Does anyone know anything about those iBUYPOWER, CybertronPC, or CyberPowerPC systems?

[Clunker]

I saw some of these on the Best Buy website. What's the deal with them? Are they just junk or are they pretty good? I saw some discounted ones that looked fairly nice. Is it doomed to fail in three months?

 

[Barty1884]

Not necessarily junk, but they do tend to use junk components though, PSUs & Motherboards (a little less common) specifically.
You also don't get the option to configure them.

Golden rule; If the PSU &/or Motheboard is not listed in the specs (just generic terms like "H170 chipset" or "700W Bronze"), then it's pretty safe to assume it's junk they either paid next to nothing for (a sign of poor quality) or old stock they have sitting around the warehouse (not a good sign either, why haven't they used them?).

Their customer service is pretty poor too - just look up some reviews. Not the ones after having the system for a day or two, the ones 6+months later.

I actually just responded to a thread here earlier today where the actual specs were known. Buying the Cyberpower PC and replacing the PSU would be cheaper than building it yourself, for pretty decent specs.

 

[Clunker]

Not necessarily junk, but they do tend to use junk components though, PSUs & Motherboards (a little less common) specifically.
You also don't get the option to configure them.

Golden rule; If the PSU &/or Motheboard is not listed in the specs (just generic terms like "H170 chipset" or "700W Bronze"), then it's pretty safe to assume it's junk they either paid next to nothing for (a sign of poor quality) or old stock they have sitting around the warehouse (not a good sign either, why haven't they used them?).

Their customer service is pretty poor too - just look up some reviews. Not the ones after having the system for a day or two, the ones 6+months later.

I actually just responded to a thread here earlier today where the actual specs were known. Buying the Cyberpower PC and replacing the PSU would be cheaper than building it yourself, for pretty decent specs.

Really? Where was that? Sounds like something I might like to do.

 

[Barty1884]

http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-3159015/decent-deal.html

There was a teardown of the rig the reviewer received. YMMV of course but, assuming that's what they use in those specific builds - you'd be fine with a PSU upgrade.

Whether I'd recommend the individual components specifically, I doubt it (like the 6402P), but it's a solid enough rig, including an RX480 for a little under retail cost, so not a bad idea. The PSU is junk though.

 

[Clunker]

I took a look at the thread. I may end up getting that system and replacing the PSU. I posted some questions in that topic.

 

[Barty1884]

Yeah, I posted in there. Decide which thread you want to keep discussion in (I'd vote this one). and go from there.

What I posted in the other thread:

You'd want a quality 500W+ PSU. Which one specifically, depends entirely on the budget and whether you're ok with rebates or not.

The cheapest (price, not quality) PSU I can find today (Aug 19, 2016) is the SeaSonic S12II 520W Bronze:
http://pcpartpicker.com/product/fZyFf7/seasonic-power-s...

Although for $4 more you can have the 620W version:http://pcpartpicker.com/product/nB3RsY/seasonic-power-s...

With rebates, the Cooler Master V600 (Gold, fully modular) is appealing at $78
http://pcpartpicker.com/product/3t8H99/cooler-master-po...

And the SuperNOVA B2 750W (bronze, semi-modular) gets you good quality, and overkill extra power at $75
http://pcpartpicker.com/product/JYyFf7/evga-power-suppl...

The EVGA SuperNOVA G2 550W is always a solid, quality, modular option at $80
http://pcpartpicker.com/product/qYTrxr/evga-power-suppl...

Your budget needs to be at least $60 for a quality PSU. Ideally more like $80.

 

[Clunker]

I'm going to keep discussion about that specific system in that thread. But if anyone here has any general experience with any of these companies then feel free to post it here.

 

[Amashi]

I've had a Cyberpower system for almost 4 years, and at the office (an animation studio) we mainly use systems from them as workstations, and we've been running a number for years without ever having one catastrophically fail. This includes some systems that have been lugged around from home to office daily, lugged around the NYC subway system for demos, etc.

I'd actually say that CyberPower can be a pretty great deal for a pre-built system, but there are some caveats to that.

First, you need to actually buy and configure on their site. The systems from Best Buy, Amazon, etc. are much more expensive than the systems you can get from their site, can't be configured, and are likely to have some dodgy components. Now they do take a couple of weeks to build and ship (used to be more like a month,) so if you need a system now they might not be the best choice.

Second, you really want to catch good sales, and in particular sales where they're pushing something that you actually want. A lot of their sales are of the "free upgrade" kind. If you want the particular free upgrades they're offering that can be a great deal. If you don't care, it's not so great. And they often throw in some low-mid range peripherals for free. Whether or not you want/need them will affect how good the deal is.

Third, I mentioned that you have to configure the system on their site. You have to know what you want in order to do that. If you look at their stock configurations... well, I think they are a bit odd.

The PSU is one place where this is true- they tend to favor big cheap PSUs over good smaller ones. Or sometimes big good ones- one of the things they are pushing right now is a free upgrade to an EVGA SuperNOVA 1050 GS. . I'm not an expert on PSUs, but I feel safe in saying that this PSU is not likely to fry your system . But it's a lot of power supply for a pre-built $1200.00 gaming system that defaults to a single GTX 1060. Anyway, sometimes their default PSU choices are terrible, but they usually have some decent to good ones in the configurators.

There are other areas of weirdness as well, especially when it comes to pricing. I'm in the market for a new system, and have decided to build my own, but I was a bit on the fence about it for a while, and was looking at their current deals. One thing that really struck me is that going from the default 8 Gigs of Ram to 16 was at least $70.00. That is pretty steep for an 8 Gig stick of RAM- for the system I'm building I got 16 Gigs of perfectly fine RAM for about $51.00. But today their Daily Deal is a free upgrade to 16 Gigs.

And when I was looking at their configurator earlier this week the special was on an NVidia partner 1070 (an EVGA FTW maybe?) I already have a GPU I want to use, but removing that card only took $355.00 off the price. If I had wanted that card right now it would have been a better deal than it was without it. But that's generally the nature of configuring pre-built systems.

They also have a bias toward overclockable systems, which means not just slightly more expensive chips, but substantially more expensive motherboards. And toward liquid cooling. If you don't want to overclock and are happy with a stock cooler that again makes CyberPower a less good deal, I think (I haven't looked as hard at the pricing of their locked builds though, so I could be wrong about this, but that's my impression.)

I actually think that as long as you know what you want and configure your system properly CyberPower is a pretty good deal, and can be a great deal if you're willing to wait for the right sale, or just get lucky when you want to order. If it were straight-up a matter of money I would have ordered from them- at any reasonable price for my time it would be a lot cheaper than building. I just happen to want to build a PC, and also want to have total control over what goes into it this time.

 

[Clunker]

Thanks. That's good advice. I just saw another cyberpower horror story on youtube so it's nice to know that atleast one person has had positive experiences with these people. I honestly don't know what I'm going to do. Right now I'm researching the components for the system in the link above.

 

[Amashi]

Thanks. That's good advice. I just saw another cyberpower horror story on youtube so it's nice to know that atleast one person has had positive experiences with these people. I honestly don't know what I'm going to do. Right now I'm researching the components for the system in the link above.

What CyberPower is is a service that puts together a custom PC for you and gets volume discounts on parts. You pay a small premium for them putting the system together, but if you use their site you get to choose the parts (within limits.) If you catch the right sale the premium can be very small. In addition to that they make sure that no parts are DOA, and since they put together PCs all day the cable management in a CyberPower system is likely to be pretty good. They pass the part warranties on to you, btw.

So basically they occupy a middle-ground between pre-built and building. You are pretty much just paying someone to put a system together for you, but getting a discount on labor because they profit a bit on volume discounts on parts. For a pre-built system that's going to be a good deal compared to a Dell or something. And the PSU stuff is pure FUD. Sure, if you buy a CyberPower system with a terrible PSU you might eventually have trouble. When was the last time you bought a Dell with a good PSU? You can just get a better PSU and avoid the issue.

As for the customer service- yeah, you had better be prepared to deal with them if you need customer service. My understanding is that they're basically a company founded by Vietnamese immigrants in LA. They're rougher around the edges than most US companies, and they have very little patience with stupidity or user error, but if you're aggressive in return they'll take responsibility for things that are actually their responsibility. Expect to wait a while for resolution though. Luckily, we've rarely needed to talk to them.

 

[Karadjgne]

Custom builders like Digital Storm, ibuypower, cyberpower etc are perfect for 1 kind of person. That's the person who has a clue about what they want inside a pc, yet lacks the confidence to do it themselves. Is it cheaper to build it yourself? Undoubtedly. Is it better if you build it yourself, definitely. (within limits). But if you can't or won't but still want something decent, they are the ppl to talk to. Directly. No sense in paying extra for a middle man like best buy. As far as warranty goes, their attitudes are somewhat understandable. If parts fail because of their labor, they are responsible. If parts just fail, you are on your own, that's what the part manufacturer warranty is for. And parts do fail. Especially crappy psus. But thats what you chose, they didn't build the psu. So sorry. So you do have to take the build with a grain of salt, no different than if you built it yourself, you'd still be replacing a bunk psu.

So do the research, know what you want, build it out on the website. You pay, they build, you play.
Simple.

 

[Amashi]

As far as warranty goes, their attitudes are somewhat understandable.

I think we mostly agree, but I wanted to point out that this is not just understandable, but actually an advantage. If you buy a Dell or something you get one warranty, likely good for at most 90 days. If you want more you have to buy an extended warranty, and we all know that's a scam.

On the other hand I think the PSU I just bought has a ridiculous warranty, for like ten years. Many parts have at least a three year warranty. And some parts have warranties that cover damage done to other parts if they malfunction. I'd much rather have those warranties, even if it means I have to contact the manufacturers directly. So I think that's a big plus for CyberPower, etc. They pass the part manufacturer's warranty on, and it's generally a lot better than the warranty for a Dell or something.

 

[Karadjgne]

Dells warranty is slightly different. Asus/gigabyte/MSI build their motherboards specifically engineered for Dell. It's proprietary, same as any of their stuff with few exceptions like the cpu itself. So if a psu goes bad, a d it's still under warranty, its a Dell warranty, not Seasonic or Delta or CWT etc. Dell being considered the OEM. In the parts such as ram at ibuypower etc, if you use the 'ibuypower certified compatible' ram, you get a major brand such as corsair, Kingston, g-skill, Patriot etc, according to whatever brand would offer the cheapest bulk price at the time. But if that ram fails, its a Kingston problem, not an ibuypower problem. If it fails due to bad install (broken slot on mb etc) only then is it a ibuypower warranty problem. With Dell, its always their problem as they are the OEM. Possible exception is the cpu.

 

[Clunker]

Keep the advice coming guys. I read every post, start to finish. People keep saying it's cheaper to build yourself but I don't think that's always true. That amazon link above is damn near cost and I saw a youtube video today where a guy went around Best Buy checking part prices and the ibuypower system on the shelf was right at the same cost as building it yourself.

 

[Amashi]

Keep the advice coming guys. I read every post, start to finish. People keep saying it's cheaper to build yourself but I don't think that's always true. That amazon link above is damn near cost and I saw a youtube video today where a guy went around Best Buy checking part prices and the ibuypower system on the shelf was right at the same cost as building it yourself.

I think it depends on how much time you're willing to put in chasing sales on individual parts. As I said above, when CyberPower, for instance, has a really good sale that matches what you want it can be a good deal. Even then there's generally a bit of a premium, but it's often pretty small.

On the other hand parts go on sale a lot, and the discounts are often pretty big, especially if you're willing to deal with rebates (which is admittedly a bit of a pain.) Newegg just had a sale for 16 Gigs of good memory for what amounted to around $51.00 accounting for rebates. If you get all of your parts at prices like that you'll save a fair amount over buying a pre-built system. But you will have had to spend a lot of time watching for sales, and it will take a while for all of the parts to trickle in.

My opinion is that unless you are really strapped for cash and/or have a lot of time, building a system is not worth it if all you want to do is save money. You might save $200.00-$400.00, but you'll spend a lot of time on it. But there are other reasons to build, so if those apply to you the savings is a bonus.

 

[Karadjgne]

I can drop a pc in 30 minutes if pushed, my build took 4 hours as I wanted perfect wiring and routing of the AIO tubes and fan setups, so there was plenty of swapping etc. At a 4 hour build that's more than cheap for a $200-400 savings. As it was, this build cost less than $600 with some smart shopping, value for parts was @$1500. A similar build on Digital Storm was closer to $2800. Getting the parts you actually want vrs the parts you'll settle for since the build is on sale is a whole different beast.

 

[Amashi]

I can drop a pc in 30 minutes if pushed, my build took 4 hours as I wanted perfect wiring and routing of the AIO tubes and fan setups, so there was plenty of swapping etc. At a 4 hour build that's more than cheap for a $200-400 savings. As it was, this build cost less than $600 with some smart shopping, value for parts was @$1500. A similar build on Digital Storm was closer to $2800. Getting the parts you actually want vrs the parts you'll settle for since the build is on sale is a whole different beast.

I meant more the time you'd spend looking for the right sales, dealing with MIRs, etc. I'm also guessing that you have a fair bit of experience working on PCs. For someone doing it for the first time putting things together is probably going to take more than half an hour. I've never put an entire system together from scratch before, though I have swapped a lot of parts in and out. Note also that for someone who really doesn't know much about the inner workings of a PC there's going to be some time doing research just to make sure everything they're buying is compatible.

Also, I don't know much about Digital Storm, and was replying mainly based on my experience with CyberPower. I've recently done some part-by-part price comparisons between their systems and buying individual parts and the difference is nowhere near that dramatic. In fact, if you happen to want the things that they are pushing as deals the difference is fairly small compared to getting parts that aren't on sale. I did save a fair bit by buying parts, but that's partially because I didn't want a GPU right now (I have one already that I'll be using) and taking the GPU out of their system doesn't reduce the price by nearly what you'd pay for that GPU, and partially because I caught a couple of quite good sales.

So, like a lot of things, it's a matter of trade-offs, and which set of trade-offs is better is going to be an individual thing. If you're experienced putting together machines, enjoy doing it, and are willing to sale-shop that argues for building. Your financial situation is also a factor. If you work 80 hours a week and make a lot of money that's one thing. If you're a student or work part time for minimum wage that's entirely another.

For me, if it were purely a matter of money I think I would have bought a system from CyberPower. But not only do I want to control which parts are going into my system, I want to get better at working on PCs. And- well, this might sound a bit silly, but given that I do often spend something like 80 hours a week sitting in front of one I'd like to have a somewhat closer connection to it. I'm guessing that doing this first build is going to be a bit stressful and unpleasant for me in some ways, but that I will feel quite good about it once it's done. That's assuming nothing goes horribly wrong of course . I am not exactly the most dextrous person in the world, and there's an old saying: "Never trust a programmer with a screwdriver."

 

[Karadjgne]

Lol. True. And I have a tendency to think of things a little different to most (wife just read that and bust out laughing). Yes, I am quite experienced at the manual stuff dealing with pc's. Consequently I have knowledge and experience to rely upon so putting a pc together is something I find relatively easy, be it mine or someone elses. However, I do have a certain amount of pride in my workmanship, so even delving into something new, I'm a little overly cautious and want things done smartly. I can't stand sloppy. Now, if you spend your own, hard earned cash on something it'll mean considerably more than something bought. Even if I gotta work 80hrs a week and only have 10 mins a day to work on it. I'd rather do it to the best of my ability than a sloppy rush job. Which means chances are good that I'd be pulling a cyberpower pc apart and redoing it to my satisfaction.

What I find funny is that many first time builders do a damn sight better job than many experienced builders if for no other reason than the caution taken when building, researching etc and the expectant pride in a job well done.

 

[Amashi]

Consequently I have knowledge and experience to rely upon so putting a pc together is something I find relatively easy, be it mine or someone elses. ... Even if I gotta work 80hrs a week and only have 10 mins a day to work on it. I'd rather do it to the best of my ability than a sloppy rush job. Which means chances are good that I'd be pulling a cyberpower pc apart and redoing it to my satisfaction.

Well for you it's clearly a no-brainer to build. You're good at it, you like doing it, and not much is likely to go wrong. If something does go wrong you'll be able to diagnose it and deal with it. I'm starting to build my own machines because I'd like to eventually have the skills you have. And I figure once I get over the initial hurdles I'll enjoy it. I like optimization problems, I like researching things, and deciding what to put in a PC is basically a matter of doing research and solving an optimization problem. Putting the thing together is another matter, and I'm not sure I have a talent for that sort of thing, but I imagine I'll manage.

OTOH, I just read a thread on these forums from someone who bought the wrong generation CPU for his motherboard, somehow managed to seat it (??) and tried to power the system on. I don't know what the consequences of this are going to be, but that might have been a kind of expensive mistake. And, tbh, if you can't even match CPU generation to motherboard I'm pretty certain that you're not going to be able to make reasonable decisions about which CPU and motherboard will make sense together, in the context of a build (let alone PSU considerations, GPU vs monitor/resolution/FPS considerations vs desired game considerations, etc.)

I'm not, btw, making fun of this person. We all have our own strengths and weaknesses. But this person should have just bought a system, IMHO, and that's probably true for most people, though maybe not the majority on these forums. Like you, I am expert at certain things involving computers, and like you I sometimes have to take a step back and recognize that what is simple for me is impossible for some, even for some who work in my field. There's no simple answer to the question "Should I build, or should I buy."

What I find funny is that many first time builders do a damn sight better job than many experienced builders if for no other reason than the caution taken when building, researching etc and the expectant pride in a job well done.

I hope that's true for me. One thing about the system I'm going to be putting together is that for the first time ever I have bought something for purely aesthetic reasons. I spent a bit more than I had to on the case, and got the Anidees Crystal. This machine is going to be in my bedroom, and that case is really good-looking- I might just buy some furniture that matches it. One thing that is noted in pretty much every review of that case is that the cable management area is not deep enough (and is visible, since the case is glass on three sides.) I'm prepared to spend an entire weekend swearing like a sailor to make the cables flat enough to get the back panel on.

 

[Karadjgne]

Haha, I answered on that same topic, know exactly what you mean. Yes, LGA1150 and LGA 1151 are almost totally incompatible. The only thing they physically share is the bolt pattern for the cpu cooler. I'm hoping too it wasn't an expensive mistake, but he does have a chance no damage was done to either the mobo, socket pins or the cpu.

For most ppl, dropping $1000 or better on a top line pc isn't an easy thing to justify, budgets abound, so care has to be taken. My wife's build took a while to put together because I wanted quality parts and had a performance objective beyond simple gaming. This is something that seems to be enigma to many, but to me a pc is more than an overblown console. My build took the better part of 6 months to finish, but shopping on a tight budget meant much shopping on eBay with limits in mind, on parts I wanted specifically. This is one of the only downsides to custom prebuilts, many items aren't available, so if you insist that MSI and Asus suck, you'll be stuck since most of the choices available are MSI or Asus. That's not to mention limited case choices. So if you are willing to settle for what's roughly equitable, cheapest price is the way to go for sure and you can build a decent system for a decent price. But my pc is in my bedroom too, and the Mrs insisted it had to be respectable, so no wild and crazy Gaming X monster PC for me Yes, aesthetics truly do matter, some ppl just will not own a lemon yellow car no matter how nice it drives.

 

[Amashi]

For most ppl, dropping $1000 or better on a top line pc isn't an easy thing to justify,

Sure- different people have different needs. I wouldn't call $1000.00 a high-end system though. That's about what I spent on this system, with no GPU, and I'm already thinking I might have gone too cheap on CPU and motherboard (I did get a good deal on CPU+motherboard+memory though.) Once I get a GPU it will wind up between $1200.00 and $1500.00 for the system as a whole. I'd consider it a mid-range system, with a slightly more expensive case than was absolutely necessary.