Deleting old Windows from 2nd drive destroyed my system

[gardenman]

I bought an SSD and restored my Windows to it (without my old HDD connected). Once I got Windows up and going on the SSD I reconnected the HDD up and everything has been working nicely for a few months. I have not installed anything to my old HDD, just copied a few files over to it.

Today I wanted to delete the Windows (only) from my old HDD. I knew it would be difficult due to file permissions. I started out by moving the folders into a temporary folder and rebooting to see if it will mess with my current system. I didn't think it would.

Read here to see what I was doing: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-3496823/delete-protected-files-hdd-windows-installed.html#20081266

I used the following example commands on the folders to be able to delete them:
takeown /F "Windows" /A /R /D Y
cacls "Windows\*.*" /T /grant administrators:F

I delete Windows, Program Files, and Program Files (x86). Rebooted and had no problems with my system at all.

I was unable to delete the Users and ProgramData folders from the old HDD. I did delete a bunch of files/folders out of them, but couldn't delete it all. I got an error after the 2 commands and I thought no big deal. The errors were: "The data area passed to a system call is too small."

I rebooted. Now my start menu is about 1/3rd of its normal size. I'm not sure what all else is missing, but somehow over the last few months Windows apparently decided to start using the old Users folder on my old hard drive, and I guess the ProgramData folder too.

Is there any reason why it did this?

I know alot of program settings and such are stored in ProgramData and alot of user settings and start menu are stored in the Users folders.

I still have the full Users and ProgramData folders on my SSD, but who knows how outdated they are because Windows apparently wasn't using them (or fully using them?)

Am I looking at a restore of a backup (Aug 7th system backup)? I only have the SDD backed up which shouldn't be a huge problem but I didn't expect Windows to do this. I don't have the old Windows on the old HDD backed up and have already half way removed it.

Why would Windows do this? Start using a "Users" and a "ProgramData" folder from an old HDD?
Is there any type of fix? I honestly wouldn't think there is because the recycle bin has been emptied.

I'll be backing up everything that I can for now in case I have to restore.

Any help / explanations appreciated.

 

[DSzymborski]

That's hardly "destroying your system." Your hardware is fine.

How did you "restore" Windows to your SSD? You should've been doing a full, fresh install, not doing any backup restoration nonsense.

 

[gardenman]

You're right, my system isn't destroyed.

A full install was completely unnecessary. I have programs which simply can't be reinstalled because they are no longer available.

I did a full system backup of my old hard drive, saved the compressed backup to a bluray disc, restored it to the new SSD (without having the HDD connected). The new SSD took the same drive letter as the old HDD had, drive C. I used my system for a few days before reconnecting the hard drive.

I still don't know what all is wrong since the reboot I did. I do know that the start menu is about 1/3rd of what it was. I have checked some programs and they are using the correct ProgramData folder (the one on the SSD).

Windows was apparently using part of the start menu from the Users folder on the old HDD and that just makes no sense to me why it would do that. It might have been the "All Users" portion of the start menu. I do have a backup of JUST the start menu but it's probably several weeks old so I MIGHT be able to use it, but I still need answers as to why this happened.

 

[USAFRet]

I have no idea of what you've actually done, but it is completely wrong.

Disconnect the HDD.
Boot from your Windows install media.
Wipe and full install of the OS on the SSD.

 

[DSzymborski]

You're right, my system isn't destroyed.

A full install was completely unnecessary. I have programs which simply can't be reinstalled because they are no longer available.

I did a full system backup of my old hard drive, saved the compressed backup to a bluray disc, restored it to the new SSD (without having the HDD connected). The new SSD took the same drive letter as the old HDD had, drive C. I used my system for a few days before reconnecting the hard drive.

I still don't know what all is wrong since the reboot I did. I do know that the start menu is about 1/3rd of what it was. I have checked some programs and they are using the correct ProgramData folder (the one on the SSD).

Windows was apparently using part of the start menu from the Users folder on the old HDD and that just makes no sense to me why it would do that. It might have been the "All Users" portion of the start menu. I do have a backup of JUST the start menu but it's probably several weeks old so I MIGHT be able to use it, but I still need answers as to why this happened.

From the sounds of it, you're treating an operating system like Lego. You have a mish-mash of tinkering, restorations, partial uninstalls, moving things around, etc. It doesn't sound like you properly cloned your drive in the first place, which is what you do if you want to move a Windows install on a PC (assuming no hardware changes). At this point, your solution is to simply start from scratch. And yes, that is necessary.

 

[gardenman]

I have no idea of what you've actually done, but it is completely wrong.

Disconnect the HDD.
Boot from your Windows install media.
Wipe and full install of the OS on the SSD.

What I did was basically a "clone". I created a backup of my HDD. I restored that backup to a new SSD. What's so difficult/confusing or wrong about that? And like I said, it worked great, even without the old HDD hooked up (as I tested it for a few days at least).

I simply can't loose the last 7 years of software that I've installed because my start menu is half gone and Windows decided to "attach" itself to an old hard drive for some unknown reason.

I have an Aug 4th backup of my start menu. My system backup was done on Aug 7th but there's probably been little change in the start menu for the past few months. But here is the thing, even if I restore those start menu files, it's unlikely I'll be able to delete those old folders from my old HDD.

 

[USAFRet]

"basically a clone" is not a "proper clone".
Now you are knee deep in a semi-functional system.
Either live with it or fix it.
And by 'fix it'...I mean a wipe and reinstall.

There are ways to do it correctly. Whatever you did was not it.

 

[gardenman]

"basically a clone" is not a "proper clone".
Now you are knee deep in a semi-functional system.
Either live with it or fix it.
And by 'fix it'...I mean a wipe and reinstall.

There are ways to do it correctly. Whatever you did was not it.

So using a backup program to do a full system backup, and then restoring it to a new drive is not correct? I disagree.

Also, I can fully restore my backup to a VM and it has the full start menu in it. (I test my backups to make sure they are fully functional). The VM will have only 1 drive in it. It just doesn't make sense how Windows has attached itself to my old HDD.

If I restore it I will lose a little bit of info from the last few weeks. I was hoping to avoid that and it still doesn't answer the question of why Windows did this (attached itself to another drive).

A full reinstall is pretty much out of the question for me. I'm pretty sure some of my drivers won't even install on Win 10. They were originally installed on Win 7 and I used the free upgrade. I'm not gonna install Win 7, drivers, update to Win 10 + lose a ton of software.

 

[USAFRet]

"a backup program"

What program, and how, exactly, did you do it?

There are many ways to do it correctly.
There are also many ways to do it incorrectly.

 

[gardenman]

"a backup program"

What program, and how, exactly, did you do it?

There are many ways to do it correctly.
There are also many ways to do it incorrectly.

Paragon Backup & Recovery 14 Free. I used it to create a backup. I copied the backup to a bluray. I removed the HDD. I installed the SSD. I used a recovery CD restored from the bluray to the new SSD. Windows worked before the HDD was reattached. Windows worked after the HDD was reattached.

I never pointed any of my folders to the old HDD. I have not installed anything to the old HDD. So it doesn't make sense why it's using those 2 folders.

That's what I need answers on. I know for a fact that my backup and restore process is fully functional and working. I think maybe a Windows Update or something else did this.

 

[DSzymborski]

"basically a clone" is not a "proper clone".
Now you are knee deep in a semi-functional system.
Either live with it or fix it.
And by 'fix it'...I mean a wipe and reinstall.

There are ways to do it correctly. Whatever you did was not it.

So using a backup program to do a full system backup, and then restoring it to a new drive is not correct? I disagree.

Also, I can fully restore my backup to a VM and it has the full start menu in it. (I test my backups to make sure they are fully functional). The VM will have only 1 drive in it. It just doesn't make sense how Windows has attached itself to my old HDD.

If I restore it I will lose a little bit of info from the last few weeks. I was hoping to avoid that and it still doesn't answer the question of why Windows did this (attached itself to another drive).

A full reinstall is pretty much out of the question for me. I'm pretty sure some of my drivers won't even install on Win 10. They were originally installed on Win 7 and I used the free upgrade. I'm not gonna install Win 7, drivers, update to Win 10 + lose a ton of software.

If they won't install in Windows 10, how are you using them now? There's no magic "immunity" that drivers get from an upgrade to Windows 10 as opposed to an install of Windows 10. If you're running Windows 10 now, you can fresh install a Windows 10. Just reinstall your software like every other person on the planet is able to do when installing Windows.

Either way, as seem more interested in splashing another coat of paint over this giant mess rather than resolving the situation for good, I'm unable to provide any more assistance. I wish you the best of luck in getting your PC working the way you wish it to.

 

[USAFRet]

1. A Windows Update wouldn't do all of that weirdness.

2. You did NOT need to make a backup, copy to a bluray, and then 'restore to the SSD.
You could have done a straight clone from old drive to new drive.


So supposedly it all works on the SSD?
OK, then...take the HDD out. Boot up with only the SSD connected. Prove it to yourself.
If it actually works....then reconnect the HDD and wipe ALL of the partitions on it.

The OS can't automagically start using stuff and folders from other drives, unless you either did it yourself, or did this backup thing wrong.

 

[gardenman]

If they won't install in Windows 10, how are you using them now? There's no magic "immunity" that drivers get from an upgrade to Windows 10 as opposed to an install of Windows 10. If you're running Windows 10 now, you can fresh install a Windows 10. Just reinstall your software like every other person on the planet is able to do when installing Windows.

If the setup program for an older driver expects Windows to be X version before it will install and at the time there never was a version 10 of Windows then it may not install on Win 10. I know, it's poor programming on the hardware companies side, but it's out of my control. Write and ask Logitech if interested. Some of my drivers are older. I know I should update them but I have reasons for not doing so.

 

[gardenman]

1. A Windows Update wouldn't do all of that weirdness.

2. You did NOT need to make a backup, copy to a bluray, and then 'restore to the SSD.
You could have done a straight clone from old drive to new drive.


So supposedly it all works on the SSD?
OK, then...take the HDD out. Boot up with only the SSD connected. Prove it to yourself.
If it actually works....then reconnect the HDD and wipe ALL of the partitions on it.

The OS can't automagically start using stuff and folders from other drives, unless you either did it yourself, or did this backup thing wrong.

I realize that I did NOT need to make a backup to a bluray and restore it that way, but it was the best option for me. I downloaded and looked at a CloneZilla and it appeared to be a linux mess with oddball commands and difficult to understand instructions. I used the backup software that I know works and it worked. It still works. With all of the talk about people having their boot partitions placed on their old HDD because they had it connected while installing Windows to their new SDD, I just wanted to take the HDD out of the equation. That's why I backed it up. It was easy to do and it worked.

What would be the point of taking out the HDD now and testing the OS? The start menu isn't working properly. I know it's severely messed up. I also know for a fact that the OS did automagically start using those 2 folders from the old HDD.

I rebooted a few minutes ago again to see if there were any changes, there wasn't. I did however get a BSOD. It's the first time in years that I've seen one. Ha, just my luck. I know what caused it and it's no big deal, shouldn't happen again.

I can see that we are getting nowhere here. I was looking for answers as to why this happened, what caused it, how to fix it. I got the expected "you need to reinstall Windows" replies and the unexpected "you did your backup wrong" replies.

I do thank you for your time, for you replies. You tried to help, and that counts. I'll figure it out. Take care. You can close this out if you like.