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Started by Chase Goodman | | 9 answers
Right now my computer has the specs of:
cpu= intel core i7 4770k
ram= 16gb 2400mhz
gpu= msi gtx 770 tf 4gb
bootdrive= 240gb ssd
hard-drive= 2tb hdd 7200rpm
motherboard= msi z-97 g-45
I will have a lot of extra money left over from my summer job and instead of buying a car I want to save some of that money and put some in my computer. I was wondering if I should do Dual SLI with my current graphics card (Buy another one for $450) or get the base titan model (which should cost $999). Personally I am thinking about going the dual SLI route. I am also buying a self contained water cooler for cpu and maybe 16 more gbs of 2400mhz ram. Please help me decide my gpu problem!
cpu= intel core i7 4770k
ram= 16gb 2400mhz
gpu= msi gtx 770 tf 4gb
bootdrive= 240gb ssd
hard-drive= 2tb hdd 7200rpm
motherboard= msi z-97 g-45
I will have a lot of extra money left over from my summer job and instead of buying a car I want to save some of that money and put some in my computer. I was wondering if I should do Dual SLI with my current graphics card (Buy another one for $450) or get the base titan model (which should cost $999). Personally I am thinking about going the dual SLI route. I am also buying a self contained water cooler for cpu and maybe 16 more gbs of 2400mhz ram. Please help me decide my gpu problem!
JackNaylorPE
October 17, 2014 5:20:26 PM
Best solution chosen by Chase Goodman
JackNaylorPE
October 17, 2014 2:58:53 PM
geofelt said:
1. I think water cooling is a bad idea.
I have become a bit jaded on the subject of haswell cooling for overclocking.
How high you can OC is firstly determined by your luck in the bin lottery.
I had high expectations from the Devil's canyon parts and their better thermals.
I found out that the thermals really do not matter unless, perhaps, you are a competitive overclocker.
Haswell runs quite cool, that is, until you raise the voltage past 1.25v or so.
Once you go past 1.3v, then you really do need very good cooling to keep stress loads under say 85c.
But, voltages higher than 1.30 are not a good thing for 24/7 usage.
Even if you can handle the heat, how much do you really need that extra multiplier from say 4.4 to 4.6?
2. No game can use more than 2-3 gb. 16gb is plenty. More is good if you are using 64 bit enabled apps.
And.. if your os is better than windows 7 home which is limited to 16gb.
3. Dual cards have some potential issues such as tearing or stuttering. You do get higher fps though.
Do you have the requisite 850w psu to go sli gtx770?
If you can find one, a GTX980 would be a fair upgrade and you can sell the GTX770.
I might wait a bit on a graphics upgrade to see if we get a GTX980ti by the end of the year.
1. I will agree that the thermal advantages of water cooling have decreased in recent years since the gap between temp limits and voltage limits has shrunken but that's not why I water cool. I use water cooling so I can sit at my PC 8 - 12 - 16 hours a day or more and not have to listen to the whir of fans assaulting my ears all day long. If I close my eyes, I don't want to be able to tell the system is on. But that's where our agreement ends
The lottery has an effect, but that basically means can you do 4.5 or 5.0 .... 4.6 would be extremely rare on air at < 75C ... w/o other BIOS features being disabled. I stopped at 4.6 not because I hit temperature limits but because I was getting close to voltage limits. But t wasn't the 1.3v threshold I was worried about, it was 1.5v. It also makes a big difference whether you're running with HT on or off (i5 vs i7) .... about 7C at the same multiplier
The successful usage over the years of thousands of folks contradicts the "voltages higher than 1.30 are not a good thing for 24/7 usage". I have been running my current box 24/7 at 4.6 for a year at 1.385 .... my son's 2600k box is going on 3.5 years at 4.8 Ghz and 1.416 w/ 24/7 usage. Thousands of others are doing the same. Here's a sampling:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjXDCk5eCp...
Those voltages are just fine as long as heat is kept in check. Only reason I stopped at 1.385 and 4.6 is that under Adaptive voltage control AVX adds 0.10 to 0.13 volts and that sent me over 1.5v
One of the biggest dampers of HW / DC OC'ing is you're not going to get any decent OC's on HW / DC if ya don't adjust VCCIN .... been helping a THG member who was stuck at 4.0 .... after adjusting VCCIn, he's now doing stability testing at 4.6.
2. More RAM makes everything run better, no exceptions....might not be a lot, might even be tiny..... but at worse, it decreases page file usage and it's the reason high end gaming MoBo's include RAM disk utilities. THG also wrote:
Quote:
you might want more RAM so the graphics card can allocate more system memory for its own use. We saw this pay dividends in GTA IV, for exampleTry even an old game like Half Life 2 w/ 4 GB ... 35+% performance increase with 8 as compared with 4GB according to THGs 2010 testing 4 years ago. I recommend 8 GB minimum for a gaming system, 16 Gb if also using CAD, Photoshop, video editing as a minimum ...32 GB of you use them all day long.
3. You can run SLI'd 770s on 750 watts, I'd use more if overclocking, card only draws 197 watts factory OC'd
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/msi_geforce_gtx_77...
I have never seen tearing or stuttering in after dozens of SLI builds..... If you use two GTX 545's and you will have problems simply because the card is not a very strong card.... the two 560 Tis have been plugging along for 3+ years and never seen stuttering or tearing in 2D or 3D. Old mantra was "stay above a $200 a card and you won't have problems," .... the 650 Ti Boost brought that down to $150. nVidia doesn't do low end cards in SLI anymore.
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_6...
Quote:
After running the GeForce GTX 650 Ti Boost SLI through our test suite, I have to admit that I'm impressed. The duo delivered performance easily matching and often exceeding much more expensive single-card options such as the GeForce GTX 680 and Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition, and they don't cost as much. SLI multi-GPU scaling works well with all of our titles except for F1 2012. Scaling by going from one to two GTX 650 Ti Boost cards is around 70%, even with F1 2012 taken into account. Unlike AMD, NVIDIA does a good job of maintaining its SLI profiles, so you should be able to play new games without a long wait for multi-GPU support. However, the risk that a game will not be supported still exists, and you might, at worst, end up with single-card performance. This is in my opinion, given the massive performance-per-dollar advantage, an acceptable tradeoff. I would definitely recommend a GTX 650 Ti Boost SLI setup to a friend looking to spend as little money as possible on a high-end gaming rig.With a combined price of $340, the graphics cards cost much less than the HD 7970 GHz Edition ($430) and the GTX 680 ($440) while still delivering comparable performance. Power draw and noise levels are slightly higher, but that's the price you'll have to pay to save over 100 bucks. This setup also makes upgrading your aging rig to play the latest and most demanding titles without breaking the bank an option.
No problems tearing / stuttering problems were noted in the 650 Ti Boost reviews and the 770s are obviously better than the 650 Tis.
If these were 2GB, two 770s are faster than a single 980 and a helluva lot cheaper when you already own one. At $230, a 2nd MSI (2GB) makes perfect sense as it would deliver > performance than a $580 980 for a whole lot less money. Unfortunately here, the 4GB 770s are just very, very rare which complicates the matter quite a bit.
Chase Goodman said:
Forget to mention-My case is the Phantom Full tower, and I have 750 psu. I would have to upgrade that, but that was expected. 1.) I am aware that I would need a new PSU
2.)I would like to upgrade to a 1600p Monitor but I want to upgrade my Graphics card first.
3.)Can I SLI the 770 tf 4gb with the msi 780 ti 3gb? would that be a better option?
4.)And does SLI actually work better than a single Titan?
So I will most likely go with buying a new PSU and the MSI GTX 780 TI 3GB dual SLI with MSI GTX 770 TF 4GB.
-What would be the recommended PSU? For the price and performance.
1. 750 is fine if not overclocking
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/msi_geforce_gtx_77...
Quote:
Here is Guru3D's power supply recommendation:GeForce GTX 770 - On your average system the card requires you to have a 550 Watt power supply unit.
GeForce GTX 770 2-way SLI - On your average system the cards require you to have a 750 Watt power supply unit as minimum.
GeForce GTX 770 3-way SLI - On your average system the cards require you to have a 1000 Watt power supply unit as minimum.
If you are going to overclock your GPU or processor, then we do recommend you purchase something with some more stamina.
Now keep in mind that that recommendation is based upon a 3960x which draws 100 watts more than your CPU.
2. 1600 is getting very rare.... my next investment will be in a RoG Swift w/ GSync (2560 x 1440) @ 144 Hz
3. If you could sell that 4 GB for that $450 upi listed and buy 2 brand new 2 GB ones for $470 (current newegg price for 2), that is a significant 60-70% performance upgrade for just $20. You can't SLI two different cards. Or sell it for $450 and buy two 970s for $700 ... net cost $250 your old PSU is fine. So you'd upgrade a generation and be substantially faster than a 980.
4. Yes, a 980 beats a Titan
Keep in mind that SLI scaling is slanted in the sense that if you get )% advantage, that's figured into the average. Also a game that gets 150 fps with a single card will produce low scaling, maybe 50% or less to say 225 and who cares, you don't need it. But where the impact is greatest is in those demanding games.
Here we see performance almost double in a game where it really matters .... 22.5 fps to 43.3 fps is almost double and look where the 980 gets ya .... a paltry and still unplayable 26.8 fps.
Chase Goodman
October 17, 2014 1:10:59 PM
Forget to mention-My case is the Phantom Full tower, and I have 750 psu. I would have to upgrade that, but that was expected.
1.) I am aware that I would need a new PSU
2.)I would like to upgrade to a 1600p Monitor but I want to upgrade my Graphics card first.
3.)Can I SLI the 770 tf 4gb with the msi 780 ti 3gb? would that be a better option?
4.)And does SLI actually work better than a single Titan?
So I will most likely go with buying a new PSU and the MSI GTX 780 TI 3GB dual SLI with MSI GTX 770 TF 4GB.
-What would be the recommended PSU? For the price and performance.
1.) I am aware that I would need a new PSU
2.)I would like to upgrade to a 1600p Monitor but I want to upgrade my Graphics card first.
3.)Can I SLI the 770 tf 4gb with the msi 780 ti 3gb? would that be a better option?
4.)And does SLI actually work better than a single Titan?
So I will most likely go with buying a new PSU and the MSI GTX 780 TI 3GB dual SLI with MSI GTX 770 TF 4GB.
-What would be the recommended PSU? For the price and performance.
geofelt
October 17, 2014 11:35:54 AM
1.
I think water cooling is a bad idea.
I have become a bit jaded on the subject of haswell cooling for overclocking.
How high you can OC is firstly determined by your luck in the bin lottery.
I had high expectations from the Devil's canyon parts and their better thermals.
I found out that the thermals really do not matter unless, perhaps, you are a competitive overclocker.
Haswell runs quite cool, that is, until you raise the voltage past 1.25v or so.
Once you go past 1.3v, then you really do need very good cooling to keep stress loads under say 85c.
But, voltages higher than 1.30 are not a good thing for 24/7 usage.
Even if you can handle the heat, how much do you really need that extra multiplier from say 4.4 to 4.6?
2. No game can use more than 2-3 gb. 16gb is plenty. More is good if you are using 64 bit enabled apps.
And.. if your os is better than windows 7 home which is limited to 16gb.
3. Dual cards have some potential issues such as tearing or stuttering. You do get higher fps though.
Do you have the requisite 850w psu to go sli gtx770?
If you can find one, a GTX980 would be a fair upgrade and you can sell the GTX770.
I might wait a bit on a graphics upgrade to see if we get a GTX980ti by the end of the year.
4. May I suggest you spend your bonus on a monitor upgrade.
Keep your current monitor as a side monitor for email, monitor apps, etc.
It will not affect your gaming.
Look at a 2560 x 1600 30" monitor or a 2560 x 1440 27" monitor.
It is a bit early, but 4k monitors are coming.
4.
I think water cooling is a bad idea.
I have become a bit jaded on the subject of haswell cooling for overclocking.
How high you can OC is firstly determined by your luck in the bin lottery.
I had high expectations from the Devil's canyon parts and their better thermals.
I found out that the thermals really do not matter unless, perhaps, you are a competitive overclocker.
Haswell runs quite cool, that is, until you raise the voltage past 1.25v or so.
Once you go past 1.3v, then you really do need very good cooling to keep stress loads under say 85c.
But, voltages higher than 1.30 are not a good thing for 24/7 usage.
Even if you can handle the heat, how much do you really need that extra multiplier from say 4.4 to 4.6?
2. No game can use more than 2-3 gb. 16gb is plenty. More is good if you are using 64 bit enabled apps.
And.. if your os is better than windows 7 home which is limited to 16gb.
3. Dual cards have some potential issues such as tearing or stuttering. You do get higher fps though.
Do you have the requisite 850w psu to go sli gtx770?
If you can find one, a GTX980 would be a fair upgrade and you can sell the GTX770.
I might wait a bit on a graphics upgrade to see if we get a GTX980ti by the end of the year.
4. May I suggest you spend your bonus on a monitor upgrade.
Keep your current monitor as a side monitor for email, monitor apps, etc.
It will not affect your gaming.
Look at a 2560 x 1600 30" monitor or a 2560 x 1440 27" monitor.
It is a bit early, but 4k monitors are coming.
4.
JackNaylorPE
October 17, 2014 11:03:34 AM
Too bad it's the 4 GB as the 2 GB models are half that..... I certainly would thro $400 at a 2nd one. And it's not as if the extra 2 GB is doing anything for you
http://alienbabeltech.com/main/gtx-770-4gb-vs-2gb-teste...
If they going for $400, Id sell that one and invest $300 in two MSI GTX 970s
As for cooler, I can't recommend a single CLC as they all get embarrassed by the better air coolers.
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The Swiftech H220-X / H240-X are however highly recommended. See review below
http://www.hitechlegion.com/reviews/cooling/liquid/4087...
http://www.swiftech.com/
I think you will have a hard time maintaining your CPU OC with 4 sticks of RAM.
http://alienbabeltech.com/main/gtx-770-4gb-vs-2gb-teste...
If they going for $400, Id sell that one and invest $300 in two MSI GTX 970s
As for cooler, I can't recommend a single CLC as they all get embarrassed by the better air coolers.

The Swiftech H220-X / H240-X are however highly recommended. See review below
http://www.hitechlegion.com/reviews/cooling/liquid/4087...
http://www.swiftech.com/
I think you will have a hard time maintaining your CPU OC with 4 sticks of RAM.
dish_moose
October 17, 2014 10:58:02 AM
MeteorsRaining
October 17, 2014 10:52:37 AM
nick779
October 17, 2014 10:52:18 AM
LukaBoki
October 17, 2014 10:51:42 AM
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