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£1000 to play with. Noob in need of some serious help.

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January 14, 2007 10:10:23 AM

Ive slowly been able to gather up some money together so I can build my first PC, my xbox is starting to get a little lame. The thing I want to avoid is buying the wrong stuff. Done some google searching and have come up with this system. Would greatly appreciate your thoughts.

MB

Gigabyte GA_965P_DS3 (Socket 775) PCI-Express DDR2 Motherboard
Asus P5B Deluxe (Socket 775) PCI-Express DDR2 Motherboard

Processor

Core 2 Duo E6600 2.40 Ghz Retail package

Graphics Card (OFF EBAY, just for little while till DX10 cards go down)

ATI RADEON 850 XT 256MB
ATI RADEON 850 XT PE 256MB

PSU (Already have)

Hiper HPU - 4S525 525W SLI CERTIFIED

Hard drive

Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 320GB ST3320620AS SATA-II 16MB Cache - OEM (I don't really think I'll do any raid setups)

RAM

OCZ 2GB (2 x 1GB) PC2-8000 Dual Channel Titanium Alpha XTC Series DDR2

Sound Cards

Creative X-Fi Xtreme Gamer Soundcard - Retail
Creative X-Fi Xtreme Gamer Fatal1ty Professional Soundcard - Retail

Cases

Antec Nine Hundred Ultimate Gaming case
Thermaltake VA3000SWA Tsunami Dream SuperMidi Aluminium Tower
CoolerMaster Ammo 533 Aluminum (No PSU) - Silver
Thermaltake VD1000BWS Aguila SuperMidi Tower - Black

Cooling

Tuniq Tower 120 CPU Cooler
+ maybe some other crap for extra cooling

Optical Drives

Pioneer DVR-111BK 16x16 DVD±RW Dual Layer ReWriter - (Black) OEM
Samsung SH-182MRSMN 18x18 DVD±RW Dual Layer Lightscribe ReWriter - Retail


Mostly will be used for gaming and the rest just for casual music listening/ encoding, little bit of video conversion/encoding etc.........
Would like to start doing a bit of overclocking as well. If Ive been stupid and picked a few silly things then please say. Only way I will learn. Thanks very much in advance.

More about : 1000 play noob

January 14, 2007 10:41:28 AM

Intel 775 motherboards are getting a bit cheaper now (DS3 is only £75 on Scan!) so you might be able to pick up something a little bit better than those two.

I'd go for the Antec 900 out of the cases you suggested, gets pretty good reviews across the interweb but apparently you need to fiddle with the HDD cages to be able to fix an 8800GTX in.

Good idea on the GFX card front. An X800XT / 7600GT are still pretty decent for most games at 1280x1024 and can be had for as low as £50 incl del.

As for thermal/cooling stuff the Tuniq Tower is a good choice, a little heavy though and if you're not gonna do that much overclocking look into something like the Arctic Cooling 7 Pro. Also use Arctic Silver 5 for thermal paste, very good stuff.

All in all good choices, I don't know much about Sound Cards though so can't really give you much help on that front. :p 

LN15049
Intel Core 2 Duo E6600, Socket 775, 2.4 GHz, 1066MHz FSB, Conroe Core, 4MB Cache, Retail £170.69 £200.56

LN15070
Gigabyte GA 965P-DS3 iP965, S775, PCI-E (x16), DDR2 533/667/800, SATA II, SATA RAID, ATX £65.79 £77.30

LN16496
2GB (2x1GB) CorsairTwinX XMS2 Dominator,DDR2 PC2-6400,240 Pins, NonECC Unbuffered, CAS 4-4-4-12, EPP £165.99 £195.04 (You could save like £30ish by buying different RAM Corsair stuff is the only RAM Scan seems to stock :/ )

LN16718
Antec Nine Hundred/Ultimate Gamer Case no PSU £63.95 £75.14

LN15943
NEC AD-7173A-0B Labelflash Black 18x DVD±RW Dual Layer inc 12x RAM Oem £18.10 £42.54

LN14162
320 Gb Seagate ST3320620AS Barracuda 7200.10, SATA300, 7200 rpm, 16MB Cache, 8.5 ms, NCQ £54.87 £64.47

LN13080
Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro - P4 up to 4.4GHz - S775 Dual Core / Core2Duo Ready £12.49 £14.68

LN14373
Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound for CPU and Chipset Coolers £1.99 £2.34

LN14778
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Music Sound Card OEM £42.99 £50.51


Net Total £614.96

Carriage £13.01

V.A.T. £109.89

TOTAL £737.86

Plus £60 on GFX card off of ebay = 797.86

That leaves £202.14 for a DX10 GFX card, save up a few quid over the months and you should have enough for an ATI R600 or G80. :) 
January 14, 2007 10:51:32 AM

Appreciate the fast reponse. The worst problem I'm having is choosing a decent motherboard. I want to start OC a lot but everytime I find a mobo I think might be a good choice, I then always find some negative reviews about them.

Any ideas?
Related resources
January 14, 2007 10:54:10 AM

Just get a P965 chipset motherboard, DS3 is highly recommended by many people (including myself). The layout is a bit naff though so you could opt for the P5B-E / P5B Deluxe.

Otherwise though it's a very good motherboard that gets very good ovrclocks.
January 14, 2007 10:59:19 AM

Cheers for the help mate. Ill start looking around for the best price. If you think of any more suggestions please let me know.
January 14, 2007 12:16:43 PM

Regarding prices - I saw some 4-4-4-12 RAM on Overclockers for £160 a few days ago, not sure if the offers still on though.
January 14, 2007 3:05:12 PM

I was thinking about getting a lot of the stuff from ebay as it goes quite a bit cheaper. The only parts I would have to buy from the stores are the processor, motherboard, hard drive.
January 14, 2007 3:10:36 PM

Yeah I suppose, I mean I bought some parts for my rig (AMD 3500, 1GB Kingston Hyper X RAM, Epox EP9 NPAJ SLi Motherboard and 7800GT) off of eBay and they turned out fine.

Make sure you test everything thoroughly first, run memtest86 if you buy RAM, try some stressing games on any GFX you buy etc.

And yeah - never buy a HDD off of eBay :p 
January 14, 2007 3:42:31 PM

Avoid eBay, and in case you haven't looked already have a shufti at eBuyer.com, Dabs.com, Komplett.co.uk and Overclockers.co.uk

They're the cheapest & have the best service.
January 14, 2007 4:21:53 PM

Yeah I just had a look and there are some really decent prices. Wonder why dealtime did not come up with them? I have just one more decision to make and then it looks like Ill be good to go.

My question is this. Would it be okay to buy an LCD TV as a PC monitor? I would love to get a nice HD one so it would go nicely for when I buy my xbox 360 etc. I realise that I would need a 8800 GTX to output smoothly on a nice 30"+. Are they worse than proper computer monitors? And if so, by a lot?
January 14, 2007 4:49:33 PM

A computer monitor can run at resolutions in excess of the resolutions afforded to even high-definition displays. However a 30" HDTV, provided it's compatible with at least 1080i resolution, will provide indistinguishable performance to a 'regular' PC screen.

However, 720p displays will be of inferior resolution to most PC displays.

You may wish to consider SLi if you're going to be running at that high a resolution (1600x1200 or over).
January 14, 2007 5:03:42 PM

Okay, so I adjusted the list to:

Motherboard - Asus P5B Deluxe (Socket 775) PCI-Express DDR2

Processor - Core 2 Duo E6600 2.40 Ghz Retail package


Graphics Card (Off ebay) - ATI RADEON 850 XT 256MB (for about 4 months, then upgrade to DX10 card)


PSU (Already have) - Hiper HPU 4S525 525W SLI CERTIFIED


Hard drive - Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 320GB ST3320620AS SATA-II 16MB Cache - OEM


RAM - OCZ 2GB (2 x 1GB) PC2-8000 Dual Channel Titanium Alpha XTC Series DDR2


Sound Card - Creative X-Fi Xtreme Gamer Fatal1ty Professional Soundcard - Retail


Cases - Antec Nine Hundred Ultimate Gaming case


Cooling - Tuniq Tower 120 CPU Cooler


Optical Drives - NEC AD-7173A-0B Labelflash Black 18x DVD±RW Dual Layer


Monitor - current one will do till I get the new card.

Thanks everyone for your input. Will likely start ordering everything next week, can't wait! :D 
January 14, 2007 5:38:42 PM

Quote:
Ive slowly been able to gather up some money together so I can build my first PC, my xbox is starting to get a little lame. The thing I want to avoid is buying the wrong stuff. Done some google searching and have come up with this system. Would greatly appreciate your thoughts.

MB

Gigabyte GA_965P_DS3 (Socket 775) PCI-Express DDR2 Motherboard
Asus P5B Deluxe (Socket 775) PCI-Express DDR2 Motherboard

Either one should work fine. But you may want to seriously consider a MB with the nVidea chipset if you are primarily interested in Gaming. Intel chipsets don't support SLi, but nVidea's do. SLi setups do provide better gaming performance. Also, make sure that the board has enough slots - especially PCI slots.

Processor

Core 2 Duo E6600 2.40 Ghz Retail package


Should be fine. But you may want to consider an alternative approach, especially since you say you will OC. Get the E6300 for now and overclock it a little more aggressively. You will save some cash, that can go to other components. I make this suggestion on the basis of the following: Intel is in the process of releasing Quad core etc CPUs fairly soon - prices on the "less powerful" CPUs will drop, and you "should" be able to upgrade the C2D CPU to a higher level than your current proposition for a very good price. Note that the liklihood of exchanging any other components like RAM or Soundcard or even Video card before upgrading CPU is generally unlikely. In your particular case, see below, this is not true, but I think you are making the correct choice.

Graphics Card (OFF EBAY, just for little while till DX10 cards go down)
ATI RADEON 850 XT 256MB
ATI RADEON 850 XT PE 256MB

Sounds very good. At last someone who is thinking and spending strategically. You may want to take a very close look at the ATI AIW cards since you say that you are interested in video capture / editing / conversion. In any case, since ATI haven't released the direct competitor to nVidea's 8800 series which are DX-10, waiting a few months is not a bad idea. Not to mention that little review on THG that appears to show that the 8800 cards work best with the most powerful CPU - expensive card and works best with most expensive CPU. I'd wait for some real competition myself.

PSU (Already have)

Hiper HPU - 4S525 525W SLI CERTIFIED

Hard drive

Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 320GB ST3320620AS SATA-II 16MB Cache - OEM (I don't really think I'll do any raid setups)


The drive is good. But see comments below.

You may want to consider a 2-drive set-up as follows: Drive 1 / boot-root drive is a 150GB WD Raptor, Drive 2 is your Seagate for data, but perhaps a little smaller capacity, unless you are doing a lot of A/V stuff. Partiton as follows:

Raptor
root partition of ~40 GB for OS, Utilities, App-related files that must go on C:\, fonts etc, a windows page/swap file set up to be permanent, and enough space for temporary and spool files.

Apps partition of ~ 10 to 20 GB for all your major apps like Office Suites, A/V editing software etc.

Games partition that fills remaining space for your games.

Seagate Barracuda: 2, maybe 3 partitons for your data iles and downloads. Makes backing things up easier.

Detailed explanations for the setup are in another thread in this forum - look it up; within the last week or so.
Edit See the following for details:

http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=217049&highlight=

You may also want to consider setting up a dual boot system with Linux. You will need to create 2 primary partitions on the boot drive and a small transfer partition on the data drive.

Best choice of Linux distro in your case, if you go with this setup, is SuSe. You should also get a copy of Partition Magic.

RAM

OCZ 2GB (2 x 1GB) PC2-8000 Dual Channel Titanium Alpha XTC Series DDR2

No Problems here

Sound Cards

Creative X-Fi Xtreme Gamer Soundcard - Retail
Creative X-Fi Xtreme Gamer Fatal1ty Professional Soundcard - Retail

Unless you desperately need the extra software and drive-bay connectors included with the Fatality Professional card, I recommend that you get basic bare-bones OEM card. The stuff available for download is amazing. You can always get the extra hardware direct from Creative Labs, along with the specialized software. I urge you to visit Creative's web site for more details. You should also factor in how much you want to spend on speakers.

Cases

Antec Nine Hundred Ultimate Gaming case
Thermaltake VA3000SWA Tsunami Dream SuperMidi Aluminium Tower
CoolerMaster Ammo 533 Aluminum (No PSU) - Silver
Thermaltake VD1000BWS Aguila SuperMidi Tower - Black

Also take a very close look at the Armor Jr from Thermaltake

Cooling

Tuniq Tower 120 CPU Cooler
+ maybe some other crap for extra cooling

I have seen some comments in various threads here that appear to suggest that this particular brand may be difficult to get and support may be a serious issue. You may want to follow up on this and expand your selection.

Optical Drives

Pioneer DVR-111BK 16x16 DVD±RW Dual Layer ReWriter - (Black) OEM
Samsung SH-182MRSMN 18x18 DVD±RW Dual Layer Lightscribe ReWriter - Retail

You should also look at the LG line. They are very good. Plextor has some nice units as well, but they tend to be overpriced. To the best of my knowledge, Plextor is the only current source for DVD drives / burners that have a SATA interface. This may be an issue.


Mostly will be used for gaming and the rest just for casual music listening/ encoding, little bit of video conversion/encoding etc.........
Would like to start doing a bit of overclocking as well. If Ive been stupid and picked a few silly things then please say. Only way I will learn. Thanks very much in advance.

No worries. And it is so refereshing to see a polite request for assistance. See also additional comments below.


More points to ponder:

You haven't specified which version of XP you are contemplating. Get the Pro version. See http://www.annoyances.org FAQs for details.

I note that you haven't said anything about a floppy drive or card reader. You may want to consider one of those combo 3.5" FD -Multiformat card reader USB drives. And a USB Jump Drive is a very useful item.

You may want to seriously consider getting both a DVD ROM drive and a DVD burner, along with a Y-splitter sound connecter cable. Makes copying stuff easier and more efficient.

Monitor specs / type you are interested in?

Speakers?

If you are going to OC, you will need to consider a water/liquid cooling system.

Mouse, keyboard you are looking at, especially in context of gaming where there are specialized systems available? Joystick or other game controller you are planning on using?

Do any of your existing peripherals like printers, scanners, etc use "obsolete" interfaces like parallel or serial ports? And do the specific devices you have support a Port-X to USB / Firewire converter?

Are you anticipating re-using any components from existing system in the new system? If not, are you plasnning to dispose of the old system? If you are not planning to dispose of the old system, you may want to consider a KVM switch and using the old box as aLinux platform.

I hope that these comments are useful and helpful.
January 14, 2007 6:16:51 PM

You won't need water to overclock the Core 2 Duo, waste of money imo.

And if you get a lower version than the E6600 go with the E6400, has a higher multiplier so less stressing on motherboard FSP, RAM etc.
a c 84 B Homebuilt system
January 14, 2007 6:54:46 PM

If your primary use is for gaming, then your first priority should be a good vga card. The 8800gts will run any game out there right now; everything else is secondary. Don't waste money on an interim up front. Where can you save?
1) ditch the sound card, if you don't like integrated sound, you can add it later. Besides, sound cards may be fussy to install.
2) ddr2 667 memory is fine, higher speed memory makes a minor difference.
3) gigabyte p965 ds3 is a good board. The only minor complaint is the ide connector is not well placed, but they give you an extra long cable.
It is a bit cheaper than asus.
4) the antec 900 is a nice big case with superb airflow. As a result, it might be a bit noisy and hard to transport . Any case will do, even a small generic cheapie, let your sense of aesthetics decide. You will be looking at it for a long time.
5) Use the supplied retail cpu heat sink. It will give you as much cooling as you need, even for a modest overclock. The real value of higher end coolers is quieter operations.
6) The E6600 is a nice processor. You won't need to overclock it. Consider a E6300. You will likely find that it runs your games just fine with a 8800gts. If not, you can always overclock a bit.
---just my 2 cents. good luck.---
January 14, 2007 8:20:42 PM

There is obviously a lot of stuff that I have not taken into account.

WizardOZ, you gave me some fantastic, detailed ideas/tips. I still was not 100% sure on the mobo although I would like to have SLI available to me, although part of me feels its a little OTT. As much as I would love to have the new nforce 680 mobos, I heard they have quite a few issues with them, but I might of heard wrong. I think they are a little overpriced as well, or are they?

For the DS3 boards I read something about thier RAM haing to be at low voltages for cold boots, causing a bit of a pain for what RAM is available.

I have never overclocked anything before as my intrest in computers only started to develop less than a year ago, from which point I have been trying to learn as much as possible. This being the situation Im not sure if it would be wise for me to get a lower C2D model. I would like to get the x6800 once the new line of Quads C2D series arrive but I heard that they would discontinue the X6800's before that time.

I already have a basic XP OS ready for install although I don't know if this would be wise seeing how it is not a 32-bit version. I want to defo get Vista.

Im still not sure on a sound system and looking into it. Just a decent, cheap and cheerful system would do.

My current PC is about 4 yrs old bought from PC world. You can imagine what kind of peripherals I have and thier interface. I think its a 3Ghz HT northwood processor I have or something like that, apprently quite rare and goes for a fair bit on ebay £60 - £80. Shame I will not selling it as my mum has already said she wants it.



From the looks of it I have underestimated how much this would all cost, will probally have to put a delay for getting the parts next week. :( 

Thank you everyone for taking the time to give me your thoughts and advice, I never expected I would get so much help. Cheers Fellas :wink:
January 14, 2007 10:37:55 PM

Thanks for the positive feedback.

Some other points you may wish to consider.

1) Re Overclocking.

It has become very easy to do this, and the majority of posters here are in favour of it, and there are definitely benefits to overclocking. However, you may want to keep the following details in mind as you consider options. In most cases, overclocking voids your warranty. Additionally, it damages the hardware - nature of the beast- and it requires more complex and expensive cooling solutions. Not to mention using more power up front - see electricity bills for more detail.

Now, this won't be a concern for those advocates here who are flush with cash, and who clearly don't need to worry about stupid and trivial things like rent / mortgage payments, utilities like water, heating and electricity. Not to mention idiocies like groceries and the phone bill. Based on your initial post, I seriously doubt that you are a member of the flush with lots of disposable cash crowd. Mind you, I could be wrong. But if I'm not, keep the big picture and the contents of your wallet in mind.

I personally tend to take a conservative approach to such issues but I do recognize and acknowledge that there are benefits to overclocking. Just as long as one sees and admits the legitimate concerns re OCing and is ready to deal with them.

You will do what you think is appropriate, but I hope thet you will do it in an informed manner - taking both positive and negative aspects into account.

2) The new nForce chipsets for the C2D MBs may be going through some early teething troubles, but I think that this will work itself out "toot sweet" as they say in France. I made this particular suggestion in the context of "future proofing" your system as much as possible. Your present budgetary constraints may go away in future, and you want to be able to do significant upgrades without having to replace major components like your MoBo - a significant extra expense.

3) Your point about DS3 MoBos and RAM compatability issues is reasonable, but easily addressed. All you need to do is check the manufacturer's web-site for RAM compatabilityand go with the recommendations. Mind you, it is frequently the case that you can successfully use "budget" RAM from a particular manufacturer as opposed to the "premium" RAM suggested by the MoBo manufacturer. Note that this may not work and your mileage will vary. You should also ensurew that you hav e copy of MEMTest386 on hand. Freeware, and an extremely usefull RAM tester for problems.

4) You should pay very close attention to the other posts here about upcoming Intel CPUs and pricing. If you don't get into OCing, you will need to compromise on the cost/performance ratio of any CPU you get. If you are willing to accept the risks and costs of OC-ing your persepctive is somewhat wider, but still under budget constraints. No matter what, compromises are necessary.

5) Sound

The cheap on-board sound available on most MoBos is of very poor quality, and uses system resources. A stand-alone sound card is a pretty good idea, not only from a system performance view, but from sound quality. I would recommend that you get an OEM version of the basic X-Fi SB soundcard, and download as much of the "free" stuff from the site as you can. You should do some research on the site comparing the different models of sound cards they sell. It does depend on how important sound quality is to you. I am certain that you will be pleasantly surprised by the performance and quality of a stand-alone card. And it will make a noticeable difference in games, especially since many are hard-coded to take advantage of the features of many models of SB soundcards.

5B) Addtional points re sound and speakers.

Creative labs has a most interesting product for sale, reviewed on THG that you should seriously consider. This device will connect assorted A/V devices like DVD players, VCRs, TVs etc to a set of 5-7.1 speaker systems, giving you a "home theater" set up for significantly reduced costs. Creative is selling the decoder and a decent set of 5.1 speakers for about $200 US. I have a set of speakers that are essentially identical, and they are very nice indeed. The decoder is also able to connect to a PC with a Creative sound card, so you only need one set of speakers.

See the following links for details:

http://www.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=4&subcategory=136&product=9468

http://www.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=4&subcategory=25&product=9137

http://www.denguru.com/2004/01/20/home_theater_quality_sound/


6) Re Vista: Extremely poor idea to get it now / as soon as it comes out. Issue one is security concerns. Issue 2 is hardware requirements and compatability concerns. Issue 3 is software compatability. Wait a minimum of 6 months before upgrading your MS OS to the allegedly "New and Improved" Version. Previous experience is less than positive, and the new hardware requirements will be quite onerous, from what I have read. Patience is a virtue. Your wallet may also constrain yo.

7) send me a PM if you want more details discussion.

Hope this helps
January 14, 2007 11:37:33 PM

Quote:
Okay, so I adjusted the list to:

Motherboard - Asus P5B Deluxe (Socket 775) PCI-Express DDR2

Processor - Core 2 Duo E6600 2.40 Ghz Retail package


Graphics Card (Off ebay) - ATI RADEON 850 XT 256MB (for about 4 months, then upgrade to DX10 card)


PSU (Already have) - Hiper HPU 4S525 525W SLI CERTIFIED I'm Suprised noone caught this... The PSU you have is Not Good. To understand a little better look through ......T. H. I. S. List and choose from at least a Teir 3 power supply.


Hard drive - Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 320GB ST3320620AS SATA-II 16MB Cache - OEM


RAM - OCZ 2GB (2 x 1GB) PC2-8000 Dual Channel Titanium Alpha XTC Series DDR2


Sound Card - Creative X-Fi Xtreme Gamer Fatal1ty Professional Soundcard - Retail


Cases - Antec Nine Hundred Ultimate Gaming case


Cooling - Tuniq Tower 120 CPU Cooler


Optical Drives - NEC AD-7173A-0B Labelflash Black 18x DVD±RW Dual Layer


Monitor - current one will do till I get the new card.

Thanks everyone for your input. Will likely start ordering everything next week, can't wait! :D 


If you are going to overclock you need to have good quality power with some extra power to handle max loads. And if you are getting a DX10 card for this rig in the future you will be glad you have a PSU that will handle the extra draw.
January 15, 2007 8:18:11 AM

Will it not even be okay for now if I don't OC? I understand that I would have to upgrade for the DX10 card.

Also, are Intel motherboards any good? Are there any decent MB's out that can fit a Quad core processor as well? This is so that I can maybe upgrade later when they bring out the new lot which in turn will hopefully be a lot cheaper. I read that most games at the moment do not take full advantage of the 4 cores but apperntly some developers are already desining games that can.

Its not like the C2D E**** series will be old tech in the next 2 years right?
January 15, 2007 12:16:30 PM

Quote:
Thanks for the positive feedback.



5) Sound

The cheap on-board sound available on most MoBos is of very poor quality, and uses system resources. A stand-alone sound card is a pretty good idea, not only from a system performance view, but from sound quality. I would recommend that you get an OEM version of the basic X-Fi SB soundcard, and download as much of the "free" stuff from the site as you can. You should do some research on the site comparing the different models of sound cards they sell. It does depend on how important sound quality is to you. I am certain that you will be pleasantly surprised by the performance and quality of a stand-alone card. And it will make a noticeable difference in games, especially since many are hard-coded to take advantage of the features of many models of SB soundcards.


Hope this helps


I agree with everything else you say WizardOz, but I believe there is almost no noticable difference in sound quality unless you have the speakers to go along with a high end sound card. Even if there is, an X-Fi is probably overkill, and I would like to see some benchies where a sound card has made a "noticable difference" in games.
January 15, 2007 1:20:45 PM

Yep... brand new board... give it a few weeks before you purchase to make sure it has what it takes.

It is also a Crossfire board so no Nvidia SLI in the future unless there is a hack available.

And like before I would still highly recommend Not using that PSU simply because it is of Poor quality. If you are going to use expensive new components especially Harddrives then do yourself this favor.

Get a new PSU
January 15, 2007 4:41:07 PM

Quote:
Yep... brand new board... give it a few weeks before you purchase to make sure it has what it takes.

It is also a Crossfire board so no Nvidia SLI in the future unless there is a hack available.

And like before I would still highly recommend Not using that PSU simply because it is of Poor quality. If you are going to use expensive new components especially Harddrives then do yourself this favor.

Get a new PSU


Why does everyone slate Hiper ?

There a brilliant brand and their PSUs are fine, I admit though if you want an 8800GTS you may want something with more Wattage.

Quote:
Now, this won't be a concern for those advocates here who are flush with cash, and who clearly don't need to worry about stupid and trivial things like rent / mortgage payments, utilities like water, heating and electricity. Not to mention idiocies like groceries and the phone bill. Based on your initial post, I seriously doubt that you are a member of the flush with lots of disposable cash crowd. Mind you, I could be wrong. But if I'm not, keep the big picture and the contents of your wallet in mind.


actually it's more likely the preson who DOESNT have much money that will overclock their products. Plus the extra on the electricity is hardly antyhing, make up for it by turning the TV off instead of having it on standby. And lastly you don't need to spend that much money on overclocking solutions, a £15 Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 will do.
January 15, 2007 6:38:54 PM

Quote:


And like before I would still highly recommend Not using that PSU simply because it is of Poor quality. If you are going to use expensive new components especially Harddrives then do yourself this favor.

Get a new PSU


Why does everyone slate Hiper ?

There a brilliant brand and their PSUs are fine, I admit though if you want an 8800GTS you may want something with more Wattage.


I was thinking of buying a Hiper PSU, does anyone else have any opinions about their quality, they seem v. good for those on a budget?
January 15, 2007 7:38:19 PM

Well before I bought the one I have, I read loads of decent reiviews on them. Not just from Hardware sities but on ebuyer.co.uk, overclockers etc. Reason why I was a bit supprised with PCAnalyst saying that they are of poor quality.
January 15, 2007 8:53:04 PM

Teir 4 PSU

Quote:
Tier 4 is recommended for stock or low power systems if Tier 3's are more expensive or are not available.


If his primary use is for Gaming, he is going to vista, in turn wanting DX10 capable cards... considering 8800GTS... DDR2 800 memory, an overclocking Mobo (not sure about Oc'ing)... I just thought it would be wise.
January 15, 2007 9:05:18 PM

I recently did an E6600 build with a Hiper Type-M 580w PSU. Great unit, working sold as a rock and top quality (well packaged and came with great cables).

@ the OP - I notice you mentioned that your Xbox was 'getting kinda lame' - you should softmod it (for free) with Xbox Media Center and turn it into a HTPC. It still plays games any everything, just it has a wicked good dashboard with an awesome media player.
January 15, 2007 9:58:43 PM

Quote:


I agree with everything else you say WizardOz, but I believe there is almost no noticable difference in sound quality unless you have the speakers to go along with a high end sound card. Even if there is, an X-Fi is probably overkill, and I would like to see some benchies where a sound card has made a "noticable difference" in games.


It has been my direct experience that the Realtek sound chips in particular are crap. Ignoring for a moment the issue of sound quality, two other important concerns arise:

1) the total amplification capability of the onboard sound is much lower than in a standalone card.

2) onboard sound does in fact use system resources. Sufficent that a stand-alone sound card can result in an improvement in frame-rate of as much as 15%. Realistically speaking, the more likely improvement is along the lines of 5% to 19%, but every bit helps. See the thread titled FYI: frame rates and sound cards (approximately) for a long and detailed discussion. The thread was started in mid-September 06, and the OP is Slava.

Factoring in sound quality, the only on-board chips that are any good are the Creative Labs and some Southbridges from nVidea. But these are rare and more expensive. You would be pleasantly surprised at the improvement in sound quality through the same speakers between on-board and stand alone sound card.

Base OEM X-Fi card is not really overkill.
January 15, 2007 10:37:39 PM

Quote:

Now, this won't be a concern for those advocates here who are flush with cash, and who clearly don't need to worry about stupid and trivial things like rent / mortgage payments, utilities like water, heating and electricity. Not to mention idiocies like groceries and the phone bill. Based on your initial post, I seriously doubt that you are a member of the flush with lots of disposable cash crowd. Mind you, I could be wrong. But if I'm not, keep the big picture and the contents of your wallet in mind.


actually it's more likely the preson who DOESNT have much money that will overclock their products. Plus the extra on the electricity is hardly antyhing, make up for it by turning the TV off instead of having it on standby. And lastly you don't need to spend that much money on overclocking solutions, a £15 Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 will do.

The selective and partial quote of my point about available cash you are using is not doing your argument any good.

The full point I made was that concerns about having to prematurely replace often expensive hardware or not having any warranty support available are characteristic of people who actually do have lots of extra cash available for discretionary spending. And that such individuals don't have to worry about the basic bills.

The comment about extra on the electricity is foolish - we are in a time when PSUs with outputs of >800 W are routinely recommended, and if lots of OC is being proposed, >1000 W. And these units have efficiency of 85% at best. And these systems are left running 24/7. As for taking the TV (or Stereo, or DVD player or VCR etc) off standby, the only way to do this is by unplugging it from the wall. And there goes all your programming of channels and all the other settings. I don't see this happening for some reason.

You really need to do a much better job of logic, fact and detail tracking when debating issues like this one.

As far as cooling systems go, the consensus opinion even at the official pages of THG (among others) is that serious overclocking absolutely requires water cooling. You may want to review your asumptions.

As a final point, I have never seen anyone who is counting their cash closely indulge in aftermarket performance improvements of either the car they drive or the computer they have. Hobbies like that are expensive. And all this before we discusss the issue of software piracy and who are some of the worst offenders there.
January 15, 2007 10:58:21 PM

Quote:
I recently did an E6600 build with a Hiper Type-M 580w PSU. Great unit, working sold as a rock and top quality (well packaged and came with great cables).

@ the OP - I notice you mentioned that your Xbox was 'getting kinda lame' - you should softmod it (for free) with Xbox Media Center and turn it into a HTPC. It still plays games any everything, just it has a wicked good dashboard with an awesome media player.


Thanks for the tip but it has been done with a nice samsung 400GB full of games and movies. (all done by softmod :)  ) And your right about XBMC being an amazing dashboard. Curious to know, can the xbox output HD formats. Great if it can, gives me more of a reason to buy a HD LCD.
January 16, 2007 8:13:47 AM

Quote:

Thanks for the tip but it has been done with a nice samsung 400GB full of games and movies. (all done by softmod Smile ) And your right about XBMC being an amazing dashboard. Curious to know, can the xbox output HD formats. Great if it can, gives me more of a reason to buy a HD LCD.


Always great to find someone else with a modded Xbox, XBMC really is a great front-end for an HTPC!

As far as I know you can get an HD-out adapter for the Xbox - just Googled it, and this is what you need. It outputs in up to 1080i, and I'm pretty sure than if your network connection is fast enough you can stream that to XBMC you can watch full HD content through Xbox '1'.

I read somewhere maybe you can't do it with an Xbox with a 4034-kernel because the encoder wasn't good enough, but mine's a 4034 kernel and has the encoder required to output HD so I'm guessing that you can do it with any Xbox.

A question for you (just breifly before I return your thread to you), in XBMC (I'm running last September's T3CH build) can you set it so it automatically goes to a specific XBMSP server (i.e. the specific computer with all my content and CCXStream on it) when you click on 'My Videos'? It's not a major thing, but it saves me a couple of button clicks. Cheers!
January 16, 2007 8:52:56 AM

Quote:

Now, this won't be a concern for those advocates here who are flush with cash, and who clearly don't need to worry about stupid and trivial things like rent / mortgage payments, utilities like water, heating and electricity. Not to mention idiocies like groceries and the phone bill. Based on your initial post, I seriously doubt that you are a member of the flush with lots of disposable cash crowd. Mind you, I could be wrong. But if I'm not, keep the big picture and the contents of your wallet in mind.


actually it's more likely the preson who DOESNT have much money that will overclock their products. Plus the extra on the electricity is hardly antyhing, make up for it by turning the TV off instead of having it on standby. And lastly you don't need to spend that much money on overclocking solutions, a £15 Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 will do.

The selective and partial quote of my point about available cash you are using is not doing your argument any good.

The full point I made was that concerns about having to prematurely replace often expensive hardware or not having any warranty support available are characteristic of people who actually do have lots of extra cash available for discretionary spending. And that such individuals don't have to worry about the basic bills.

The comment about extra on the electricity is foolish - we are in a time when PSUs with outputs of >800 W are routinely recommended, and if lots of OC is being proposed, >1000 W. And these units have efficiency of 85% at best. And these systems are left running 24/7. As for taking the TV (or Stereo, or DVD player or VCR etc) off standby, the only way to do this is by unplugging it from the wall. And there goes all your programming of channels and all the other settings. I don't see this happening for some reason.

Ever heard of the on/off button ?

You really need to do a much better job of logic, fact and detail tracking when debating issues like this one.

Yeah, sure thing...

As far as cooling systems go, the consensus opinion even at the official pages of THG (among others) is that serious overclocking absolutely requires water cooling. You may want to review your asumptions.

Why would he be doing serious overclocking ? This will be his first experience overclocking something...

As a final point, I have never seen anyone who is counting their cash closely indulge in aftermarket performance improvements of either the car they drive or the computer they have. Hobbies like that are expensive. And all this before we discusss the issue of software piracy and who are some of the worst offenders there.

Counting cash closely ? He has £1000 to spend, i'm sure he can fit a £15 third party HS/F in there...



I don't really want to start an argument, but meh
January 16, 2007 1:14:10 PM

Quote:

Thanks for the tip but it has been done with a nice samsung 400GB full of games and movies. (all done by softmod Smile ) And your right about XBMC being an amazing dashboard. Curious to know, can the xbox output HD formats. Great if it can, gives me more of a reason to buy a HD LCD.


Always great to find someone else with a modded Xbox, XBMC really is a great front-end for an HTPC!

As far as I know you can get an HD-out adapter for the Xbox - just Googled it, and this is what you need. It outputs in up to 1080i, and I'm pretty sure than if your network connection is fast enough you can stream that to XBMC you can watch full HD content through Xbox '1'.

I read somewhere maybe you can't do it with an Xbox with a 4034-kernel because the encoder wasn't good enough, but mine's a 4034 kernel and has the encoder required to output HD so I'm guessing that you can do it with any Xbox.

A question for you (just breifly before I return your thread to you), in XBMC (I'm running last September's T3CH build) can you set it so it automatically goes to a specific XBMSP server (i.e. the specific computer with all my content and CCXStream on it) when you click on 'My Videos'? It's not a major thing, but it saves me a couple of button clicks. Cheers!

Thats good to know, gives me more of a reason to buy a HD LCD.

As for your question, I really can't say. I have never streamed anything from my computer to the xbox. The best place to go would be xboxscene.com forums.
January 16, 2007 1:19:25 PM

It seems Im getting mixed messages from everyone. With arrival of DDR3, tweaking to recently released hardware/software, price cuts etc. Should I actually build a system this month or wait it out?
a c 84 B Homebuilt system
January 16, 2007 1:59:09 PM

What is your objective? At any point in time, there is always something better and cheaper just around the corner; you could wait forever. If you want a PC to use and play games with, then get a good value/less than high end system that meets your current needs now. If you want to play with overclocking and performance for it's own sake, then get a lower end overclockable system and try it out. Realize that unless you pay insane amounts of cash, you can not get the ultimate in performance that is talked about in these forums. Overclocking is not a free lunch. It voids your warranty, reduces the life of your processor, and it requires more cash to be spent on cooling and quietness and other components. If you simply want a good machine to use, then take the simple route and spend more on the components that really matter to you.
January 16, 2007 2:08:14 PM

I totally agree, so the best thing to do is choose the most beneficial time to build, which I though was this year. I’m defiantly not someone who strives for the best possible thing out, even if I had the money. Even F.E.A.R, Condemned, Dawn of War series on my 6800 GT OC met my requirements and was to my satisfaction. My major issue is that I do not want to build a system and then half a year later need to upgrade, with the exception of a graphics card and possibly the processor. I would at least like the new system to last 2 years, even if this meant extending my budget.
January 16, 2007 4:47:07 PM

Last year...2005 November I built a system. I researched all the components and decided to do a Low end build.

X2 3800+ CPU
DDR400 RAM
X800GTO Vid Card
300GB Seagate
Hauppage WinTV350
SoundBlaster 24Bit
MSI Nforce4 Neo 4 Platinum

Needless to say it was outdated in May of 06... It still runs great, though after installing the GIMP I found my system bogging down.

I can Play any game up to those released Q4 06 - on Max settings, but it is obvious that will change soon enough.

Had I decided on better components I would have seen no change to where I am at.

Had I gone with the absolute Best I would still be satisfied with my system, and also very hesitant in buying a new system - even now when M$ has imposed such rediculous constraints on gamers by requiring an OS upgrade to get the benefits(or Supposed Benefits) of DX10.

Though I spent upwards of $2000 on my previous system, it was done at increments that I did not feel as much as if I had dropped the entire amount at once.

At the Rate things are going you cannot satiate your desires for more than a month at the High end.

With talk about PCIe 2.0 and DDR3, and Solid State HDDs, & GDDR4 GPUs and BioNeural Volostic Carbon Hydro Liquid Interface environments, I too feel less enthused about my current $4000 Build.

But... once the bugs get worked out... I will just stop reading Tech articles for a while... YEAH... That should do it.
January 16, 2007 6:54:35 PM

Okay screw it. I’m going to build a system this year. Ill have a better job next year (I hope) to buy new stuff and I hardly ever buy anything for myself with the exception of my super league pool table 2 months ago. But that was only £260 off ebay. Cheers fellas for all your help, keep up the good work.

I probably will not buy anything for another 2 weeks, so if anyone thinks of anything else I would greatly appreciate their thoughts.
January 17, 2007 12:37:23 AM

Go for it. Get the best system you can afford. Just remember not confuse ber the following points:

1) apply strategic spending as much as possible / appropriate.

2) do not confuse pissing contests with useful system components and advice. Always remember that the majority of the components like CPU, gfx card etc can always be upgraded later. Check your budget carefully.

3) try to maintain perspective. Don't get stampeeded into optionds like overclocking that are neither wanted or necessary.

4) never forget the "secondary" stuff like the OS, apps, games and other software you need, along with trivial things like mouse, keyboard, monitor, printer, scanner and any other peripherals you need.

Good Luck.
January 17, 2007 1:57:25 AM

Quote:

Now, this won't be a concern for those advocates here who are flush with cash, and who clearly don't need to worry about stupid and trivial things like rent / mortgage payments, utilities like water, heating and electricity. Not to mention idiocies like groceries and the phone bill. Based on your initial post, I seriously doubt that you are a member of the flush with lots of disposable cash crowd. Mind you, I could be wrong. But if I'm not, keep the big picture and the contents of your wallet in mind.


actually it's more likely the preson who DOESNT have much money that will overclock their products. Plus the extra on the electricity is hardly antyhing, make up for it by turning the TV off instead of having it on standby. And lastly you don't need to spend that much money on overclocking solutions, a £15 Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 will do.

The selective and partial quote of my point about available cash you are using is not doing your argument any good.

The full point I made was that concerns about having to prematurely replace often expensive hardware or not having any warranty support available are characteristic of people who actually do have lots of extra cash available for discretionary spending. And that such individuals don't have to worry about the basic bills.

The comment about extra on the electricity is foolish - we are in a time when PSUs with outputs of >800 W are routinely recommended, and if lots of OC is being proposed, >1000 W. And these units have efficiency of 85% at best. And these systems are left running 24/7. As for taking the TV (or Stereo, or DVD player or VCR etc) off standby, the only way to do this is by unplugging it from the wall. And there goes all your programming of channels and all the other settings. I don't see this happening for some reason.

Ever heard of the on/off button ?

Man, you are a classic example of a RDF. What exactly do you think "Standby Mode" means? Why do you think your TV comes on so fast when you "turn it on"? These two details are directly connected. You are, by your own comments, far too young to know any different from experience. Tragically, this is no excuse for either your ignorance or poor attitude.

You really need to do a much better job of logic, fact and detail tracking when debating issues like this one.

Yeah, sure thing...

Oh yeah, absolutely and without any doubt at all. See previous point. Even more evidence and proof that you are truly a RDF. See below for additional proof.

As far as cooling systems go, the consensus opinion even at the official pages of THG (among others) is that serious overclocking absolutely requires water cooling. You may want to review your asumptions.

Why would he be doing serious overclocking ? This will be his first experience overclocking something...

Well, as I recall, you were the one who suggested over-clocking the OP's system in the first place. To meet fairly advanced specs that are best and most accurately described as "serious overclocking". You may wish to consider a review of both your ADHD meds dosage and the basic diagnosis of how severe your case of ADHD really is. Your post makes it absolutely clear that not only are you a RDF, but you can't even remember what you yourself said earlier. A clear symptom of ADHD. Check your meds please. Before you hurt yourself.

As a final point, I have never seen anyone who is counting their cash closely indulge in aftermarket performance improvements of either the car they drive or the computer they have. Hobbies like that are expensive. And all this before we discusss the issue of software piracy and who are some of the worst offenders there.

Counting cash closely ? He has £1000 to spend, i'm sure he can fit a £15 third party HS/F in there...

As I recall, the OP was quite clear that it took them quite some time to save up that amount of cash to spend on a computer system. Which the OP also made clear was discretionary spending, Now, in my experience (I'm 48, so I've been around the block more than twice), anyone who even hints, let alone clearly indicates, that any amount of "discretionary" cash they have available was hard-won is, by definition, counting their cash very closely. Your final comment is not especailly helpful or reasonable. Or intelligent, for that matter. OOOPS.

Not only are you clearly a RDF, even worse, you are a REMF. You would be fragged if you were an officer in any branch of the military.


I don't really want to start an argument, but meh

UH HUH.

Sure you don't. Sadly for you, see following.

This is the last post / comment I will make to you

You are so far below par it is a total waste to attempt communicate with you in any way. You are demonstrably incapable of comunication. See final points below.

You have neither the intellectual, nor cognitive capacity, let alone life experience, to win a legitimate argument with me. Bullying atempts in future don't count.

BTW:

RDF = Real Dumb F***

REMF = Rear Echelon Mother F***er

You are fully qualified for both categories - because your own comments make it clear that you are a very strong Darwin Award Candidate.
January 17, 2007 9:33:32 AM

...Shake hands and make up ?

I don't exactly think im a "RDF" and whatever the hell else you said.

Why do you think that ?

Just because I said about turning the TV off (which I gather I got worng from all the insults I received form you) ?

And if you read the OPs first post he talks about overclocking.
January 17, 2007 12:39:29 PM

Yeah if you get an 8800 card you will probably need a new PSU. Theres a 700w X-Clio on Scan for £65ish, has a few good reviews on the internets.
January 17, 2007 1:04:03 PM

Quote:
Yeah I just had a look and there are some really decent prices. Wonder why dealtime did not come up with them? I have just one more decision to make and then it looks like Ill be good to go.

My question is this. Would it be okay to buy an LCD TV as a PC monitor? I would love to get a nice HD one so it would go nicely for when I buy my xbox 360 etc. I realise that I would need a 8800 GTX to output smoothly on a nice 30"+. Are they worse than proper computer monitors? And if so, by a lot?


It depends on the native resoulution of the TV. Basically TV's have a very low pixel count compared to good monitors for the same money. Also you want one with a DVI input whch a lot of LCD TV's still don't have.
Actually its better to get a computer monitor and use it for a TV than round the other way. Check out the Dell 30".
For some stupid reason if you wanted a TV with a res. that high it would cost a fortune, even though it would probably have exactly the same panel and electronics inside.

The only downside of a monitor is that it doesn't have a tuner or remote, but most people just use their video or sat. box or whatever directly for that anyway.
January 17, 2007 3:12:40 PM

OOOHH!!! Goody!!

A whole new can of worms has just been opened up.

I can hardly wait.
January 17, 2007 5:14:26 PM

The DELL 30" monitor cost over £1000 (even with overclockers deal of the week price). Guess a 22" will have to do.
January 17, 2007 8:13:06 PM

A 30" HDTV is less than that (I've seen them around the £800 mark) and, provided the specification is right, should provide a similar experience resolution-wise. Still, 200 quid difference isn't exactly the earth - I guess we all have to face the fact that 30" displays are something of a luxury!
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