GeForce 8600: DirectX 10 For The Masses - Page 3

Last message on previous page:
*sigh* I was really looking forward to the 8600, but they don't seem to be worth buying. I guess I will wait until ATI's cards come out, then decide which card to purchase. I hope the 8800's price goes down.

The target area for is 150 to 250$ I agree with the ape, IF these cards are in that segment (actually only the gts) then it should be in the low end, or 150$ This segment is where they make the most of their monies, sell the most etc. Selling in this segment with this low of a product, means theyre trying to get all they can for as little as possible. Time will tell if ATI/AMD will do the same

From everything I've seen the best version of 8600gt is barely better than the 7600gt in DX9 for more money than it should be. In that respect the 8600gts is a fine choice when it drops lower in price. Probably not long after the r600s are released. Personally I think this is nvidia's intent. They don't have a mainstream DX10 competitor and are hoping the very fact that it supports it (in a mainstream way) is enough to make people jump to buying it for more than it's really worth now. I don't think the card is worth it's price, if I were to even consider it, even if I had a 6600 or 7600, I'd just wait until it reached a lower price to offset it's apparent "It supports DX10, whether you need it or not, so we'll jack it up $25 and hope you bite."
The 8600GTS @ $200 on the other hand seems to be a solid performer at a fair price. I would've liked to have seen it's DX9 performance against an x1950xt w/ 256 though and not the xtx.

there are reviews out there that paint the card in a better light... taking them for what they are worth, and looking at where the 1950pro is I think GrapeApe has a good take on it. If you remove dx10 it is almost a lateral move from the 1950 to the 8600... add 20 bucks for dx10 (which we have no idea how the card will perform with) and you end up with too high a price. When the price drops it will be a solid mid-range card that sits under the 8800 320.

Just my 2 bits on that.

The 8600 GTS sucks. Dont buy it!

Either buy the 8600 GT for 150$ or the 8800 GTS 320 for 250$.

I heard of shader units, but not bus paths. Is this possible?

I don't think you confused me. You talked about getting 64 SP and 256 bits. I heard of unlocking the SPs, but not going from 128 to 256 bits by an unlock.

Well actually it would be just crippling the G80 further, like the GTX to GTS goes 128->96SPs and 386->320bit memory, so 96->64 and 320->256 seems like a logical cripple.

However remember that's a 680million transistor chip only functioning at about 50%. Not very cost effect. It'd be like the R9500P, a killer card, but not something the company wants to make many off unless they have alot of binned parts. It would be better to do a new 350-400million transistor chip specifically designed for the role unless they have alot of rejects.

And a helluva overclocker! Hell yeah!

Well looks like the GF8800GS was a typo;

http://www.guru3d.com/news.html#5223

Either that or an orphan product that just doesn't make market sense and killed off.

A shame, truly a shame... Anyways, "either that or an orphan product that just doesn't make market sense and killed off", OR, someone screwed up the surprise... who knows.

I already ordered my XFX 8600GTS OC... I don't have any more money, so, I hope it gives me decent gaming.

Thanks for the info and links. I'll keep my X1950XT for a while.

I wouldn't worry about this. The ATI 9700 Pro, for example, was released long before DX9, and there never was a problem with DX9 (fully complient). I expect the same true for the 8800.

I wouldn't worry about this. The ATI 9700 Pro, for example, was released long before DX9, and there never was a problem with DX9 (fully complient). I expect the same true for the 8800.

provided it is not another stumble like the FX was in dx9...

...doubtful they would do that again, but you never know.

I wouldn't worry about this. The ATI 9700 Pro, for example, was released long before DX9, and there never was a problem with DX9 (fully complient). I expect the same true for the 8800.

ati had good drivers to begin with........ 8800 was designed for vista and yet they can`t make a descent driver for it. it`s four months now since vista is out! i bet on ati but i hope Nvidia gets it right this time also ........ that`s the only way we end up with nice prices

As good as the 8800 (and the mainstream-targeted 8600) graphics processors are, they are thought of as processors in search of a market (even though both, like the earlier mentioned ATI (now AMD) R3xx, were designed for a version of DirectX without titles at launch; in the case of the 8xxx, it was DX 10, in the case of R3xx, it was actually DX 9). Even though both the 8800 and even 8600 GPUs are easily the best DX 9 GPUs out there, from anybody (that includes AMD's X1950 series, which is no slouch) they are still rather closely identified with DX 10, and with Windows Vista, which is still getting a heavy volume of bad press. (In the interest of full disclosure, I am posting this from a PC running Windows Vista Ultimate, and driven graphically by ATI's old-school AIW 9700 Pro AGP (the multimedia platform for R300). As old as the GPU is, it is still Aero-compliant, and housed in this PC, which is (mostly) still surrounded by other old-school hardware (from the P4 2.6C Northwood CPU to the DDR400 SDRAM sticks to the Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS Gamer pumping out the audio volume), I *still* get a Windows Experience Index of 4.0. Not bad for old-school hardware.)

Even worse (for the 8600 GTS), it commits the egregious *error* of being priced too close to the 320 MB variant of the 8800 GTS for comfort, despite the smaller RAM footprint and half-sized (128-bit vs. 256-bit) GPU-bus, and thus winds up being compared with the 8800, as opposed to its real target, AMD's X1950 Pro and XT. On top of that, the 8600 is PCIe-only, unlike the AMD part, which is still offered in AGP-bus flavors. The upshot is the 8600 GTS is competing for the same customers as the 8800 GTS (which trumps it in bang-for-the-buck), while the AMD part has the AGP holdouts to itself.

Unlike the GeForce FX, the original AMD 9700 lived a long and fruitful life after it was bumped from the top of the ATI AGP food chain (first by the 9800 Pro, then by the X800Pro and XT); in fact, until the X1XXX series was extended two years ago, the 9700 Pro, especially in the AIW flavor, was not only still being supported, but still being sold new (the AIW 9700 Pro was only discontinued in early 2005). The 8600 series is showing every sign of becoming another 7800 GS, or worse, 7600 GT. To add insult to injury, unlike either 7XXXX GPU, it is not available in AGP; an 8600 GTS (or even 8600 GT) in AGP trim would compete directly with the X1950 Pro and XT (but not with the 8800 GTS). Quite honestly, I'm surprised that none of nVidia's AIB partners has forged into this market yet.

Just FYI I saw another FX5200 at both BestBuy and it's sister company Future Shop here in Canada last week, and both were selling new for over $200 CAD ($219/229 respectively).

It's funny what people will buy these days, especially with a new X1950Pro right beside the one at FS on sale for $199. 8O

Well the FX5200 must be better it's $30 more.

Longevity is a strange thing.

I laugh at stuff like that, but then I realize it's just a result of consumers not knowing enough about computer hardware, and then I think to myself "I don't know everything about everything I buy. I wonder what shit I'm buying for more than it's worth or for more than something else that's better?" then I quit laughing.

word. <shudders at thought of money wasted in own life>

There are times that I know enough about something to realize I am buying an older model. Some items start dropping in price on the discontinued version. You can get a good deal at times. What floors me about tech related items (not washers, cars, or tools) is that they justify (somehow) to charge you as if it was new. In the case that you found ape, more than the better new product! I have bought "last years model" on alot of things, but it was priced accordingly. (ok, maybe I still got screwed on some things... but I felt better about it cause at least it was cheaper than the "new" model) The kind of pricing you found there man is just predatory... should be laws against that.

criminals I tell ya! criminals!

indeed, every second at least.

I have some friends that still would look that that 256MB and wonder how my old 9700pro (still kickin strong) could beat it. lol.

But you are right, if you research out a purchase and it dies... well either you need to look in better places or there was just not enough info. (a risk of early adopters) Either way, you should not worry too much. If you don't research it out, then it is your own fault if it sucks. You need to get smarter. Hence the importance of things like the vid card charts and best buy list here on Tom's... quick and easy to use and simple enough to find what to buy. Right now none of the sub-8800 cards are recommended.

Honestly, w/ "teh internets" now there is no excuse for not finding at least something of a review for whatever you are buying. But like you (by way of Mr. Barnum) said, suckers don't play that way. 8)

Just remember though, we're usually not talking about someone who knows better, we're usually talking about Ma or Pa who went in to buy the card for their kid and if they're lucky at least look on the back of a recent game, saw a mnimum spec, and then looked on the shelf.

I just wonder how many times that's happened?

At least they have a good return policy so after the kid has a chuckle at mom or dad, they can go in with aom or dad and exchage it for the X1950Pro or GF7900GS on the shelf beside it.

Yeah the only recent purchase I don't regret, but that I feel I got shafted on was the Audigy NS, and it was by the Notebook companies. Now they are moving to ExpressCards, my PCMCIA Audigy card will become useless to me, and I hate the idea of getting the XFi at twice the price for no benefit over the ZS. I don't want to go the USB route, but it looks like my better choice at the time may have been the TurtleBeach USB, at least that would work in my new laptop. :?

And heck I knew to wait that audigy out for the good driver support (they finally fixed the DVD-A bugwhich was one of my main reasons for buying it, and I knew there'd be upcoming sales. So while I bought it for about 1/3 off, and it was great and I did all the work to pick A>B, in the end I got screwed by the change of spec in the laptops. D'oh!

Hardly... If they bought a FX5200, they were looking for an AGP card... the X1950Pro or 7900GS wouldn't work.

JK Ape.

I was going to edit the post, regarding the AGP version of the X1950Pro... But I thought, "it would kill the joke".
Well, whatever.

"Now, where would I get one of those AGP 7900GS??"