Annoying Moderators in Hardware Forums

[drkatz42]

Does anyone else find the moderators in the hardware forums to respond with a great deal of smugness and often don't actually answer the questions? I often read the following from people with questions: "should I purchase GPU A or Gpu B" and the response typically is "you should buy GPU X and btw your system is a piece of garbage".(some poetic license but you get the idea) Apparently some of the responders have no concept of someone on a severe budget! In addition, when they read a response they disagree with, rather than a simple explanation of why they disagree, they find it necessary to disparage the writer. So in the future, please answer the question at hand and of course add in additional commentary in a non confrontational manner. Always keep responses and questions civil PLEASE.

 

[Corwin65]

I disagree completely.

I think that is an extremely rare situation. When I've seen the moderators chime in, I usually see a very good explanation which many times helps me learn something, or at least validate something I think I know well.

 

[lumineZ]

Cant say I have seen anything like you describe??

And I do wonder about the "should I purchase GPU A or Gpu B" and the response typically is "you should buy GPU X and btw your system is a piece of garbage".(some poetic license but you get the idea)


You dont really set a good example there.

If OP has lets say:

Intel Core 2 Duo E6850
2 GB ram
(rest of the components to make the system run)


Now lets say he has an old 8800GTX as a GPU and want to upgrade like you say.

He ask: Should I get a 1080 or 1080Ti?


Even I would say get a 1050TI -1060 since even that would be an overkill on a system like that. I would recommend him to upgrade everything.



Sure I have seen a few sarcastic remarks but ONLY when they are correct if you ask me. Here is one example:

OP: I wanted to try watercooling so I dropped my computer into a bowl of water. Now it does not work......... Help.....


or


OP: I wanted a silent system so I did not put any cooler on the CPU since I will not use any CPU heavy programs, but system still hangs, crashes and reboots.... Help.....




I am sorry but in this kind of situations... One can only be sarcastic if you ask me...

 

[Rogue Leader]

We do value feedback here. If you can provide some examples we would be more than happy to review. We are not above reproach, of course.

 

[drkatz42]

We do value feedback here. If you can provide some examples we would be more than happy to review. We are not above reproach, of course.

of course

 

[Rogue Leader]

You may send a message to me privately if you prefer.

 

[drkatz42]

You may send a message to me privately if you prefer.

That's not necessary. I would simply like to see a bit more understanding and civil tone, especially when responding to individuals who likely have low resources(currency) and/or live in areas where hardware is scarce.

 

[Rogue Leader]

You may send a message to me privately if you prefer.

That's not necessary. I would simply like to see a bit more understanding and civil tone, especially when responding to individuals who likely have low resources(currency) and/or live in areas where hardware is scarce.

Well then I would like to take issue with your comment. I find that we are pretty open about systems, especially that some of our moderators are running older hardware and not the latest cutting edge stuff. If anything we have an epidemic of folks recommending system builds for basic questions, where we as the moderation team generally recommend the best value for the user. Some of our moderators are even from those locations where parts/resources are scarce. Hence we would like some examples.

I can think of one recently where I posted similarly to what you described (the OP had almost no budget, I didn't want him to waste it), and you posted in support, so you can understand my confusion.

 

[drkatz42]

You may send a message to me privately if you prefer.

That's not necessary. I would simply like to see a bit more understanding and civil tone, especially when responding to individuals who likely have low resources(currency) and/or live in areas where hardware is scarce.

Well then I would like to take issue with your comment. I find that we are pretty open about systems, especially that some of our moderators are running older hardware and not the latest cutting edge stuff. If anything we have an epidemic of folks recommending system builds for basic questions, where we as the moderation team generally recommend the best value for the user. Some of our moderators are even from those locations where parts/resources are scarce. Hence we would like some examples.

I can think of one recently where I posted similarly to what you described (the OP had almost no budget, I didn't want him to waste it), and you posted in support, so you can understand my confusion.

Your response to that question was appropriate in my opinion. There are thousands of posts and I have noticed enough "unkind" responses(in my opinion) to start this thread. I have not gone out of my way to make a notation of each thread I found something offensive in. Requesting that people check how their response is going to be received is not in my opinion something to take issue with.

 

[Yogi2367]

Perhaps a better way to explain the OP's position is this ... there have been times, and I don't keep track either, where replies from moderators, and others, do seem a little condescending.
I think that mostly comes from posters asking what would be considered by reasonably computer educated folks to be stupid questions. i.e. a poster begins to explain a problem that leads everyone to believe they are knowledgeable, and they get replies from everyone, not just moderators, that assume the poster has a good idea of what they are talking about, when in fact the poster really doesn't have a clue, and is just regurgitating information gleaned from other sources.
Perhaps the the goto here should be;
1) Posters: Don't be afraid to show your ignorance and ask stupid questions, and
2) Repliers: Assume nothing and answer question in the grain that the poster does not know what they are talking about.

An example of a question showing my ignorance could be found here ... http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-3565611/asus-rog-gtx-1070-strix-acer-gn246hl.html I frankly don't have a clue about cables, and I hope that comes across in my question.

Just my humble 2 cents worth.

 

[Stormbow]

Perhaps the the goto here should be;
1) Posters: Don't be afraid to show your ignorance and ask stupid questions, and
2) Repliers: Assume nothing and answer question in the grain that the poster does not know what they are talking about.

I think it's important to note, however an aside this may be, that it's somewhat of a global epidemic where people who do not actually want to answer a question are posting ... uninspiring ... comments as replies because they've heard the question a "billion times" before.

If you're reading this (Not you, Yogi), and you're one of those people, just don't post. Leave it for someone who truly does want to help.

Thank you.

 

[drkatz42]

Perhaps a better way to explain the OP's position is this ... there have been times, and I don't keep track either, where replies from moderators, and others, do seem a little condescending.
I think that mostly comes from posters asking what would be considered by reasonably computer educated folks to be stupid questions. i.e. a poster begins to explain a problem that leads everyone to believe they are knowledgeable, and they get replies from everyone, not just moderators, that assume the poster has a good idea of what they are talking about, when in fact the poster really doesn't have a clue, and is just regurgitating information gleaned from other sources.
Perhaps the the goto here should be;
1) Posters: Don't be afraid to show your ignorance and ask stupid questions, and
2) Repliers: Assume nothing and answer question in the grain that the poster does not know what they are talking about.

An example of a question showing my ignorance could be found here ... http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-3565611/asus-rog-gtx-1070-strix-acer-gn246hl.html I frankly don't have a clue about cables, and I hope that comes across in my question.

Just my humble 2 cents worth.

Holy Crap Yogi! It's those type of threads that have caused me to think about quitting Toms Hardware!! Those types of responses by rgd1101 and others show a complete lack of ability to make a connection with sincere forum members who are seeking information.

 

[4745454b]

Wrong. It is our job to enforce the rules and policies of this site. If we had to stop and coddle every single rule breaker, we would never get anything done. I myself have posted many "no bumps allowed", getting talked back like you two did is uncalled for. We are not paid staff members. We do not deserve pushing back when we try to do what we are told to do.

Believe me, this is one of the nicer corners of the net. More so when it comes to Tech. Try bad mouthing Mods on other sites. The reaction won't be pretty.

 

[Rogue Leader]

I answered your question as that is what we are here to do however you both seem to think we are paid employees here to coddle and hug everyone. That's not how it works. We answer questions just like everyone else, we are unpaid volunteers, and when it comes to simple basic rules a quick "don't do that" is all that is needed. If we spent all day holding hands of every rule breaker then we would never be able to complete our jobs. Jobs we do in our spare time for free.

This is one of the biggest tech sites on the net, many of us deal with hundreds of post issues a day. Ever hear about walking a mile in someone else's shoes? Give it a try, start your own forum, watch what happens. We get abused non stop by some folks every day for what? Trying to keep this place in line so people can get the help they need. Think about that before you come and crap all over us for not holding your hand for breaking a rule.

 

[Darkbreeze]

There's also a big difference between "helping" and telling somebody what they want to hear. If you want the truth, then ask. If you want somebody to pat you on the back and tell you that "yes" you can play PUBG on max settings at 4k with a GTX 1050, I think you'll find that there are plenty of people at places like linustechtips who are more than willing to accomodate you.

It's totally understandable that some people have low resources, and believe me, we try to take all aspects into consideration, but even when that IS the case, it does not change the simple fact that quite often what they are asking to do cannot be done WITHOUT upgrading something or everything. Being of modest means does not change the rules for what can be done with a limited hardware configuration.

Aside from that, I think you'll find that, contrary to what you've expressed here, you are far more likely to find a member of this moderation team telling somebody what they honestly CAN accomplish with the hardware they have rather than having to spend money unnecessarily on an upgrade, then you will from the majority of regular members. So to come off with these kinds of inane statements that the monderators here are smug, annoying and don't answer questions, would simply go to show that anybody willing to make a statement like that has either not taken the time to actually look around and see the forest they are standing in, or simply do not know what a tree is in the first place.

 

[sizzling]

Generally I think the moderators here are good, usually fair and explain there point of view well. However in the last few years I have had 2 seperate issues with moderators. The first I was absolutely disgusted with how a moderator not only spoke to the OP of a post but also how he dismissed my opinion which was different to his, I spent time explaining my point of to get some rude answer back. When I pointed out how bad his attitude was and unhelpful to the OP which I did politely but clearly I got a temporary ban. Now when I was back on the site I raised this issue with other moderators as this first moderator seriously let the side down and I didn't get a single response to my issue. This really tarnished the image of the mods in my view.

The second incident was a mod being quite disrespectful about an opinion that differed to his even though my opinion was based on first hand experience. Couldn't be bothered to raise this based on my first experience of raising issues and this time it only impacted me.

Fortunately I haven't seen the moderator of the first incident posting much recently, he seems to has disappeared.

So on the whole they are good but they are human and sometimes one or two let the side down.

 

[Graybush]

If you have any issues with a moderator or a moderator response, please feel free to submit a complaint to community@tomshardware.com with date, name of moderator, and a description (with links) of the issue. Our staff investigates all complaints.

 

[g-unit1111]

Here's the thing - we moderators are regular users just like you guys. We started out as regular users, and we post like regular users. The thing is when one is appointed to be a moderator, we are held to a much higher standard than regular users are. As such, when situations come up like this, or when we have to enforce the rules, it's not always a pleasant situation. It can end rather ugly and when it does it's not good for anybody involved. So we try to minimize situations like that as much as possible. But as Rogue Leader said this is definitely one of the nicer and more tolerant communities on the internet. If you go to some other corners of the internet and especially in the tech world, don't be surprised to see some moderators on some extreme power trips. And while I don't want to name names, I've been to forums like that.

 

[Mousemonkey]

Generally I think the moderators here are good, usually fair and explain there point of view well. However in the last few years I have had 2 seperate issues with moderators. The first I was absolutely disgusted with how a moderator not only spoke to the OP of a post but also how he dismissed my opinion which was different to his, I spent time explaining my point of to get some rude answer back. When I pointed out how bad his attitude was and unhelpful to the OP which I did politely but clearly I got a temporary ban. Now when I was back on the site I raised this issue with other moderators as this first moderator seriously let the side down and I didn't get a single response to my issue. This really tarnished the image of the mods in my view.

The second incident was a mod being quite disrespectful about an opinion that differed to his even though my opinion was based on first hand experience. Couldn't be bothered to raise this based on my first experience of raising issues and this time it only impacted me.

Fortunately I haven't seen the moderator of the first incident posting much recently, he seems to has disappeared.

So on the whole they are good but they are human and sometimes one or two let the side down.

I'm still here, watching, waiting.

 

[Madmaxneo]

Does anyone else find the moderators in the hardware forums to respond with a great deal of smugness and often don't actually answer the questions? I often read the following from people with questions: "should I purchase GPU A or Gpu B" and the response typically is "you should buy GPU X and btw your system is a piece of garbage".(some poetic license but you get the idea) Apparently some of the responders have no concept of someone on a severe budget! In addition, when they read a response they disagree with, rather than a simple explanation of why they disagree, they find it necessary to disparage the writer. So in the future, please answer the question at hand and of course add in additional commentary in a non confrontational manner. Always keep responses and questions civil PLEASE.

I have seen several instances where this is the case, so I see your point. But in a few cases most people are just trying to help out the OP, but the OP tends to go back and forth with their "budget" or what's good. Also in many cases I have seen it where the OP does have a budget and has a build but the responders (moderators and not) offer advice on a better system for a lower cost.
I've only see a couple of posts where the person trying to help actually did do what you mention without any provocation, and that sets a bad name for the community here in Tom's hardware.

 

[Darkbreeze]

I have to add this. Just so you all understand. Moderators don't care what you spend on your system. We also don't care if you have the latest and greatest hardware. We are all, at least, as experienced with building systems as the rest of you are and in most cases, far more so, having been doing it in one way or another since not long after there were consumer platforms to mess with.

In some cases, some of these guys have been working on computer systems since BEFORE there were computers available to the general public. Many of them have been keeping our military systems up and running for years and years. The last thing in the world any moderator wants to do is waste time. Ours or yours.

In most cases, if one of us states that upgrading a component in your system is a waste of time, it's because it almost certainly is and that advice is generally based on what the OP has said they intend to use the system for OR what it currently is not capable of doing.

Since this thread started with following statement:

I often read the following from people with questions: "should I purchase GPU A or Gpu B" and the response typically is "you should buy GPU X and btw your system is a piece of garbage".(some poetic license but you get the idea) Apparently some of the responders have no concept of someone on a severe budget!

then it's easy to surmise that somebody feels we should only make recommendations that fall within the criteria set forth by the OP. I can almost guarantee that in ANY and ALL cases where a moderator has made a recommendation that does NOT fall within those criterion it is because they KNOW that the desired result will fall short of what the OP has determined and explained they are seeking to do.

In some cases it may also be that we, having dealt with THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of similar posts, know that they can get something better within a reasonable reach of whatever budget was set forth by the OP in the first place, and will result in a far better outcome.

Also worth noting, we help people from ALL over the world. Recommendations that make sense in one region may either not make sense in another one, or even not be possible at all. Most (Not all, but most) regular users of this site have no experience with the very different issues and availability of parts in regions that are not their own. What you can get in the US may not be possible in India, or Latvia, or South Africa, and conversely, what you might find to be a common component in one part of the world might cost five times more, or less, in the UK or Australia. We know this because we see it on a daily basis. Most of you, again, most, not necessarily all, do not, because you don't deal with that on a daily basis.

Then there is the final consideration that we deal with a heck of a lot of people who simply want more than is possible with the platform they currently have, no matter what parts you add to it, without scrapping the whole platform and moving to something that is new enough to bring it within range of realistically accomplishing what it is they want to do.

So when you see a moderator tell somebody they cant' do what they want to do with what they currently have, without a bigger investment than they what they have outlined, you can be sure that 90% or more of the time it's because we know for a fact that it's not realistic and that if we hold their hand, pat them on the back and tell them it's ok, and then recommend something that fits their budget but does not get the job done, they will be back here within days of discovering that to shout to the world how we told them it would work but doesn't. Either way, somebody isn't happy.

I don't think I've ever seen, more than maybe a handful of times out of the thousands and millions of posts here, any moderator tell somebody they couldn't do what they wanted to do, within the budget they set forth, if it wasn't true. Far more likely is the fact that you will see a moderator tell somebody they don't actually NEED to spend as much money as they are trying to, in order to achieve whatever goal they are pursuing.

To say otherwise means one of two things. You are either simply making an attemp to create strife where none existed, or you are dangerously ignorant of the issues and topics you are trying to set an example with. I can 100% assure you that if ever, and it does occasionally happen, any one of us on the moderation team offers advice or information that is inaccurate, and you send a PM to another moderator or one of the members you consistently see with a high ranking on the leader boards (I don't mean for one or two months. I mean somebody who is within the top ten on the "Ever" charts), it will almost immediately get addressed and clarified. We don't attempt to spread misinformation by intent and we certainly have no dog in the fight when it comes to unnecessarily attempting to get somebody to overspend their budgets if it's not strictly necessary.

Also, this is a tech site, and we deal with specifics, not poetry, so save the poetic license for the literary forums, not here. There is no poetic license when it comes to making accusations or spreading malcontent, so you can can that crap.

 

[drkatz42]

"spreading malcontent, so you can can that crap. " per darkbreeze. I started this thread to express an opinion about the tone some moderators take in the forums. Some have had similar experiences and others have said it happens rarely to never. This is considered a dialogue and exchange of experiences.(FYI) Perhaps as a Moderator, you could be more enlightened and able to validate others experiences and ideas without necessarily agreeing with them.

 

[vrumor]

Might help if you had a single example. Ive had some run ins with mods, but they were fair and it was completely my doing that brought their wrath down upon me. I have also given flip and or sarcastic comments. But im not a mod. I find that some people need to be nudged in a direction, or not patted on the back like they are looking for. How bout the folks that can use Google just as good as anyone else but would rather have other folks look it up. I think if you are looking for a hug or for someone to coddle you, you should probably keep looking. As said in other posts, other tech sites are like the Wild West. People who violate the rules should be reminded, sometimes not so gently.

 

[drkatz42]

Might help if you had a single example. Ive had some run ins with mods, but they were fair and it was completely my doing that brought their wrath down upon me. I have also given flip and or sarcastic comments. But im not a mod. I find that some people need to be nudged in a direction, or not patted on the back like they are looking for. How bout the folks that can use Google just as good as anyone else but would rather have other folks look it up. I think if you are looking for a hug or for someone to coddle you, you should probably keep looking. As said in other posts, other tech sites are like the Wild West. People who violate the rules should be reminded, sometimes not so gently.

Don't need coddling or a hug. Reporting what I've witnessed being directed to others in enough posts to make it somewhat of an annoyance.

 

[DSzymborski]

No examples have been provided and it's fundamentally unfair to ask people to defend themselves from a subjective impression unsupported by any evidentiary backing. Frankly, I think the moderators have shown a surfeit of generosity to even respond to accusations not supported by a single actionable example.