Old PC died, advice on new Rig setup appreciated.

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Victoreus

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Jun 28, 2017
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510
Hi,

First off I want to thank those of you with the know-how to take the time to read my post. This is my 1st post here and when it comes to being tech-savvy concerning computers, I just know that I'm a "lolnoob". Hence I appreciate whatever advice and help you're willing to offer. :)

My old PC died recently (again) and though I've managed to revive it quite a few times in the past with my limited know-how and the help of uncle google, I've decided it might finally be that time to move on. The old Dual-core served me loyally for well over 7 years now.

I've had bad experiences with local retailers which it seemed like a better idea to buy from a webstore, in my case the Belgian variant of Alternate ( Alternate.be , I hope I'm causing no ill here linking a store ).
I've had a look trough with their 'pc-builder' tool and a look at what is available, I have a rough idea of what seems like a decent new setup coming from that store.

[-> I'd appreciate any advice on alternatives for Alternate (buying from belgium ofc). should you have any leads. For the moment however they seem to be the best choice to me.]

Enough of my babbling and attempting to get to the point;... ;)

- Picking parts for a "high-end" (relative term ofc.) gaming rig.
- Trying to strike a balance between quality output and pricing.
- Focus on durability and longevity in the setup where possible.
- Budget; 1000EUR. to 2000EUR. Though I'd prefer to stay on the lower end of that budget where reasonable.

Processor; [I've always preffered Intel over AMD in this regard, but feel free to correct me if this may currently not be the best choice]
I was thinking about a Quad-core i5 Skylake.
Why i5 and not i7?; Someone with more knowhow than me told me that the only up on i7 was hyperthreading and according to him this was useless for any gaming pc.
Quad-core cause it seems to be the new standard for some games out there. I hope it will stay in the running for a while...
How important is the clockspeed to concider? I7 has 4.000 Mhz, which seems pricy, and I5 has a few at the 3.200 and 3.500 Mhz range that seem like good choices.
Can I make do easily with an i5 at 3.200 Mhz? Or is the i5 with 3.500 Mhz really worth the extra 50EUR.? Or am I looking at the wrong processors alltogether?
How important is my socket choice looking to the future? Currently looking at socket 1151 with those Skylakes.

link to the store components: http://

Motherboard; I am completely witless here as to what the proper choice would be. prices seem to vary heavily enough. What I can say; the socket choice should be obvious enough once the processor is properly determined. Good/decent onboard audio-quality would be nice too.

Tower/Housing ; Mainly a matter of personal taste I am guessing. My eye fell on the White Aerocool P7-C1W tower. http://
That seems to imply that i can not get an internal blu-ray. But I'm ok with getting an external model at some later time. Please advise if this choice seems for some reason unwise.

RAM Memory: I've made do with 8GB for the past 7+ years. Going forward with 16GB somehow seems like the logical next step. But I have to admit I'm again in the dark here and the components list offers so many brands and additional numbers on the technical side I'm just not savvy about.
Any advise is wholly appreciated.

Data Storage/Hard Drives; The new trend these last years seems to be combining flash drive efficiency with classic hard drive capacity. Thus making this a 2-parts purchase.

For the SSD I went by the number of positive reviews and am inclined to choose the Samsung 850 EVO, 250 GB SSD at a 100EUR. pricetag.

HD: Sata Western Digital [WD] Red, 2 TB. (I do so like to get attached to huge amounts of useless data.....)

[Will probably try to add my old PC's HD as well, to secure and sort out all the data still on there.]

GPU; Nvidia's Geforce series still seem to be the most popular choice. I am at odds between choosing either a GTX 1060 or a GTX 1070.

- I do like to play such Bethesda games like The Elder Scrolls (not the mmo) or Fallout series and mod them to smithereens.
- And I do appreciate good visuals while also enjoying a steady performance.
- I do not often play competitive online games but may do so on occasion.
- I will probably not get into VR into the foreseeable future, It's a luxuary i just can't rlly afford at the moment, nor do I concider it so important.
- High resultion media; My current screen is an older Samsung SyncMaster P2770 and doing fine at that for the time being. So any performance that's over my screens capacity is probably redundant anyway.

So which GPU would be a good choice for me right now. GTX 1060 or 1070? And if so, which one (Brand/model) would be the better choice? Or do you think I'd be better off with another GFX card entirely?
Eitherway this choice seems to be greatly going to affect both my total pricetag and my choice of PSU.

Power Supply; Advise here will probably strongly depend on my choice of GPU, assuming I would go for a GTX 1070, i guess I should get a PSU of around 600 to 700W?
I've no idea which the better models or choices are here again. Good durability/quality and less noise are always a '+' of course.
Any advise again welcome.

Operating System; I'll be buying a copy of Windows 10 Home edition. And I'm hoping they'll be able to install my entire system in English (The whole thing, not just windows.)

I noticed that this can be clunky in windows on my now broken pc as some parts would still appear in Dutch language even though I've tried to make windows 10 set everything over to English.

The store only seems to offer "Microsoft Windows 10, Software
(Nederlands=Dutch)" Any advise there? Should I ask them to try and get me an 'actual' English version of the software? Anyway compatibility issues between hardware/bios or other things i should be aware of when choosing software of a different language than is standard in my country?

Bottom line: While being a Dutch speaking Belgian I'd like my PC to be fully set in English while avoiding any hardware/software conflicts.

2ndly; Am I right to assume that Windows 10 home is completely fine for any gaming PC and there's no reason to buy Windows 10 Pro instead?


I think that would pretty much be everything I'd like help with in figuring out..
I'm sorry for writing so much, I'm just afraid I might miss something important I guess... ^^'

Again I thank you all for having the courage just to wade trough my wall of text and I look forward to learning from your insights.

"Thank you all."
 

g-unit1111

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That's actually no longer true. VR and ultra high resolutions and refresh rates are changing the game of how CPUs are actually being utilized in gaming. While more cores doesn't necessarily translate to a better gaming experience, the CPU you choose actually does have a huge effect if you decide to upgrade your monitor or go VR. If you want to stay in a mid range area, I would actually suggest the AMD R5-1600X or R7-1700 as they are currently benchmarking higher than their Intel equivalents on some games at the moment. The 7700K is still an excellent gaming CPU, but there's no reason to purchase the 7600K at the moment because the R5-1600X beats it in most games.

How important is the clockspeed to concider? I7 has 4.000 Mhz, which seems pricy, and I5 has a few at the 3.200 and 3.500 Mhz range that seem like good choices.
Can I make do easily with an i5 at 3.200 Mhz? Or is the i5 with 3.500 Mhz really worth the extra 50EUR.? Or am I looking at the wrong processors alltogether?
How important is my socket choice looking to the future? Currently looking at socket 1151 with those Skylakes.

The stock clock range matters very little anymore. Whoever gave you this information needs to get updated more on how things are working these days. It's more about core and thread utilization and overclocking than it is about running CPUs at stock speeds. Socket choice is very important. The current Intels will last you a very long time, and the current AMDs will last you a very long time as well.

GPU; Nvidia's Geforce series still seem to be the most popular choice. I am at odds between choosing either a GTX 1060 or a GTX 1070.

It is but right now cryptocurrency is hindering the market as to GPU availability. The Radeon RX 580s are a good mid range GPU (although the GTX 1060 6GB and GTX 1070 are far superior) but they're near impossible to find thanks to coin miners. Hopefully this trend will be subsiding and these GPUs will be made available again.

- High resultion media; My current screen is an older Samsung SyncMaster P2770 and doing fine at that for the time being. So any performance that's over my screens capacity is probably redundant anyway.

I'd look at spending more on a monitor upgrade. If I were you, I would spend no more than 1500€ on the tower and spending the remaining 500€ on a high resolution monitor - most likely 1440P at 120Hz or 144Hz. That will be a huge benefit for gaming on a 2000€ budget.

So which GPU would be a good choice for me right now. GTX 1060 or 1070? And if so, which one (Brand/model) would be the better choice? Or do you think I'd be better off with another GFX card entirely?

Right now depends on availability. I've been looking at the Asus Strix 1070 but the availability is impossible to find thanks to Etherum.

Power Supply; Advise here will probably strongly depend on my choice of GPU, assuming I would go for a GTX 1070, i guess I should get a PSU of around 600 to 700W?

A solid 650W - 750W is what you want. Build quality of the PSU is far more important than wattage output is. Anything from Super Flower / EVGA or Seasonic is what you want.
 

Victoreus

Prominent
Jun 28, 2017
6
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510
Thank you very much for the fast response.
I'll put your advise to use in my setup and look into your suggestions.

As to the stock clock range, That was mainly my own assumption based on the probability of higher numbers. And exactly why I knew I had to ask about just how meaningful it really is. (I did say I'm a lolnoob ;) )

Again, thank you for your insights.
 

g-unit1111

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No problem.

It's mainly outdated information. Higher stock clock speed basically means nothing when you can overclock it beyond the factory speeds. It's more about cores, threads, and RAM speeds.
 

Karadjgne

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Something like this has eye-candy written all over.
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 1600X 3.6GHz 6-Core Processor (€243.94 @ Mindfactory)
CPU Cooler: be quiet! - Dark Rock 3 67.8 CFM Fluid Dynamic Bearing CPU Cooler (€61.92 @ Mindfactory)
Motherboard: ASRock - AB350M Pro4 Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard (€86.84 @ Mindfactory)
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 Memory (€129.94 @ Mindfactory)
Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (€92.69 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Storage: Seagate - Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (€69.80 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Video Card: MSI - GeForce GTX 1070 8GB Video Card (€459.61 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Case: Fractal Design - Focus G Mini (Black) MicroATX Mini Tower Case (€53.36 @ Mindfactory)
Power Supply: SeaSonic - 650W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply (€87.79 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit (€95.69 @ Mindfactory)
Monitor: LG - 34UM88-P 34.0" 3440x1440 60Hz Monitor (€573.99 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Total: €1955.57
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-06-29 03:28 CEST+0200
 

Victoreus

Prominent
Jun 28, 2017
6
0
510
Thanks, I'll definitely be checking those out. :)

On a slight sidenote; I've never assembled a PC myself before. Previously I'd just let the store do it for me.
Is it doable for an unskilled person such as myself to do the assembly and installation myself or is there more safety in letting the 'professionals' handle it when you're not (yet) too savvy about it?
 

g-unit1111

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Yeah it's a lot easier than you would think. Once you get the CPU and CPU cooler installed, case wiring hooked into the motherboard and the motherboard screwed down, everything else hooks into place. Just read the instructions as you go along and they will tell you exactly what to do.
 

Victoreus

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Jun 28, 2017
6
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510
Seems like something I'd like to try then for a change. It'll also free me from having to buy all the components from the same place.

With pricing on certain GPU's currently inflated and the prospect of specialised hardware for those dealing in this cryptocurrency 'fever', I was feeling at odds about the timing of my new pc purchase.

Would it be possible to re-utilise my old PC's Nvidia GTX460 2GB from Gainward in any of the suggested configurations? Or would that be unwise? I couldn't find much information in regards on "If / When / How much" those related GFX cards may drop again in price.

So temporarly re-use my old GPU or better to try to hold off buying a new system all together?

I've also noticed an article about problems with hyperthreading in Kaby-lake and Skylake processors.
Kaby-lake seemed to be the one I'd be installing if i would be opting for an i7-7700 or i7-7700k

Should this issue color my choice of processor further?
My current list of 'contenders is looking like:
- "i7-7700k",
- "R5-1600x",
Or - "R7-1700".

(with the R5-1600x currently winning me over in the price/quality range.)
Should this hyperthreading issue be a reason for me to take the 7700 out of consideration?

Added the related article; http://
 

g-unit1111

Titan
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No reuse your old GPU for the time being. That's what a lot of us including myself are being forced to do because of the insane markups and shortage.

I've also noticed an article about problems with hyperthreading in Kaby-lake and Skylake processors.
Kaby-lake seemed to be the one I'd be installing if i would be opting for an i7-7700 or i7-7700k

According to that article, most of the problems have already been fixed by the motherboard vendors thanks to BIOS updates so it's not something I would be too concerned about.

Should this issue color my choice of processor further?
My current list of 'contenders is looking like:
- "i7-7700k",
- "R5-1600x",
Or - "R7-1700".

(with the R5-1600x currently winning me over in the price/quality range.)
Should this hyperthreading issue be a reason for me to take the 7700 out of consideration?

The 7700K is still one of the best gaming CPUs you can buy. The 1600X / 1700 also has issues of their own with overclocking and RAM, but that's also something that is being fixed with continuous BIOS updates.
 

Karadjgne

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Hyperthreading has no issues that I've ever heard of other than splitting the available bandwidth etc. So while you do get 1 core simultaneously pushing 2x threads, if those threads are huge hogs, you'll get a little slow down. If you think about an i3 vrs an i5, both push 4 threads, but generally the i5 is the stronger multi-thread cpu.

While your buddy was right (ish) for gaming prior to the release of BF4, nowadays he's ash-backwards. Many games are starting to get so complicated that using just 1-2 threads like CS:GO or old Skyrim, just won't do it anymore. You get games like GTA :V and BF1 that'll use up at least 8 threads if the threads are available, making 4 thread cpus such as an i3/i5 dog's in comparison. Only the skylake/kabylake i5's have sufficient IPC to power the treads through and still keep good fps. But you'll see i5's commonly use 100% or close usage as all 4 cores are taxed with thread usage.
So for modern AAA titles especially, the thread count is far more important than clock speeds, putting the i7's in top place, barely, with the multi-core Ryzen hot on their heels.

Having hyperthreading on a 4 core cpu isn't an issue. Not having that option can and is an issue, depending on the game. Even CS:GO is looking at multiple thread usage for its next release vrs its current high single thread usage as 2x short threads will shunt much faster than 1x double length thread. It's getting to the point that for any halfway serious AAA gamer, the i5 is no longer good enough, and with the complexity of games just getting worse, this trend will continue for the future.

It's exactly what happened several years ago when games started using 3-4 threads. It announced the impending death of the Core 2 duo as a staple gaming cpu.
 

Victoreus

Prominent
Jun 28, 2017
6
0
510
Ok, without the intention of bumping my post.
You've both helped me immensely in getting a clearer picture into how to plan my next Gaming setup.

So I just wanted to express my thanks again for that.


I'll make a short list of my components as soon as I am able/ready and post it for one last review before actually buying the parts.
 

Victoreus

Prominent
Jun 28, 2017
6
0
510
i7-7700k Setup. Will also post an R5-1600x Setup to compare. Still got trouble choosing between those 2.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Core i7-7700K 4.2GHz Quad-Core Processor (€339.90 @ Caseking)
CPU Cooler: be quiet! - Dark Rock 3 67.8 CFM Fluid Dynamic Bearing CPU Cooler (€60.99 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Motherboard: MSI - Z270 GAMING PRO CARBON ATX LGA1151 Motherboard (€158.60 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 Memory (€137.93 @ Mindfactory)
Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (€92.71 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Storage: Seagate - Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (€69.80 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Case: Aerocool - P7-C1 White ATX Mid Tower Case (€93.56 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Power Supply: SeaSonic - PRIME Titanium 750W 80+ Titanium Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply (€193.84 @ Mindfactory)
Total: €1147.33
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-06-29 22:15 CEST+0200

Ok the setup ofcourse will be using my old Gainward GTX460 2GB. (The very 1st 2GB model)
Later likely to be upgraded to a GTX 1070 , but I'll have to review that when the time comes.

Mobo; This "Gaming Carbon Pro" motherboard looks nicer than most but I'm uncertain on how it technically compares. Ratings seem to claim it's good. Thoughts?

Also, from what I've been reading up on PSU's I am under the impression that the better the certificate the longer your components are likely to live due to the efficiency. From that I decided to go for the Seasonic 750W titanic instead of gold. Is that overkill or worth it?

I'm in love with that Aerocool P7-C1W case. The picture in this list seems to be showing off the wrong model though. Here's the right one; P7-C1W @ Alternate(be)

With an R5-1600x setup I'd basically replace the processor and would have to figure out which would be the most ideal mobo to go with it again. Everything else may pretty much remain the same there again.

 

Karadjgne

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80+ is a Voluntary Certification, it's not a standard by any means. 80+ is a third party organization that takes (sometimes cherry picked) donated psus and tests them for 20/50/100% loads, while measuring output vrs draw from the wall. If a psu can pull at least 80/80/80 it qualifies for 80+ efficiency. At 82/85/82 it qualifies for Bronze, at 87/90/87 it's Gold etc. Considering what it takes to get those efficiency levels and not loose a bunch of efficiency to heat, the internal circuitry should make for a better psu, and in reliable OEMs, it usually does. But thats a general idea, there's also many Gold units that are far worse than some Bronze, simply due to cheap components, lax QC, shoddy soldering etc. Then, of course, there's always the cheaters, who pray on the ignorance of the public by using 'Gold' in the name, just to make a very bad psu sound better than it really is.

When shopping for a psu, quality is number 1 concern, if you are unsure, ask. The difference between a Bronze Seasonic and a Gold Seasonic is pretty much a few € a year on the electric bill for instance. Because of all that internal circuitry, the side affect is that in almost all cases, the DC line as read on an O-Scope shows better ripple suppression, a straighter, less violent DC voltage after conversion from AC, and that can be very important to overclockers looking at extreme OC. For most general and normal OC ranges, Bronze units are more than capable of good stability ranges.

That titanium unit is kinda overkill for your intended usage, Gold would be more than sufficient, Bronze would even work if from a reliable, quality vendkr/model.
 
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