AMD is no stranger to being second. I don't see why a lot of people continue to think the "death" of AMD is possible because they don't outperform Intel. AMD isn't going anywhere.
Money my friend. AMD lost well over a HALF BILLION DOLLARS my friend. If there products aren't better (or priced better) and profitable AMD will disappear.
Well, I am happy with my current motherboard, so if pricing is right, Phenom will definitely be in my future. My 3600+ is perfect with my x1950Pro for now, but as newer, more CPU intensive games come out, I am going to need something that performs better. I have been waiting to see how this is going to perform... It was starting to look like Intel was the only way to go.
--------------- The Truth About GPU Power Consumption Home: E4600@3.6Ghz|AC7|P35|4GB|640GB|8800GT|Vista64|24" P-MVA
Work: Phenom9500@2.5Ghz|AC64|690G|3GB|500GB|8600GT|XP|2x22" TN
Don't get me wrong from the other thread, this chip WILL keep AMD in the game, and they DID sell their debt off recently till 2012.
BUT they needed this chip a year ago at 2.4Ghz, or NOW at these clocks on 45nm with these scaling numbers.
Margin with Intel is going to just keep AMD changing "four quarters for a dollar" for a while until they can get faster parts into consumer hands.
I DO think that AMD now has alot of respect, maybe even an "Apple" type following, in the retail space, which should help too.
Everyone is looking at this from all angles, I just think that what everyone is trying to say is this isn't Opteron in 2003, where Intel was running for cover and had no products that could really compete.
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djcoolmasterx - "Ofcourse there is nothing that you are doing that will use that kind of power, beacuse you don't have that kind of powr to do things with."
Here is the official AMD definition of their new acronym ACP:
ACP is Average CPU Power - "Measuring processor power draw on all CPU power rails while running accurate and relevant commercially useful high utilizationworkloads*"
The 2.5 to 3+ Ghz Phenom X4's will be worth our money come Christmas time. It will be nice to see the gaming benchmarks for these K10's. It looks like its going to be good for AMD.
I think this will be a seller, for one reason. upgrades, it is alot cheaper to upgrade all your old opterons to the quadcore barcys than to re-build your machines with intel motherboards and chips as an upgrade. and since the performance if better and also cooler than the opterons, people will use them in enrty level servers or much more dense computing clusters.
But it might not be so easy for everyone. There were reports coming out a week or so ago, it looks like there is something wrong with Nvidia chipsets (at least at the workstation/server level) in supporting Barcelona. I'll search for the links and stuff again, thought I had them bookmarked.
The results are pretty interesting. I don't think that the K10 architecture is the magic bullet AMD needed to dominate across the board as with the late A64 vs P4 days, but things could be far worse. These are my views based on the data from the Anandtech articles:
- AMD should be able to comfortably hold the server performance crown in non integer 2P and 4P systems, whereas they seem to be neck and neck in other situations
- The Phenom should be able to compete on the desktop in most areas, although I doubt it will retake the ultimate performance crown due to Intels large clock speed advantages, even if the Phenom is pushed to 3GHz
- Unless the Phenoms overclock really well, which would buck the trend based on previous AMD chips, then I see most enthusiasts into overclocking sticking with Intel.
In reality, things wouldn't be too bad in this situation - they hold onto the lucrative server market to bring in the cash, and have a competitive but not dominant desktop chip. They might not bring back many enthusiasts but OEMs should stick with them.
You can't really look at the Opteron comparison Anand did for desktop since Phenom will use 1006DDR2 and HT3. Plus mobos will be tweaked for speed rather than stability (not that they won't be stable).
From what I've seen in the benches out, K10 will - as many say - take off at 2.6GHz. And Anand did have a 2.5GHz chip so AMD can make them.
I would expect that the Phenom stepping will get higher than 3GHz OC. My guess is about 3.4GHz since it is finally a 65nm NATIVE design and not a shrink.
And the scaling over K8 is SUBSTANTIAL with greater than 100% in a few tests and that's with higher clocked K8s. It looks like AMD has actually delivered as the POV-Ray efficiency shows greater efficiency than even the high clocked Xeons.
seems like a good take on the situation. What I think will be interesting is the Multi CPU servers where AMD traditionally has been dominant.
As far as Phenom, the scalability will help it compete but, by then AMD will have had some time to also do Arch. improvements. They have done this traditionally through the lifespan of K8. They will probably be able to tweak K10 quite a bit and squeeze quite a bit more clock for clock performance out of it. The question is how long it will be between these incremental improvements.
The bread and butter is the server market for AMD. Keep in mind, if the ATI based motherboards are selling well this will also boost AMD profits. Now, ATI needs to get the crap straightened out. What a blunder the ATI purchase has been. They really didn't deliver with R600 like everyone thought before the purchase. Come on 65nm R600 we need some competition in the highend parts.
I kind of agree with rammedstein, the age of the older opteron systems would warrant an upgrade right about now, they would have gotten their value, but they aren't old enough that they would have been tossed in the dumpster. Barcelona could see ALOT of stopgap sales into aging systems. If companies are really thirsty to upgrade their servers but are too cheap (they usually are) to change platform, this processor could be a real hit.
If AMD was REALLY smart, they should make a S939 version of Barcelona, any newer features of the chip that needs more than 939 pins would be disabled... That would be alot of desktops they could make a sale to that are ripe for an upgrade.
Or, if Barcelona is completely unworkable in S939, they should continue to sell Opteron 185's for alot longer and keep them mainstream. People are struggling to find an S939 Opteron in the stores for their home PCs, and S939 isn't really that old. They also trumpeted S939 to have a really long support life and huge upgrade path, then they dumped it too quick.
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djcoolmasterx - "Ofcourse there is nothing that you are doing that will use that kind of power, beacuse you don't have that kind of powr to do things with."
From what I have heard about comparing AMD K8/K10 to current Intel chips, ACP makes since.
Please correct me if I am wrong, but AMDs K8/K10 integrated memory controler does not utilize a trivial amount of power (potentially generating more heat as well). Why not come up with a new metric to compare to Itel's chips? A different comparison might be AMD core ACP verses Intel ACP for core+MCH (North Bridge), if that is possible? Maybe we will have to wait until Nehalem to make the proper comparisons, the way Intel is bulldozing along that might only be a year away.
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Take what man makes and use it,
But do not worship it,
For it shall pass.
Has anyone seen that Intel has increased their projected revenue for Q3 up from a range of 9.0 to 9.6 billion to 9.4 to 9.8 billion. If this turns out to be true and I don't know how much the market expanded then this could be another loss of Market share or just that Intel was able to sell more of their more expensive high end parts. But the story did say that is was increase worldwide demand so either Intel took market share from AMD or they took most of the increase market for their own and AMD did not expand at all.
[quote="nilo"]Not true at all. Barcelona clock speed is nowhere near Intel. Therefore Xeons and even more so Penryns will dominate server market.[/quote]
Right, because clock speed is the deciding factor. I suppose that means the P4 is the best CPU out there?
How about, AMD has a MUCH better "fsb" implementation, and will dominate 4+ socket servers.
I don't think it matters if Barcelona is 5% slower if the platform makes it scale far better.
I'm still interested to see how Phenom will be on the desktop though, it looks like it will be about on par with Intel once they ramp up the clockspeed, at least I hope so. I'm not a fan of either company, but I don't wanna be in a world without AMD, so for that reason only I hope Phenom is as good or better than Intel's offering.
[quote="nilo"]Not true at all. Barcelona clock speed is nowhere near Intel. Therefore Xeons and even more so Penryns will dominate server market.[/quote]
Right, because clock speed is the deciding factor. I suppose that means the P4 is the best CPU out there?
That's only true if Barcelona's IPC is significantly faster than C2D, which as it appears, not the truth. As a result, Intel's clockspeed advantage still holds.
Quote :
How about, AMD has a MUCH better "fsb" implementation, and will dominate 4+ socket servers.
Which is a niche market. Although Intel's FSB approach is inferior in scaling, Intel overcame this by increasing the cache size. The result? Xeon outperformed in most benchmarks in 1P~2P range.
Quote :
I don't think it matters if Barcelona is 5% slower if the platform makes it scale far better.
Again, if the company only needs 1P server, that 5% is going to cause AMD to lose its sale.
[quote]I'm still interested to see how Phenom will be on the desktop though, it looks like it will be about on par with Intel once they ramp up the clockspeed, at least I hope so. I'm not a fan of either company, but I don't wanna be in a world without AMD, so for that reason only I hope Phenom is as good or better than Intel's offering.[/quotemsg] Not to be a party pooper, but Intel already have 3Ghz + Penryn in their warehouse. However, AMD's 3Ghz is no where to be seen.
Message edited by yomamafor1 on 09-11-2007 at 09:06:53 AM
AMD will not need 3Ghz to compete with intels 3Ghz... its obvious that their IPC is higher then the core architecture. Remember, Penryn is just a die shrink. The 2.5Ghz Barcy will likely compete well with the 3Ghz Penyrn... and from what I gather, will launch to the masses at the same time.
