What´s the best for domestic use? amd vs intel

[vogue]

Hi ! First of all i would like to congratulate tom´s harware.com for being one of the most reliable sources of hardware information around with its great reviews.

I have a pIII 500 with 256 ram pc 100 and a chaintech geforce 4 ti4200, i know its old, i know it sux and i certainly know i need to buy something new. Im running w2k pro which is actually incredibly stable even with an old machine like this.
I´ve been "studying" some of the news and reviews on cpus, and i must confess i got even more confused because there are so many good options that i just can´t choose one without getting kinda pessimistic on what the result will be.
The thing is, i need a fast and stable machine which is able to run aplications fast and run every game around perfectly. My video card is so stuck in this machine..its kinda of a waste of quality.
I´ve been thinking of several options : amd 2.4, p4 2.53 or amd 2.6. For now, these are my only options because unfortunetly i can´t afford more than this.
But now comes the big question : which one will i choose ? I´ve heard the amd 2.4 was really great, but the p4 2.53 really leaves it behind in most of the benchmark tests. I´ve heard the amd 2.6 was really stable and fast but again, in some benchmark tests, the p4 2.53 beats it.
Following this logic, i would go for the p4 2.53, but a friend of mine told me the amd were more stable to run heavy applications.
This is why i am asking for your help, im really confused with this 3 options and every opinion of yours count.

Anyway, the rest of the configuration was : 512ddr pc400 and a seagate 80gb 7200rpm hard drive .The motherboard would depend on the cpu.

I was thinking that maybe you could give me some of your opinions and preferences on both matters ( the cpu and the complete configuration )

Sorry for the lousy english and thanks,.Have pacience with this newbie :]

cheers from lisbon, portugal.


<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by vogue on 04/25/03 08:18 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[vogue]

...please help here :|

 

[Teq]

If your criterion is "every game going" go with Intel. Most games are developed on Intel equipment and thus may not be optimized for AMD without patching.

Plus I think you will find the Intel based motherboards are more stable over the long term and require less tinkering to keep the system up to peak performance.




--->It ain't better if it don't work<---

 

[vacs]

but a friend of mine told me the amd were more stable to run heavy applications.

I call that a rumour.

Whether to choose an AMD or Intel CPU depends on what you want to do. Athlon's are faster in some tasks, P4s in others... there is no absolute performance king.

Games are on both CPUs equal fast, if you do 3dsmax, go for Intel, if you want to run heavy floating-point based programs, go for AMD...

 

[LtBlue14]

if you get an AMD processor, go with DDR333, not DDR400, unless you're going to overclock your processor to a 200mhz FSB
i think you'll be fine with any processor you choose, frankly. if you want to overclock, then get the P4 2.53ghz, and then we can talk about the rest (what Sspec to get, etc), but if you're not going to overclock, go with whatever.
how about going with the nforce2 chipset, the motherboard of your choice (A7N8X deluxe rev. 2 is good, but maybe overpriced for you), an athlon 2400+ or 2600+, and 2x256 DDR 333

<A HREF="http://www.planettribes.com/allyourbase/ayb2.swf" target="_new">411 UR 84$E R 8E10NG 2 U$</A>

 

[Spitfire_x86]

My recommendations-

CPU: Athlon XP 2600+ (333 MHz FSB)
Mobo: MSI K7N2 Delta-ILSR (if you can find it) or MSI K7N2G-ILSR
RAM: 2 x 256 MB Corsair XMS PC3200 CL2.0 DDR

nForce APU of nForce2 mobos (with MCP-T southbridge) is better than Audigy2 for gaming. Check "Sound can be hazardous for gamers" article of THG for confirmation. You can't get nForce APU in any Intel mobos.

----------------
<b><A HREF="http://geocities.com/spitfire_x86" target="_new"> My Website</A></b>

<b><A HREF="http://geocities.com/spitfire_x86/myrig.html" target="_new"> My Rig</A></b>

 

[Spitfire_x86]

If your criterion is "every game going" go with Intel. Most games are developed on Intel equipment and thus may not be optimized for AMD without patching.

If a game developer firm is nuts, then it will release a game without testing it AMD CPU's. Most gamers use AMD processors, game developers are aware of it.

Plus I think you will find the Intel based motherboards are more stable over the long term and require less tinkering to keep the system up to peak performance.

I don't understand the defination of "stability" to you. To have peak performance, equal effort is required for AMD and Intel systems. For top performance, you should run memory at fastest timings, both with AMD and Intel systems. You must optimize with BootVis to boot WinXP faster, regardless you have AMD or Intel CPU.

----------------
<b><A HREF="http://geocities.com/spitfire_x86" target="_new"> My Website</A></b>

<b><A HREF="http://geocities.com/spitfire_x86/myrig.html" target="_new"> My Rig</A></b>

 

[Teq]

Spitfire... now, don't go all fanboy on me... ok?

My definition of "stability" is "Long term error free operation".

My definition of "long term" is in months... not minutes.



--->It ain't better if it don't work<---

 

[phial]

i recommend AMD because you can build a system for quite a bit cheaper than a similar performing Intel box

but hey, if you got the money then get a nice Intel setup. they ARE somewhat comparable/faster once you get above 2.53ghz i find

-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-

<A HREF="http://www.xgr.com" target="_new">XGR-Game Reviews</A>

<b>Sevendust is my new pet troll ahah</b>
"You change the channel, and you change our minds..." - System of a Down

 

[vogue]

As for the cpu, i made up my mind thanks to you guys :] I´m going for the p4 2.53 because you ( as well as most of the tests i´ve seen ) agreed that it is a right choice (between those options) when it comes to stability and performance.
But what about the ram memory? Some people advised me not to buy pc400..why? Honestly, im not that worried as long as i get at least 512mb, but i want to buy the best ddr around, why the 333 instead of the 400 ?
As for the mobo, a computer technician i know told me to buy the Soltek SL-85DR3-R because, besides the low price ( 131€, almost the same in us dollars ), it is one of the most stable platforms around. What do you think ? I´m kinda of an ignorant in motherboard matters :\

i know there´s another forum for this subject, but it would be tiring to explain my situation all over again :]

anyway, i wanna thank all of you for your help and patience :]

 

[Mephistopheles]

What do <i>you</i> mean when you talk about stability? I read the word, but apparently you´re only talking and thinking "performance"... Look at it:

I don't understand the defination of "stability" to you. To have peak performance, equal effort is required for AMD and Intel systems. For top performance, you should run memory at fastest timings, both with AMD and Intel systems. You must optimize with BootVis to boot WinXP faster, regardless you have AMD or Intel CPU.

The only thing that has anything at all to do with stability in what you said is the word "stability"... Didn´t get that...

 

[Mephistopheles]

I think the 2.53Ghz is a very good choice... Really. It´ll perform very well.

As to the motherboard, well, the SL-85DR3-R has good specs... I´m not really familiar with it, though. It should be a good performer. If you had some more money, you could get a Springdale-based (i865) motherboard... That would be more upgradeable and perform excellently. It would support 800Mhz FSB processors (and maybe even Prescotts, the next-gen P4s which´ll scale to 4Ghz and beyond), but you´d only be using a 2.53Ghz, 533Mhz-FSB P4 in it (no problem, but you´d have a LOT of room to upgrade). Springdale also offers the latest in tech - like AGP 8x if needed, Serial ATA support, and dual-channel DDR400. The main disadvantage is that Springdale-based mobos are just coming to the market now. So you may have to wait a couple of weeks... Just my opinion here, of course.

<i>I checked, and apparently, it looks as if i865-based mobos will be widely available at around US$100 soon, not much more. The SL-85DR3-R, according to pricewatch, starts at US$83 or something... I´d wait a little for a good i865 offer and go that way.</i><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Mephistopheles on 04/25/03 02:35 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[LtBlue14]

it was i who recommended you not get DDR400 IF you went for an AMD chip, or if you were going dual channel with the P4. however, if you pick the solteck board (and consequently its 845PE chipset) then get the DDR400

<A HREF="http://www.planettribes.com/allyourbase/ayb2.swf" target="_new">411 UR 84$E R 8E10NG 2 U$</A>

 

[Teq]

333DDR instead of 400 to save you a few bucks by not buying speed you won't use unless you go overclocking the thing.

I don't know a lot about Soltec motherboards, but I've always had very good luck with Intel, Gigabyte and Asus (in that order).


--->It ain't better if it don't work<---

 

[Mephistopheles]

Yes, LtBlue14 is right! And if you by any chance consider waiting for Springdale, get two sticks of DDR333 with the 2.53Ghz (I think i865 can´t handle 533Mhz FSB and dual DDR400... no point in doing so, anyway).

 

[Prof133]

If you had some more money, you could get a Springdale-based (i865) motherboard... That would be more upgradeable and perform excellently. It would support 800Mhz FSB processors (and maybe even Prescotts, the next-gen P4s which´ll scale to 4Ghz and beyond), but you´d only be using a 2.53Ghz, 533Mhz-FSB P4 in it (no problem, but you´d have a LOT of room to upgrade).

Some of the prescotts will be socket 478 so todays intel mobos will support them but won't the later Prescotts - the fastest ones - require a new socket? I believe it is called socket T. What's the latest word on that?

 

[vogue]

one final question, let´s suppose i dont buy the new machine now and i buy it by june/july ( which is the most probable situation :| ). Will the p4 2.53 be kinda out dated ? will the 2.8 and 3.0 intel processors price come down more or less to the 2.53 level ? I know things in the hardware world happen pretty fast.

thanks again for your help u guys rule

 

[Mephistopheles]

I haven´t really heard of a socket T before... What I do know is that Prescott will use - at the very least initially - the old socket 478. And I wasn´t aware of any change in socket for prescott, only the change in Tejas, which´ll use a <A HREF="http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,900185,00.asp" target="_new">775-contact pinless Land Grid Array (LGA)</A> (follow the link for lots of interesting info). If anyone else has more on that, I´d also like to know it.

 

[Mephistopheles]

All the things you mentioned are highly likely. The prices of 2.4C, 2.6C, 2.8C and 3.0C P4´s should all come down when the 3.2C is introduced... and maybe more, later on. And the 2.53Ghz, 533Mhz-FSB will be kinda out dated, indeed, because you´ll habe 2.4C´s and 2.6C´s...

BTW, excellent alternative. If you buy your machine by june/july, you´ll probably get a healthy alternative from Intel with 800Mhz-FSB processors for a reasonable price(between 2.4 and 3.0Ghz, I´d say), and still get all benefits from the i865 or i875 chipsets.

 

[Prof133]

I dug up <A HREF="http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=8027" target="_new">this article</A>. Not sure how accurate it is:

PRESCOTT AND TEJAS microprocessors next year will use LGA 775 pinouts, with samples of CPU and chipsets available in the second half of 2003, for launch in the first half of 2004, as we revealed earlier today.

The name of this new pin design is Socket T, and during the second quarter of this year Intel will introduce thermal mechanical samples, and tools for the product. Samples of the chips themselves will start surfacing in the third quarter of this year.

 

[Spitfire_x86]

My AMD system is not a bit less stable than systems. I don't have high quality PSU and RAM, but it's still stable. I use 300W generic PSU and 1 x Kingston and 1 x Generic DDR modules at 2.0-2-2-6, no trouble so far. And I don't use comps. for 5 to 10 minutes per session.

----------------
<b><A HREF="http://geocities.com/spitfire_x86" target="_new"> My Website</A></b>

<b><A HREF="http://geocities.com/spitfire_x86/myrig.html" target="_new"> My Rig</A></b>

 

[Mephistopheles]

Hm... It´s a small mess around here, apparenty. The link I posted earlier reports the prescott as being socket-478:

Tejas uses a 775-contact pinless Land Grid Array (LGA) that far exceeds the 478 pins used on the Pentium 4, and Prescott. However, the additional pins were required for the additional I/O and power requirements of Tejas, the documents say.

But then, the Inquirer doesn´t even mention that prescott will use socket 478 - not even a hint of it, like "prescott will be launched using 478, and will move to socket-T later on"...

Trying to figure it out here... The strangest thing is that both articles were written at the same date: 27th February... Maybe the guys at Intel actually didn´t express themselves clearly... Who knows?

 

[Teq]

This is getting tiresome...

Ok, you like AMD... Got it.

Next topic please.


--->It ain't better if it don't work<---

 

[vk2amv]

This is getting tiresome...

Ok, you like Intel... Got it.

Next topic please............



You know you really have to get over your intel fanboyish attitude and your unfounded AMD bashing. Just because you dont seem to be able to set up a stable AMD system to last years on end doesnt mean its AMD`s fault. The T-Birds were hot CPU`s yes but it is easy to set them up to last and last and last maintenance free. I can do it easy. Pleanty of other people I know can do it easy. Pleanty of n00b`s I know can do it even. You seem to be the only person on this forum that cant set up a stable long lasting AMD system for some reason. I for one am sick of your unfounded AMD bashing and I also know at least one other person told you they are sick of it and I am sure there are more people I am not aware about are sick of your fan boy attitude. If you want to talk about heat why dont we talk about how the 3.06 P4 is hotter than the 1.4gig T-Bird then. You conviently ignore that in any other threads when you talk about heat. You point out that AMD CPU`s are hot but you dont point out that intel CPU`s are infact hotter at equilivent speeds against the T-Bred B`s. And you ignore that they have the honour for the hottest CPU. The 3.06gighz HT P4. You also ignore pleanty of other things that is not in intels favour. I am able to see when intel has something better and I will give credit where due. You are only interestered in something if it is credit for intel. As I said get rid of this fanboish attitude you have regarding intel.
AREA_51

'It's only when you look at an ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames'

 

[vk2amv]

I suggest you have a rread of this thred. http://discuss.futuremark.com/forum/showflat.pl?Board=techmobocpu&Number=2090272
It has some very informative info about the heat output of intel CPU`s. It is intel that has a heat generation problem not AMD.
AREA_51

'It's only when you look at an ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames'