Second Take: Bioshock's DRM Problem - Page 2 - Video-Feedback

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This whole topic seems to have descended into the realm of paranoia. :sarcastic:

Honestly, I think everyone needs to calm down. Smashing your game with a hammer (and ruining the desk while you're at it) is a perfect analogy for all this. Now you need a new desk! Long after the software developers fix this problem with their publisher, you will STILL need a new desk. :pfff:

For one, I am confident that with the reputation of the development team that actually worked on the game, that this strangely restrictive DRM model they've used was not their idea. Some "genius" :pfff: at the publisher forced this on them. Obviously it was a mistake. Having said that, I'm also sure that they're realizing now that they've just "offended their audience in the worse way possible" and will attempt to eliminate the mistake.

So they screwed up. Name us a company that hasn't. At least the game isn't beta software shoved out the door for Christmas. It's got a couple bugs to patch, but it works. It even supports an Xbox 360 controller if you plug it into your computer and want to run it just like the console version. And the game got great reviews. So there's nothing wrong with the cookies except the box they came in, so to speak, and I've seen too many games that weren't worth the time to play when they came out for incomplete development. And there are way too many games that just plain suck.

For now, because the anti-piracy software the publisher chose to use is manifesting like a nasty bug and the media has latched on (including THG) like bloodthirsty tabloids, it looks bad. But I agree with the sentiment that a model like Steam is a good idea.

Here's why: I don't steal games. I buy them. A lot of them. (Maybe even too many; there are games I've bought I haven't played yet collecting dust.) Being able to have online access to new titles without needing to find them at the store, and USUALLY PAY LESS FOR THEM is appealing in and of itself to me about Steam. It also provides simple copy protection. You log in, you play. You could log in from anywhere, on someone else's computer, download your stuff, and you're good to go. There IS NO disc to lose. You can go back and get it again at any time, or back it up yourself with their utility. In this particular case, I'm sure that Valve will resolve any problems with Bioshock; I seriously doubt their platform would tell you you can't get the game again because 3rd-party DRM would interfere with and is contra to their own relatively elegant system. They've already released a patch on the 22nd to quote "fix uninstall/reinstall issue with Bioshock." I'm sure there will be a couple more of those and then everything will be fine. And by then, hopefully 2K will have re-implemented their own system.

Back to the video: Rob keeps all his stuff. Well, great. And he's concerned about the people that don't. Well, I'm not so sure we should feel sorry for them. If you have a console game, and you ruin your disc, you're SOL. And if you lend out your favorite album on vinyl, that special collector's edition of so-and-so, and it gets lost, then you're hooped. If you lose your car keys, you're in trouble. Who is to say that it's an unreasonable thing to ask that you not throw out your game box or instruction book, etc.? No one feels sorry for you if you screw up losing OTHER things in life. Or, go with a digital distribution model that works, like Steam.

But in either case, the hysteria's a little hard to swallow. My advice is to do what MOST people do with PC games... wait for the price to drop and wait for the first couple of patches to come out, and THEN buy it. Or get the Xbox version. Or get it on Steam.

As for "rootkits" this isn't really a rootkit... it's an overzealous piece of copy protection software that we all know about now, and that is well documented. It's a lot like most of the OTHER CRAP we all install on our PCs that gunks up the windows registry. If it wasn't for that gunk, we wouldn't NEED to reformat our machines very often, remember? The whole thing is very ironic, dontcha think? :sol:

Reply to Retrogame

Register or log in to remove.

It is not about the material, it is about the principle, and they are scum who are infecting your pc with securom filth. I am boycotting the game, the principle and 2k forever, screw them. It is my computer, it is my PERSONAL computer, not their piece of crap developer workspace, they don't get to say what i do on my pc. They dont get to phuck my registry up with their securom crap. I hope that no one buys this shitty game i hope 2k goes under. I am none too happy with steam either.

Protect your assets by all means, but don't you dare touch my 5h17 to do so.

In south africa it is illegal to stop someone form being allowed to break the law. Ie you cannot put governers in public transport. So technically what 2k is doing is illegal in south africa. And thus me buying it will be condoning an illegal action which is also illegal therefore anyone who buys this here deserves community service etc.

I am off to buy galactic civilizations just to prove my point.

I agree with Rob, don't buy it don't steal it don't look at it don't touch it and don't go near it.

Message edited by Rabidpeanut on 08-31-2007 at 11:47:57 AM

Reply to Rabidpeanut

You know, on further consideration, the irony of the situation is extremely funny.

They made it so that if you end up reformatting your computer or reinstalling the game too many times, the game doesn't work. They did this by installing 'invasive crap' in your system. The reason everyone needs to reinstall games and whole operating systems so often (apparently) is because so many kinds of software install 'invasive crap' in their systems. *guffaws* :pt1cable: :lol:

Maybe we should all go out and buy macs instead. I think I'm gonna go play a game on my Nintendo now. hahahaha... :lol:

Reply to Retrogame

except for a few times this past summer i have to call Microsoft and phone activate every time i install windows xp pro. its happened so many times now that its expected and now its not too much of a hassle.
as long as bioshock is updated with patches and theres no spyware then ill be happy. but there is too much fuss over this game because hell man! its not even multiplayer

------------------------------ corei7 920 4GHz HT 1.328vcore 1.312vtt
BloodRage biosP09
ATi 4870 512mb Crossfired
Feser360,mcp655,ek res 150,feser1/2ID tubing.
Reply to rivalneighbour

Why is everyone so pissed about this???? Whats wrong with the activation and the MASSIVE 5 install limit????? Whats wrong with the rootkits???

The people who complain about the above issue are f**king b***es, gay *ite m***er f**kers

Dont you have software like this already on your computer!? Why dont you complain about it? Why dont you make a stance about it?

What software you ask?
Bioshock <--> Microsoft Windows!
Activation: 5 <--> 1
rootkits: you tell me <--> plenty
reg keys: ??? <--> millions of crap you didnt authorise

But hey, at least Windows has a decent return policy 'on paper'

If you got a problem with Bioshock go suck **** *****

Peace

Reply to cruiseoveride

Most of the controversy is with the PC/secuRom issues with Bioshock. I’d like to know why no one is addressing the fact that the 360 version does not have the same level of copy protection. When console games are resold by consumers or game stores or rented, of which Publishers/Devs don’t see a cent, why isn’t 2K putting a limit on the number of 360’s the disc can be played on? When a cracked version of the 360 Bioshock was on torrents launch day, why isn’t 2K implementing an online verification/patch process?

Maybe it’s my indignation over what I perceive as singling out the PC gamer. Is PC piracy really a larger threat to their bottom line than the console used game sales and rental market? I go into a game store and am amazed that the used game section for each console is at least as large, if not larger, than the new games section. There are several brick and mortar and online stores that rent console games. And, there is also a console piracy community as well. Why did 2K effectively ignore all of them and only go after the PC gamer?

Reply to BopTop

Only 5 installs per PC. My copy took 3 installs to work!

@ Bop Top: the normal 360 gamer doesn't know that you can get cracked discs and burn them yourself. All they know is that you have to buy the game to play it. So basically the 360 gamer is NOT a PC gamer. He went out and bought a piece of hardware, we put ours together.

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Message edited by The Lentzinator on 08-31-2007 at 05:26:09 PM

Reply to The Lentzinator

Well after watching the video I had some ideas (they were brilliant, of course) so I came to the forum only to find that everyone else had the same ideas (Use Steam's one at a time system, use MAC filtering, etc). I guess everyone here is brilliant. Anyway since my main point has already been co-opted, I wanted to chip in my two cents on the DRM issue, and it's effect on PC gaming.
I think the fault for DRM software lies solely at the feet of hackers (actually, crackers) everywhere, and the thieves who will go online and download the cracked games/movies/music that they put up. This is a chicken and egg scenario if I've ever seen one: the game developers are merely trying to protect themselves. DRM is necessary only because PC gamers cannot be trusted to buy what they use and use what they buy. I'm not suggesting that 2K has handled this the right way; they definitely should have made users aware of the restrictions prior to purchasing.
If you want to know what will kill PC gaming, if anything, its the shrinking revenues from games that get pirated. If the profits dry up, the development companies will find other ways to make money and we won't have good games to play.

Reply to prolfe

I will destroy anyone who I know to be a part of DRM. Consider your lives threatened, I will beat you with a industrial grade rubber mallet named Dupre!

What if secureRom ceases to exist.. or what if in 30 years someone wants to play the game again but can't get support and thus they can't get a key reset and thus can't install the game.

Again I will mutilate anyone who is part of DRM. I will beat you with a mallet named Dupre!

Reply to sweeper240

Quote :

This whole topic seems to have descended into the realm of paranoia. :sarcastic:

Honestly, I think everyone needs to calm down. Smashing your game with a hammer (and ruining the desk while you're at it) is a perfect analogy for all this. Now you need a new desk! Long after the software developers fix this problem with their publisher, you will STILL need a new desk. :pfff:

Yes, the desk was an unfortunate casualty. But hey, it was a cheap piece of junk and we needed new furniture anyway.

Quote :

For one, I am confident that with the reputation of the development team that actually worked on the game, that this strangely restrictive DRM model they've used was not their idea. Some "genius" :pfff: at the publisher forced this on them. Obviously it was a mistake. Having said that, I'm also sure that they're realizing now that they've just "offended their audience in the worse way possible" and will attempt to eliminate the mistake.

So they screwed up. Name us a company that hasn't. At least the game isn't beta software shoved out the door for Christmas. It's got a couple bugs to patch, but it works. It even supports an Xbox 360 controller if you plug it into your computer and want to run it just like the console version. And the game got great reviews. So there's nothing wrong with the cookies except the box they came in, so to speak, and I've seen too many games that weren't worth the time to play when they came out for incomplete development. And there are way too many games that just plain suck.

For now, because the anti-piracy software the publisher chose to use is manifesting like a nasty bug and the media has latched on (including THG) like bloodthirsty tabloids, it looks bad. But I agree with the sentiment that a model like Steam is a good idea.

I see what your saying, Retrogame. And to an extent, I agree. I gave BioShock a 9.5 out of 10 in my review and didn't mention anything about SecuROM or DRM. Why? It's a seperate issue that has nothing to do with the content of the game. And I agree with you -- I don't think Irrational Games/2K Boston/2K Australia was aware of the situation, and think this is something that probably came from the publisher and parent company. So I don't blame the developers for this one, and I take them at their word that they are working diligently to fix all problems. However, ignoring the issue and pretending the problem doesn't exist just because BioShock is a great title doesn't seem exactly fair to me.

Quote :

Why is everyone so pissed about this???? Whats wrong with the activation and the MASSIVE 5 install limit????? Whats wrong with the rootkits???

Don't pay any attention to Cruiseoveride. This man is clearly drunk.

Quote :

Most of the controversy is with the PC/secuRom issues with Bioshock. I’d like to know why no one is addressing the fact that the 360 version does not have the same level of copy protection. When console games are resold by consumers or game stores or rented, of which Publishers/Devs don’t see a cent, why isn’t 2K putting a limit on the number of 360’s the disc can be played on? When a cracked version of the 360 Bioshock was on torrents launch day, why isn’t 2K implementing an online verification/patch process?

Maybe it’s my indignation over what I perceive as singling out the PC gamer. Is PC piracy really a larger threat to their bottom line than the console used game sales and rental market? I go into a game store and am amazed that the used game section for each console is at least as large, if not larger, than the new games section. There are several brick and mortar and online stores that rent console games. And, there is also a console piracy community as well. Why did 2K effectively ignore all of them and only go after the PC gamer?

BopTop, you make an excellent point. It's a bad situation of PC gamers. I'm not about to suggest this is intentional, though some people feel it's part of a master plan by Sony, Microsoft, etc. to kill PC gaming and build up the console market. Now THAT would be the kind of the paranoia and hysteria Retrogame is talking about.

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Message edited by robwright on 08-31-2007 at 06:37:31 PM

Reply to robwright

i would just like to quote one of the earlier posts.

-
DRM is like a lock on a glass door, it will keep the neighbors out, but will not stop a thief.
-

DRM doesn't hurt the crackers, it only hurts the people who actually want to buy the game and those kind of people who dont format their windows every month, and instead install dumb tweaking software to speed it up. Yeah, you know the kind, the ones that right click on the desktop and click "Refresh" periodically.

As long as you can see/read something you can copy it, if you have storage space.

There are so many ways of implementing "DRM" that do not piss people off. I used to work for a company that provided DRM solutions (to Sony, Microsoft, Banks etc...).

Have any of you actually used expensive software? Well for those who dont know how copy protection on high end software works, its like this... with the software, you are sold a small token, usually called a dongle, special proprietary hardware. This dongle contains a certificate signed against your registration information that the software checks each time you try and run it.

You can copy cds/dvds etc.. but you cannot copy HSM tokens.

Message quoted 1 times

Reply to cruiseoveride

Playing a Game is not a business proposition. If a game company wants to pay me to play their game, sure I'll use a dongle. But if its for my own entertainment thus I have no need for a license or a dongle because I am not making money from the use of said software.

Reply to sweeper240

cruiseoveride wrote :

Have any of you actually used expensive software? Well for those who dont know how copy protection on high end software works, its like this... with the software, you are sold a small token, usually called a dongle, special proprietary hardware. This dongle contains a certificate signed against your registration information that the software checks each time you try and run it.

You can copy cds/dvds etc.. but you cannot copy HSM tokens.

The closest thing we have to a token in the gaming world is Steam, or other games that require constant online access, like MMORPGs. With the availability of Internet access in today's world, I think it would be acceptable practice to require online access, even for a single-player game. All that would be required is that the player login to his account to begin play. Then, the Internet could be disconnected for the remainder of the gaming session and an account could only be logged into once at any given time. This would allow everyone (face it, everyone who plays 3D PC games has an Internet connection of some kind) to play games legitimately without bugging them with the spectre of DRM software. In the case of Steam, it could also allow players more access to their games by allowing them to D/L the games they OWN to whatever computer they're at. I, for one, would be happy to sign up for a system like that!

Reply to prolfe

well guys, you got what you payed for. you want it to be legit?
well, they don't care about that. you bought an original copy of
bioshock and it doesn't work? oh, it came with drm? tough
luck, boys. now, if you are still suckers who believe that
piracy is a reason for drm, you guys need a reality check.
game industry is not about you having fun, it is about making
money and more money. drm is here in order to make sure that
cash flow gets even bigger.

obviously game developers don't care whether your original
game will work or not, whether you'll be able to install it as
many times as you wish or not. it's all about the money, and by
being anti-piracy conformists, you are in fact helping them make
more money, and in fact you are helping them to put innocent
little kids in jail, just because they have shared/copied a silly
little game.

it's about people having fun, right? tell that to people who are
sitting in jail next to rapists are murderers just because they
copied or shared a game or a movie or a mp3.

not true? if things keep going this way, it will be true. a grim
reality lurks behind every single anti-piracy propaganda.

think about it.

Reply to pusipicku

The Lentzinator wrote :

Only 5 installs per PC. My copy took 3 installs to work!

@ Bop Top: the normal 360 gamer doesn't know that you can get cracked discs and burn them yourself. All they know is that you have to buy the game to play it. So basically the 360 gamer is NOT a PC gamer. He went out and bought a piece of hardware, we put ours together.

But that 360 gamer, when they're done with Bioshock, can go to a game store and trade it in for credit towards another game. The game store then turns around and resells it to another customer for a larger profit than they would have made on a new copy of the same game. It's why, at least here in the US, game stores like Gamestop and EBGames (both owned by the same company) push their used games. If you go in to buy an older console game and ask for a new copy, they immediately ask if you wanted to buy a used copy instead.

Then there is the rental market. Brick and Mortar stores like Blockbuster and online services like Gamefly rent games. This rental revenue is also money 2K never sees. So why isn't 2K implementing some sort of DRM on the 360 version to prevent used game sales and rentals? Buy doing so on the PC version, they are effectively doing just that.

robwright wrote :

BopTop, you make an excellent point. It's a bad situation of PC gamers. I'm not about to suggest this is intentional, though some people feel it's part of a master plan by Sony, Microsoft, etc. to kill PC gaming and build up the console market. Now THAT would be the kind of the paranoia and hysteria Retrogame is talking about.

Well, in this case, it was 2K's decision to implement this level of DRM with their PC release, not MS. As far as I know, MS doesn't make nearly as much money on PC Games as they do on the 360. So I can see why they would rather more developers made 360 games. Ironically, it's MS's XNA development software for the 360 that makes it easier to port to the PC and vice versa. And MS' DX10, which the 360 does not support, was one of the ways MS tried to sell Vista to the PC Gamer/early adopter. So while I can see it being in MS's interest to have more games on the 360, their PC strategies don't seem to be hindering the PC gaming market.

Now Sony, on the otherhand, I could definitely see as wanting more games on their console, but with the shortage of PS3 games atm, their last place installed base, and recently, the atrocious reviews for Lair, I don't see Sony as a threat to the PC gamer anymore :lol:

Message edited by BopTop on 08-31-2007 at 11:59:09 PM

Reply to BopTop

I knew I was going to buy the game the minute I knew the designers of SystemShock were making a new game.
When I first saw the trailer I knew I was going to buy it the day it was released.
I then played the BioShock demo. Everything was great and brilliant.
After I finished the demo I saw at Tom's the debate that was raging.

I tried the same day to play FEAR. I couldn't because it said I was putting the wrong CD. I uninstalled and installed it again, and still no go.
I then had some issues with C&C 3.

So the bottom line is:
I pay for my games.
Because I play several games simultaneously, I have to cycle between DVDs, and insert/remove them a lot, with my computer's DVD drive with inconvenient access, for a 2 second verification.
Now, DRM systems are colliding.
That makes sense, because I have all kinds of DRM installed, from Audio to Software.
So I just reformated my 6 months old install of Vista x64.

The funny thing is that cracked versions run just fine...

Thank you gaming industry for treating your loyal customers as garbage... but not this time.

I'm boycotting a perfect game until they remove DRM.
I don't mind restrictions (one game key can be logged simultaneously as in Steam is reasonable), but installing hidden programs, and potentially creating security holes is intolerable.

Cheers,

Reply to EricChristian

first off, the drm only will tick off people who buy the game not people who want to pirate it since they will have a crack for it. drm does not protect against piracy unless your are a mega noob and don't know how to get cracked stuff. In other words, the correlation between piracy and drm is just "low hanging fruit" since if you want pirate the game you will regardless of protection(i admit it's not totally true for online games e.g. WOW). The response to piracy by the industry with stuff like this only hurts consumers NOT pirates. Pirates will always exist, its a fact of life, they are in a sense a canary in the mineshaft of freedom. An evil reminding you of your freedom. If they are gone bet money that your life will be far more restrictive as a consequence of whatever was done to get rid of them.

Second, if you're using this drm thing to justify pirating it, you should stop kidding yourself just to make your conscious free of guilt.

Third, if you bought the game and don't like this crap then crack the game you bought with the cracks made by the pirates. You bought the game and it's your right no matter what anyone says IMO. You have right to say what goes in your house, how is that different with virtual space i.e. the pc?

companies may just have accept that piracy is here to stay and stop pissing off honest consumers till they become pirates themselves.

Message edited by deminicus on 09-01-2007 at 06:28:49 AM

Reply to deminicus

Hmmm, you know, I have a good example to use for decent copy protection. Bioware, NWN game. You create a bioware account and the cd key is registered to your account. You can't play online games without it, and you can't play multiplayer over network unless you have a unique cd-key. They're also nice enough to store the key info on your accounts page if you opt for it.

I think the best way to have any copy protection or DRM at all, is to do like that. When you register the software purchase you make an account with the company. Then you tie the activation key to you yourself. One thing that will be common among pc's owned by one person is who the installed OS is registered to. They could work with MS and go by that maybe. That way the software license is tied to the person, not to a particular computer, and also not limited on how many times the game can be installed by that person on their own computers.

But I could see where that could pose security issues, if people could crack the DRM, that used personal OS install info, then they could find a way to collect that info for themselves.

I'll fully admit, every once in a while I'll use a no-cd fix. But I only use them on games I own, and usually on games that require changing the cd's often. Or some times just so I can keep the original disc in good shape, haven't mastered making backups of my games yet. I've got 3 drawers in my desk filled with jewel cases of from games I bought. And some more recent ones in the big plastic book cases. I do so miss the compactness of those old jewel cases.

Reply to Mathos

Looks like a working crack has emerged. Or should I call it a 3rd party fix.

All those millions wasted on this DRM, for what, to have it defeated in 1 week. Probably would have sold more without it too. not to mention the savings in support costs. oh well live and learn.

As for dongles. Again not an undefeatable technology either.
Steam is also not undefeatable (there were plenty of working Half life 2 steam rips posted)

DRM is about as effective as the war on drugs.

Lets imagine in a perfect world that the copy protection was truely uncrackable. Pirates still aren't going to buy that game, they will just do without. Whether they play it for free or not 2k or whoever still isn't geting pirates dollars.

Bottom line the customer comes 3rd or 4th or last. These companies focus so much money and energy on a demographic that will never be interested in buying thier products, they hurt thier #1 demographic the genuine paying customers.

Reply to nurgle

DRM encourages pirating, boycotting wont work for gamers as they want the game one way or another

the problem with securom is that it gives no motivation to buy the drm filled crap

in real life, you can buy a sony dvd player for $100 or you can buy a "sony" dvd player made in china by another company that puts the sony logo on their product for $25

what motivation do you have to buy the $100 dvd player, the answer is quality, the cheap versions of those players will probably only last a few months if your lucky, so everyone is motivated to spend the extra 75

but with DRM and games, the cheap/pirate versions are of a higher quality

99% of the problems that many people complain about are nonexistent
in the pirate copies.

before these companies release a game, they should ask them self, what motivation will they have to buy this game?

people like freedom

would you buy a game that feels like a dictatorship or will you download a game that has been liberated

when a company fills their games with DRM, it only bothers the legit users, the pirates will never even know these problems exist
as far as the pirates will see, they will notice the game just installs and is ready to use

games with heavy drm are the ones that are pirated the most

Have you herd of the term a bakers dozen
it was created a long time ago

many bakers would sell 12 pastries per package, but when more bakeries opened up, competition became heavy and this caused all bakeries to increase their quality, but that wasn't enough, one baker made something called a bakers dozen so now his customers would get 13 pastries for the price of 12, as with any bakery this would instantly make you win over the competition

what drm does is it reduces the dozen, down to only six while the pirate copies increase the dozen 144

Message edited by Razor512 on 09-01-2007 at 03:24:41 PM

Reply to Razor512

The Bioshock DRM has been successfully cracked...

Reply to asdasd123123

it was cracked in less than one day

within hours of being released, there was a cracked copy, it was talked about on the forums

Reply to Razor512

Greetings!

Apparently, that version didnt worked, razor512.
Took a bit more than a week to get it to work in all computers tried, though.

This DRMshock fiasco should serve as a warning to the publishers of future games.

------------------------------ The recruitment of peasants is illegal.
Peasant-recruiters will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the applicable laws.
Reply to impar

oh, the only version of the game I tried was the demo.

the game runs smooth but I don't like how the game play is.

it has a lot of action but not enough fun

I wish there were cheats. when freezing memory values I was able to get unlimited health against some enemies but not all, what is with that

Reply to Razor512

It's just amazing that 2K went through all this trouble to stop hackers for eight days, yes eight. The game is already hacked and fully playable, what was the point of all of this mess if it's only going to take a week to break through it. The money that was spent implementing this and the money they lost with people getting fed up with this game is just rediculous.

Reply to zifko55

Honestly, I was heading to best buy the day this thread opened up and after hearing all this mess, I just looked at the box, got what I needed and left. I had planned to buy it... it looks so good.

------------------------------ The Truth About GPU Power Consumption
Home: E4600@3.6Ghz|AC7|P35|4GB|640GB|8800GT|Vista64|24" P-MVA
Work: Phenom9500@2.5Ghz|AC64|690G|3GB|500GB|8600GT|XP|2x22" TN
Reply to TSIMonster

All the reviews of Bioshock indicate that this is a game that my son and I would really enjoy. I eagerly awaited its release, and was planning to purchase a copy. The inclusion of SONY’s SecuROM DRM software is unbelievably ignorant and stupid. SONY is the same company that surreptitiously installed programs on our computers when we played their CD’s, that buggered up our operating systems and left us open to security exploits. Since that fiasco, I avoid any CD’s produced by SONY. I have no problem with requiring the disk to play the game, and understand why companies copy protect their software. However, limiting the number of times I can install and uninstall a program is unacceptable. I can play all my STEAM games and Guild Wars games on any computer on the planet, and don’t have to worry about my computer being raped by rootkit software. Bioshock will be installed on ZERO computers in my house. This will be due to GRM (Gamers Rights Management) software. Kram it, 2K games.

Reply to fletchoid

For the record and educational purposes: The crack for BioShock out there is working, but it is incomplete in most of the places available for download. You need a combination of "fake ISO/exe & dll crack/registry patch" to make it work. And no, I haven't done this, and I don't have a copy of the crack, I just saw the process. I can't even run BioShock in my computer. It is the curse of having an extremely low-end machine...

Reply to ethaniel

I uninstalled and reinstalled my x-fi drivers today, I needed to reinstall Bioshock.

Reply to STEMNIN

I have a Bioshock problem I haven't heard anybody else complain about. I've been running the retail version of the game on my homebuilt computer for about a week. It's been running fine until yesterday when I tried to open it using my desktop icon. The shortcut could not find the tatget file, "bioshock.exe". A search of my machind revealed the file was no longer on the machine. Does anybody have anything close to this?

Reply to ram1009

Are you using AVG Free? There seems to be some issues between AVG and the Bioshock executable (AVG tries to heal the exe, because it thinks it's a trojan). Just update AVG and restore the exe.

Reply to ethaniel

With all that has happened, I have just one more question: Would you consider putting Dupre on eBay?
...
...
I had to ask, sorry.

Message quoted 1 times

Reply to ethaniel

Well, Rob, what exactly is the difference between not buying the game and 'pirating' it, and not buying it and 'boycotting' it? Do they know that you have boycotted them? The only difference here is a moral stand point. Why don't you grow up and start living in the real world where moral stand points make no difference unless you push your point home.

Perhaps if you were to suggest we all sign a petition or something during that video, we'd have something to go on, but as it is, you've just suggested we basically do nothing in the most pointless manner possible.

Even taking the game back after purchasing it and stating flat out that you are returning it due to ridiculous DRM issues would make a point. Simply not buying the game in the first place makes little difference. They just blame low sales on piracy and you are in exactly the same position. It's fine for you, you have a video feed and popular website to make your points public, but you're appealing to the masses. Tell them how to act pro actively instead of meekly accepting this injustice.

Message edited by triggersix on 09-06-2007 at 01:20:31 AM

Reply to triggersix

randomizer wrote :

Totally agree with Rob on cracking, just boycott, thats the best option.

Boycotting will not make the slightest difference. In fact it will make things worse. There is no way for the developer to know you are not buying their product because you have taken a stand. They will just assume you are another pirate.

A better way would be to buy the game and then return it immediately asking for your money back due to DRM issues. Enough retailers get this slap in the face and there will be no option but for them to listen.

Reply to triggersix

Quote :

Well, Rob, what exactly is the difference between not buying the game and 'pirating' it, and not buying it and 'boycotting' it? Do they know that you have boycotted them? The only difference here is a moral stand point.

What's the difference? You mean, besides breaking the law? Sir, all I'm contending is this: if you're upset that Sony and 2K are treating you like a criminal with unruly DRM, and then decide to protest their actions by exhibiting the same criminal behavior the DRM is supposed to prevent, then your argument is taking on a level of Joseph Heller-like absurdity.

And plus, 2K will know you have boycotted the game: http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/ and more specifically http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6628

Quote :

Why don't you grow up and start living in the real world where moral stand points make no difference unless you push your point home.

Um...not sure how to respond to that slight.

Quote :

Perhaps if you were to suggest we all sign a petition or something during that video, we'd have something to go on, but as it is, you've just suggested we basically do nothing in the most pointless manner possible.

That's actually a good idea. In fact, I just did a quick search on PetitionOnline.com, and while there are a few entries for BioShock, they're all about silly stuff like a Collector's Edition or making a PS3 version. So here's the link, Triggersix. You start the petition, I'll sign it and then mention it in the next video. http://www.petitiononline.com/

Quote :

Even taking the game back after purchasing it and stating flat out that you are returning it due to ridiculous DRM issues would make a point. Simply not buying the game in the first place makes little difference. They just blame low sales on piracy and you are in exactly the same position. It's fine for you, you have a video feed and popular website to make your points public, but you're appealing to the masses. Tell them how to act pro actively instead of meekly accepting this injustice.

Again, you're not making sense here. Sure, 2K can always try to spin low sales numbers on piracy -- but we can always turn around and point to the forums and scores of posts and messages of angry gamers saying they are boycotting the game because of the DRM. So no, you're not in exactly the same position. It sounds like you want to have your cake (not buy the game to make a point) and eat it, too (crack it and play it for free). Fine. But I stick by my original argument: pirating the game to protest 2K's efforts to restrict piracy will only lead to more DRM in the future and therefore is a self-defeating effort. If you want to be pro-active about this DRM controversy, then I encourage you to start the petition, e-mail 2K and/or post on its forum, and, if you're up for it, pitch a guest column for THG on the evils of DRM.

Reply to robwright

You know, there was a zinger back there people missed... Something insinuating that the people who use consoles are *too stupid* to be pirates.... :ouch: :lol:

Does anyone remember the Dreamcast? "Back in the day" someone hacked it and its games so that joe average gamer could download an .iso and burn it to a CD-R and the console would run it, no modchip required. This was in spite of the fact that the system used proprietary disc technology (pre-dvd) and the games were about 1 GB so they hacked the games to compress the size. It was a helluva lot of work, but the pirates, CONSOLE PIRATES, made it as easy as nabbing an mp3 to steal ALL the games for the platform!

What does this have to do with Bioshock's DRM? What I just described is the doomsday scenario that these clowns and their "securom rootkit garbage" are trying (incompetently) to prevent.

In fact, copy protection issues date back to the first home games. Starflight (1986) had a code tied to its instruction manual; lose the book or fail to enter the code and an IN-GAME event (that happened with HHGTTG style humor and panache) ended your game. Back then you could with proof of purchase get a new manual from their customer service. And if your floppies wore out you could mail them in and get new ones.

It seems absurd but it's a true story. Copy protection is intertwined with and has changed the history of gaming.

Just as the games have evolved (from Galaga to Doom to Bioshock) and the platforms have too (from coin-op arcade to early PCs and consoles to today's multimedia multiplatform world) so too must copy protection.

If they resolve this DRM/ "rootkit" issue this was a NECESSARY if painful example that copy protection MUST evolve further, but will never go away. You need police to ensure public safety; you need copy protection or game companies lose and inevitably, gaming loses. You *do not* need a police state/dictatorship; you *do not* need DRM to mess with your OS. Support CHANGE

Reply to Retrogame

I'd like to address 3 subjects:

1. whether cracking is bad or not
2. has all drm been broken quickly
3. the price of games

1. Rob said don't crack the game, and I disagree with. I never buy a game until it's cracked. I simply refuse to be forced to leave a disc in my drive simply to play a game, and I'm a fairly casual gamer who generally plays one game at a time. Nevertheless, I use my drive for other things. For that matter, I should be able to burn a disk and play a game at the same time.

2. Some here have said that no copy protection has worked, I suggest you see how many Steinberg audio packages have been cracked in the last year or 2. They use a USB dongle that has thwarted the pirates for over a year or 2, so there's copy protection that works. Has the Direct TV's Smart card that came out in 2003 or 2004 been defeated? If not, then those must work.

I can't say that Steinberg's protection is unbreakable, but 1 or 2 years is impressive.....it's certainly longer than the life of a typical game. The only downside I can see to using that tech for games is that users have to buy the key. With Steinberg, one key will work with all Steinberg apps and demos, and it means you can move it to different machines, so long as you move the dongle too. Hard to care that much about a $20.00 dongle if you're buying super expensive software packages. However, even if such a key worked with every new game, selling a $20.00 dongle for 40 dollar games is a harder sell, especially for casual gamers.

Then again, if that means 2 years of no piracy, I could envision them giving the dongle away, or for a small fee (e.g. $5.00). If/when it's cracked, most games that are affected will be well past the point of being hot sellers.

3. Those who complain about games being to expensive, get over it. Games are NOT expensive.

The original Ultima cost $50-$60.00. Yes, there were less buyers, but it was coded by a single person in matter of months.

If you bought a game like Time Zone (a Roberta Williams Sierra Online game) you were out $100.00. Many war games I saw were in that price range as well.

For those to lazy to look up an inflation calculator, that's the equivalent of 214 2006 dollars.

Even Ultima VI was $50 or $60.

Games are CHEAP!. And unlike the 80's, you frequently can find a playable demo to try before you buy. $40 - $50.00 for a new release game (likely $20.00 if you can wait 6 months) is a bargain.

This sounds exactly liek the Music whiners, who said CD's were too expensive, but still complain even when prices are a buck a song (which is about what a single 30 years ago...much less if you adjust for inflation).

Concert tickets are expensive. Games are not.

Reply to nilepez

Well I would just like to point out Oblivion, and FEAR. Both had little drm (just pop in the dvd to play for the most part) and they sold very well. Sure there are those that stole them but still were a very profitable games. I think this model set by Oblivion and FEAR should be followed.

I think Rob had a valid point when he says extreme drm is pushing people who other wise wouldn't steal a game in to people that do. I'd say it mostly has to do with the amount of hassle a person has to put up with. At the moment it seems to be less of a hassle to just download the game opposed to buying it legally.

With games getting to be larger and larger in size even with a fast internet connection it takes a while to download 4gb. I would rather just take a quick 15 min run to the store pick up a hard copy and be done with it, plus I don't have to buy a few 500gb or 1tb hdds just to keep my game collection. I would gladly pay to avoid being hassled, game developers need to just play on peoples laziness make it faster and easier to get the game from them for a fee as opposed to other sources for free.

Reply to samir_nayanajaad

ethaniel wrote :

With all that has happened, I have just one more question: Would you consider putting Dupre on eBay?
...
...
I had to ask, sorry.

Dupre is actually my personal property. It's a hammer I brought in to fix my broken cubicle. It occurred to me to sell the copy of Bioshock on Ebay , maybe for a charity auction.

"One copy of Bioshock, briskly hammered. Heavily scratched CD, but the install code is OK"

It hasn't occurred to me to sell Dupre. I named my hammer Dupre in reference to an old school video game, which one of the other readers might have already picked up on.

And on a related note unfortunately, I know EXACTLY how much the table costs now. Even so, I'm glad I'm not working at a cowardly video game site, that's so afraid to give a bad review, that nothing's worse than 6.5 out of 10, much less go with some "hammertime".

One thing I'd rather not have lost, is WHY I smashed Bioshock with the hammer.

Reply to Sengoku

Theres two type of games i will not buy.

1) Games that have DRM like bioshock
2) Games that have in-game streaming ad's like BF2142 and ET:QuakeWars

I don't see the point paying full price and still have to put up with that crap.
If they want to put streaming ad's in my games then it should be free or close to it.

Reply to Pist

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