Multiboot Not Working (or even appearing as an option)

[gjcovo]

I recently upgraded my motherboard to Asus Z97-Pro WiFi with both UEFI and BIOS, UEFI being something I’d never come across before and that in itself has resulted in numerous rookie mistakes/oversights. However, whilst I think I’ve finally done things as they need to be, I cannot get multiboot to work or even appear.

After days of trying various things thinking I’d get there eventually, I’m putting my hand up to admit defeat.

My previous motherboard was a BIOS only system, so my two existing hard drives were automatically MBR type. The new SSD I bought with the motherboard seemed to also be formatted MBR out of the box (not sure now as that was weeks ago). Multiboot was working fine with all 3 as MBR disks on the new motherboard.

I then read that to take advantage of UEFI they should be GPT, so I converted them all and that was the start of my problems. I’ve taken many detours and sidetracks along the way but in doing so have also resurrected some of my old command line skills along the way using diskpart and bcdedit etc.. (I’ve been dabbling in the heart of PCs for 30 years inc. ALC, disk editing etc. and was a professional programmer for almost 20 years, so perversely have enjoyed the coming back up to speed but frustration is winning now.)

Current situation: I started again yesterday by wiping all partitions from my 1Tb hard drive using Partition Master 10.8 Pro, then reinstalled Win10 from an *.iso DVD I’d previously created. I made sure I booted from a UEFI device (one of my previous rookie errors) and Windows made the 4 partitions expected for UEFI and installed itself correctly. I then installed my required “base” programs to end up with a good working base for Win10. It’s fine as a standalone UEFI device.

Next I cloned it to my 1Tb SSD and it too now works fine as a standalone UEFI device. I suspect however that I’ll never get dual/multi boot working correctly as-is with those two as the GUIDs will be identical given the cloning, so that’s the first thing I want to check.

Do I have to recreate one of those GUIDsto at least get a step closer to successful dual/multi booting? The 3rd drive I’d also like to be able to very occasionally boot from too if possible.

What seems to happen now is no matter which of the 3 drives is connected at boot up the system either automatically defaults to the last one successfully booted into if it’s still connected, but to be honest I’ve been through so many scenarios now I can't really remember now, but am happy to check if that will help.

If I’m going about this all wrong or there is a program out there which will fix it all for me please let me know!

Thanks,
Gary

 

[Darkbreeze]

First, drives are not formatted out of the box. They come raw. So if the drive was formatted as MBR, it happened during an installation or was done with a partition tool.

This generally happens if you install an older OS and/or don't have AHCI enabled as well as UEFI mode/OS type in the BIOS.

What exactly are you trying to dual boot, as I see no mention of any OS aside from Windows 10?

Not sure where you're getting the four partitions from either, as any single drive with Windows, any version, should only have one, or at most two, partitions created as a result of installation. All systems I've configured end up with a single partition or a system partition and a system reserved partition, aside from if you also over provision an SSD after installation or using the manufacturer utility. Over provisioning is done for the following reason, and if applicable, is recommended.

Over-Provisioning (OP), the practice of allocating a specific, permanent amount of free space on an SSD, is a widely-used method for improving both SSD Performance and Endurance. Historically, Samsung has not implemented mandatory OP on any of its SSDs.


OP has a direct effect on SSD performance under sustained workloads and as the drive is filled with data. Guaranteeing free space to accomplish the NAND management tasks discussed above (Garbage Collection, Wear-Leveling, Bad Block Management) means the SSD does not have to waste time preparing space on demand, a process that requires additional time as data is copied, erased, and recopied. An added benefit is that OP makes all of the SSD maintenance procedures more efficient, reducing the WAF by ensuring there’s room to work. Consider this scenario:

You are a chef with very limited counter space (say one arm’s length across and half and arm’s length deep). Preparing a 5-course meal in such a limited area would mean you have to waste a lot of time moving things around or putting them away to make room for other tasks. Now, imagine you quadruple your work space. You can leave everything you need at hand, reduce repeating steps (like getting the salt from the pantry and putting it back away), and increase your working speed.

The same goes for SSDs. Give them more room to work, and they can do it more quickly and efficiently, reducing WAF and increasing performance at the same time.

This is the recommended method for doing a clean install and should be followed exactly, including deleting all existing partitions when you get to the screen where it asks "where do you want to install windows", and then installing to the UNALLOCATED and unpartitioned space. Windows will create the necessary partition(s) and perform any necessary formatting. Make sure AHCI and UEFI are both enabled in the bios.

http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/1950-windows-10-clean-install.html


And this is the only recommended method for creating a dual boot system that I'm aware of. Always install the older operating system first, so for example, install 8 and then install 10, or Windows first when dual booting a Linux distribution.

http://www.howtogeek.com/197647/how-to-dual-boot-windows-10-with-windows-7-or-8/

 

[gjcovo]

After I'd gone to bed last night and thinking about what I'd posted it suddenly occurred to me where I'd taken a wrong turn at Albuquerque (for those old enough to know the reference ). Basically early on I'd misinterpreted something in a post I'd read and then I'd got so bogged down in the minutiae of what I was trying to do that I didn't stick my head up to see where I was going - basically a major case of couldn't see the forest for the trees!! Doh!!

Tonight I reinstalled Win10 on my SSD, got it all working then discovered EasyBCD had lots of extraneous entries so deleted them and just left the ones which appeared in the menu on start up. Mistake - just got black screens with no disk activity at the 2 Win10 boot options and a .exe error with repair message on Windows bootloader (if anything I expected an .efi error).

Went through the reinstall Win10 process again and left the extra entries there (they don't actually appear anyway - just my OCD wanted them gone for neatness - more doh!!). I was intending to use my 2TB hard drive which has Win7 as a third boot option but that's overkill so I'll convert the Win7 partition to a data repository, as is the rest of it.

Well, all in all I feel I've gone from Melbourne to Sydney via New York, making lots of wrong turns but eventually I seem to have got there. Have learned a lot about what not to do!! At 4am here now I'm going to bed but if anybody wants more details of my stupidity I can provide them later.

PS thanks for your input darkbreeze but I have to disagree with your statement that "drives are not formatted out of the box". I'm sure most/all of the hard drives I've used over the years have been, but wasn't sure whether the SSD would be and was surprised to find (from memory!) that it was. I then did a bit of Googling and found for example this about a Transcend (mine is Transcend) SSD on http://www.cnet.com/au/products/transcend-esd200/ Out of the box, it's formatted using the FAT32 file system and therefore works with both Windows and Mac immediately, for both writing and reading.

 

[Darkbreeze]

No drive EVER comes formatted or partitioned. They come blank and RAW, without partitions installed. Just because you have been able to install an OS onto a drive without formatting or partitioning does not mean it came preformatted or with a partition installed. Windows performs the partitioning and formatting automatically.

In 30 years or more of working with computers, 20 of them in some kind of professional or work related capacity, I have never once seen a new drive come with a partition already installed. If there was, I'd return it immediately.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/280494-32-people-format-harddrives

http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/how-to-format-a-new-internal-hard-drive/


The only exception to this would be external drives that come installed in their own enclosures. The drive you linked to is also an external drive. External drives have to come preformatted in most cases, because the OEM installs their own proprietary management software on there and could not do so without it having been formatted and partitioned first.

 

[gjcovo]

You obviously didn't read or believe the last sentence of my previous post?

Anyway, you're entitled to your opinion same as I am, so we'll just agree to disagree. I've cast my mind back to when I first installed the Transcend SSD and all I did was plug it in and use Explorer to check. It showed as already formatted.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Ok, sure. Good luck. Not only do SSDs not come preformatted, in many cases they also need to be initialized before they can be partitioned or formatted. Perhaps yours was the one exception to the rule.