First time build, rate my parts list.

[zubb]

Hello people of tom'sHardeware, I have been lurking for a week or so coming here for any questions I needed answered that someone else had already asked. Now I wanted to ask how my progress is holding up.

First build, be gentle with a noob.

The goal of my build is a cheap gaming pc the can play not so new stuff. I'm currently on one of those throw money at it alienware laptops. And it's nice, but I wanted to try building my own.

Games benchmark: I play total war medieval 2, rise of nations, and stalker, and skyrim, and xcom 2, and not so much battlefield or anything. I wouldn't mind being able to play those though. I would also like to be able to photoshop and maybe record a bit of games.

About the build: I am pretty sure the graphics card sucks, but it's cheap. I don't think I need an ssd unless you guys think its super good or something. I heard good things about the FX-6300.

Zubb build-01

CPU: AMD FX-6300 6 core Should be around $85.
MOBO: Gigabyte brand GA 970A DS3P about $80.
RAM: Kingston 4gig 1333MHz 240pin DDR3 SDRAM (x2)$80
GPU: GT710 $50-$60 (Many models not sure.)
STOREAGE: WD Blue, 7200 RPM, SATA, 6GB/s, 64MB Cache,1T. $50 dollars. (The cord is sold seperatly.) A blue model is nearly half the price of a black model.
SATA CABLE: Sata cable. (3-10 dollars.)
PSU: MasterWatt 750 (80dollars.)
CASE: (Want a big one, but whatever will fit.)
COOLING: (I'd like some.)
OS: Windows 7

$505 (Would be nice to get that lower.)

I have a broken (It beep and no turn on.) hp media center m8100n. Like the entire computer, can I rob any parts off of it?


If this post is in the wrong place or some such, sorry.

 

[Saturnity]

For those type of games, that would probably be good enough. Older games like you stated, don't require much, FX-6300 isn't too bad, actually decent, so yeah it should be alright

 

[cryoburner]

It's not a particularly good build for the money, in my opinion. The FX-6300 has substantially lower per-core performance than recent CPUs from AMD or Intel, and that can matter a fair amount in games. It may have six cores, but they're six slow cores, and while they might have been alright when the CPU first came out way back in late 2012, they will hold back performance in today's games, and there are substantially better performing CPUs available in the sub-$100 price range today. You would be much better off looking at something like an AMD Ryzen 1200 or 2200G. They only have 4-cores, but they have much faster performance per core, and should even outperform an FX-6300 when presented with heavily-multithreaded workloads. And you can find decent socket AM4 B350 motherboards for those CPUs that allow overclocking for around the same price or less compared to that motherboard that won't accept modern processors, and AM4 motherboards should continue to support AMD's new processors for the next couple years, in case you ever want to upgrade to something better.

Another option would be the Intel Pentium G4560 or G4600, which can cost less. They are only dual-core with hyperthreading (for four threads), but should still offer better performance in most games than an FX-6300, again due to their substantially faster performance per core, and also have some decent upgrade options available for their motherboards.

Also, the GT 710 is not good for gaming. It's in a similar performance range to the integrated graphics included in some of Intel's lowest-end current CPUs, like the G4560, and should be behind the performance of the integrated graphics included in the G4600. And even those Intel graphics chipsets are not good enough for most recent games. The Ryzen 2200G offers far better (but still low-end) integrated graphics, multiple times as fast as Intel's offerings or the GT 710, and just a little below the performance of a GT 1030. It's about the bare minimum you would probably want for playing recent games at low settings and resolutions. Just keep in mind that the Ryzen 2200G just came out, and most AM4 motherboards need to be updated to support it, which can be an involved process requiring getting additional hardware loaned from AMD. The Ryzen 1200 does not include integrated graphics at all, but if you want to get a dedicated card, it currently has much better motherboard compatibility than the 2200G.

There's a graphics card shortage causing their prices to be rather high right now, but even a GTX 1050 (currently around $160) should be around twice as fast as the GT 1030 or the Ryzen 2200G's integrated graphics, and many times as fast as Intel's integrated graphics or a GT 710. A GTX 1050 is about the minimum you would want for playing most recent and upcoming games at 1080p resolution.

I agree that an SSD is not necessary for a budget build, and a hard drive should be fine, just with longer load times in games, which arguably isn't a big concern. Motherboards should come with SATA cables, so you shouldn't really need those. But you will need DDR4 memory for the newer processors, and Ryzen (especially the integrated graphics included in the 2200G) run best on faster memory, although some fast DDR4 2933 or 3200 ram only costs about $20 more than the slower DDR3 you listed.

Also, you can definitely get away with a lower-capacity power supply, as any modern hardware anywhere around this performance range shouldn't draw more than a few hundred watts under load at most. 750 watt PSUs are many just necessary for ultra-high end builds with multiple high-end graphics cards. Look for a relatively decent 500+ watt model, such as a Seasonic, which should support most of today's hardware, providing plenty of room for future upgrades.

It's also worth pointing out that extended support for Windows 7 is set to end in less than two years, after which the OS won't likely get any security updates. Plus, newer processors don't fully support the OS and it doesn't have DirectX12 support, which might be an issue in future games. If you're buying a new copy of Windows, I would go with Windows 10 at this point, even if it has its annoyances.

 

[cryoburner]

I don't normally post complete builds here, and it's possible there could be some incompatibility with these parts, but here's some ideas about what could be done for around $500. If a copy of Windows is not included in that amount, then you could even move up to a GTX 1050 graphics card. I threw these builds together using PCPartPicker, which is a useful way to find the lowest prices for parts across a number of different big online stores, and helps point out if things should be generally compatible. For example...

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Pentium G4560 3.5GHz Dual-Core Processor ($58.79 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: ASRock - B250M Pro4 Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($64.89 @ OutletPC)
Memory: Patriot - Viper Elite 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-2400 Memory ($80.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital - Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($43.89 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: Gigabyte - GeForce GTX 1050 2GB OC Video Card ($159.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Phanteks - ECLIPSE P400 TEMPERED GLASS ATX Mid Tower Case ($54.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic - 520W 80+ Bronze Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($34.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $498.52
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-03-31 02:12 EDT-0400

In this build, the CPU is a little on the weak side being only a dual-core with hyperthreading, but should still perform better in practically all games than an FX-6300. The graphics card will make more of a performance difference in most games though, and a GTX 1050 is much better than any integrated option, or a GT 710 for that matter. The P400 is a relatively nice mid-size case that's available with a tempered glass window. It comes in multiple color options, though I went with one of the two options that were currently available at a lower sale price. The PSU is a Seasonic, which is a good brand, though this is a lower-end model. It should be more than enough to handle this build though. Note that the case and PSU require a total of $35 worth of mail in rebates to get those prices. And you'll likely need to add a copy of Windows, which will drive up the cost further.

Here's another option at a lower price point...

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 3 2200G 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($99.88 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: ASRock - X370 Pro4 ATX AM4 Motherboard ($89.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($98.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital - Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($43.89 @ OutletPC)
Case: Phanteks - ECLIPSE P400 TEMPERED GLASS ATX Mid Tower Case ($54.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic - 520W 80+ Bronze Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($34.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $422.73
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-03-31 02:13 EDT-0400


Unlike the previous build, this one makes use of the Ryzen 2200G's integrated graphics, which are less than half as fast as a GTX 1050, but should still be able to run most recent games, though some will need to run at resolutions below 1080p with low graphics settings to get playable frame rates. Performance should still be much better than an FX-6300 with a GT 710 though. The CPU is a quad-core, and should perform a bit better in most games than the hyperthreaded dual-core in the other build, though the lower-performing graphics hardware will be holding back performance more than anything. There is of course the option of adding a better graphics card in the future though, perhaps once the prices of graphics cards come down. I did go with a higher-end motherboard for this one, simply because I believe that model came out after the 2200G's launch, and others claim that it should support that CPU without requiring a BIOS update. I went with a dual-channel kit of faster DDR4 3200 RAM too, since Ryzen performs best with faster RAM, and it can make an especially big difference with the integrate Vega graphics. Again, there's some rebates to get that price, though this should allow you to add a copy of Windows 10.

There is probably still room for improvement on these builds though. One other option I can think of would be to go with the first Intel build, but instead of a GTX 1050, you could get a GT 1030. The GT 1030 can currently be found for around $100 or so, and I currently see one model at Amazon for $90 shipped, though in limited quantities. Performance-wise, the graphics hardware would be a little faster than the Ryzen 2200G's integrated graphics, and you wouldn't have the 2200G using some of your RAM as shared graphics memory. CPU performance would again be a little lower that the Ryzen CPU though. Compared to the 2200G build, graphics performance would be a little faster, but CPU performance would be a little slower, and the cost would likely be a little higher. Of course, if it works with your budget, the GTX 1050 should offer around double the gaming performance of the GT 1030 in most games, especially at 1080p.

 

[zubb]

That's an impressive response cryoburner, thank you.
I'm liking the second build because it looks cheaper, better, and more thought out than my zubb build-01.
My build did kind of go heavy handed on the PSU. I'd heard you needed to go ahead and get enough, but I had too much.

I'd forgotten about the games space engineers, kerbals, and dwarf fortress. Are they particularly intensive games? Other than DF being hard on the CPU.

Just to go back to that hp media center m8100n.
https://www.amazon.com/HP-M8100N-Processor-Discontinued-Manufacturer/dp/B000RNI6L0/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
Would it be a terrible idea to use this as a case. It's not beautiful, but I already have it.

 

[cryoburner]

Actually, you probably could re-use the case, depending on the hardware you choose. It's more than likely compatible with standard components, though that sometimes isn't the case with these prebuilt systems. I do notice that it positions the drives in an uncommon way, and you apparently need to access the hard drive bay through the front of the case and first pull the drives out through there to reach the motherboard, but that might not cause any problems, aside from being a bit cluttered. The DVD burner and card reader could likely be hooked up to the new motherboard as well. I'm not so sure about the TV tuner though, since it likely uses an older PCI slot interface, which many newer motherboards don't support (The Intel one in my example build has one though). Plus, that tuner card might not even have compatible drivers for recent versions of Windows.

Also, I don't believe that HP Media Center case can fit a larger ATX motherboard, like the one I put in the the AMD build. You'll notice it's longer than the MicroATX board in the Intel build, with more expansion slots, and that HP case might not be tall enough for it. Looking at pictures online, it does look like that case might only support MicroATX size boards. The P400 case I linked to should fit full-size boards. It might also be a bit of a tight squeeze to install things in that HP case, but the option is certainly there if you want to save an extra $50 or so off the cost of a case, just keep in mind that you may need to use MicroATX motherboards.

I'm not sure about the performance demands of Space Engineers or Kerbal Space Program, though Space Engineers seems like it would be relatively demanding on both the CPU and graphics card. I think the demands for Kerbal would be relatively low. And yeah, Dwarf Fortress should depend almost entirely on CPU performance.

I did get a little carried away posting earlier. It was already a wall of text before I decided to come back later and provide some example build suggestions. : P

 

[J_E_D_70]

Cryo’s first build is the winner imho.

 

[zubb]

I think I'm gonna give cryo's first build a go.
Probably gonna try to use my m8100n as a case as the sale for the phantek ends soon. Plan could change though.
Could always upgrade cases later I guess.
Can't get the money to the bank until wensday, but will post progress unless the thread gets locked.

Thanks everybody, and cryo especially for the just long enough wall O' text.

Oh yeah and I've never actually used that tv tuner, I'm guessing it was sort of a pre DVR type thing. Now we all have tv on our phones.

 

[madmatt30]

You can get right down price wise if you did reconsider ryzen 2200g.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 3 2200G 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($99.88 @ OutletPC)
Memory: ADATA - XPG GAMMIX D10 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($90.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital - Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($43.31 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Corsair - CXM (2015) 450W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($29.99 @ Newegg)
Other: GIGABYTE AB350M-DS3H AM4 AMD X370 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.1 HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard ($73.98 @ Newegg)
Total: $338.15
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-04-01 15:21 EDT-0400

 

[cryoburner]

You can get right down price wise if you did reconsider ryzen 2200g.

Yeah, it looks like that's another recently-released AM4 board that should support the 2200G and 2400G out of the box, and will probably also fit that HP Media Center case, and it is more attractively priced for a budget gaming build. Of course, I do think getting a GTX 1050 would provide more satisfactory gaming performance in recent titles at 1080p, since it is on average over twice as fast as the 2200G's integrated Vega GPU. You could of course go with a combination of the two, adding a GTX 1050 to a quad-core Ryzen system like that one, which might still be within your price range if you are able to reuse the case. Or, try the integrated Ryzen graphics for now and see how well that works out, and add a GTX 1050 or faster graphics card at a later time when you feel the need for one. Graphics card prices are rather high right now, but there's a good chance you might be able to get more performance for your money later in the year.

 

[madmatt30]

@cryoburner - I do agree with everything you've said.

However I do think when it comes to future proofing,upgradability & outright performance now the ryzen is a better choice.

I'd take it ,use the igp & wait for prices to drop a little on gpu's - in actuality every game mentioned will run fine on the ryzen graphics imo.

1050/ti prices have inflated another $20-30 in the last fortnight.

I do think that you'll see 1050s at $120-130 again once stocks get back up.

 

[zubb]

A ryzen now upgrade later build. That sounds good too.
I'll for sure go over everything again before buying the parts. Revise, Revise, Revise.

 

[zubb]

My computer parts have finally arrived so here is an update.
-I am pretty sure the MOBO will fit my case.
-Not sure if any of my legacy junk will hook up to the new stuff yet. I have the cd burner drive thing and the card reader.
-I have some kind of adapter that plugs into the motherboard of the old HP. It is a chip card type thing and has a VGA port. How likely is it that I can plug that into the new board so as to get VGA capability on my new build. I would like VGA, but it's not super important.

I settled on the following.

zubb build-03
CPU: AMD Ryzen 3 2200G
MOBO: Gigabyte AB350M-DS3H AM4 AMD X370 SATA 6gb/s USB3.1 HMDI Micro ATX AMD
RAM: ADATA XPG GAMMIX D10 8g (2x4GB) 288 Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3000 (PC4 24000) Desktop Memory Model AX4U3000W4G16DBG
GPU: Intefrated
STOREAGE: WD Blue 1T SATA 6gb/s 7200 RPM 64mb Cache 3.5 inch
PSU: CORSAIR CX-M Series CX450 450W 80 Plus Bronze Haswell Ready ATX12V & EPS12V Semi-Modular Power Supply
CASE: My old HP.
COOLING: None.

(363.90) Estimated
(374.98) Actual (So far)

EDIT:
Warning large.
I learned how to do spoilers.

Pics.

Spoiler

PSU box.

PSU opened.

PSU more opened.

RAM boxed.

RAM opened.

STOREAGE.

CASE.

MOBO box.

MOBO opened.

MOBO opened alt.

CPU box.

CPU opened.

CPU fan.

CPU.

The one tragic thing, is that I forgot to order thermal paste

 

[madmatt30]

^ the CPU fan/heatsink already has paste on it

Dont remove the plastic until you're actually ready to fit it.

 

[zubb]

Oh ah heck, I've already ordered thermal paste.
It was good quality too.

Should I wait for the new paste or would it not really matter if I use the stock paste or not?

Also I bought a new mouse from walmart for around eight dollars. It's cheapish, but is a good size, is simple, cords long enough, and it has a nice crisp *click*. Three buttons including the mouse wheel.

 

[cryoburner]

Eh, you could replace it if you wanted. The original paste is probably fine, but other good thermal compounds may allow for slightly better heat transfer between the CPU and its cooler. You would want to remove the original paste from the heat sink using something like isopropyl alcohol first though. Even if you don't use it right away, it might be good to have on hand, since the thermal compound should be replaced if you ever remove the heat sink for any reason.

As for that "some kind of adapter" with the VGA port, if it's not the capture card hooked up to the front ports, then it's probably an old, low-end graphics card, most likely the GeForce Go 6150, if it's the exact same system you linked to at Amazon. The Ryzen 2200G's integrated graphics would be far more capable than one of those, so you probably wouldn't want to use it. I don't believe that the Ryzen graphics could be output through that card's VGA port, though I'm not entirely certain on that. If you wanted to hook up a screen that only supported an analog VGA connection, you would likely be better off using an active adapter that can convert a signal from the motherboard's HDMI or DVI-D port to VGA. Those can be found on sites like Amazon for less than $10. None of the latest-generation video card's support VGA anymore, and the connection is getting phased out on newer hardware.

 

[zubb]

The thermal paste came in early so I put the rig together yesterday.

Been trying to get a freaking OS onto it for a while now.
Lubuntu blew my mind and kept trying to install in UEFI will doom your pc mode.
And the windows 7 which seems to work okay on my laptop, never fully installed it though, dosen't work on the new rig. It goes bsod and says the aci thing is not compatible with the thing.

The new comp's bios is a uefi, because it has mouse support. It has legacy only or UEFI only and I have tried both. The bios version is f7 or something 2018.

The drive I'm using is a usb boot thing with ntsc (not fat32) stuff and I think it is supposed to work with bios or uefi because the rufus said it was.
My laptop runs in uefi mode I think, because I can have files bigger than 4 gigs and such and I read its disc partitions area and that...Well no that says NTFS.
Sorry if I'm a bit unclear. I learned what all this crap means just today. And am annoyed, and a bit done with this for today.

Also the bios looks cool, all red and stuff.

Two pics.

Spoiler

Before

After

BSOD

[spoiler/]

 

[madmatt30]

Firstly you need to be looking at using windows 10 for new cpu's (both intel & amd)

There is no native support for windows 7 - it can be used with some manual tinkering but seeing as you can use windows 10 unregistered with very little limitation there really is no point.

Make sure theres nothing you need on your USB drive (it will get formatted) & use the media creation tool to create a bootable install on your flash drive.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows10

Secondly, you do have the cpu fan connected up ?? (I notice your rear case fan isnt plugged in ?)

Also ram , I cant see on the photo but it needs to be plugged into the matching black slots (slots 1 & 3 from the cpu)

Windows 10 (once made with the media creation tool) should install fine on the new pc.

 

[zubb]

-Some bullet points.

-Welp I've been avoiding win10 because I heard bad things, but I may have to look into it now.

-I got home from work today to find my alienware with win 7 has decided to invalidate my user profile for the second time this year. Thankfully I saved my stuff last time, and this time I put all my stuff off of the desktop.

-The CPU fan is plugged in and spinning, very quietly, and the back fan was plugged in at the time of trying to get the computer to work. The back fan, the cd tray, and one 500 gb hardrive (not plugged in because it has win vista and I didn't want it in the way) are all from the old HP. I do have a new hardrive of 1T and it is plugged in. The ram is plugged into slots 1, and 2. Both colored greenish, but they skip a space like 1, 3, 2, 4. I've seen the numbers on the board itself. I did originally have them plugged into 3, and 4 black colored. But I changed them before booting even once.

-I think I made the boot usb correctly. I have rufus and windows usb tool, tried both with two different isos of win7 and one of lubuntu. I don't think I want linux anymore, it seems fiddly. That's about all I can think of.

-A disclaimer. The win7 was acquired from you know where. I tried two different versions. Both went to bsod aci not compatible whatever. The comments from where I got them said generally "yeah it works".
I think they're fine isos, but yeah I guess they "could" be the problem. But I wouldn't definitively say that "was" the problem. Also I acquired them "after" my alienware invalidated my user account. User account not win 7 installation. So they didn't cause that new problem.

-One thing I noticed while typing this up.
"Firstly you need to be looking at using windows 10 for new cpu's (both intel & amd)

There is no native support for windows 7 - it can be used with some manual tinkering..."

Wut?

-Closing remarks.
Thanks to my alienware invalidating my user profile all my firefox favorites and plugins (adblock) have gone. And uhh...THE ADs, O MY GOODNESS THE ADs!

 

[madmatt30]

Win 7 has no native ryzen usb support.

Meaning you shpuld be able to boot the iso but unless you have an old stylen ps2 keyboard/mouse you cant actually select anything to continue the installation.
You can inject USB drivers into the iso but its more trouble than it's worth - windows 7 is essentially dead now.

As ypu dont even have a 'legit' win 7 install Id just do what I said & make a usb stick of win 10 .

It works non registered , the only caveats are onely a single Microsoft user account (you can have as majy local user accounts as you like) & a small nag box every couple of weeks.

 

[madmatt30]

^ youre tring to install win 7 via usb ??

Yeah that wont work due to what I mentioned regarding usb drivers, hence the erroring out.

 

[zubb]

Hey guys good news.
I got windows 10 installed and it works so far.
I don't have internet for it yet because I don't have a hardline into my room. Probably gonna get a usb wifi adaptor for now.

Thanks for all the help.