4k tv's that are known for judder - do they judder when hooked up to PC playing games/watching youtube?

[rustigsmed]

Hi all,

I've been investigating (further) using a 4k tv for my living room PC.

the information is hard to come by especially when you start getting into the detail. i'm looking at something 4k 60hz and 4:4:4 and with an alright lag time (as far as TV's go).

Samsung appear to have the best input lag then Sony then LG is a fair way behind (I cannot get Vizio in Australia). However something I know next to nothing about is Judder.

Lets say for example that i was after the Samsung 7 series 4k TV, according to this review
http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/ju7100

Judder-free 24p Show Help : Yes
Judder-free 24p via 60p Show Help : No
Judder-free 24p via 60i Show Help : No
Motion Interpolation (30 fps): Show Help Yes
Motion Interpolation (60 fps): Show Help Yes
Movies don't have any judder when you are watching via a Blu-ray player at 24p. Via 60p or 60i though (like when playing on a PC computer), it can't reliably do the reverse 3:2 pulldown. You can turn on 'Auto Motion Plus' to fix it, but at the cost of the soap opera effect.


there is judder when not watching something in 24p - does this mean if i am watching say
something on youtube at 60fps there will be judder or motion interpolation? or playing a game at 60fps (into the future with hopefully the next gen gpus) this is an unknown for me. The near equivalent Sony tv's are are "yes" to all the judder free tests undertaken - but have a slower input lag (but not that far behind Samsung) - and apparently can run at 120hz in FHD.

So will going the Samsung ruin gaming or watching youtube or other videos through the PC? I can pretty much get a 60" samsung that is able to do 4k 60hz 4:4:4 for the same price as Sony 55" (850c) 4k 60hz 4:4:4 and passes the judder tests and can do 120hz at 1080p.

Cheers

 

[Suzuki@1473780084@1473780163]

the judder only applies to content where the frame timings/fps doesn't change overtime, so not games.

"Movies don't have any judder" means that the tv is a native 120 Hz. youtube at 60 fps in the description you posted it specifically says you need to turn on interpolation if you dont want any judder, so im guessing the answer is no. judder free without any processing appears to be 24p content only. 24p mode and without is literally night and day though. if youre going to watch a lot of 24p content, this should be priority.

even if the tv is 120 hz, when you play games, then the smoothness is up to the game developers optimising the game, your graphics drivers, and of course your hardware.

is there something i missed?

 

[rustigsmed]

Hi Suzuki,

I guess its the line between judder and soap opera... if i'm using in PC or game mode i imagine i wouldn't want auto - motion plus on or change everytime i was watching a youtube clip.

the Sony 850c has these ratings

Judder-free 24p Show Help : Yes
Judder-free 24p via 60p Show Help : Yes
Judder-free 24p via 60i Show Help : Yes
Motion Interpolation (30 fps): Show Help Yes
Motion Interpolation (60 fps): Show Help Yes
For the reverse 3:2 pulldown, set Motionflow to TrueCinema. It won't add the soap opera effect.

which sounds like is more of what i'm after ... (no judder less soap opera) and i wouldn't need to change the mode of the tv all the time? It just means i'd lose 5" off the screen size. ehhh the trade offs...

 

[rustigsmed]

forgot the link http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x850c

 

[Suzuki@1473780084@1473780163]

correct, no processing while gaming, youd ruin your experience quicklyl. and yes, theres a huge difference between processing (interpolation) and frame doubling. true 24p mode, which that tvs got, is going to make a huge difference. for games, none at all, the refresh rate wont change though, even if you feed it a 60 hz signal, which is where a tv is different from a monitor. youll get the added benefit of lower motion blur, but thats it. the sony and the samsung linked are both 120 hz native. rtings is a very trusted website, if they say it does true 24p, then we all trust them, no questions asked.

interpolation = a setting that can be turned on and off. it analyzes and creates a frame or several frames, inbetween existing ones. if you watch a lot of sports, then this mode is preferred, as even the puck during a hockey game, will appear sharp while moving.

frame doubling = no setting, 24p (~24 fps). 24*5 = 120, as long as the playback device supports 24p mode, if it doesnt, then 24p mode wont work.

further clarify: true 24p mode = what it looks like at the cinema. its not stuttering, and its not soap opera.

 

[rustigsmed]

so what you are saying is that for games they will be pretty much perform the same (although Samsung has better input lag)?
if i use the samsung and watch movies depending on the source i may get judder from time to time if i dont put the interpolation mode on.

 

[Suzuki@1473780084@1473780163]

yes, the key difference is the input lag. 120 hz doesnt change, but some tvs overshoot but lets not get into that, it doesnt make a difference in real world, just testing. thats right, but watching movies on a 60 hz is pretty bad. i personally cant go back, i can instantly tell before a movie even starts (intro). i turned off 24p mode (projector + xbox one), and it feels awful, if i turn it on, im at the cinema....

interpolation is something that a lot of people hate, and often spread misinformation, but its believe it or not, extremely useful.

the reason 24p mode doesnt work on a youtube video, etc, is because they dont allow you to change the playback mode. a dedicated blu-ray player allows you to set the playback mode to 24p mode, and in my case, my xbox one is my primary playback device for blu-rays.

if anything is confusing, then let me know and ill try my best to explain!

 

[rustigsmed]

i think you've covered me for now thanks again for your help Suzuki!

yes i know what you mean - i have tried a video program on my PC that converts 24fps to 59.94 or something.

a lot of videos are now in 1080 60fps it could be annyoing if judder is constant. but then again it is only youtube. everything else is probably fine.

cheers