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What´s the best for domestic use? amd vs intel

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April 25, 2003 9:39:26 AM

Hi ! First of all i would like to congratulate tom´s harware.com for being one of the most reliable sources of hardware information around with its great reviews.

I have a pIII 500 with 256 ram pc 100 and a chaintech geforce 4 ti4200, i know its old, i know it sux and i certainly know i need to buy something new. Im running w2k pro which is actually incredibly stable even with an old machine like this.
I´ve been "studying" some of the news and reviews on cpus, and i must confess i got even more confused because there are so many good options that i just can´t choose one without getting kinda pessimistic on what the result will be.
The thing is, i need a fast and stable machine which is able to run aplications fast and run every game around perfectly. My video card is so stuck in this machine..its kinda of a waste of quality.
I´ve been thinking of several options : amd 2.4, p4 2.53 or amd 2.6. For now, these are my only options because unfortunetly i can´t afford more than this.
But now comes the big question : which one will i choose ? I´ve heard the amd 2.4 was really great, but the p4 2.53 really leaves it behind in most of the benchmark tests. I´ve heard the amd 2.6 was really stable and fast but again, in some benchmark tests, the p4 2.53 beats it.
Following this logic, i would go for the p4 2.53, but a friend of mine told me the amd were more stable to run heavy applications.
This is why i am asking for your help, im really confused with this 3 options and every opinion of yours count.

Anyway, the rest of the configuration was : 512ddr pc400 and a seagate 80gb 7200rpm hard drive .The motherboard would depend on the cpu.

I was thinking that maybe you could give me some of your opinions and preferences on both matters ( the cpu and the complete configuration )

Sorry for the lousy english and thanks,.Have pacience with this newbie :]

cheers from lisbon, portugal.


<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by vogue on 04/25/03 08:18 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
April 25, 2003 2:13:07 PM

...please help here :|
April 25, 2003 2:29:19 PM

If your criterion is "every game going" go with Intel. Most games are developed on Intel equipment and thus may not be optimized for AMD without patching.

Plus I think you will find the Intel based motherboards are more stable over the long term and require less tinkering to keep the system up to peak performance.




--->It ain't better if it don't work<---
Related resources
April 25, 2003 2:36:06 PM

Quote:
but a friend of mine told me the amd were more stable to run heavy applications.

I call that a rumour.

Whether to choose an AMD or Intel CPU depends on what you want to do. Athlon's are faster in some tasks, P4s in others... there is no absolute performance king.

Games are on both CPUs equal fast, if you do 3dsmax, go for Intel, if you want to run heavy floating-point based programs, go for AMD...
April 25, 2003 3:40:20 PM

if you get an AMD processor, go with DDR333, not DDR400, unless you're going to overclock your processor to a 200mhz FSB
i think you'll be fine with any processor you choose, frankly. if you want to overclock, then get the P4 2.53ghz, and then we can talk about the rest (what Sspec to get, etc), but if you're not going to overclock, go with whatever.
how about going with the nforce2 chipset, the motherboard of your choice (A7N8X deluxe rev. 2 is good, but maybe overpriced for you), an athlon 2400+ or 2600+, and 2x256 DDR 333

<A HREF="http://www.planettribes.com/allyourbase/ayb2.swf" target="_new">411 UR 84$E R 8E10NG 2 U$</A>
April 25, 2003 3:55:10 PM

My recommendations-

CPU: Athlon XP 2600+ (333 MHz FSB)
Mobo: MSI K7N2 Delta-ILSR (if you can find it) or MSI K7N2G-ILSR
RAM: 2 x 256 MB Corsair XMS PC3200 CL2.0 DDR

nForce APU of nForce2 mobos (with MCP-T southbridge) is better than Audigy2 for gaming. Check "Sound can be hazardous for gamers" article of THG for confirmation. You can't get nForce APU in any Intel mobos.

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April 25, 2003 3:55:41 PM

Quote:
If your criterion is "every game going" go with Intel. Most games are developed on Intel equipment and thus may not be optimized for AMD without patching.

If a game developer firm is nuts, then it will release a game without testing it AMD CPU's. Most gamers use AMD processors, game developers are aware of it.

Quote:
Plus I think you will find the Intel based motherboards are more stable over the long term and require less tinkering to keep the system up to peak performance.

I don't understand the defination of "stability" to you. To have peak performance, equal effort is required for AMD and Intel systems. For top performance, you should run memory at fastest timings, both with AMD and Intel systems. You must optimize with BootVis to boot WinXP faster, regardless you have AMD or Intel CPU.

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April 25, 2003 5:57:53 PM

Spitfire... now, don't go all fanboy on me... ok?

My definition of "stability" is "Long term error free operation".

My definition of "long term" is in months... not minutes.



--->It ain't better if it don't work<---
April 25, 2003 5:59:54 PM

i recommend AMD because you can build a system for quite a bit cheaper than a similar performing Intel box

but hey, if you got the money then get a nice Intel setup. they ARE somewhat comparable/faster once you get above 2.53ghz i find

-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-

<A HREF="http://www.xgr.com" target="_new">XGR-Game Reviews</A>

<b>Sevendust is my new pet troll ahah</b>
"You change the channel, and you change our minds..." - System of a Down
April 25, 2003 6:13:04 PM

As for the cpu, i made up my mind thanks to you guys :] I´m going for the p4 2.53 because you ( as well as most of the tests i´ve seen ) agreed that it is a right choice (between those options) when it comes to stability and performance.
But what about the ram memory? Some people advised me not to buy pc400..why? Honestly, im not that worried as long as i get at least 512mb, but i want to buy the best ddr around, why the 333 instead of the 400 ?
As for the mobo, a computer technician i know told me to buy the Soltek SL-85DR3-R because, besides the low price ( 131€, almost the same in us dollars ), it is one of the most stable platforms around. What do you think ? I´m kinda of an ignorant in motherboard matters :\

i know there´s another forum for this subject, but it would be tiring to explain my situation all over again :]

anyway, i wanna thank all of you for your help and patience :]
April 25, 2003 6:15:08 PM

What do <i>you</i> mean when you talk about stability? I read the word, but apparently you´re only talking and thinking "performance"... Look at it:
Quote:
I don't understand the defination of "stability" to you. To have peak performance, equal effort is required for AMD and Intel systems. For top performance, you should run memory at fastest timings, both with AMD and Intel systems. You must optimize with BootVis to boot WinXP faster, regardless you have AMD or Intel CPU.

The only thing that has anything at all to do with stability in what you said is the word "stability"... Didn´t get that...
April 25, 2003 6:29:25 PM

I think the 2.53Ghz is a very good choice... Really. It´ll perform very well.

As to the motherboard, well, the SL-85DR3-R has good specs... I´m not really familiar with it, though. It should be a good performer. If you had some more money, you could get a Springdale-based (i865) motherboard... That would be more upgradeable and perform excellently. It would support 800Mhz FSB processors (and maybe even Prescotts, the next-gen P4s which´ll scale to 4Ghz and beyond), but you´d only be using a 2.53Ghz, 533Mhz-FSB P4 in it (no problem, but you´d have a LOT of room to upgrade). Springdale also offers the latest in tech - like AGP 8x if needed, Serial ATA support, and dual-channel DDR400. The main disadvantage is that Springdale-based mobos are just coming to the market now. So you may have to wait a couple of weeks... Just my opinion here, of course.

<i>I checked, and apparently, it looks as if i865-based mobos will be widely available at around US$100 soon, not much more. The SL-85DR3-R, according to pricewatch, starts at US$83 or something... I´d wait a little for a good i865 offer and go that way.</i><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Mephistopheles on 04/25/03 02:35 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
April 25, 2003 6:42:08 PM

it was i who recommended you not get DDR400 IF you went for an AMD chip, or if you were going dual channel with the P4. however, if you pick the solteck board (and consequently its 845PE chipset) then get the DDR400

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April 25, 2003 6:42:53 PM

333DDR instead of 400 to save you a few bucks by not buying speed you won't use unless you go overclocking the thing.

I don't know a lot about Soltec motherboards, but I've always had very good luck with Intel, Gigabyte and Asus (in that order).


--->It ain't better if it don't work<---
April 25, 2003 6:45:11 PM

Yes, LtBlue14 is right! And if you by any chance consider waiting for Springdale, get two sticks of DDR333 with the 2.53Ghz (I think i865 can´t handle 533Mhz FSB and dual DDR400... no point in doing so, anyway).
April 25, 2003 6:51:08 PM

Quote:
If you had some more money, you could get a Springdale-based (i865) motherboard... That would be more upgradeable and perform excellently. It would support 800Mhz FSB processors (and maybe even Prescotts, the next-gen P4s which´ll scale to 4Ghz and beyond), but you´d only be using a 2.53Ghz, 533Mhz-FSB P4 in it (no problem, but you´d have a LOT of room to upgrade).

Some of the prescotts will be socket 478 so todays intel mobos will support them but won't the later Prescotts - the fastest ones - require a new socket? I believe it is called socket T. What's the latest word on that?
April 25, 2003 8:29:00 PM

one final question, let´s suppose i dont buy the new machine now and i buy it by june/july ( which is the most probable situation :| ). Will the p4 2.53 be kinda out dated ? will the 2.8 and 3.0 intel processors price come down more or less to the 2.53 level ? I know things in the hardware world happen pretty fast.

thanks again for your help :)  u guys rule :D 
April 25, 2003 10:17:30 PM

I haven´t really heard of a socket T before... What I do know is that Prescott will use - at the very least initially - the old socket 478. And I wasn´t aware of any change in socket for prescott, only the change in Tejas, which´ll use a <A HREF="http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,900185,00.as..." target="_new">775-contact pinless Land Grid Array (LGA)</A> (follow the link for lots of interesting info). If anyone else has more on that, I´d also like to know it.
April 25, 2003 10:24:12 PM

All the things you mentioned are highly likely. The prices of 2.4C, 2.6C, 2.8C and 3.0C P4´s should all come down when the 3.2C is introduced... and maybe more, later on. And the 2.53Ghz, 533Mhz-FSB will be kinda out dated, indeed, because you´ll habe 2.4C´s and 2.6C´s...

BTW, excellent alternative. If you buy your machine by june/july, you´ll probably get a healthy alternative from Intel with 800Mhz-FSB processors for a reasonable price(between 2.4 and 3.0Ghz, I´d say), and still get all benefits from the i865 or i875 chipsets.
April 25, 2003 10:25:56 PM

I dug up <A HREF="http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=8027" target="_new">this article</A>. Not sure how accurate it is:

Quote:
PRESCOTT AND TEJAS microprocessors next year will use LGA 775 pinouts, with samples of CPU and chipsets available in the second half of 2003, for launch in the first half of 2004, as we revealed earlier today.

The name of this new pin design is Socket T, and during the second quarter of this year Intel will introduce thermal mechanical samples, and tools for the product. Samples of the chips themselves will start surfacing in the third quarter of this year.

April 26, 2003 12:48:00 AM

My AMD system is not a bit less stable than systems. I don't have high quality PSU and RAM, but it's still stable. I use 300W generic PSU and 1 x Kingston and 1 x Generic DDR modules at 2.0-2-2-6, no trouble so far. And I don't use comps. for 5 to 10 minutes per session.

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April 26, 2003 1:12:39 AM

Hm... It´s a small mess around here, apparenty. The link I posted earlier reports the prescott as being socket-478:
Quote:
Tejas uses a 775-contact pinless Land Grid Array (LGA) that far exceeds the 478 pins used on the Pentium 4, and Prescott. However, the additional pins were required for the additional I/O and power requirements of Tejas, the documents say.

But then, the Inquirer doesn´t even mention that prescott will use socket 478 - not even a hint of it, like "prescott will be launched using 478, and will move to socket-T later on"...

Trying to figure it out here... The strangest thing is that both articles were written at the same date: 27th February... Maybe the guys at Intel actually didn´t express themselves clearly... Who knows?
April 26, 2003 2:40:23 AM

This is getting tiresome...

Ok, you like AMD... Got it.

Next topic please.


--->It ain't better if it don't work<---
April 26, 2003 11:06:48 AM

This is getting tiresome...

Ok, you like Intel... Got it.

Next topic please............



You know you really have to get over your intel fanboyish attitude and your unfounded AMD bashing. Just because you dont seem to be able to set up a stable AMD system to last years on end doesnt mean its AMD`s fault. The T-Birds were hot CPU`s yes but it is easy to set them up to last and last and last maintenance free. I can do it easy. Pleanty of other people I know can do it easy. Pleanty of n00b`s I know can do it even. You seem to be the only person on this forum that cant set up a stable long lasting AMD system for some reason. I for one am sick of your unfounded AMD bashing and I also know at least one other person told you they are sick of it and I am sure there are more people I am not aware about are sick of your fan boy attitude. If you want to talk about heat why dont we talk about how the 3.06 P4 is hotter than the 1.4gig T-Bird then. You conviently ignore that in any other threads when you talk about heat. You point out that AMD CPU`s are hot but you dont point out that intel CPU`s are infact hotter at equilivent speeds against the T-Bred B`s. And you ignore that they have the honour for the hottest CPU. The 3.06gighz HT P4. You also ignore pleanty of other things that is not in intels favour. I am able to see when intel has something better and I will give credit where due. You are only interestered in something if it is credit for intel. As I said get rid of this fanboish attitude you have regarding intel.
AREA_51

'It's only when you look at an ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames'
April 26, 2003 11:11:14 AM

I suggest you have a rread of this thred. http://discuss.futuremark.com/forum/showflat.pl?Board=t...
It has some very informative info about the heat output of intel CPU`s. It is intel that has a heat generation problem not AMD.
AREA_51

'It's only when you look at an ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames'
April 26, 2003 12:37:18 PM

Quote:
Just because you dont seem to be able to set up a stable AMD system to last years on end doesnt mean its AMD`s fault.

Let´s not get started on that topic again, please! We´ve had this discussion a thousand times before - and apparently got nowhere, 'cause it keeps coming back...
April 26, 2003 1:18:48 PM

Ahh auctaly Teq and I have started this conversation only once. And it was only short because I called a stop to it as I still had a tiny bit of respect for teq at the time and I wasnt interestered in an argument then either as I was just too tired myself to put up a proper argument. But the reason I am on about it now is I am just absolutly SICK AND TIRED of teq`s fanboy attitude. Now I may not like you too much Mephistopheles and you clearly intel biased but even you can give AMD praise when approperiate and for that I have a professional respect for you. (something which I no longer have for teq) And you dont go on and on about the exact same thing especialy when it is not relivent anyway. You dont go blaming AMD CPU`s if you cant get it to run stabily on a VIA KT133 chipset board. Something everyone knows is a fact. Or if the CPU runs hot because you didnt/cant put the heatsink on properly. (That is not an insult to you it is JUST an example. I know you are perfectly capable of putting on a HSF. :-) But what I am on about is teq cant seem to put on a heatsink properly then he goes and blames AMD for it. He talks about imperfection in the AMD core heights or that they are not smooth or about the rubber pads but he ignores that they seem to work fine for basicaly everyone else who has had an AMD CPU. He just goes and blames the AMD CPU. That is what I am on about now.
AREA_51

'It's only when you look at an ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames'
April 26, 2003 4:50:27 PM

There are two ways to look at this problem.

1) How much performance do you want- look for the minimal system in both that gets you that performance, go with the better priced (usually), you may want to take into account upgradeability.

2) How much do you have to spend: make the best system you can for the price with each, and see which will have the better performance.

Athlon XP 1600+, MSI K7T PRO2 RU (POS), 2x256 MB CRUCIAL PC2100 CL2.5 memory, Asus V6800 DDR Delux (GF 256) video card, 6.4GB+27GB WD HD, 40GB IBM HD (all 7200RPM). My computer is an acronym
April 26, 2003 5:14:16 PM

Quote:

Let´s not get started on that topic again, please! We´ve had this discussion a thousand times before - and apparently got nowhere, 'cause it keeps coming back...

I'm with you....

This is lunacy. People flaming one another over the discussion of a technical problem? Exactly how childish can they get??

To rip into someone's skills because they discuss a problem with a certain piece of elctronics is <b>STUPID</b>. It's the very antithisis of how progress is made. We learn and develope new techniques from the discussion of problems, not by getting pissed off when someone says your favorite toy is less than perfect.

Someone tried to tell me that Intel has a heat problem and AMD does not, that's just silly... the truth is <i>neither</i> of them do. CPUs produce heat and that heat has to be gotten rid of somehow... As it turns out Intel does a better job of that then AMD does, and as it turns out the problem is purely mechanical. As I've already pointed out, the machines were being roughly treated and I have a solution for the problem and now have those systems running nice and stable.

So what do I get... Thanked for working on it and providing an answer? While my customers are certainly glad of it, all I get here is a bunch of pissy pants fanboys flaming my ass for daring to find fault with their pet projects... and it wasn't even <i>their</i> machines I was talking about!

Really... get a clue people... These are computers, inanimate hunks of plastic and metal, machines designed to do a certain job. Yet here you are acting like I've just insulted your mothers... <b>GROW UP</b> already!



--->It ain't better if it don't work<---
April 26, 2003 6:10:16 PM

hehe nicely put! Its about time someone talked a bit of sense on here...
April 26, 2003 9:50:14 PM

so true teq...the problem is that the computer and consequently the computer world are a refuge for some people (not refering to anyone here really) because those guys are absolutely lifeless. Therefore they feel like the only success they can achieve is making their opinions and theories heard and respected in a virtual world..which is really sad :|

i better wait a couple of months to buy an 2.8 or 3.0 intel cuz i think it´ll worth the wait. Anyway, i now have a much better ideia about the most valuable options available.Cause of that i wanna thank all of you guys who helped me out, u´ve been really great..thanks a lot

ps: special thx to mephistopheles ;]

Have you ever laughed, ´til you cried ?
April 26, 2003 11:39:36 PM

Hey the P4's a dandy choice. Hope you enjoy it... and sorry about the fireworks... these 2 machine fanboy types really get under my skin sometimes.


--->It ain't better if it don't work<---
April 27, 2003 1:29:14 AM

Oh, and I just remembered that if you do wait for the 2.8 or 3.0Ghz with 800Mhz FSB, you´ll get Hyperthreading as a bonus... Not bad, huh? :smile:

Hope you enjoy your new system. I´m planning on doing a similar upgrade myself... it´s a pity that we actually have to wait a few months. But hey, good things are supposed to happen to those who wait, right?

Just one more small thing... <i>Lisboa, certo? Saudações do Brasil para alguém de Portugal!</i><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Mephistopheles on 04/26/03 09:33 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
April 27, 2003 5:08:55 AM

well, if youre buying now i personally think youd get more for your money with an AMD 2600 as opposed to the 2.53 p4, the overall system would be much cheaper

but, if your computer takes a lot of abuse, bumping dropping, long car rides frequently intel might be the better choice

if you plan to wait a few months? who knows? ive changed my mind many times the last months overthe exact same cpus, so you'll just have to wait and see whats around when you buy

also, do lots of research, you'll find yourself changing your mind all the time

"Going to war without France is like going hunting without an accordion."
- Gen. (Ret) Norman Schwartzkopf
April 27, 2003 8:47:03 AM

everyone just backs up the person with the most intelligent sounding arguement, not weather or not its true....

but anways.



good choice on teh 2.53. its a very fast CPU.
next~

-------

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<b>Sevendust is my new pet troll ahah</b>
"You change the channel, and you change our minds..." - System of a Down
April 27, 2003 8:49:10 AM

Ohh hit a nerve did I? Yes I do question your skills and yes I still believe you are a fanboy and yes I have no respect whatsoever for you. As I pointed out you seem to be the only person here that has any of these so called mechanical problems with AMD CPU`s. That is the point that keeps coming up. You need to get off your pedistall and read facts. Facts that seem to point out that you are just incapable of putting on a heat sink properly unless it is completly idiot proof. In fact this is the FIRST time you have said a good word about AMD. And it as backhanded at that. But it was an admission that AMD CPU`s are stable. The first you have made.
AREA_51

'It's only when you look at an ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames'
April 27, 2003 11:02:33 AM

Oh PULLLEEESE... stop acting the perfect idiot.

Now you're just trying to pick a fight and I bet you don't even know why.



--->It ain't better if it don't work<---
April 27, 2003 12:18:06 PM

Yes I AM trying to pick a fight. WITH YOU ONLY. I have had your crap and I am now going to challange you. You can either accept the challenge or run away.
AREA_51

'It's only when you look at an ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames'
April 27, 2003 1:58:47 PM

my advice is as follows..

amd xp1700 (BUT it has to have something like this on the cpu, so ask before you buy... JIUHB DLT3C
this means it will run at 1.5volts and it will be very overclockable. the 6 digits on the end of the cpu say what it was meant to be, for example mine was 260084, which means it would meant to be running at xp2600 speeds and was number 84th in the run.. apparently the first 300 are the best.. im unsure of this..
get any DECENT nforce 2 board, i wouldnt recommend MSI as i have heard of someone catching on fire.. not a good thing. go with abits rev 2 nf7s (or whatever the model) or an epox 8RDA+ board, both are excellent for overclocking, which is what you will need..
get DECENT memory for the overclocking.. unless you are going to go over 200fsb, you wont need corsairs 3500 stuff, the normal ddr400 or pc3200 will do, but get something like geil (cheap but good) and make sure you get 2 dimms rather than one, so then you can use the dual ddr in sync, as it increases performance by 5 to 10% im told)..
with your geforce 4 ti 4200 i imagine you will be able to get easly 12000 3dmarks in 2001se, as im getting 9302 with my g3 ti 200 sparkle card..

amds are cheap, effiecent and are probably the best for most things.. cpus like this are worth the money as they are worth more than what they where meant to be and due to their lower cpu voltage, you can overclock them higher again.. some people have managed a 100% overclock on a 1.4ghz cpu. now that is something that i can call impressive..


If it blows up? Opps.... I must have been doing something wrong
April 27, 2003 5:42:45 PM

Or... far more likely, you'll just end up being ignored.

Really... all you're going to do is make a complete ass of yourself.


--->It ain't better if it don't work<---
April 27, 2003 8:01:02 PM

Considering that Teq is helpful, has given a <i>ton</i> of free advice, can admit when he's wrong, and is generally courteous, I find it hard to understand your hatred for him. Is it really that difficult for you to cope with a conflicting viewpoint? Have you really staked your own personal happiness so thoroughly around forcing everyone's stated allegiance to AMD? Are you really so personally vested in evangelizing the AMD gospel that you will not feel personally fulfilled until you divide this forum into the "AMD Fanboys" vs. "Intel Fanboys?" Why is it necessary to take sides?

Well it isn't going to work. There are some of us who are in the middle, and we will buy whichever product works best for us at any given time. I realize this probably doesn't sit well with someone like you, who has embarked upon a personal AMD crusade, but that's just the way it is. I'm beginning to understand why so many people hold AMD fanboys in contempt. You're just like Linux fanboys, and Apple fanboys, and Amiga fanboys, Nvidia Fanboys, and ATI fanboys, and so many others who came before you who are so blinded by passion for or against a particular product or manufacturer that they begin to manifest a cult mentality. Really, I'm embarassed for you and those of your ilk.

It sounds to me like you need to find a religion or something else where your level of zeal and your desire to worship might actually be appropriate.

<font color=green>The Netherlands is where you go when you're too good for heaven.</font color=green> :tongue:
April 27, 2003 8:10:16 PM

Ok then put it in another perspective. We all know intel CPU`s are ineffecient compared to AMD. Now is it a valid point in an argument? Say I kept telling everyone how bad intel is because AMD has higher IPC. Now if I did that all the time when there is a CPU question like teq does what would you say then? It is the exact same thing. Teq isnt the worst fanboy on this frum in my opinion though. I think juin is far worse. But the point is is teq needs to realise when he is just overdoing a point. I dont have any hatred for him but I dont have respect for him at the moment either. He needs to learn when something is not relivent to a conversation.
AREA_51

'It's only when you look at an ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames'
April 27, 2003 10:39:41 PM

Quote:
He needs to learn when something is not relivent to a conversation.

It´s you who need to know when something is not relevant. When you say "I want to pick a fight with you. You can either run or face it", then that´s a pointlessly agressive remark that doesn´t say anything, and most certainly doesn´t belong to a forum of well-educated people willing to discuss hardware.

Now I am not, in your terms and in your view of the world, trying to pick a fight with you. I´m just saying to take it easy, that´s all. And I respect everyone around here, even if they don´t deserve it from my perspective (and I´m <i>not</i> saying <i>you</i> don´t).

Didn´t you say it was <i>you</i> who put a stop to this very same line of discussion previously? If that is true, then this is the point were you should do so again. Nothing good can come out of this.

Therefore: <i>Take it easy!</i> :smile: <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Mephistopheles on 04/27/03 06:51 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
!