for Tom's. Any of the moderators can look at the email address I used to register and ask Matt Humrick from the mobile section if I am, indeed, a freelance. I'm certainly more than interested in this and am certainly interested in helping out if I can, be it pro bono or not.

Heya Matt. I'm MJ, not sure if you recognize my account or not. You should probably talk to Seth, get them to tie your work and account together.

As for the homework thing, I think it should just depend what exactly they are asking. If it is like "Help me write code for this big part of a program", then we should probably just redirect them to sources of information. If they actually have some amount of code, there is a bug and they can't figure it out, then we should probably just role with it and see if we can see a flaw to point out to them. Honestly, even if it is someone's homework, so long as they aren't trying to get someone to write the code and just tweak bugs in it or give suggestions instead, it should play out okay.