Collection of AMD K10 data - Page 2

What do you think about the L1 to L2 and the L1 to L3 buses?
Do you think that L2 is connected to L3 at all?

I can see why L3 would only need to be connected to L1 when L3 gets a hit. There wouldn't be any reason to pass this to L2. However, L3 gets updated when L2 overflows. So, it would seem that L2 would need to be connected to L3 to transfer whatever gets pushed out.

However, from the diagram it rather looks like AMD has some kind of crossbar switch on the L1 cache controller. Perhaps this is the most flexible arrangement if not the most direct.

The $1 Million Dollar Question is...

When?

I don't think they'd stivk it in for release - surely with ZRAM being so radically different it would require an entire new version of the chip?

It would be really cool if we see this as one of the enhancements in the 2008 update though.

I was reading somewhere that the Barcelona's memory controller will be able to support DDR2 as well as DDR3, so when the time comes you can just stick it in a motherboard with the right socket and use DDR3, is this true? Also, I'm assuming this cores memory controller will support 8GB of memory , eg, a regular desktop board with 4 ram slots, and four 2gb ddr2 sticks, like the ones Kingston makes?

Correct me if I'm a dong, but the 2x64bit DDR2 controllers should be able to handle 4GB each?

Correct me if I'm a dong, but the 2x64bit DDR2 controllers should be able to handle 4GB each?
The sAM2+ and s1207+(Quad FX) will support 1067MHz unbuffered DRAM:
2channels x 64bit x 1066.666MHz = 136Gb/s = 17GB/s or 8.5GB/s per channel

The s1207(Opteron 2xxx/8xxx) will support 667MHz buffered DRAM:
2channels x 64bit x 666.666MHz = 85.3Gb/s = 10.7GB/s or 5.3GB/s per channel

as the core2duo is the last iteration of the p6 line, barcelona will be the last for the k7......surely that the perfs will be significantly higher than its intel s coutepart...amd claim some 42 % improvement in certain tasks..more realistically, it will be closer to a solid 20%, according to ipc improvement available...the main advantage of the core duo is its 128 bit sse units, while amd s k8 only offer 64 bit see unit...with a width of 128 bit execution unit, along with the 4 instructions/cycle capability, this processor will blow up intel s product..that s why intel is desesperatly pushing for 45 nm, which will allow it a higher frequency to catch up in the performance duel..frequency versus ipc....smell the p4 versus axp era...

I think he is asking about the maximum memory size supported per channel

Yeah, I'm angling for a 2xQuad and I wanted to see what the max RAM would be for a K10 setup as a single CPU or as a double. It would seem that the AM2+ is for single and the 1207+ would be for double, so would it or would it not figure that the 1207+ could handle twice as much physical RAM?

OK, let's see if I got this straight:

The sAM2+, 1067MHz unbuffered DRAM:

4GB Total RAM in single CPU config.

The s1207+(Quad FX), 1067MHz unbuffered DRAM:

8GB Total RAM in dual CPU config.

The s1207(Opteron 2xxx/8xxx) will support 667MHz buffered DRAM:

8GB Total RAM in single CPU config. 16GB Total RAM in dual CPU config.

Right? :?

I have found out that Asus M2N32-SLI Premium Vista Edition said that the maximum memory supported is 8GB.
http://www.asus.com/products.aspx? [...] odelmenu=2

And I have also found out that from AMD's technical paper,
the maximum support memory is 16GB for one Socket F CPU 8O
http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/co [...] /32559.pdf
Page 98

Updated: from page 32 of the same document, the maximum memory supported for Socket AM2 will be 8GB, the same as claimed by Asus.

I have found out that Asus M2N32-SLI Premium Vista Edition said that the maximum memory supported is 8GB.
http://www.asus.com/products.aspx? [...] odelmenu=2

And I have also found out that from AMD's technical paper,
the maximum support memory is 16GB 8O
http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/co [...] /32559.pdf
Page 98


Thanks for the info, however I'm now more:



Than ever!

:?

Thanks. That's a bit better. What I'm still funcused about is:

QFX (dual socket F) can handle 32GB??? Really???

And just 'cuz the M2N32-SLI can take 8GB does that translate into the chip on the AM2 socket being able to use it all?

:?

They currently support 4 sticks per channel with registered memory and 2 sticks per channel with unregistered. Since 2GB is the common memory size this would be:

unregistered - 2 channels X 2 sticks X 2GB = 8GB total
registered - 2 channels X 4 sticks X 2GB = 16GB total

The memory controller itself can handle up to 16GB per DIMM. So, if 4GB DDR2 DIMMs are released soon anything from Revision F and up can handle it. The maximum speed for Revision F and G is DDR2-800 so Barcelona does support a bit faster speed with DDR2-1066.

The maximum for 1207 with 2BG registered DIMMs is:

1 socket - 16GB
2 socket - 32GB
4 socket - 64GB

Some server OEMs do have special hardware on the motherboard to allow 8 sticks per channel with registered DIMMs (128 GB for quad socket). However, this is not a function of AMD's hardware.

They currently support 4 sticks per channel with registered memory and 2 sticks per channel with unregistered. Since 2GB is the common memory size this would be:

unregistered - 2 channels X 2 sticks X 2GB = 8GB total
registered - 2 channels X 4 sticks X 2GB = 16GB total

The memory controller itself can handle up to 16GB per DIMM. So, if 4GB DDR2 DIMMs are released soon anything from Revision F and up can handle it. The maximum speed for Revision F and G is DDR2-800 so Barcelona does support a bit faster speed with DDR2-1066.

The maximum for 1207 with 2BG registered DIMMs is:

1 socket - 16GB
2 socket - 32GB
4 socket - 64GB

Some server OEMs do have special hardware on the motherboard to allow 8 sticks per channel with registered DIMMs (128 GB for quad socket). However, this is not a function of AMD's hardware.

Thanks for the clarification, guys.

Ok then, let's do some hypotheticals (all UNregistered):

Single Socket AM2+ - 2GB x 4sticks = 8GB

Single Socket AM2+ - 4GB x 4sticks = 16GB

Dual Socket 1207 - 2GB x 4sticks = 8GB

Dual Socket 1207 - 4GB x 4sticks = 16GB

Dual Socket 1207 - 4GB x 8sticks = 32GB

Are all those configurations correct and would K10 be able to fully access all that RAM, given the appropriate motherboard and OS?

Ah, then you should know that the significant difference with Pentium Pro was the use of micro-instruction decoding, translating the x86 instructions into RISC-like instructions. AMD first did this with K5 although it was done independently by Nexgen with K6. Of course, the lead Nexgen architect was a former Intel employee (although he did not work on Pentium Pro). However, K7 would have included any experience gained from both K5 and K6. That is a reasonable separation between the classic and modern instruction decoding on X86. So, if you want to take C2D back to Pentium Pro then Barcelona goes back to K5.

Curious assumption on your part, SSE was released in 2002 and you think I am unaware of it five years later. Also, when you use the word, "passes" that implies that AMD peforms 128 bit SSE operations serially which it does not. The hardware can handle 128 bit words by loading 64 bits through the SSE Multiply port and 64 bits through the SSE Add port. Since the loads themselves have to be done one at a time this takes several cycles but the computation itself is still on a 128 bit word. Barcelona simply removes this necessary hack and makes all of the hardware 128 bits.

However, SSE still does not contain all of the functionality of FP (although it has improved with each update), and math routines are still easier to do by first converting infix notion to postfix notation. This same level of functionality would have to be added to SSE with a math library and this would increase the overhead.

They already did with C2D. C2D's IPC is higher than K8's.

I suppose someone could argue that AMD did the same thing when they created AMD64. And, perhaps the same could be said of 3DNow!

BTW, are you aware that AMD uses the same hardware to do FP as SSE and that Barcelona will as well?

Thanks. That's a bit better. What I'm still funcused about is:

QFX (dual socket F) can handle 32GB??? Really???

And just 'cuz the M2N32-SLI can take 8GB does that translate into the chip on the AM2 socket being able to use it all?

:?

What would you be running to utilize so much memory?unless you do rendering or video editing or that type of thing ,i dont see the need.

SuperFetch could make good use of it. I'm not sure what the point of diminishing returns would be, but i suspect that on a QuadFX platform, one could make use of a substantial amount of memory.

My bad, I thought you were refering to 4x4. But yeah one would think that 2-3-4 GB would be plenty for avg. joe.

thanks for alla the insight..yes, i know, as it s showed in the barcelona diagram that the x87 fpu and sse fpu are in the same pipe..i didn t say that the k8 was unable to make a 128 bit sse calculus, but that it need more clock cycles, as the execution unit are only 64 bit...for the rest, i m agree with the majority of your sayings...

i didn't think you could get 4gb unregistered sticks, and current amd memory controllers only support 2gb unreg sticks, so maybe, i know they can handle the 8gb no problem, but i dont know about any of them that use 4gb stick configs, because i don't know if it supports 4gb unregistered sticks yet, or if they even exist, and even if they did they would cost one hell of a lot of moulah

You're absolutely right that 4GB unreg sticks aren't on the market yet, but given the expectation that K10 won't be around for a while longer, I'm guesstimating that they'll both hit the channel at about the same time. The price of the 4GB sticks will be astronomical when they first hit the streets, but like everything else it will come down fast. RAM prices are generally treading downwards into the realm of reality again anyway, as they had peaked too far and too fast.

So to keep things current, let's only talk about the:

Single Socket AM2+ - 2GB x 4sticks = 8GB

Dual Socket 1207 - 2GB x 4sticks = 8GB

As that is the RAM point that I'm most interested in.

It's now the 12th of Never and K10 is out in all its glory in AM2+ and 1207 config. So out I go and buy it and get 4 sticks of 2GB RAM to plunk into an appropriate motherboard.

Therefore, if I get the AM2+ CPU, and/or if I get 2x1207 CPUs, what now stands in the way of me booting up XP 64, allocating 4GB to Photoshop and the other 4GB to OS and various sw? I'm asking as I am quite unclear on this.

From the specifications, I am quite sure K8 (at least rev. F) and later CPUs can handle 8GB per socket.

This is my happy dance:



That's great! So I can go off and get my 2xQuad and 4x2GB sticks and live happily ever after!

yeah AMD is the only way u can go with that....965\975 boards dont even support 2 gb modules

pope, can you stop trolling on this thread!
if you have something to say about K8L, go ahead. if not, please don't destroy this thread. Also, you don't have to answer me.