Collection of AMD K10 data - Page 3

so stating a fact is considered trolling? since when? i agreed with FUD that for his desires...AMD is the platform for him

again how is that trolling?
gOJDO (and most everyone else) would prefer that we stay on topic -- especially in this "sticky" topic.

Motherboards, chipsets, and the RAM limits imposed by them do not apply to the K10.

In the context of this slide, it is possible the slide is describing the L1 cache for data and not the L1 cache for instruction.

It's clear from the slide that it's talking about data cache. BTW, Opteron's L1 caches are 2-way, but it should be orthogonal to cache size, anyway.

so stating a fact is considered trolling? since when? i agreed with FUD that for his desires...AMD is the platform for him

again how is that trolling?
gOJDO (and most everyone else) would prefer that we stay on topic -- especially in this "sticky" topic.

Motherboards, chipsets, and the RAM limits imposed by them do not apply to the K10.

After re-thinking ... you ae correct... wont take much to turn this thread into a AMD vs INTEL flame war...

my apologies..

If properly implemented, it should help performance under power saving. More thoughts here.

There was some excellent info there. Thanks!

actually, just because it supports 8Gb of memory has nothing to do with the capacity of the modules it is compatible with. well, not literally nothing, but quite little

This is my happy dance:



That's great! So I can go off and get my 2xQuad and 4x2GB sticks and live happily ever after!

yeah AMD is the only way u can go with that....965\975 boards dont even support 2 gb modules

explain how i am wrong again? i said it doesnt support 2 GB MODULES... i didnt say it couldnt support 8 gb's

you are wrong here P965 supports up to 8GB of memory
thats 4x2GB

http://www.intel.com/products/chipsets/p965/index.htm


so if there are 4 slots for modules and the board supports 8GB
what is 8GB divided by 4 slots? its 2GB so yes you are wrong

lets pretend there are only 2 slots

whats 8GB divided by 2 slots?

stfu your posts are annoying. know what you are talking about before you talk about it

Rammestein wrote """actually, just because it supports 8Gb of memory has nothing to do with the capacity of the modules it is compatible with. well, not literally nothing, but quite little""""

now tell him he is annoying too .... and post me a link that shows a intel 965/975 running with 2 gig modules.

Actually, the diagram for K10 wouldn't be much different from K8. The FP execution units are wider which wouldn't show. And, the new stack hardware wouldn't show nor would the doubled cache buses or doubled prefetch.

The speed that AMD gives for SSE is 3.6X. Since there are four cores instead of two you could divide by 2 and get 1.8 or 80% faster. However, I suppose it would be more accurate to say that widening the SSE units gives a 100% increase in speed while the second set of cores gives the 80%. So, the per core change in SSE should be 100% and this should be the same as C2D. However, because of the additional operations, you can get C2D to run faster if the data requires the right kind of operations and the SSE instructions are tuned correctly. In other words, in general operation K10 and C2D should be about the same at the same clock but specialized SSE operations could be faster on C2D. It is possible that some operations could be a little faster on K10 because of less cache latency but this would only be a small difference.

I was initially thinking about 10% improvement for integer on K10 which would still have been slower than C2D but would have closed most of the gap. This would be due to additional FastPath instructions, elimination of instruction breaking which would require a second fetch, side band stack optimizer, and elimination of fetch delay. However, we also have improvements in branch prediction and out of order loads so I'm now thinking it will be possible to match C2D's integer IPC. I would guess that the great majority of Integer tests would fall within +-5% between C2D and K10. At 3.0Ghz a 3% difference is only 100Mhz. Differences smaller than this are beyond the accuracy of the tests. For example, you can get 2% difference just by changing motherboards.

I have to say though that a bit of editing in the quotes would be nice. It is a bit annoying when someone quotes ten or twenty lines of text and then adds a one line comment. This is doubly annoying when the poster also has a large sig. The jokes about newbie posters who quote large blocks of text and then say, "I agree!" or newbie posters who try to impress people with a large sig have been around for more than 15 years. These jokes actually predate web forums and go back to the old email lists and proprietary dial up bulletin boards. Show everyone that you are actually smart enough to post something worth reading and edit down to the last comment instead of including seven layers of nested quotes. Chain letters are banned for a good reason; the same thing applies to quotes.

Here's the latest die shots from Hans de Vries at Chip Architect. Looks like they're scaling cache compared to Brisbane too.

http://www.chip-architect.com/news [...] mages.html

we dropped thios issue as to not taint this thread...there are no intel systems runnin 2gb modules for 8 gbs ok...

lets keep this thread about the k109

May I be the one to shoot this dead horse? YES YOU CAN RUN 2GB MEMORY MODULES WITH P965 CHIPSETS. (I'm with beerandcandy on this one)

Now back to Barcelona: I recall a concern Jack once brought up about the separate power planes of the Barcelona chip. It had something to do with the frequency regulation circuits consuming a significant amount of power, and the idea of having multiples of these circuits to be able to slow cores independently may be counter-productive. Is this the case?

Anyone hear if K10 solves the problem of having to run 2T when 4 DIMMS are used?

does anyone know if they will release a dual core processor with the same improvements of the Barcelona? aka, better power efficiency, better stepping, and less heat dissipation ect?

thanks Jack

Can't remember if anything actually said power plane per core (maybe it did somewhere) but at least each core not used will have less power draw. That will help some anyways.

Does anyone have any "not so leaked" info??? I'm sure someone does haha.

I think, the most negative effect would be the additional processing steps required. But the designers wouldn't have chosen the additional layers if there wouldn't be any benefit.

But if you say "much more difficult to yield" you imply, that they added more of the finest metalization layers, which are still more prone to defects than the upper layers with increasing size starting from M5 or so.

Already the smallest metal layer structures (vias) are a multiple of the size of e.g. the transistor gate. And the bigger the structures, the smaller is the effect of variations in processing them. A somewhat too thin SiO layer in the transistors can instead render more chips unusable than a vias, which are thinner by the same number of atom layers.

That is to say only on a duo core

Please keep this discussion going. I learn more reading both of yours' posts than anywhere else.

I am going to have to say good post. glad there a sticky for it.

Might as well post this here for anyone interested in all the technical details of Barcelona.

Barcelona optimization guide

I have to agree, same conclusion I came to as well.


Considering people are already getting 4ghz out of their core2s and quads, I cant see how it will be worth switching over to AMD for those who already have purchased intel chips, unless you got a crappy overclock which doesnt seem to happen very often.. from what Ive seen, 3ghz is very easy to get, alot of people getting 3.2-3.5 on air. Will barcelona be able to reach those frequencies at first? I dont know. But overall it seems like this is merely playing catch up with Intel, not surpassing them. I used to be an AMD fan btw.

At least, one post without fight. gOJDO, and everybody else - this is verry, verry nice. I love to read that.

gOJDO - veliki pozdrav iz Kutine iz Hrvatske, ovo sto si napravio je vrhunski. Uzivao sam citati sve to, a nisam mogao vjerovati da si sa baronom pricao bez svadje. Prosli put kad sam ga branio, napisao si mi da je nenormalni majmun koji nema zivot, pa me iznenadilo kako svi lijepo razovarate. Hvala jos jednom na ovom postu.

Your welcome. I'm always neutral and open-minded...My first cpu was an AMD 3700, then a x2 4800. I currently have a Q6600, so its really hard for me or any serious enthusiast to be biased.

Me, too!This thread is awesome for me because I usually read/post in threads/stickys to try to do three things only:
1) Learn something
2) Help someone/answer OPs questions
3) Ask a question

Thank you gOJDO for the thread very informative even though I don't understand most of this stuff.