Win 8.1 OEM license vs same license upgraded to Win 10 on 1 Dual-Boot PC (with 2 UEFI separated OS SSDs)

Spiritos

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After a lot of troubleshooting I'm looking for another workaround but here's the deal:

I purchased a Dual-Boot PC with 2 seperate SSD's each one carrying and licensed with the SAME Win 8.1 OEM CD (which I still have physically).

Now using the same OEM license was the idea of the builder and he did mention it took him some effort to make the same 8.1 license work on both OS-es (which again are completely seperated through UEFI and run on 2 different SSD's.

In the last 1,5 years -up to today - both OS-es updated just fine, were recognized as legit (NO KMspice etc.) and by now I've upgraded 1 OS to Win 10 Home 64x.

Thing is the Win 10 Home has issues which I can't seem to resolve so I probably need to do a fresh install and have 2 questions about this:

1) As I understand now the retailer sort of 'tricked' me in the sense that 1 OEM license strictly speaking is not allowed on 2 "systems" -although we're still talking about 1 PC here (plus I was glad at that time with thim saving me a few bucks). Now I know Win 8.1 license is tied to the mobo -which ofcourse is the same for both OS-es- but since I upgraded one OS to Win10 I am honestly lost about the possible consequenses doing a fresh install on the OS would have.

Am I in danger the fresh installed or the other OS won't be recognized and licensed?

2) Second question is essentialy the same but involes the proces of reinstalling:

As mentioned I need to re-install the Win 10 Home OS. As I have no pshysical copy of that, would it mean I'd have to install Win 8.1. first using the original OEM disk or could I donwload a Win 10 ISO which would recognize the license from the mobo?

3) Actually a third overall question:

The builder of my PC did mention he had to jump through some hoops in order to get the same OEM license working on both OS-es. I don't know which (at that time I didn't even fully realize it was technically speaking a breach of the EULA) but in correlation/ or supplemental to the above questions would I have to watch out for some UEFI settings like FAST & SECURE BOOT?

 
Solution
Both versions should continue working until Microsoft terminates either one of the activations for your hardware signature. At some point in the future, you can expect Microsoft to revoke Windows 7/8/8.1 activations for keys and hardware signatures associated with recently active Windows 10 installs. At that point, you would likely be able to install Windows 10 on your other SSD and continue dual-booting between the two different installs on the same PC.

The Windows license allows you to use one copy of Windows on one PC and by multi-booting on the same PC, you can only use one copy at a time so I doubt Microsoft would bother interfering with that. It is no worse than disk-imaging a SSD/HDD and restoring images with a single drive...

InvalidError

Titan
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Once you upgrade to Windows 10, you have 30 days to downgrade to 8.1 and once that opt-out window expires, one of the two OS may de-authenticate.

Yes, the Windows 10 ISO which you can get directly from Microsoft (search for "Windows [version] Download Tool" is universal - it covers everything from Home OEM to Professional Retail. If your computer has already been associated with a legit activation for Windows 10, the install process will re-activate by looking up your hardware signature on Microsoft's servers.
 

Spiritos

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Thanks for taking the time to reply!

The Win10 Upgrade on one OS has been done some months ago and both OS-es kept functioning (and were updatable) ever since, nor is my current problem related to license issues.

As for a better understanding of the second part of your post: As I understand it the license is tied to your hardware (more specifically and exclusively to the mobo) which in my case is obviously the same (2 OS-es on 2 different boot SSD's). Does this mean that (regardless of the possible dubious -and from my limited conceptual understanding- nature of my specific dual-boot configuration) that re-installing using the Win 10 ISO on the problematic Win 10 OS/SSD will legitimately authenticate based on the non-changed hardware/mobo of my PC? AKA Since the hardware for both OS-es is identical -aside from the 2 seperate boot SSD's- the hardware signature will match as it won't take in account the hardware signature of the SSDs?
 

InvalidError

Titan
Moderator
Both versions should continue working until Microsoft terminates either one of the activations for your hardware signature. At some point in the future, you can expect Microsoft to revoke Windows 7/8/8.1 activations for keys and hardware signatures associated with recently active Windows 10 installs. At that point, you would likely be able to install Windows 10 on your other SSD and continue dual-booting between the two different installs on the same PC.

The Windows license allows you to use one copy of Windows on one PC and by multi-booting on the same PC, you can only use one copy at a time so I doubt Microsoft would bother interfering with that. It is no worse than disk-imaging a SSD/HDD and restoring images with a single drive, apart from skipping the tedious task of doing all those images and restores just to switch between two copies of the same OS on the same PC.
 
Solution

Spiritos

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That was very helpful information, thanks again!

However I would like to ask you for some last ast additional info (as I am paranoid about messing up my DAW OS -which would take me weeks to recover with all MIDI-equipment, iLok/VST-licenses and what not.

In most cases the DAW OS (like any DAW environment) is not connected to the internet. Alas sometimes for validation of the sorts it needs to be and from what you explain that's when a problem could arise. Would simply de-activing MS Updates bypass such a scenario? Thing is tweaking a DAW OS can be tedious and my last update from Win 8.1 to 10 did go anything but smooth and likewise I 'd prefer not to risk that for thw DAW OS (This is the reason most professional studios still use Win 7 or even XP -simply because of the mess any faulty update or compatibiltiy could cause).

And lastly, can you provide some more info or a link with thorough info about the MS hardware signature check? Is it ONLY the mobo or are more components involved? This is for my understanding in regards to your logical sounding argument MS would at a certain point "see" the same mobo sometimes uses Win 8.1 and other times Win10.

If you would be so kind to answer these last lose ends for me I'd be ever so grateful.
 

InvalidError

Titan
Moderator
As long as it is the same motherboard, the worst thing that should happen is having to call in for an over-the-phone re-activation. But once the "trial period" for Windows 10 is over, your license may get stuck Windows 10 only. If you do not want that to happen, scrap Windows 10, forget about the free upgrade, disable the free upgrade on your Windows 8.1 install and hope that your license gets locked to 8.1. If it doesn't and you need to re-activate it, at least stopping using Windows 10 before the free upgrade ends will give some credibility to your claim that you don't want Windows 10 and need 8.1 back.

Activation check and Windows updates are two separate entities in the OS, with the activation checks being a prerequisite to updates and some downloads from Microsoft's sites.
 

Spiritos

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Thanks so much (once again ;)) for explaining and providing some plausible deniability.

I'm afraid though the rollback (fresh install from disk) to Win 8.1 on my "mainstream" OS is no longer a valid option since the grace period of one month is long past due.

Only solution in the context of your scenario is upgrading the DAW OS to Win 10 -which for me is a big no-go as one of my essential Audio devices is known to no longer work under Win 10 and development for that particular device has stopped as the product is even withdrawn from the market.

Damn.. I know I'm working against the clock here either way (28 juli being the last day for a Win10 upgrade) but I see no alternative but to follow your initial advice and download a Win 10 ISO, do a clean install on the "mainstream" OS and try to find a workaround for the remaining 8.1 OS (I might just decide never to connect to the Internet ever again). Or maybe I can try just once to install Win 8.1 from the original OEM disk to see if a fresh install somehow still validates my license -regardless of the fact I've been using Win 10 for some months now- without having to upgrade to Win 10).


 

InvalidError

Titan
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You can always try your luck with re-installing 8.1 on your formerly 10 SSD and see if your activation still works on 8.1 before committing to upgrading your DAW to 10. Or try your luck dual-booting 8.1 and 10 until either one loses activation and worry about migration at that point.

Never connecting to the internet again may not be an option since Windows periodically phones home to check the activation key's validity and will de-activate when the last check's grace period expires.
 

Spiritos

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Upgrading my DAW OS to Win 10 is ( unfortunately given this situation) not an option so I indeed have to look for other options.

Although you clearly are knowledgeable and seem to know what you are talking about I do have my doubts about the "phone home" option though. My estimation is the vast majority of (semi)professional musicstudios use standalones and most pre-build systems sold by the industry's DAW builders don't even have a network adaptor (unlike mine which I just have disabled most of the time). By now you see some companies sell Win 8.1 configurations (although Win 7 is still widely available) but Win 10 is still a niche market and usually only for custombuilds as specifc tweaking i.c.m. components, drivers and backward compatibility isn't tested to he fullest extent yet (I for one use Cakewalk Sonar X3 and their support can't even help me with troubleshooting since they have no Win 8.1 configured system).

I can't imagine those studio's would be forced to connect to the internet solely for validation. If this is truly a new Win 10 necessity I see MS losing a complete industry which would then reside to Mac only using Pro Logic (or by now cross-platfrom Avid Pro Tools).
 

InvalidError

Titan
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If your computers use an OEM Windows license embedded on the motherboard, then that license's signature would be what Windows uses for activation.

For KMS type licenses, the check interval is 180 days, not sure for retail and loose OEM licenses - the ones that you activate by manually entering a 25 characters license key.
 

Spiritos

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I tried googling for more information about the interval regarding OEM licenses (yes, indeed the OEM CD I was given along with my system has a sticker with 25 charachter license key on it) but it seems MS purposely is non-informative (quite understandably) about the exact process of dialing in.

However I did try some other angles and for one going to prompt (Win10 OS) and entering slmgr /xpr (which should tell me when my activation will expire) resulted in a window saying my license is validated indefinitely. Now ofcourse I could misinterpret this and it could just mean it remains valid indefinitely as long as periodical "phone home" messages will remain active -but as far as for the information I found this doesn't seem to be the case.

I also found a freeware tool ProduKey from Nirsoft which shows your license for the current OS and -in line with the context you provided- it is a different key than the one mentioned on my OEM disk so I wrote it down for any possible future problems.

I realise this feedback is going beyond the scope of my initial question so I'll leave you be and once like to thank you for your time & patience. You certainly helped me get a better contextual understanding of the issues regarding licenses.

For now I'll try to work out a scenario where I can copy my (blocked) user profile to a newly created one -but since I've about exhausted all options and keep running into issues I might just opt for a fresh install -for which I can use your information in case I should run into some more issues.

Regards.

FINAL UPDATE: I did a Windows Restore using the ISO I created with MediaCreationTool and in relation to my question it all worked out as I now have both a functional Win 8.1 and Win 10 OS. The restore did however mess up my diskmanagement but I hope to sort that out soon.

As a last note it might be of interest for future reference I could not use the original Win 8.1 OEM disk to restore or reset my Win 10 OS. It either asked me to place a proper recovery disk or mentioned a problem and I could not continue repair.