IT Pro: Seagate 8TB Enterprise Capacity 3.5 HDD v5 Review (Archive)

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vaughn2k

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I think it's a tie on the review.. I do not see a big disadvantage over the other in real world situation. Now we should talk about reliability...
 

tripleX

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CbmeHM4UUAAeO-1.jpg:large

The latest Backblaze reports show that Seagate is actually one of the most reliable manufacturers for modern HDDs, MUCH better than WD.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CbmeHM4UUAAeO-1.jpg:large
 

GoatGuy

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SEEMS like a good deal, actually. $240 for 8,000 GB. Write-caching ought to speed it up a lot, since the sectors are so tightly packed in.

For nearly 20 years, I've been writing a few times a year to Seagate, Hitachi and others a request for mechanical spinning hard drives with heads that have more than 1 stripe-per-surface of read (and yes, write) capacity.

I mean to say: we're in the ultra-super-ridiculously-amazing integrated circuit era now. How much work would it be to come up with a 10 square millimeter chip that can simultaneously read 8 heads, with 16 tracks-of-read/write per surface? The idea is, that once the head is positioned over A TRACK, the adjacent 16 tracks are just as stably 'under the head' as they'd ever be. Being able to read all 16 (or perhaps all 128) tracks at the same time, at 120 rps, at LEAST 280 megabytes per second is streaming under each head's reader. Wouldn't it be remarkably more useful if one could get 8 or 16 times that read rate off of ''near line media''?

2.2 GB/s (not bits, but bytes) for 8 simultaneous tracks. 4.5 for 16 tracks.

The point is ... that modern computers are really hobbled by getting a LOT of stuff into and out of memory. Busses have barely risen to the occasion, but hey ... I should think we could EXPECT to have nearline hard drive performance be on the order of what the computer busses can provide, in any case. WITHOUT having to rely on the multiplicative effect of RAID arrays. Not that they're bad, mind you ... but having multi-gigabyte in a single enclosure would be radical. Not for smart-phone users per se, but for those of us who actually toss around an increasingly large amount of 'near line' data.

GoatGuy
 

PaulyAlcorn

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For nearly 20 years, I've been writing a few times a year to Seagate, Hitachi and others a request for mechanical spinning hard drives with heads that have more than 1 stripe-per-surface of read (and yes, write) capacity.

I mean to say: we're in the ultra-super-ridiculously-amazing integrated circuit era now. How much work would it be to come up with a 10 square millimeter chip that can simultaneously read 8 heads, with 16 tracks-of-read/write per surface? The idea is, that once the head is positioned over A TRACK, the adjacent 16 tracks are just as stably 'under the head' as they'd ever be. Being able to read all 16 (or perhaps all 128) tracks at the same time, at 120 rps, at LEAST 280 megabytes per second is streaming under each head's reader. Wouldn't it be remarkably more useful if one could get 8 or 16 times that read rate off of ''near line media''?
...

I have often pondered the same type of technology, but it largely boils down to the vagaries of internal air patterns, fly height and vibration. The fly height of a head over the platter is amazingly small, and the head moves due to vibration and flutter, thus requiring hundreds of real time adjustments per second. The actual tracks themselves are not perfect concentric circles, they are often more of an oval(ish) shape and vary from platter to platter. In essence, the platters are not the same, and thus the track positions vary. The heads are lined up all at once; the voice coil actually moves the entire head assembly with all 12 heads (or however many are on the HDD) simultaneously. The read head would line up with the track, and move as it reads that single track, on one platter, but this would cause misalignment with the other tracks on the other platters.
In order for the system to work there would have to be independent movement of each individual head/arm. This would be much more complex and require a voice coil actuator for each assembly, which would add a tremendous amount of complexity. I suspect the real hindrance is the cost. I believe it is possible with today's technology to realize that goal, but doing it in a cost effective manner is what is beyond reach (imo).
 

GoatGuy

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Actually... I think you are ever-so-slightly mistaken on a number of fronts. Please allow me to show you where:

[1] head fly-height, small, etc.: there are NO externally applied 'adjustments' to the head-fly-height, and haven't been since the very first flying-head hard drives were invented. Its all about the aerodynamic stability of applying a significant but fixed force (from the springiness of the head mounting arms) to the heads that have a small polished air-berm carved in the front, which builds up and drags a pad of air under the head, allowing it to 'float'. While vibration and even position-relative-to-the-edge-of-the-disk make a difference in fly-height, these are all counterbalanced within 10% height flutter by the action of the air berm.

[2] The actual tracks may not be concentric circles, but slight ellipses, as you say. Though the platters are not the same, remember that the tracks are only 100 nm wide, and 130 nm center-to-center distant for an 8,000 GB drive. While the head CAN be modulated a few dozen nanometers side to side at the rotational rate (120 rps), when tracks are written, this kind of slewing is suppressed (otherwise tracks would overwrite tracks.) But yes: the track-over-track alignment can definitely vary even on fairly short time-scales.

[3] regarding whether the read head(s) of multiple PLATTERS line up is not material to my proposal: on a particular side of a platter, the tracks are QUITE WELL aligned with each other. If nominally (and in fact, by design) the tracks are 130 nanometers apart, then a series of read-write impressers/sensors along the trailing edge, each separated by N * 130 nm would do the trick. The tracks don't even need to be exactly adjacent. Since 'reading or writing" any particular track would always synch on the ''modulo 8 or 16'' base track, all the tracks would remain in alignment. Carefully choosing a magnetic head substrate material with the same thermal expansion coefficient as the disks would be important. So that even if the platters expand under thermal loading (they often run above 100 C!), the track-spacing scaling would be matched by sensor-head expansion.

[4] Again... this idea does not require separate actuators. It simply requires re-engineering the read/write heads to have multiple track sensors in a row at the back of the head assembly, and an onboard chip to take care of simultaneously reading and/or writing the data. Modern integration ought to make this now quite possible, and even possibly at very low incremental cost.

Given that hard disk manufacturers are loathe to sell $59.95 disks (they basically make near-nothing from such sales), and only make decent money from the top-end of their offering(s), it would seem like a juicy cherry indeed ... that would very likely have a BUNCH of corporate buyers, were the starkly increased data throughput speeds turn out to be sustainable, and data integrity not compromised in any way.

GoatGuy
 

breynded

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^ Actually, fly-height is controlled thermally via a heater element that protrudes the readr/writer structures through localized heating. This is done several times during the HDD's lifetime to ensure that the heads are flying at the correct distance from the head. An algorithm in the HDDs firmware decides when this is done. As for the muti-reader/ multi-writer (MIMO), this is difficult to implement from the wafer frontend up to the wafer backend stages where the final writer widths and reader stripe heights are defined via mechanical polishing of the heads. It is a good idea though, and there are some published researches dealing with this (TDMR).

--breynded
 

fraterormus

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Seagate commodity Consumer drives are the not the same as Seagate Enterprise drives. It would seem that every time the brand "Seagate" comes up people have to be reminded of this.

What you use in your desktop computer (and what Backblaze uses) are commodity Consumer drives. They are inexpensive, made in China, and have a real-world failure rate that (at times) exceeded the market average. Whereas Seagate Enterprise drives are the opposite of that; they are expensive, made in the U.S. under very tight QA, and have such a low failure rate that it is rare and almost unheard of (for example: I have Seagate Enterprise drives still in active-duty on a 24/7/365 usage cycle that are 14 years old and still running strong and have never had one fail before they were decommissioned...knock on wood).

In our datacenters Seagate Enterprise SAS HDDs are what we rely on in almost every low IOPS GP Server and SANs that still uses HDDs (we still have a few high IOPS Servers and SANs using Seagate 10K & 15K SAS HDDs but most have been replaced with SSDs). We currently are using 2-3TB models for Cold Storage and low IOPS GP Servers and and are getting ready to replace many of them, and this 8TB is our most likely candidate.
 

deltasas11

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Feb 23, 2016
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k im not reading all that.
 

fraterormus

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;tldr

Seagate commodity Consumer drives ≠ Seagate Enterprise-class drives

Is that better?

 

deltasas11

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ah ok thx i see now. btw how did u do that non equal sign?
 

gmarsack

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Buying a Seagate drive is the most reliable way to safely delete all of your data.
I agree. Seagate drives have some of the highest failure rates in the industry. Not sure why anyone would be interested in owning such a large drive without having a backup plan (maybe buy 2 or 3 of them)?
 
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