"Your PC encountered a problem and needs to restart." - Round 2.

[hbenthow]

A while back, I posted a thread about my computer giving me the bluescreen message "Your PC encountered a problem and needs to restart", and then forcibly restarting. You can read that thread at this link. I was never fully satisfactorily convinced that my problem had been solved, and it is now clear that it wasn't. Today, my computer restarted itself while I was out of the room. When I pulled up the error information with BlueScreenView, it became immediately apparent that the same thing had happened once again. It was almost exactly the same error information all over again.

After the problem happened the first time, I ran a battery of hardware tests (MemTest86, Prime95, Furmark, Western Digital Data Lifeguard, CHKDSK, Scannow, etc), all without incident or error. I find it hard to believe at this point that the problem is purely hardware-related. There was a suggestion in the last thread that I update my BIOS, but I'm afraid to do this, as it runs the risk of messing up my system to the point of making my computer unbootable

Furthermore, I am now completely convinced that the problem is in some way connected to Opera browser. The first time that this problem occurred, the DMP file cited Opera as the process that was running when the problem occurred.

Then, a few days ago, my entire system suddenly froze completely after I went from the page of one Youtube video to the next with - you guessed it - Opera browser (I had to forcibly turn off my computer with the power button after it wouldn't respond for over an hour, then I ran a system image restore afterwards to ensure that there was no lingering damage to my system caused by the freeze and forcible restart).

Today, I had left a Youtube video paused in Opera browser and left the room for about an hour when the forcible restart happened.

I don't believe that this is coincidental. In the space of one month, my computer has given bluescreen errors that resulted in a forcible restart twice, and frozen up completely once. All three times, Opera browser was running on my system. That said, it does not seem normal to me that Opera browser itself should cause such a problem. Thus, there may be some other underlying problem with my system, although I don't believe that it is a hardware flaw.

EDIT: Info from the latest DMP file does not cite Opera as being related to the crash. Opera may have nothing to do with it after all.

I'm at my wit's end. I just bought this computer a few months ago, and I still can't trust it to run reliably without crashing. I don't know how to ascertain the exact problem, and am afraid of trying the wrong corrective measures and creating worse problems.

Here is the information about today's crash from BlueScreenView:
==================================================
Dump File : 030717-28312-01.dmp
Crash Time : 3/7/2017 8:59:17 PM
Bug Check String :
Bug Check Code : 0x00000124
Parameter 1 : 00000000`00000000
Parameter 2 : ffff908a`be9a4038
Parameter 3 : 00000000`b0800000
Parameter 4 : 00000000`00060151
Caused By Driver : hal.dll
Caused By Address : hal.dll+3627f
File Description : Hardware Abstraction Layer DLL
Product Name : Microsoft® Windows® Operating System
Company : Microsoft Corporation
File Version : 10.0.14393.206 (rs1_release.160915-0644)
Processor : x64
Crash Address : ntoskrnl.exe+14a6f0
Stack Address 1 :
Stack Address 2 :
Stack Address 3 :
Computer Name :
Full Path : C:\WINDOWS\Minidump\030717-28312-01.dmp
Processors Count : 2
Major Version : 15
Minor Version : 14393
Dump File Size : 345,860
Dump File Time : 3/7/2017 9:01:12 PM
==================================================

Also, here's a link to a ZIP file that includes the dmp file, msinfo32, and other relevant files related to the error.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lp711kq2qlokjms/DESKTOP-AVBIS4C-Tue_03_07_2017_215410_77.zip?dl=0

 

[DSzymborski]

The most obvious way to confirm or not confirm something is going on with software is is to try a different browser. Have you? What are the results? That would be the absolute first thing to try.

 

[Colif]

Bug Check 0x124: WHEA_UNCORRECTABLE_ERROR
hal.dll - Hardware Abstraction Layer - deals directly with hardware requests.

Windows Hardware Error Architecture (WHEA) errors are normally CPU related errors, can also be fixed by a BIOS update (I see you mentioned it in last thread, did you work out which you need?) and can sometimes be caused by USB or PCI cards

if you haven't installed BIOS, it seems you can only do it from inside Windows:

1. Download the file by clicking the "Download" or "Obtain Software" button and saving the file to a folder on your hard drive (make a note of the folder where the downloaded file is saved).

2. Double-click the downloaded file and follow the on-screen instructions (Windows Only).

found on the page you linked in other thread.

 

[hbenthow]

The most obvious way to confirm or not confirm something is going on with software is is to try a different browser. Have you? What are the results? That would be the absolute first thing to try.

Well, I have used Opera browser extensively almost every day since I got the computer (as it has been my go-to browser for years), and have only run into trouble three times. (I do use other browsers, but not every day, and only for short periods of time per session.) If I were to try switching browsers, it could be weeks or longer until the other browser would trigger the same problem (if it were ever to do so). Do you think that it would be worth waiting that long to find out?

 

[hbenthow]

Bug Check 0x124: WHEA_UNCORRECTABLE_ERROR
hal.dll - Hardware Abstraction Layer - deals directly with hardware requests.

Windows Hardware Error Architecture (WHEA) errors are normally CPU related errors, can also be fixed by a BIOS update (I see you mentioned it in last thread, did you work out which you need?) and can sometimes be caused by USB or PCI cards

if you haven't installed BIOS, it seems you can only do it from inside Windows:

1. Download the file by clicking the "Download" or "Obtain Software" button and saving the file to a folder on your hard drive (make a note of the folder where the downloaded file is saved).

2. Double-click the downloaded file and follow the on-screen instructions (Windows Only).

found on the page you linked in other thread.

I haven't updated my BIOS, because I'm afraid that it could render my computer unbootable. I've tried asking for advice on how to safely install it and whether I should clear the CMOS afterward, but have never gotten answers satisfactory enough to convince me that I can update my BIOS without ruining my computer. At this point, I feel very out of my depth when it comes to updating the BIOS. I'm somewhat open to updating it, especially if it stands a fair chance of fixing my current problem, but I need to know how to do it safely first. This might be a bit overdramatic, but a BIOS update seems to me to be the computer maintenance equivalent of brain surgery: one wrong slip and you're done for.

 

[Colif]

BIOS updates can add support for features not available when PC was 1st released. If you hesitant to do it, I would get someone to fix it for you as it might be some other hardware besides the BIOS to blame. It might be your graphics card since it seems to happen in graphical situations?

I can't find much about updating the bios on your PC besides the instructions I showed above. I would link a video if I could find one.

you shouldn't need to clear CMOS after as flashing BIOS will reset all the settings anyway

Its not going to be Opera as its a hardware error, not software. BIOS is only software that crosses the line as its built onto motherboard so counts as both

 

[hbenthow]

BIOS updates can add support for features not available when PC was 1st released. If you hesitant to do it, I would get someone to fix it for you as it might be some other hardware besides the BIOS to blame. It might be your graphics card since it seems to happen in graphical situations?

I can't find much about updating the bios on your PC besides the instructions I showed above. I would link a video if I could find one.

you shouldn't need to clear CMOS after as flashing BIOS will reset all the settings anyway

Its not going to be Opera as its a hardware error, not software. BIOS is only software that crosses the line as its built onto motherboard so counts as both

I read somewhere that the BIOS should be set to something called the "optimized defaults". Would the reset caused by flashing the BIOS cause the optimized defaults to correctly load, or would I have to somehow set them up manually after the update?

Also, what are the chances of the reset turning my computer unbootable, and what should I do if that happens?

 

[Colif]

i don't know about your PC but last time i updated my BIOS it took me into the bios once it had updated and expected me to set defaults up, so that would be when you set the optimised defaults.

I don't know the odds of the chance of you bricking motherboard when updating it Its always a chance but I don't do it often enough to know how often it happens. Its worries like this that stop me looking if I have an update now. I only suggest BIOS updates if PC isn't working right as they can fix things too. I believe most flashes work fine.

You can wait and see if Paul NZ comes in and reads dumps, WHEA errors don't often give much info in them though. He gave you general advice that can normally fix them. I can't read them myself.

 

[hbenthow]

i don't know about your PC but last time i updated my BIOS it took me into the bios once it had updated and expected me to set defaults up, so that would be when you set the optimised defaults.

How complicated is this procedure? Is it necessary to manually set up everything (boot order, RAM, processor, etc)? How knowledgeable does one have to be to perform this setup?

You can wait and see if Paul NZ comes in and reads dumps, WHEA errors don't often give much info in them though. He gave you general advice that can normally fix them. I can't read them myself.

One thing that Paul NZ mentioned in the other thread was that I should disable AMD Overdrive. However, I can't figure out how to find the AMD Overdrive settings on my computer. I looked in the Catalyst Control Center, but wasn't able to find it. Do you happen to know anything about AMD Overdrive? Or could it be that my computer doesn't even have this option (which is why I can't find the setting)?

 

[Colif]

Did you ask on HP forums about the BIOS update as that is a question for them. I have only done it once in several years so not an expert. I think if you set defaults it does most of that for you. I could have set optimised defaults here but they overclock my CPU and I didn't want that.

AMD Overdrive is a separate program I believe, think you would have needed to download it for it to be on your PC - http://www.amd.com/en-us/innovations/software-technologies/technologies-gaming/over-drive - so if you never did, it can't be it to blame.

 

[hbenthow]

Did you ask on HP forums about the BIOS update as that is a question for them. I have only done it once in several years so not an expert. I think if you set defaults it does most of that for you. I could have set optimised defaults here but they overclock my CPU and I didn't want that.

I definitely don't want anything that could overclock my CPU, and if there is anything currently doing do, I want to put an end to that.

I didn't think about asking at the HP forums before. I think I'll do that. Thank you for that suggestion.

AMD Overdrive is a separate program I believe, think you would have needed to download it for it to be on your PC - http://www.amd.com/en-us/innovations/software-technologies/technologies-gaming/over-drive - so if you never did, it can't be it to blame.

Ah, I see. It's probably not anything that I should worry about then.

 

[Colif]

HP forums would have been first place I would ask about updating BIOS, they should be able to show you step by step instructions.

 

[hbenthow]

HP forums would have been first place I would ask about updating BIOS, they should be able to show you step by step instructions.

I agree. I don't know why I didn't think of it. Again, thank you for the suggestion.

 

[hbenthow]

Does anyone here know much about RAM issues? Here's some information from the DMP file that reveals that my two RAM sticks have different speeds. Is it possible that this is causing my problem?

[Memory Device (Type 17) - Length 34 - Handle 002dh]
Size 4096MB
Speed 667MHz
Manufacturer U
Part Number S

[Memory Device (Type 17) - Length 34 - Handle 0031h]
Size 4096MB
Speed 800MHz
Manufacturer M
Part Number 1

 

[Colif]

Mixing RAM sticks like that is generally not a good idea and can lead to issues, especially if the two sticks have different speeds or timings.

Its probably a good idea to remove one stick and see if you get the errors, as if you only have 2 sticks it generally helps if they both running at same speeds

 

[hbenthow]

Mixing RAM sticks like that is generally not a good idea and can lead to issues, especially if the two sticks have different speeds or timings.

Its probably a good idea to remove one stick and see if you get the errors, as if you only have 2 sticks it generally helps if they both running at same speeds

How would I know if my system becomes stable afterward? I can't see a way to tell whether or not I have a problem until a crash happens. Wouldn't I have to wait weeks to find out whether taking one stick out helped?

Also, do you think it would be feasible to run a computer such as mine on a mere 4 GB of RAM? It's using 75% of my 8 GB of RAM right now, and the only program I have running is Opera (not counting Bitdefender and the portable version of Networx). Would my system get overloaded quickly using such a small amount of RAM?

 

[Colif]

1. That is the thing with BSOD, they don't wave a white flag and say they surrender. The only way you know they fixed is when they don't happen

2. If you already using that much with 8gb I would look into buying a set of 16gb modules - I see two here: http://www.crucial.com/usa/en/compatible-upgrade-for//hp-compaq-pro-6305-small-form-factor as then the sticks do match each other

 

[Colif]

Your ram usage seems high if you only using a few programs. Compared to mine, even if i halve my ram I am only using 44% with a similar workload (chrome instead of opera - they pretty much same thing these days) and Bitdefender installed. Not sure about that other program. Only using 3.2gb of ram at moment.

 

[hbenthow]

1. That is the thing with BSOD, they don't wave a white flag and say they surrender. The only way you know they fixed is when they don't happen

2. If you already using that much with 8gb I would look into buying a set of 16gb modules - I see two here: http://www.crucial.com/usa/en/compatible-upgrade-for//hp-compaq-pro-6305-small-form-factor as then the sticks do match each other[/quotemsg]

Option 2 would be the most satisfactory (as I would both get to test out the effects of matching RAM and upgrade my system at the same time), but it's a bit pricy. I'll have to think that over.

Do you think that removing one stick would be safe, or likely to cause my system to get overloaded?

Do you know for certain whether the particular error I have can be caused by mixed RAM sticks such as the ones I have? I'm not asking whether they are the cause in my particular case (as you can't ascertain that), but rather whether there's any certainty that such BSODs can be caused by RAM with two different speeds.

Your ram usage seems high if you only using a few programs. Compared to mine, even if i halve my ram I am only using 44% with a similar workload (chrome instead of opera - they pretty much same thing these days) and Bitdefender installed. Not sure about that other program. Only using 3.2gb of ram at moment.

It varies. A couple of hours ago (running the same programs), it was at only 53%. Now it's at 74%. I think it went up and stayed up after I played a few Youtube videos.

EDIT: I restarted Opera, and my RAM usage is now at 47%. It might also be worth mentioning that i have a habit of keeping over 50 tabs open.

 

[Colif]

You might want to check the ram you have now with the free version of memtest86. it creates a bootable USB. Test 1 stick at a time and see if they ok, as no point putting a stick back in that is faulty

Windows should adjust to running in less ram, it will mean more disc activitiy but if its only for a few weeks it shouldn't be a problem.

i did look into the question of mismatched ram speeds and that was answer I got. WHEA errors are hardware, they aren't very specific about what but in most cases the CPU is the cause so we look there first.

You may be able to get ram for less, I just found 1 site. There might be a list of compatible memory on the HP site for PC so you have more choice.

 

[Colif]

50 tabs... well,. that will add up I am sure, as each tab gets its own process. 16gb of ram is not an excuse to go to 100 though

if you only have 4gb for a few weeks, i would try to not use 50 tabs for a while. I close mine after every question I answer here or I would never find anything.

 

[hbenthow]

You might want to check the ram you have now with the free version of memtest86. it creates a bootable USB. Test 1 stick at a time and see if they ok, as no point putting a stick back in that is faulty

I've already used MemTest86 (with both sticks of RAM installed). I ran it for over 24 hours the first time that I got this BSOD. It's generally recommended to let it run for at least 8 passes. I ran it for 11 passes. There were no errors.

Do you think it's necessary to run it separately for each stick at this point?

Windows should adjust to running in less ram, it will mean more disc activity but if its only for a few weeks it shouldn't be a problem.

I see. That's somewhat reassuring. How should I store the removed RAM stick? It is my understanding that RAM sticks are very sensitive to static electricity.

i did look into the question of mismatched ram speeds and that was answer I got. WHEA errors are hardware, they aren't very specific about what but in most cases the CPU is the cause so we look there first.

Can a WHEA error be caused by a piece of software using too much of the system resources (perhaps to the point of accidentally overclocking the system) if there are no actual hardware problems?

I know that Bitdefender often uses a lot of my system resources (although it seems to ease off when other programs need them, as if it can sense this), and Opera can sometimes use a lot of system resources as well (although, as I said, I have a habit of leaving a lot of tabs open).

You may be able to get ram for less, I just found 1 site. There might be a list of compatible memory on the HP site for PC so you have more choice.

I found the site linked to below, which seems slightly cheaper, and also offers single sticks. (I think it would probably be better for me to just buy one 8GB RAM stick at a time, but make sure to buy the exact same kind each kind if I wish to add more. The first stick would be just to replace my current RAM, any addition sticks would be to add more memory.) Do you believe the site is trustworthy? Also, most of the RAM they sell has a speed of 1333MHz or 1600 Mhz. Would my computer be able to handle that? And if so, would that improve its performance, or the opposite?

Memory Upgrade for HP Compaq Pro 6305 Computer - MemoryStock

By the way, regarding BIOS, might this information on the Revision History tab for my computer's BIOS on the HP website be relevant to my situation?

"Version:2.57 Rev.A (10 Sep 2013)
Enhancements
-Added support for AMD Richland Processors.
-Added support for DASH remote management.
-Optimize memory settings to improve the reliability of the memory system."

Although this information is about a previous revision, even that revision is newer than the (2012) one that is on my computer. Also, if this enhancement (which is presumably carried over in the new 2016 BIOS update) would indeed possibly be helpful in my situation, would it be best to wait to install it until I either am only using one of my current RAM sticks or have new RAM installed (so that it would optimize the settings to that RAM instead of what I currently have)? Or does it not matter?

 

[Colif]

memtest - if you already tested it, don't do it again.
memory stick - store it in an anti static bag
WHEA errors only caused by BIOS or hardware
ram speeds. I think you find your actual speed is either 667 x 2 (1334) or 800 x 2 (1600), which are much closer to the speeds you mention so pick the faster since its obvious PC can run it.

I am not sure about the buy one, get one later but if they same type and speed, they should work

BIOS upgrade - the previous changes are included in current BIOS so once HP let you know how to update it, you might see a benefit right away. I would do it before upgrading ram in case it fixes problem.

 

[hbenthow]

memory stick - store it in an anti static bag

The only anti-static bags that I have all contain hard drives. Is it safe to slip the RAM stick into the bag with the hard drive? If not, I'll probably be able to find somewhere else to put one of the drives.

BIOS upgrade - the previous changes are included in current BIOS so once HP let you know how to update it, you might see a benefit right away. I would do it before upgrading ram in case it fixes problem.

Do you mean that I should also hold off on removing a RAM stick (ie, install the BIOS update, wait indefinitely, then only remove one of the sticks if I get another BSOD)? Or should I both install the BIOS update and remove a RAM stick around the same time?

 

[Colif]

Put it in a ziploc bag (Incase it gets stuck in the rain at some point) with some cushioning and mail it in a flat rate envelope.. No need for an anti static bag, the only point where he'd have to worry about static is when he takes it out of the envelope.. And weve beaten this to death somewhere on this forum how minimal the risk is for static as long as ur not being a tard when ur handleing ur stuff.

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/how-to-make-an-anti-static-bag.153859/

update BIOS and see if you keep getting errors before doing anything with ram. You may want to buy more anyway just cause you are always near full.