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It´s Intel´s day: AMD in the dust...

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May 21, 2003 1:42:58 PM

OK, this is great... Springdale performs very well, and costs much less than Canterwood... And the "C" family of processors actually did much better than I had though it would. :cool: I was under the impression that the 3.2C was also due today... One thing, however, is for sure: the XP3200 will not, even in the best case scenario, keep up with the 3.2C.

I already know what I´ll be upgrading to: Springdale! (drool) a nice P4P800, or something...

And that thing about dynamic overclocking was nice! Apparently, the 3.0Ghz gets converted into the oh-so-expected 3.2Ghz or even a little more, if you push it hard enough... Sure, it´s OC and it´s basically a tricky ruse, but it´s interesting... I wonder how many people will <i>actually buy</i> the MSI board just because of that!

More about : intels day amd dust

May 21, 2003 5:23:54 PM

Yeah but it will come down in price alot quicker than the 3.2C also.
May 21, 2003 7:26:50 PM

Actually I'm under *very* heavy consideration of exchanging my AXP 3000+ with nForce2 to a Canterwood P4 mobo with 2.8 P4 with 800 FSB. Besides the small gains in performance (the 2.8 800 even beats the AXP 3200+, at Tech-Report as well as on THG) I also get chipset incorporated Serial ATA, Gigabit Lan, as well as the better quality of the P4 CPU itself. If I'm doing this I'll only be paying a small extra cost, because that I know the dealer I usually purchase stuff of.

Why Canterwood and not Springdale then? First off, there's only a 40$ extra cost for the Canterwood over the Springdale, where I live, so I consider these 5% extra performance (judging from several reviews around the net) to do the work for me.

Dynamic overclocking sounds cool but I'll probably run at stock speeds with my new system, so my daring move would be the ASUS P4C800 Deluxe, despite my bad experience with ASUS lately.


My system: AMD Athlon XP 3000+ CPU / TwinMOS 1Gb DDR400 / Soltek 75FRN-RL /
Sapphire Radeon 9800 Pro / Antec True Power 550W / Maxtor 80Gb ATA-133 / Hercules GTXP SC /
Samsung DVD / Lite-On CDRW<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by sabbath1 on 05/21/03 03:28 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
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May 21, 2003 7:29:12 PM

It'll still be heavily overrated though.

My system: AMD Athlon XP 3000+ CPU / TwinMOS 1Gb DDR400 / Soltek 75FRN-RL /
Sapphire Radeon 9800 Pro / Antec True Power 550W / Maxtor 80Gb ATA-133 / Hercules GTXP SC /
Samsung DVD / Lite-On CDRW
May 21, 2003 8:11:08 PM

Quote:
Why Canterwood and not Springdale then? First off, there's only a 40$ extra cost for the Canterwood over the Springdale, where I live, so I consider these 5% extra performance (judging from several reviews around the net) to do the work for me.

Please don't take it personally, but you would be an idiot if you interpreted 5%.

Have you checked out THG's chipset comparison benchmarks?
The Canterwood is a friggin' joke! It's not more than 0.1% better and only once is about 5% better, and is even once outrun marginally!
Pay 40$ US for 0.1%, and you'd be a very big bloke!

And yeah, go exchange, not only do you get better performance overall, BUT you also get HYPERTHREADING! 2.8 costs less than 3000+ IIRC, so if you exchange, hmm, dunno if it'll work, but if it does, then great.

--
If I could see the Matrix, I'd tell you I am only seeing 0s inside your head! :tongue:
May 21, 2003 9:40:44 PM

According to AnandTech and maybe Tech-Report as well, the performance difference could be up to 10%, in rare cases though. (That's at AnandTech).

Mostly the difference is 3-5%. Take a look at those benches as well, they're not the same as the ones used here at THG. I may sound stupid but the extra performance is for me, worth $40, especially considering that one of my main points of switching is to have the Prescott running with the same board (this is as of yet not 100% certain but it seems extremely likely from what I've heard. Please correct me if I'm wrong?

(Yes I know that Springdale supports Prescott as well, but as I'm keeping this board for maybe an entire year, I want the best perf.)

So now when I'm upgrading and the difference is $40, and I get up to 8-10% in a few benches (3-4 benches) plus ECC support if I eventually go that route, then I won't dare to pick Springdale. Besides, at Anandtech, the 2.8C with C-wood edged out the XP3200+, AMD's top dog, with just 2 benches. I know this may sound like a stupid argument but I really want to feel that I'm upgrading, since with this trade, I'd have to put up with $100. But considering the higher quality of the P4 as a product, ECC detection, integrated SATA, a small perf increase, and a very strong upgrade path (from one year on from now), I see this as a very good "trade".


My system: AMD Athlon XP 3000+ CPU / TwinMOS 1Gb DDR400 / Soltek 75FRN-RL /
Sapphire Radeon 9800 Pro / Antec True Power 550W / Maxtor 80Gb ATA-133 / Hercules GTXP SC /
Samsung DVD / Lite-On CDRW<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by sabbath1 on 05/21/03 05:49 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
May 21, 2003 11:03:02 PM

I think you´re in for a very good trade there...

Integrated S-ATA is indeed a strong point and also makes for good upgradability... If you do get a P4C800, you might as well take a Deluxe - these thingies might just have an integrated RAID controller as well. Might be interesting for upgradability... then again, might cost you more as well...

As for prescott upgradability, that´s also an excellent point! And I´d choose a 2.8C with HT over the 3000+ in any case...

And sabbath, if you do trade your system, then please let us know how you felt afterwards... if your system felt/was faster/slower, or whatever. Highly interesting stuff!!!
May 22, 2003 8:22:48 PM

I think you're wrong, mainly because I can spot a lot of things that will go unused:

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But considering the higher quality of the P4 as a product

This is applying to the Springdale, so we'll scratch that off your reasons to go Canterwood.

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ECC detection


If you'd like to have a good read on ECC, the RAM forum can provide it.
Short and sweet: ECC creates more latency because it is looking for errors. If you just said you wanted maximum performance, and you now may need a feature that home users, INCLUDING ENTHUSIASTS, won't need because it lowers performance, then I do not see this as a reason, so we'll scratch that, and FAST!

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integrated SATA

Springdale offers the same.

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a small perf increase

If we assumed THG used the best of the best of each chipset, this is extremly debatable. Considering at the moment, the Asus P4P800 IS the best performer of all 865PE mainboards, then you can't go wrong, it is only 0.06% less performing than Canterwood Asus, which btw is ALSO at the top of the fighters.
Another very convincing reason for Springdale, is the MSI Neo, which overclocks by itself. So, not only do you get higher performance which negates Canterwood possible increases, but you pay LESS!

Sabbath, you are open minded and pretty intelligent because you think before you write, so I am asking you to look at it logically. I just DO NOT see Canterwood ATM as being any better.
Please think it over, and research a lot and make sure that your conclusion is that THG has the bad benchmarks, even when the test setups of different HW sites were very similar. And remember, the PAT benefits are likely to be weaker at 2.8 than 3, considering that low latency is more important at higher speeds. But that's a very minor issue and it's pointless, so ignore that. :wink:

--
If I could see the Matrix, I'd tell you I am only seeing 0s inside your head! :tongue:
May 22, 2003 10:31:37 PM

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This is applying to the Springdale, so we'll scratch that off your reasons to go Canterwood.

The reasoning that the P4 is a better product applies to Springdale as well, I was comparing it to the Athlon.

Quote:
If you'd like to have a good read on ECC, the RAM forum can provide it.
Short and sweet: ECC creates more latency because it is looking for errors. If you just said you wanted maximum performance, and you now may need a feature that home users, INCLUDING ENTHUSIASTS, won't need because it lowers performance, then I do not see this as a reason, so we'll scratch that, and FAST!

I won't use ECC now, but maybe in the future, for even better stability, this is only eventually though, and I wouldn't want any performance setback right now of any kind. But when I'm upgrading to Prescott or the like, ECC memory won't delete the perf advantage offered by Prescott, and it will add stability, so I might consider ECC by then. Also, I've heard that ECC is used in cache to "protect"? Protect from damage? Can ECC for main memory "protect" as well?

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Springdale offers the same.



Integrated SATA was also meant as comparing to my current AMD setup.

Quote:
If we assumed THG used the best of the best of each chipset, this is extremly debatable. Considering at the moment, the Asus P4P800 IS the best performer of all 865PE mainboards, then you can't go wrong, it is only 0.06% less performing than Canterwood Asus, which btw is ALSO at the top of the fighters.
Another very convincing reason for Springdale, is the MSI Neo, which overclocks by itself. So, not only do you get higher performance which negates Canterwood possible increases, but you pay LESS!

Sabbath, you are open minded and pretty intelligent because you think before you write, so I am asking you to look at it logically. I just DO NOT see Canterwood ATM as being any better.
Please think it over, and research a lot and make sure that your conclusion is that THG has the bad benchmarks, even when the test setups of different HW sites were very similar. And remember, the PAT benefits are likely to be weaker at 2.8 than 3, considering that low latency is more important at higher speeds. But that's a very minor issue and it's pointless, so ignore that.

Same thing here. A small performance increase with the 2.8 compared to the 3000+.

At THG, the Springdale is very much on par with the Canterwood, but on AnandTech, Tech-Report and Lost Circuits, the Canterwood pulls out anywhere from 0.1-10% perf increase. Reversely, at Hexus today, the Springdale was, for some incredible reason faster than Canterwood.

While the dynamic overclocking of the MSI may appeal to some, or many people, my plans was to run at stock speed, because I've had some issues with overclocking recently.

I sure will think it over. Also will think about maybe saving my money one more month and then go 3.2 GHz, to make a really big perf increase. But it's settled. I'll *definitely* go Canterwood/Springdale with at least 2.8 800 FSB P4 in the nearest weeks. That's a 100%.

Important But Silly Question: Will Springdale support Prescott and equally well?


My system: AMD Athlon XP 3000+ CPU / TwinMOS 1Gb DDR400 / Soltek 75FRN-RL /
Sapphire Radeon 9800 Pro / Antec True Power 550W / Maxtor 80Gb ATA-133 / Hercules GTXP SC /
Samsung DVD / Lite-On CDRW<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by sabbath1 on 05/22/03 07:11 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
May 23, 2003 2:58:59 AM

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I won't use ECC now, but maybe in the future, for even better stability, this is only eventually though, and I wouldn't want any performance setback right now of any kind. But when I'm upgrading to Prescott or the like, ECC memory won't delete the perf advantage offered by Prescott, and it will add stability, so I might consider ECC by then. Also, I've heard that ECC is used in cache to "protect"? Protect from damage? Can ECC for main memory "protect" as well?

I've never heard of protecting, but I can tell you that the stability thing is poor really, it's mainly used in the rendering and server stations, because they need the data correction. But everyone here runs their programs and everything well without ECC. I'm just saying that you're only adding a possibility that you shouldn't really think of. CAS 2, now I'd agree, but ECC? Hmm, best go ask the RAM forum for the better advice. I'm only here to give out some personal view.

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the Canterwood pulls out anywhere from 0.1-10% perf increase.

Can you find me where the biggest boosts came from, and are these relative to Springdale?

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my plans was to run at stock speed, because I've had some issues with overclocking recently.

The irony is, you're not overclocking, you won't need to. It's done by itself, which is why it's so magical by itself. No one is forcing you to risk, it will do it with assurance, so you're getting higher perf without knowing, ever!

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Will Springdale support Prescott and equally well?

It isn't silly, I also was wondering, but now that I read around, all sites I've seen, including THG Hard News, reported that since they are 800MHZ supported, they will support the 0.09m "New Processor from Intel", which of course will be Prescott, and likely to be until the Prescott Socket T.

I am interested in how your Intel switch will pan out, it's a very weird choice, to jump from a current high-end XP3000+. But when I look at the benches, the 3.2GHZ P4 will likely be more than 50% higher performing, and that is BIG!
And that Radeon 9800PRO, from Sapphire, WOW! I am most envious!

--
If I could see the Matrix, I'd tell you I am only seeing 0s inside your head! :tongue:
!