First time build advice £800

tommau5

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Nov 12, 2012
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10,510
First of all, hello. :) I've heard you guys are very helpful but I'm new to the PC building business, so be gentle. ;)

Approximate Purchase Date: in about a month

Budget Range: 800 (possibly more, not sure so 800 is max for now)

System Usage from Most to Least Important: Gaming is the main priority but I also would like to run DAWs like Cubase, FL Studio etc

Are you buying a monitor: No

Parts to Upgrade: CPU, GPU, mobo, case, ram, HDD, PSU, cooler

Do you need to buy OS: Yes

Preferred Website(s) for Parts: amazon, cclonline, overclockers.. not too fussy to be honest

Location: England, UK, Newcastle.

Parts Preferences: Intel CPU is my only real preference

Overclocking: Maybe if I learn how

SLI or Crossfire: I think I would like the option to do either

Your Monitor Resolution: 1920x1080

Additional Comments: I don't care how the case/tower looks, as long as it does the job. I'm particularly interested in playing Skyrim with visual mods, if this is possible at my budget. I also want to play BF3, probably CoD, Minecraft, Guild Wars 2 and others.

This is currently what I've came up with. I really don't know what GPU or case to go with so feel free to add and change anything.

http://pcpartpicker.com/uk/p/ntmE

I'm sure I can probably get some of those parts for better prices, e.g there was an i5-3570k 3.4ghz in a store today for £140, which is worth bearing in mind I guess.
 

malbluff

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This basically meets your wish list.
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor (£166.16 @ CCL Computers)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler (£26.12 @ Ebuyer)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD3H ATX LGA1155 Motherboard (£119.24 @ Amazon UK)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (£30.96 @ Scan.co.uk)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (£54.99 @ Ebuyer)
Video Card: MSI Radeon HD 7870 2GB Video Card (£180.94 @ Scan.co.uk)
Case: Antec Three Hundred Two ATX Mid Tower Case (£50.13 @ Amazon UK)
Power Supply: Corsair Enthusiast 750W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply (£79.86 @ Scan.co.uk)
Optical Drive: LG GH24NS90 DVD/CD Writer (£13.98 @ Novatech)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (64-bit) (£70.45 @ CCL Computers)
Total: £792.83
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2012-11-12 22:03 GMT+0000)
That graphics card would give decent performance, in your games, actually about 10% above benches that don't include latest drivers.
<a http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/548 /a>

An alternative approach might be to use a locked processor (therefore no CPU overclocking), and money saved from that and effective loss of crossfire capability, could be used to get even better GPU. That would give better short term performance, if not as versatile.
 

tommau5

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Nov 12, 2012
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10,510


Thanks for the quick reply. What are the pros and cons of taking that approach? And will the system you suggested be able to handle visual enhancement mods on Skyrim? Sorry for the severe lack of knowledge, I'm rather new to all of this. :ange:
 

malbluff

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The Anandtech benchmarks in my link include the performance in Skyrim. What you will actually achieve is about 10% higher, as those benches, don't allow for GPU overclocking, or latest drivers. I don't play Skyrim myself, so unsure what extra demands the mods put on GPU.
If you use a locked processor, and cheaper motherboard, you lose the ability to overclock the processor, which loses you some potential performance. On the other hand, it frees up funds, to get a better graphics card, which will increase performance. How those two factors balance out, will vary, from game to game, but, on average will give a net gain.
What you lose, really is, when new games and latest processors start to make yours feel slow, as will inevitably happen eventually, overclocking gives you the ability to give your system a boost, to keep up, a bit longer. It's a question of whether you sacrifice that, for a small gain now.
 

Thomas Creel

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Oct 21, 2012
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10,810
I did some tweaking to the previous build

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor (£166.16 @ CCL Computers)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler (£26.12 @ Ebuyer)
Motherboard: ASRock Z77 Pro4 ATX LGA1155 Motherboard (£83.72 @ Scan.co.uk)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (£30.96 @ Scan.co.uk)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (£68.76 @ Scan.co.uk)
Video Card: MSI Radeon HD 7870 2GB Video Card (£180.94 @ Scan.co.uk)
Case: XClio Nighthawk ATX Mid Tower Case (£28.79 @ Scan.co.uk)
Power Supply: XFX 650W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply (£65.30 @ CCL Computers)
Optical Drive: Samsung SH-222BB/BEBE DVD/CD Writer (£11.96 @ Scan.co.uk)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (64-bit) (£70.45 @ CCL Computers)
Total: £733.16
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)

I added the 2TB drive because you get 1TB of hard drive space for literally less than $20, a good deal.

 

malbluff

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That certainly gives an alternative strategy. You lose, in terms of crossfire support, and mobo versatility, but retain basic overclocking capability, and save money. Personally, unless I had a real need for additional storage, I would stick with 1TB (2TB is better VALUE, IF you're going to use it), and use the total money freed up, to get something like this, for GPU.
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

Video Card: MSI Radeon HD 7950 3GB Video Card (£256.99 @ Novatech)
Total: £256.99
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2012-11-13 10:49 GMT+0000)

That would give better graphic performance, without losing anything "vital" elsewhere. These are a couple of benchmarks. I wouldn't claim they are 100% accurate, but the comparason is realistic.
<a http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/548?vs=550 /a>
 

Thomas Creel

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Oct 21, 2012
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10,810

Yeah I wouldn't recommend buying it if you arent going to be using all 2TB. You make a good point.
 

tommau5

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Nov 12, 2012
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10,510
Hey guys cheers for your help, I appreciate it. I know that I don't need 2TB of storage; I've barely used 300gb on my current one and I thought it was pretty full of crap as it was to be honest. I think I also forgot to mention that I already have an optical drive. I made a couple of changes.

http://pcpartpicker.com/uk/p/nAgn

Is crossfiring an option with this motherboard? By all means, feel free to tell me anything you would change personally and why, its all very helpful. :)
 

malbluff

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Looking pretty good. I see you've changed to Gigabyte board. Nothing wrong with that, I would myself prefer the quality of a Gigabyte. As long as you haven't done it because of the lack of good crossfire support, on the Pro4, as that Gigabyte has the same limitation, although better in other ways. If you were looking for full crossfire support, you need one of their more expensive Z77X boards. As already mentioned, though, crossfire is rarely the best option, for a future upgrade.
 

tommau5

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Nov 12, 2012
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10,510


Nah I didn't do it for the lack of crossfire support, I noticed that they had the same limitation and it isn't something I could afford to do for quite a while anyway. I'm £20 under budget, is there anything worth adding for that? :lol:
 

tommau5

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Nov 12, 2012
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10,510
Oh dear.. I did some searching on MSI and there seems to be an awful lot of negativity surrounding this company, its kind of putting me off..

Turns out my budget is now £870.. Will this extra bit of cash make much difference to which GPU I can get?
 

malbluff

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What negatives are those. The only issue I've come across is over how they achieve high performance on a couple of specific nVidia GPUs, and that I think is more "hot air" than real substance. Generally GPU quality is fairly good, and their cooling solutions are excellent.
If you want to change manufacturer, Gigabyte are good, XFX are often good value. Sapphire also aren't bad.
 

tommau5

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Nov 12, 2012
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10,510
I read in quite a few places that their quality control is going downhill, a lot of cards being DOA, bad customer service and other such things. Not that I believe everything I read on the internet, but I switched to the Gigabyte card just for my own peace of mind really.
 

tommau5

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Nov 12, 2012
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10,510
Okay so I have another couple of questions (sorry lol).. I've done a bit of reading and looked at some benchmarks and from what I understand, an OC'd 7970 is actually quite close in performance to a 680. Do you guys think its worth it to stretch my budget a bit more and get a slightly more expensive GPU or is the difference going to be negligible? Is the HD 7950 going to do me well for at least a couple of years? I do plan to overclock if that helps. The appealing thing for me is that the AMD card has 3GB of VRAM, which from what I understand is good for playing modded games, which is something I'm interested in.
 

malbluff

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We have lengthy "discussions" on the relative merits of AMD and nVidia. Truth is it's complicated. Rather depends how you define it, but in terms of value for money, there's not a lot to chose between HD7950, HD7970, HD7970GHz, and GTX670. The most powerful GTX680 isn't actually particularly good value, in most situations, as it's only slightly better than GTX670, but costs a lot more. Would generally say, if you like to play lots of different games, AMD may be better value overall, but if you play just two or three games, most of the time, you should check individual performance, as nVidia does particularly well, in certain games. nVidia also can give more realistic gameplay, for things like explosions, or moving water. AMD are good at handling demanding game add-ons, like in Skyrim, and tend to be better with higher resolutions. nVidia's good for 3D, AMD for multi-monitor. Then you can get better performance, from manufacturers specials, like Asus TOP, MSI PE, and Zotac Amp.
With the possible exception of the GTX680, it's generally better to get the best (most powerful) card you can afford. Not only best performance, often best quality components, and will tend to remain "ahead of the game" longer. You also need to bear in mind, as you move up, in graphic power, you also move up in power consumption, and requirement. Don't forget an adequate power supply, for a single HD7970, 600w PSU is wise, 850w for two.
Clear? "As mud" I hear you say. lol.
 

tommau5

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Nov 12, 2012
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10,510
Haha oh man this is confusing. I have read that the HD 7970 is more suited for people who intend to overclock the nuts off their cards (don't know how true that is, just saying what I've heard), which I don't plan to do as I'm completely inexperienced. I planned to overclock a bit but it seems rather daunting since I've never done it.
Also, according to:
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/618?vs=598

The 670 2GB outperforms the HD 7970 3GB Ghz edition in BF3 and Skyrim, the two games I will be playing the most without a doubt. Out of these 2 cards, which one would you recommend? I guess that the 4gb of VRAM is overkill though.

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/3gb-gigabyte-radeon-hd-7970-6000mhz-gddr5-gpu-1100mhz-dl-dvi-i-hdmi-mdp

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/4gb-gigabyte-gtx-670-oc-windforce-3x-28nm-pcie-30-(x16)-6008mhz-gddr5-gpu-980mhz-boost-1058mhz-cores
 

malbluff

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To be honest, not a lot to chose between the two, for those two games. I'm not sure it's worth paying extra for the 4GB version of the Gigabyte Windforce3 GTX670, it doesn't really gain you much over the 2GB version. I note, on Scan's site, they've got the wrong photo, for that (it's actually an EVGA in photo). The GTX670 still has a slight lead in BF3, although the HD7970 has nearly caught up, and certainly could beat the GTX670, with overclocking. I think the HD7970 works better with some demanding add-ons in Skyrim.
Which would I chose? Difficult to say, as I'd have other interests, certainly than Skyrim. If money was an issue, probably the 2GB GTX670 Windforce 3. If money was not important, the HD7970, but a Gigahertz Edition, on the basis that it will probably give better performance in future games. Something like this. <a http://www.scan.co.uk/products/3gb-sapphire-radeon-hd-7970-vapor-x-ghz-edition-6000mhz-gddr5-28nm-gpu-1000mhz-2048-cores-dp-2x-dvi- /a>
 

tommau5

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Nov 12, 2012
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10,510
I found a couple of articles that directly compare the card you linked to several others and the only card that it doesn't keep up with/outperform when OC'd is the GTX 690 I believe, but the 690 would require a lottery win so no biggie.

After a bit of reading, overclocking sounds pretty doable; I had negative some misconceptions about it previously. The cooling system on the Sapphire card also sounds pretty awesome. I think I may have to expand my budget and add that card to my shopping list. Cheers for the help. This is what I've come up with thus far. I have gone a bit over budget :lol:

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/uk/p/o5Av
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/uk/p/o5Av/by_merchant/
Benchmarks: http://pcpartpicker.com/uk/p/o5Av/benchmarks/

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor (£166.16 @ CCL Computers)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler (£25.88 @ Ebuyer)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z77-D3H ATX LGA1155 Motherboard (£77.69 @ Amazon UK)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (£30.96 @ Scan.co.uk)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (£55.28 @ CCL Computers)
Case: Antec Three Hundred Two ATX Mid Tower Case (£50.40 @ Amazon UK)
Power Supply: XFX 650W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply (£65.30 @ CCL Computers)
Optical Drive: Samsung SH-222BB/BEBE DVD/CD Writer (£11.96 @ Scan.co.uk)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (64-bit) (£70.45 @ CCL Computers)
Other: Sapphire HD 7970 VAPOR-X GHZ Edition 3GB (£367.14)
Total: £921.22
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
 

malbluff

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With the software for modern motherboards and GPUs, basic overclocking is pretty straightforward. You can get clever, if you want to squeeze every last ounce of performance. Thing to bear in mind is, if you really "push it", it will reduce life expectancy of components, so don't go too mad, until you really know what you're doing.
Build looks pretty good. Be sure to use the CML version of that RAM. The high heat-sinks on other models can clash with cooler. Other than that, should be fine.
 

tommau5

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Nov 12, 2012
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10,510
Yeah I already have the CML version selected.

Cheers for the advice so far and everyone feel free to recommend anything you would add or change to my build, it'll probably be another couple of weeks till I buy it anyway.

EDIT: Really don't know what to take away from reviews or benchmarks tests, they all seem to just conflict and contradict one another. Some say that the HD 7970 is the best for certain games but then others say that a GTX 670 will beat it on the same games and this is with recent drivers I believe... Confusing stuff.
 

malbluff

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It is confusing. Even more so, as every time new drivers are released, the relative performance tends to change. I would say, if budget will allow HD7970 GHz Ed, that's the way to go. If not, then it really depends on your favourite games, between GTX670 and standard HD7970. Bear in mind, HD7970s use slightly more power than GTX670, so, whilst 550w is adequate for GTX670, with HD7970 is worth getting 600w PSU.