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Torrents are a PC rental store...

And if people are ethical in their walk of life like I am and all of the people I surround myself with..

They will download it .. evaluate and then buy it or delete it...

That simple.

If gaming companies wanted to allow people to Download the game for week trial with a special CD Key.. (yet fast speeds) for a small fee tacked onto the price of the game.. I am sure that would work too

Look at EVE Online..

Fighting this trend is like fighting the Tide..

And blaming people for pirating .. is like blaming peace protesters for the war...

well the god damit games makers must think about people who can afford to pay
for games.if one of them will earn aprox 150euro/month then will still buy the game?i dont think so. what we should tho with they?to kill all of them cause they dont have money to buy a game and they get it by copying ?the piracy is the sign of how many people dont have money for buying games. so think all of u twice before acuse that people who dont pay for game.if u like one game i`m sure you will buy it. cheers to all

I'm sorry Rob but I feel that your view on this is slightly skewed because of your position in this. I wonder how many games you have purchased without getting a chance to play or had people close to you able to try before you had to pay for it.

People playing on cracked games cannot play on any legitimate servers which are also the servers with antihacks. There are huge benefits to buying a game over playing a cracked game, like poor cracks that cause the game to crash instead of running properly as well as updates and new content. Every single person playing on those cracked servers is either going to love the game enough to buy it or once they're copy gets disabled will never play it again.

Of course i cant say that pirating is right, but its the only option gamers have to test the product before they buy it. Every game will get pirated, Im not saying that they wont. Im saying, why should we throw our money blindly at these developers without being able to try it first? Thankfully some companies are starting to realize this and are releasing demos of their games, they just need to release them with the game instead of a month after.

On that same side of the coin.. If the game was worth your purchase.. and you really enjoyed it..

Wouldn't you buy it to seriously get to enjoy it?--- "guilt free"

That is a good point..

Rob how many games are you paid to review that are so awful that you almost feel you should be paid extra just to have to endure it???




Now picture all of us peasants out here who do not have games delivered to their door and get paid for it.

As some have said before: 1 pirated copy ≠ 1 lost sale. Developers should stop whining about PC piracy. Pirated copies minus those people that buy the game afterwards minus the ones that would never buy it regardless...and you get a much smaller problem than some are trying to make it lately.

Actually.. I have to disagree.. as 1 pirated copy does not = a lost sale..

1 pirated copy of an excellent game can very well = + many sales..

and

1 pirated copy of a bad game can = - even more lost sales..

Its that whole law of customer satisfaction..

If someone is happy with a restaurant.. they will tell 5 people how good it was..

If someone has a horrid experiance with a restaurant.. they will tell 11 how bad it was...

You know, I don't think piracy has as huge of an impact as these corps are make it out to. Piracy has been around since the old days of the commodore series computers and even earlier. And so have anti piracy encryption softwares. And with the proliferation of consoles you'll start seeing piracy happen a lot more on those.

I personally have had to download I think two games off of torrent sites. Not because I wanted to play the game for free, but, because out of normal use my CD's seem to become scratched while in the CD drives. Granted, this has only happened to me with two games, Civ4 and Civ3 complete, starting to think atari engineers faults into their discs. And I'll admit that when I use to go to LAN parties, I'd install software off other discs so that we could get a game going, and use NoCD Cracks. But, then again I use noCD cracks on the games that I own, so I don't need to worry about CD's getting scratched at what not.

But, I've also watched too many companies that made damn good games disappear off the face of the planet. Most of them didn't have anything to do with Piracy. Lets see, Intrplay, Black Isle, WestWood, Parrallax(sp?), Nihilistic, etc. I'm sure there are others but those are what I can remember off the top of my head. In fact I haven't seen BioWare doing much lately either.

EXACTLY!!!

Its Bupkiss!

Good games are helped with Piracy.. as long as the company does not abandon the game.. and Bad games are destroyed by piracy.. which is better for everyone..

This piracy scapegoating is nonsense.. Go look at the trackers on piratebay.... Those numbers are dwarfed by purchases of the game..

It is like being involved in a horrendous car accident.. having 3 limbs severed... face mangled.. ribs smashed and put into a coma for 5 years.. waking up and blaming a hang nail..

Its absurd...

Even more to the point.. you are exactly correct .. Interplay & Black Isle made some of the best games ever!!!... So good in fact that I am not even looking at any reviews for Fallout 3 by Bethesda.. I am just instantly buying it.. as it is Fallout!

And I am goo goo gaa gaa over it .. and thats where 50 bucks is going the second it comes out.. If It sucks.. well Bethesda is going to hear it.. as if I were to download a game find it awful I would certainly tell at least 11 or so people.. If I buy a game that I have been waiting for ...well for over 10 years.. and it is awfull...

My god I will tell Millions!!!

Interplay is back btw.. so I am also interested in seeing what Interplay has in store for the Fallout MMORPG..

And maybe an updated Planescape!!!


By Gamers.. .for Gamers... FTW!

Delivered to their door? Really? You guys assume that we're like GameSpot or IGN -- that developers and publishers just send us all kinds of stuff for free and roll out the red carpet. In reality, that couldn't be further from the truth. We -- and I mean the Tom's Games editors -- pay for the vast majority of our games. In fact, I can count the number of devs/pubs that have sent us review copies in the last year ON ONE HAND.

And yeah, it sucks. Sure, I and other other editors here are still getting paid to please these games, and we're no doubt grateful for that. I wish we did get the bulk of our games sent right to our door so we didn't have to keep a strict budget on which games we're buying to review. But that's life. And in way, maybe that's a good thing: buying the game at a retail store and then playing through makes us appreciate what non-reviewers experience. It's one of the reasons we have a "value meter" at the end of the review by the final score, so that people understand how we rate the game.

Kinda sounds like Nvidia better start lowering prices, so we will have more money to buy games. I would have to spend $1000.00 so I could get my gaming computers to play the lastest games at 1280x1024 med settings. Guess that's not going to happen. I still DL games just so I know how far behind I am. I tried Crysis, but I kept throwing up because I get sick to my stomach with 8fps. If developers quit making PC game I'll save so much money not buying video card upgrades. Sorry Nvidia. Since we are pointing fingers, then I guess the price of gas has nothing to do with people's extra money. I spend atleast $100 more a month on gas for the last two years. That's close to 24 games that I could have bought. I think games lost to piracy might actually be closer to 10%. To help clarify myself. If piracy could be stopped, I think sales might rise 10% at best. People only have so much extra money and factoring in the price of gas and food over the past year, I'm amazed thing aren't worse.

Rduke, don't take this the wrong way, but I have to ask: how old are you?

The question isn't an insult, I'm honestly interested, because after reading the above statements from you, I'm convinced there IS a shift going on, albeit a generational one brought on by the Web. You don't have to reply here, you can PM me or e-mail. I'm just extremely curious where your views come from and why there's such a giant gap between our respective thinkings on this matter.

Piracy is killing the PC gaming industry as we know it. That's a fact.

The sad details are different from what most people are made to believe though. The industry is fighting piracy by pouring gasoline into the fire. It works perfectly. Piracy has become big. There are different hacking groups, warez sites, DRM vendors, etc. all competing with each other, trying to get the "consumers" click or attention.

On one side we have the DRM software vendors. They try to improve the product for the publisher by embedding various methods to secure the product. By that they usually break various ISO norms or severly violate the consumers freedom. The consumer ends up with a product that forces his hand. I suppose everyone has had a game that didn't install because of a virtual DVD drive or an installed burning software like alcohol. Everyone has experienced a game stuttering because it had to check whether the original DVD was in the drive or if the daring consumer replaced it with a salami from the nearest supermarket. Most gamers have at some point forgotten to bring their original DVD to a LAN party. Most people have had a game crash/fail to start because of a badly implemented copy protection. I've had games that didn't even start without patching the copy protection (Evil Islands) or that ran badly because the copy protection checked for the original medium every 5ms (Armed Assault). The list goes on.
On the other hand we have the crackers/hackers that remove the copy protection and improve the product for the consumer, but make it available for everyone and for free - a horrible outlook for the publisher. While the hassle with the copy protection is gone, other nasty flaws show up. Patching a cracked game turns into a gamble. Will it work? Will it re-establish the copy protection? Will it mess up my game? Sometimes the crack does not work properly (Titan Quest - if it is true and not just an excuse). Some cracks are loaded with trojans or the odd virus. If the game doesn't work properly, the publisher won't handle support anymore since consumer uses modified files. The list goes on.

So in the end the consumer gets screwed by both sides of the pirate problem, at least to a certain degree, and must try to figure out the lesser of two evils. And, in case i didn't mention it, the consumer has to actually pay for it, too.

There are some nice people in both camps. There are hackers that do what they do just because they want to see if it can be done or because they feel the copy protection is a real hassle for the user. There are software engineers working on DRM software because they really believe that they can improve profits for the publisher.There are a lot of black sheep on both sides too though and their number is far greater. Hackers crack a game so they can publish it on a warez site, get some money for clicks or get paid by someone who burns and sells cracked games. The DRM companies are not any better. I still remember starforce staff posting links to a torrent site of a stardock product that was not copy protected. Obviously someone was angry because a publisher tried to offer a good product without starforces approval. And i am confident that there are quite some DRM specialists providing cracks to make the competition look bad.

Every time a hacker is caught, a copy protection is circumvented or doesn't work the press is buzzing about software piracy, DRM etc. Most will remember the Sony rootkit debacle. Or the endless law suits because of ripped dvds. Some might even remember the guy that was clubbed down because he was sporting the dvd encryption algorithm on his t-shirt which was illegal in his country? My point is, the industry around this piracy issues has evolved into a self-sustaining monstrosity. There are people being paid to make surveys about it. There are laywers doing nothing but hunting drm-offenders, be it a copied game or a downloaded movie.

90% of all PC gamers are criminals, at least that's what i'm told. While it seems shocking it makes me wonder. I mean, 90%. 90 percent. In a school class of 30 people 27 of them are criminals. Thugs. Rapists. Murderers. Well, and software pirates. Since 90% seems like a big chunk i can call it the majority. What I truly wonder about is not the majority, but the 10 other percent. The minority, that is not hacking games, modding it to include nudity, train for their next amok gig or eat little babies for lunch. What's wrong with them? Why can't they be like everyone else and steal software? Maybe they are too young or ride the short bus? Nope - it is safe to assume that everyone within that minority knows someone who steals software and thus has access to it. Be it the 8 year old girl playing Sims 2 or that 15 year old emo kid training for his great day at school with the r-rated shooter his brother bought. No, they all can get it free. Well, to be fair, there may be the odd guy living in the deepest depths of the congo, surrounded by crazy baboons, without an internet connection (or AOL), but thats's a rare oddity, probably less than 1%.
Based on that i can only conclude that either the 90% figure is totaly off or that the protection models implemented in the past were not only a failure, but increased piracy instead of preventing it.
What do i mean by totally off? The number of thiefs would have to be significantly lower. Even 40% would be way too much, because everyone would still know someone who could access pirated software. On the other hand the 90% suggests a majority of gamers. That would mean that pirating sofware is easy and available. That's actually true. All that is needed is an internet connection and a computer or someone else who meets that requirements. Everyone can download a p2p client, google for his favorite game and download it within a day or two. All that percentages are just fictious, but what they mean is not. It means stolen software is available to everyone looking for it. It means that the DRM doesn't prevent piracy, it only delays it. Actually it has some nasty side effects too. It promotes piracy by restricting the consumer, by making the product more expensive and by calling for the consumers attention if something goes wrong.

Now back to that religious minority that actually buys games. Why do they buy the games? It can't be fear of getting caught since it's more likely to be struck by a lightning than getting caught for stealing a computer game. There are several groups of people that buy games.
First there are games that are played online. World of Warcraft - it makes no sense stealing the game if you have to pay a monthly fee anyway. Then there are people that actually want to support the developers. A minority, but they really do exist. Damn weirdos.
Some people buy a game because they actually like it - despite the wicked protection mechanisms included. Sometimes a game can be as expressive as a poster or a music CD. Being a Quake player or owning Man Hunt can be a statement as personal and strong as a tattoo or a piercing with some people. Don't forget, we are talking about a minority here.
Last but not least are the political buyers. People that buy games because of their message and not because of their content. A dangerous bunch but i consider myself a member. I bought two games (Hearts of Iron Anthology/Galactic Civlizations 2) because they have no DRM and am about to buy another (Sins of a Solar Empire), not only because i like them, but also because neither of them comes with anything that bothers me.
To sum it up, the whole minorty chooses to buy those games despite all odds that speak against it. The publishers or developers have no control either way - the gamers choose whether to buy a game or not.
That brings us finally to the root of all evil. The publishers should stop to thing how to prevent people from playing their games but how to make it worthwhile for them to actually play them and in the end maybe even own them. If you look down the street it is not unlikely that there is not a single person living there that hasn't stolen a game or mp3, maybe ripped a DVD or watched a stolen copy at a friends house.

By trying to enforce strict copy protections and digital rights publishers willingly limit their market to a mere minority of possible customers. While they keep spouting about that they have to encode/secure and restrict because if they stop to, nobody will pay for their content, they comfortably ignore the truth. Whatever they offer is free for grabs whether they want it or not anyway. And it is a lie that every software pirate is a stealing free loader. I've seen black markets, well, let's call them flea markets, in Warsaw, Seville and other european cities where people actually buy pirated DVDs of games or movies. Even some policemen bought bought copied movies in spain. And the kicker is, they pay for it. Nope, they don't pay 50€ for a game or 20€ for a movie, but they are without a doubt willing to pay something.
The market has changed. Consumers have become a whole lot smarter and have a lot more choices. The competition has become a lot fiercer.
While the market changed, the income changed and the money consumers have to spend changed, somehow the pricing of the products has become worse. Games have always been expensive. Despite the growing number of computers sold. Setting the price and then selling a product does not work anymore. At least not in the computer industry.
Instead of clinging to an old and dying market model, the gaming industry needs to adjust. Putting harsher rules into place, embedding even more restricting protections and sacrificing more freedom of their customers to save their undead market model from well deserved extinction is not going to work.
It seems the fastest changing industry of the world is afraid of change.
If a game is made for an audience of maybe 200.000 players and each is willing to pay 5$ for a copy of it, then making a game that costs 3 Million dollars plus distribution and DRM look like a very stupid idea. Lowering the production costs of games that have no big market, cut out the DRM crap and pass the savings to the customers seem better.
If a gamer has a budget of 40$ and a game costs 60-80 he'll only be able to buy one every other month or so, making the competition a lot fiercer. If the game would cost 20$, said gamer could buy 2 games every month. The money that gamer spends gets spread a whole lot better. There won't be one super uber game and a bag of flops. Sure, there still will be games that won't sell. Those are the lousy games. No one goes to a movie that sucks badly either.
While game publishers have been moaning and crying about pirates reducing their cut, and computer game sales have declined, they should look at the total money spend on gaming instead of looking at how many games they sold. A single MMO account sucks up the budget two block buster games over the year.

Right now if mom of pa go out and buy a console game or pc game for 60$, they will, in most cases, spend some thought on it. If it costs only 20$ they won't. And lowering the prices isn't difficult at all. Put some ads in my gaming box, give me a McDonalds SplashScreen before the game starts (It may get hacked though), offer smaller addons for your games for little fees. Offer me some gaming posters or plastic toys. Put the manual on the Disk, but sell a seperate hardcover bound with hamster-leather for the super freaks that feel the urge. It is possible.
With lower cost and without harsh restrictions people will stop pirating. The gaming market doesn't even have to grow - it's already there but no one is willing to offer a product to those 90% that is reasonably priced and doesn't make their owners feel like being remote controlled. Some people will keep pirating because they always do, but they will switch places with what is todays minority.

Paradox Interactive, Stardock and some other companies have shown that it is indeed possible to offer cheap products without DRM and draconic restrictions. In addition consumers tend to be a whole lot more forgiving if their 20$ game has a bug compared to their 60$ major investment not working perfectly.
Moving to another platform will only work until the consumers catch up and then the pirates move in again. Once PC gaming is dead (i don't think that will happen) the trend we see now with PC gaming will repeat itself with the console market. And consumers will catch up once they see the opportunity and realize that the product, in this case a game, is not worth what they are paying.
Selling Grand Theft Auto IV for 70€ (roughly 100$)? I can get a hooker, three tickets for the movies, a happy meal and a box with 600 nails for that. That's though competition and that's where people turn to pirates.

Arrhh.


PS: Take this with a grain of salt. Better yet, just skip it and read something worthwile.

Ok please forgive my assumptions earlier.

Let me ask you...

When you hate a game do you throw it away?

When you purchase a game does it not generate more income then it costs you?... even if you do hate it?? (not saying it is a multi-million dollar return) however it generates traffic.. adds - revenue .. etc

I am an open book man.. ask and within reason I will tell you.

I am 30 years old.. certainly can be off the wall and abrasive...perhaps even seeming as if I am younger or older then I am depending on how I wish to come across.. or if I am aggravated.

I served as a Cryptologic Technician Operator in the Navy...

I had a career as a broker for Morgan Stanley Dean Witter.. yes I had a job in the WTC.. and something told me to leave it all 5 months before that fateful day... akin to your gut telling you to not go into a store, and later finding out that it was being robbed at gunpoint then or shortly after you left.

I have two children..

I own my own home..

I drive two Audi's an A6 and an A4, have a motorcycle

I have a bum for a younger brother who relies on me for his very survival.. albeit I enable him, to a point.. but I try to live my life consciously, and feel I am ethically correct in how I live.

I do not lie.. not to make money.. not to stay out of trouble.. and not to appease my wife and tell her she looks good when she does not... I would rather have the heat of truth, then have the rot of lies.

I do not like to be stolen from.. and I do not steal from others.. I certainly am not beneath opening a box in a store and giving the internals a thorough going over before I purchase it though.

What games I have downloaded.. I have either paid for.. or erased from my HD.. never to think about it again. I do not like to be cheated. I do not like to waste my time or money on deceptive crap.
I have no qualms about paying what something is worth.. and I have no hesitations on giving something a once over before

I do not look at that as theft...and I do not consider how it could be if I am not keeping it... the company is only losing my sale.. they are not losing a product...yet if they made a solid product that interested me they would gain a sale.. and then they would have me to promote their fantastic product... it is a win win if they have something good.

It is a shift with out a doubt... and it is certainly much broader then just gaming.

It comes in ebs and flows.. although that is happening faster and faster...

For example...

If it was not for the internet.. the sheer speed of information flying around the world..

We would already be at a full blown war with Iran. With a UK getting captured in contested Iranian waters.. and then that speedboat incident.

The Gulf on Tonkin resolution was enabled with even less credible information then that.

However back then we did not have video of NVA on their boats trying to radio US ships...literally an hour after the incident occurred like we did with the Iranian incident.

We almost had the full story before the news agencies could put out a report.

The internet is saving us in ways the majority of the worlds population does not even consider much less acknowledge.

Now on to the finer details of how it is serving us in the topic.

All evolution occurs via the whims of consciousness.

With out consciousness there is no need for hands..we consciously desire to grasp things, to build, and so forth.. and we evolve hands... and what we cannot immediately evolve our bodies to do .. we create objects on the outside to do what we our consciousness desires are.

Fire, Wheel, Engines, to Phones, Internet, Airplanes.

All of it stems from consciousness.

I have a macro view of how this is all related and utilized in our existence as life, and I feel if you do not have that facet of understanding in your paradigm.. that is where our disconnect on this issue is.

I certainly understand the economics of your paradigm, I have to say that it is endangered and will soon be extinct. That is threatening to many people as it change often is...especially the change that is happening at the rate we must face it.

It is already going light speed.. and it seems to increase in an order of magnitude every few months..

Now.. When it comes to entertainment, which is what this is.. look at what the internet has brought to us..

Now we can watch what we want .. when we want .. where we want.. no obnoxious advertisements, no hassles.. and the clarity gets better all of the time.

The airwaves are ours... The internet is ours.. we own them.. we paid for their creation..and upkeep+ profits to those who just want to take it all for themselves... which is theft!

Trying to put a squeeze on one end.. just balloons another.. it is like grasping at smoke... the people who know the technology.. know it better then the people who created it... as they can not only navigate it .. they can directly manipulate it to do what it is they want it to do.

However the internet, torrents, video hosting sites, blogs, cellphones etc.. even what you and I are doing right now is allowing consciousness to interact and expand even faster..

I would and will certainly expand on this .. however speaking of the devil... I just received a phone call from a neighbor.. and he needs some help so I have to cut it off here for now.. be back in an hour or so.

Slobogob, You may have the best grip on this matter than most I've seen.

Reminds me of a saying that has always (Well nearly) worked for me (and those around me)

-You'll catch more flies with honey than you do vinegar.

It's WAY over saturated in my opinion.....everyone wants thier piece of the pie, well the pie is only so big..... so someone won't get a piece and will fail and will likely try blame it on something other than themselves~

good ole diablo, can't retire just yet.....I too thought Titan Quest was going to replace my Diablo 2

while i never thought to comment on the videos in general, I never have really watched one yet, they sound like they would be good from the titles, but I have not even watched this one!!!!