Will a 144hz monitor look better at sub 100fps? (+High Fps looking like it's below 60fps, can't figure it out)

[benwinwood6]

I've been having a problem for ages on two different gpu's where 70-110 fps looks like it's sub 60fps. Capping at 60-70 looks fine as does anything over 120fps. Since nobody here on Reddit or anywhere else could help me solve my problem, I'm looking to get a new monitor.

Does a 144hz display monitor still display 90-140hz well. As in, will I need hardware capable of displaying above 144fps constantly to benefit or will everything below look good too?

 

[jdog2pt0]

Were you running 70-110 FPS on a monitor that didn't support those frame rates (e.g. a 60Hz monitor?). It's all about syncing up the frames between the GPU and the screen. The greater the difference between the framerate, and the refresh rate of the monitor, the worse the image will look (choppyness, tearing, etc)...to a degree. For example, 60 FPS synced up to a monitor running at 120Hz (1/2) would look okay. But yes, I do believe a 144Hz monitor would improve your image quality at those framerates (if you're using a 60Hz monitor chances are it's older and that comes with other problems too.) Just get a quality one, refresh rate isn't everything in a screen...

 

[SkyNetRising]

I've been having a problem for ages on two different gpu's where 70-110 fps looks like it's sub 60fps.

What are model names of those GPUs?
You're probably using vsync. When fps goes below monitor refresh rate, you get fps at half refresh rate.
Either turn on adaptive vsync (if Nvidia GPU) or turn off vsync.

 

[photonboy]

Hi,
You need to explain what you mean by "70-110 fps looks like it's sub 60fps" as that's confusing.

Does the DESKTOP work fine but games feel sluggish?

If so I suspect you're running with VSYNC ON but unable to actually output 144FPS from the graphics card. There's a few solutions to this then:

1. VSYNC OFF
- VSYNC ON only helps eliminate screen TEARING. However it causes stutter when the FPS (GPU) and Hz (Monitor) don't match.
- Screen tear though is less as the Hz/FPS ratio increases. So try turning VSYNC OFF and see how that goes.
- 50FPS for example on 144Hz monitor probably won't show much screen tear (might be a good FPS for GTA5)
- I'd probably still CAP the FPS for the game to get a more consistent experience

2. Adaptive VSYNC Half Refresh (NVidia... AMD has similar but not sure how).
- caps the FPS at 72FPS (for 144Hz monitor) so same frame is drawn twice
- VSYNC is thus ON so no screen tearing
- VSYNC is auto turned OFF if you can't hit 72FPS output
*In this case I'd tweak game settings so you hit 72FPS about 90% of the time (10% of time any drops just show screen tearing). Depends on game how obvious screen tearing is.

Confirm the FPS is correct with FRAPS or Steam in-game counter.

Other:
Hardware to show 144FPS always?
Must be games. There is NOTHING that exists that can display a demanding game at a solid 144FPS at 1080p or higher. And there are many games that the CPU would be a bottleneck (even an i7-8700K) and unable to hit 144FPS.

My GTX1080 can't maintain 60FPS at highest settings in several games. Such as Rise of the Tomb Raider (at 2560x1440).

Summary:
Experiment with:
a) VSYNC OFF, or
b) Adaptive VSYNC Half Refresh

I don't know about AMD's software but I did have RadeonPro working to do "Dynamic VSYNC Half Refresh" exactly like the NVidia version.

 

[boju]

Been eyeing on this post for a bit but couldn't find a way to answer. Was actually hoping photonboy would come a long and explain coz i liked his magazine page analogy on split frames lol.

But thought id respond now because i have the feeling the op was misunderstood.

He has a 60hz screen and it appears smooth between 60~70fps and again smooth over 120fps. Not smooth between 70~110fps.

Im guessing frametime latency. Photonboy explains well whats probably going on. I get you cant actually see past 60fps on 60Hz. But op is wondering why 70~110 seems worse on 60Hz than 120fps.

And would 144Hz monitor help improve his experience. I believe it would and even better with a variable refresh monitor with Freesync or Gsync.

 

[benwinwood6]

Hi,
You need to explain what you mean by "70-110 fps looks like it's sub 60fps" as that's confusing.

Does the DESKTOP work fine but games feel sluggish?

If so I suspect you're running with VSYNC ON but unable to actually output 144FPS from the graphics card. There's a few solutions to this then:

1. VSYNC OFF
- VSYNC ON only helps eliminate screen TEARING. However it causes stutter when the FPS (GPU) and Hz (Monitor) don't match.
- Screen tear though is less as the Hz/FPS ratio increases. So try turning VSYNC OFF and see how that goes.
- 50FPS for example on 144Hz monitor probably won't show much screen tear (might be a good FPS for GTA5)
- I'd probably still CAP the FPS for the game to get a more consistent experience

2. Adaptive VSYNC Half Refresh (NVidia... AMD has similar but not sure how).
- caps the FPS at 72FPS (for 144Hz monitor) so same frame is drawn twice
- VSYNC is thus ON so no screen tearing
- VSYNC is auto turned OFF if you can't hit 72FPS output
*In this case I'd tweak game settings so you hit 72FPS about 90% of the time (10% of time any drops just show screen tearing). Depends on game how obvious screen tearing is.

Confirm the FPS is correct with FRAPS or Steam in-game counter.

Other:
Hardware to show 144FPS always?
Must be games. There is NOTHING that exists that can display a demanding game at a solid 144FPS at 1080p or higher. And there are many games that the CPU would be a bottleneck (even an i7-8700K) and unable to hit 144FPS.

My GTX1080 can't maintain 60FPS at highest settings in several games. Such as Rise of the Tomb Raider (at 2560x1440).

Summary:
Experiment with:
a) VSYNC OFF, or
b) Adaptive VSYNC Half Refresh

I don't know about AMD's software but I did have RadeonPro working to do "Dynamic VSYNC Half Refresh" exactly like the NVidia version.

Sorry for the late response. Ill explain exactly what I mean now. The desktop is not sluggish and the problem is quite specific. It happens on two seperate 60-hz screens i use and two different gpu's, ram, psu (Cpu and MOBO are the same).

I use Msi afterburner to measure games when I play them. I am quite good at judging frame drops by eye and can easily tell when something drops or feels below 60fps. When I drop below 110fps on ANY game, it looks like the frame rate is under 60fps (feels like around 50fps). I notice the drops in game play and then confirm my suspicion with Msi AB. I check for Gpu usage memory and temps and they are fine.

If I cap my fps to 90fps, it is constantly like this, as if the frame rate is running at a solid 50fps, but not smooth like 60. the drops from 120-100 fps feel the same as when you drop from 60fps to 50, there is clear choppiness to it.

To be clear i'm testing on rainbow Six siege and even moderate hardware can run 144fps well on lower settings.

 

[benwinwood6]

Been eyeing on this post for a bit but couldn't find a way to answer. Was actually hoping photonboy would come a long and explain coz i liked his magazine page analogy on split frames lol.

But thought id respond now because i have the feeling the op was misunderstood.

He has a 60hz screen and it appears smooth between 60~70fps and again smooth over 120fps. Not smooth between 70~110fps.

Im guessing frametime latency. Photonboy explains well whats probably going on. I get you cant actually see past 60fps on 60Hz. But op is wondering why 70~110 seems worse on 60Hz than 120fps.

And would 144Hz monitor help improve his experience. I believe it would and even better with a variable refresh monitor with Freesync or Gsync.

Sorry for the late response, I message photon boy the same thing.

The desktop is not sluggish and the problem is quite specific. It happens on two seperate 60-hz screens i use and two different gpu's, ram, psu (Cpu and MOBO are the same).

I use Msi afterburner to measure games when I play them. I am quite good at judging frame drops by eye and can easily tell when something drops or feels below 60fps. When I drop below 110fps on ANY game, it looks like the frame rate is under 60fps (feels like around 50fps). I notice the drops in game play and then confirm my suspicion with Msi AB. I check for Gpu usage memory and temps and they are fine.

If I cap my fps to 90fps, it is constantly like this, as if the frame rate is running at a solid 50fps, but not smooth like 60. the drops from 120-100 fps feel the same as when you drop from 60fps to 50, there is clear choppiness to it.

 

[benwinwood6]

Were you running 70-110 FPS on a monitor that didn't support those frame rates (e.g. a 60Hz monitor?). It's all about syncing up the frames between the GPU and the screen. The greater the difference between the framerate, and the refresh rate of the monitor, the worse the image will look (choppyness, tearing, etc)...to a degree. For example, 60 FPS synced up to a monitor running at 120Hz (1/2) would look okay. But yes, I do believe a 144Hz monitor would improve your image quality at those framerates (if you're using a 60Hz monitor chances are it's older and that comes with other problems too.) Just get a quality one, refresh rate isn't everything in a screen...

Yes, my monitor supports 60hz. If i cap at 90fps the games look like theya re running at a constant 50fps. Is this because the frames arent syncing up properly? Look below for a more detailed response. Thanks

 

[jdog2pt0]

Yes, my monitor supports 60hz. If i cap at 90fps the games look like theya re running at a constant 50fps. Is this because the frames arent syncing up properly? Look below for a more detailed response. Thanks

60Hz = 60fps

Running 90fps on a 60Hz monitor is you throwing away 30 frames a second. The monitor is not, and can not display those extra frames.

In a perfect world, you'd want your framerate and refresh rate to be on a 1 to 1 ratio e.g. 60Hz/60fps 100Hz/100fps (hence G-Sync and Freesync which adjust the monitors refresh rate), but that's beyond the scope of your question.

Try doing some research around the web. There's a lot of good articles out there explaining this stuff. Here's one article on Tom's Guide to check out

https://www.tomsguide.com/us/refresh-rates-vs-response-times,news-24345.html

 

[benwinwood6]

Yes, my monitor supports 60hz. If i cap at 90fps the games look like theya re running at a constant 50fps. Is this because the frames arent syncing up properly? Look below for a more detailed response. Thanks

60Hz = 60fps

Running 90fps on a 60Hz monitor is you throwing away 30 frames a second. The monitor is not, and can not display those extra frames.

In a perfect world, you'd want your framerate and refresh rate to be on a 1 to 1 ratio e.g. 60Hz/60fps 100Hz/100fps (hence G-Sync and Freesync which adjust the monitors refresh rate), but that's beyond the scope of your question.

Try doing some research around the web. There's a lot of good articles out there explaining this stuff. Here's one article on Tom's Guide to check out

https://www.tomsguide.com/us/refresh-rates-vs-response-times,news-24345.html

I know I'm throwing away frames, but my input lag is much better at higher frame rates, even if my monitor cant display them,

People I have asked have said that 90fps should look smooth on a 60hz monitor, my question specifically is why the framerates look like they are below 60fps between 70-110fps?

 

[jdog2pt0]

Because you're only get a partial frame when the monitor calls for a refresh, due to the fact the frames and refresh rate are so out of sync, plus because you're sending so many more frames than the monitor can display, you may be getting a frame that is multiple frames ahead of the previous displayed frame which makes everything look janky.

 

[boju]

60~70fps isnt too far over max refresh so it wont look too bad. Above 120fps frame latency is reduced and would appear smooth but there would still be tearing but less noticeable.

For fps variance while you play you would go for a Freesync or Gsync monitor to suit your gpu. Either technology will show the correct frames on screen between a certain range, commonly around 30~144Hz.

Theres quite a few Gsync/Freesync monitors around so if you're interested, look around at reviews and user reviews. They're both worth it.

To start with

AOC - G2460PF Freesync


AOC - G2460PG Gsync

 

[benwinwood6]

Because you're only get a partial frame when the monitor calls for a refresh, due to the fact the frames and refresh rate are so out of sync, plus because you're sending so many more frames than the monitor can display, you may be getting a frame that is multiple frames ahead of the previous displayed frame which makes everything look janky.

Thanks for the explanation. I never hear of anyone complaining that a solid 90fps looks like its constantly under 60fps, regardless of hardware and game, guess its just one of those things that isn't well told.

 

[benwinwood6]

60~70fps isnt too far over max refresh so it wont look too bad. Above 120fps frame latency is reduced and would appear smooth but there would still be tearing but less noticeable.

For fps variance while you play you would go for a Freesync or Gsync monitor to suit your gpu. Either technology will show the correct frames on screen between a certain range, commonly around 30~144Hz.

Theres quite a few Gsync/Freesync monitors around so if you're interested, look around at reviews and user reviews. They're both worth it.

To start with

AOC - G2460PF Freesync


AOC - G2460PG Gsync

So it's normal for a solid capped 90fps to look like it's constantly under 60fps and that's the same for everyone regardless of hardware (not display)? I just don't hear anyone on Pc complaining about how 70-110 fps looks like its under 60fps constantly and it seems a bit bizarre to me, since most people will have 60hz monitors.

G-sync is a little out of my price range unfortunately

 

[J_E_D_70]

No, that’s not normal. You might see tearing but shouldn’t feel slower than 60. If you have nvidia have you tried FastSync? You’ll still render unconstrained but only draw 60fps so you don’t get tearing and you have less input lag than vsync.

Edit: To your original question, 144hz should feel smoother whatever your fps is. You’ll still get tearing since they’re not in sync but the tears are on screen less than half the time of a 60hz monitor so usually less noticable. But, some folks are very sensitive to seeing those tears.

 

[benwinwood6]

No, that’s not normal. You might see tearing but shouldn’t feel slower than 60. If you have nvidia have you tried FastSync? You’ll still render unconstrained but only draw 60fps so you don’t get tearing and you have less input lag than vsync.

Edit: To your original question, 144hz should feel smoother whatever your fps is. You’ll still get tearing since they’re not in sync but the tears are on screen less than half the time of a 60hz monitor so usually less noticable. But, some folks are very sensitive to seeing those tears.

See these are the answers that throw me off. If you look above people are telling me the opposite. When the fps to a solid 90fps using Rivatuner, it looks noticably lower than 60fps (I'd say around 50-55), not smooth and remains that way constantly. This confirms my suspicion, that when in game I get drops below 100 it does this.

I don't want to use Fast Sync, because I'm trying to play competitively and need as low input lag as possible. Secondarily, there is nothing more grinding to me than having something broken, which if you say this isnt normal then something is.

 

[boju]

Get a vanilla 144Hz monitor. Even Freesync monitors will work as normal 144Hz monitors if you find a great deal on one.

 

[J_E_D_70]

If you’re going to be competitive you’re going to have to spend competitive money.

As stated, start with 144hz and see.

 

[benwinwood6]

Get a vanilla 144Hz monitor. Even Freesync monitors will work as normal 144Hz monitors if you find a great deal on one.

I'm going to, I just wanted to make sure this was normal and that my hardware isn't damaged.

Thanks for the help

 

[boju]

Get a vanilla 144Hz monitor. Even Freesync monitors will work as normal 144Hz monitors if you find a great deal on one.

I'm going to, I just wanted to make sure this was normal and that my hardware isn't damaged.

Thanks for the help

Nothing wrong with your hardware. Might be Win10 game bar not helping but we'll get to that in a minute. I'd say its just 60Hz playing tricks and if you look close and long enough for any abnormal display discrepancy it'll be hard to un-notice it.

Your input latency will be improved, id imagine from 85Hz you'll start to notice and if you play games like csgo on servers with tickrate higher than 60, your visuals will be more in sync with the server.

Dont remember if i mentioned game bar yet here, on Win10 it is known to cause problems. Fullscreen optimisation is part of game bar. Not actually an option you can find under game bar but an option under the compatibility tab of the game's exe. It can hurt performance as well as cause micro stutters. Better off to disable game bar first then uninstall. Read up about it.


Fast sync as said, it isn't like Vsync, the drawn frames are never held and frame latency doesn't increase much which means your keyboard/mouse input isn't nearly as bad if not any like compared to Vsync. Fast sync allows the gpu to keep rendering the same frame until the monitor catches up. Of course Fast sync wouldn't know what the monitor sees, its just timing and at an electronic level very accurate.

 

[miklle1965]

This is the same question am asking lately, cuz am replacing my monitor recently ...
Mostly online game with beautiful sceenery, no matter how high your spect is ...
you most likely will only get 80 ~ 100 fps, at most ...
.
NOW... If I buy at 144Hz monitor , will it runs smoother than the 75Hz monitor ???
Cuz , same model, 75Hz is 30% cheaper than the 144Hz monitor ...

 

[miklle1965]

I've noticed this video ... it gave some help for me ...
.
[video="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbgu8d1E1l4"][/video]