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<speculation>The MB manufacturers are probably going to need some time to implement the TLB erratum fix, which AMD wants mandatory on B2 Barcelona/Agena cores.

Thanks MU_Enginee but i already knew it had to be off. As for fxing it i tell the kid basically I dont want to be bother'd with that junk pile machine. When he has the cash to spend I am going to build him a new machine.
Oh and the 1st thing i did check was the bios. But there aint nothing in there. Its a hp machine and the bios has nada in it. Thanks for your input through, its my fault for not making it clear in my last post.  

 
I agree, ASUS seems to go the extra mile. I am kind of a tinkerer and can afford to experiment a bit. I almost go with ASUS. I have the little ASUS laptop with a leather case and it beats the heck out of the sonys of the same size.  
 
I got the ASUS maximus special edition and a 9650 processor about a month ago just to see if it really was that special and the board is by far one of the best boards I have ever used.

 
If it were really that easy for everyone to just buy a new motherborard everytime, then why has the biggest advertising point for AMD been backward compatibility and the biggest complaint for Intel been new motherboards needed. Not everyone can afford new motherboards, or find motherboards with the features they want, just because its a year old doesnt mean its crap. I had a msi board that they supported for over 2 years with bios updates.

 
Vista was also touted as the most upgrade-friendly Windows yet... AM2 is also upgrade friendly: there are two steps: Flash BIOS, drop in Phenom. Unfortunately flashing the BIOS is the MB manufacturers responsibility, NOT AMD's. As far as AMD is concerned, AM2 IS upgrade friendly. To expect them to bear responsibility for MB manufacturer's shortcomings is like expecting MS to release a driver for every single piece of hardware that does not work with Vista.

 
Intel E8400

Recent History lesson:
 
Non-fanboy enthusiasts who buy performance not brands owned skt 939.  Socket AM2 added ddr2 support and lowered performance supposedly in the name of preparing for the future.  Many of these enthusiasts when faced with a motherboard upgrade did the logical thing and bought a lg775 motherboard which without question was the best upgrade path in terms of top performance.  Some despite Core 2's superior performance went am2 with the hope that k10 would one day beat out core 2.  
 
Now here we are and k10 did not outperform core2 but again the loyal AMD customers are being pushed/prodded and encouraged to upgrade to am2+.  Surly there must be others besides me who see this as AMD yet again unwittingly screwing the few loyal customers they have left.
 
This whole blame the MB makers not AMD is not realistic.  If you just spent the last "forever" bringing a new architecture to market it is you're job to ensure that the industry is supporting it.
 
At the end of the day mine and our opinions don't speak nearly as loudly as how badly AMD is performing as a business.

For all those talking about the mobo manufactuers not making money then AMD should have made sure they would support Phenom first instead of touting their easy upgrade path shpeil.
 
I agree that if you want the latest features then yes by all means buy a newer board with chipset as thats all it really needs such as the P965 will support Penryn/Yorkfeild but thats up to the mobo manufactuers there since Intel never stated it was made to.
 
As for the mobo makers not making the BIOS update, Why would Asus go to the trouble of getting theirs  to work with Phenom, and even some P965s working if when they could push 790fx's or even X38s? Reason being is they know great support would make people come back. Hell I use only Asus and highly reccomend them due to great performance and feaures.
 
AMD made a promise, the mobo makers decided not to and then that turns AMDs promise into a false unfifilled promise. Makes AMD look bad and the mobo makers look either greedy or lazy.

Daaang, those overly long posts hurt my brains...
 
Baron! Where are you?!
 
 
...don't tell me he left for vacation...

 
heh... did you see the mac commercials? I give respect to Microsoft for making vista as compatible as it is, that was a daunting task indeed.
 
It is impossible to deny, however, that both the Mobo manufacturers and AMD are at fault here.

 
Maybe Baron was invited with the other two true believers to the secret showing of the BLACK edition. They can't have it in Tahoe this time, AMD is kind of strapped right now so they are having it in a 20 foot container behind a Wallmart.    

MU, I agree with much of what you wrote except this:
 
 

 
Now, it is true that support of old products is a losing proposition in terms of sales of new products..........to an extent..........in the short term.  
 
Your example of M$ is not completely true to this case. M$ has no competition to speak of. Yes there is Linux/unix (and their derivatives), Jaguar (or leapard, or cheetah or I-can-only-run-Photshop or whatever it is that apple is calling their new OS), but really, those are not mainstream competitive threats to M$. The mobo industry on the other hand is significantly different than either the OS or DT CPU industries, with dozens of viable, competative manufacturers at any given time. Intel, Asus, Abit, Asrock, Biostar, DFI, eVGA, Foxconn, Gigabyte, ECS, MSI, Tyan, Supermicro, just to name a few. Mobo manufacturers come and go. Promising (read threatening) startups get bought out. Some sit contentedly producing OEM crap, some dont. Some excel, some fail. In short, not only is there competition in the motherboard market, but thriving, cut throat competiton. To sell products, but cut short support for those products opens the door for the competitor(s) who will provide consistant support. The first rule of business:" If we don't take care of our customers... someone else will" Now, knowing that of the boards tested, only Asus supported Phenom, what does that do for Asus's reputation? What about the reputations of the other manufacturers who didnt support Phenom? In motherboards, unlike OS's, and (for the time being) Quad core DT CPUs, we, the consumers have viable options. Reputations for customer support go a long, long way when one has options from which to choose, and while Asus may loose sales of newer more expensive 790 chipped mobos in the short term, how will their support of Phenom be viewed in the long term? What about the next time someone, anyone, is faced with a motherboard upgrade descision to make? What about right now? I recently purchased 2 of the Asus M2A-VM  boards to upgrade family members systems. They were fantasitic deals. Knowing how solid the Asus M2A-VM is, and knowing it supports Phenom only further strengthens my opinion of Asus. But what about the other folks who want a cheap upgrade that will support Phenom, and are willing to do without the 790 chipset? Seems to me there is a strong possibility that Asus may be selling those individuals some $76 M2A-VM  motherboards. Also remember, socket A and socket 939 are not really dead. Dead ends? Yes. Buried alive? Yes. But not dead, only because there are still systems in use. Those systems will have to be upgraded sometime, and the supply of NOS/Ebay parts is finite. Who are those folks going to look to?
 
Im not going to even think about whos 'fault' it is for BIOS support on this issue, there are way to many other problem/possiblities to cogitate on. Im looking at the possible outcomes of this, not the causes, AMD POed no insignificant amount of DIYers when they prematurely ended support for 939. Im guessing they knew they would, but felt the benefits outwieghed the risks, or simply didnt have any other choice. Conversley, they made a whole lot of people happy (myself included) when they cut prices on AM2. I have said, and still believe that it was/is a long term stratedgy...accept the lower margins now, get the sockets on the market now, regain/hold on to market share........then, down the road, when the time is right (it should have been the 'Phenom' time) raise the margins on return customers/upgrades. Regardless of whose fault it is, failing to support Phenom is going to be bad, both for AMD and the mobo makers who decide not to update their BIOS/CPU support...in the long term. All those folks who bought off on the AM2/ to AM2+ to AM3 upgrade philosophy, and did infact move to AM2 from 939, or socket A or 775 are going to POed when they find that the Phenom they were waiting for wont work in their mobo. Who will they look to? The same manufacturers who 'shafted' them? In some cases not once but twice? Or will they move to the manufacturer they heard/read/saw didnt shaft their customers??  I know which way I would go. What about you?  

I still weep over my 2 stranded 939's  ... both top end boards from ASUS with nothing faster than 2.4 that I can readily lay my hands on easily.
 
All my AM2's are lower end MN ASUS  parts - I would not bother to drop a phenom in them as the kids use them for gaming ... no real gain from a quad there.
 
I am at a crossroad it seems.
 
I may need some advice on a Q66 mobo for my next upgrade at this rate.
 
I'd better buy it soon - the price will likely triple within a month if AMD goes belly up.
 
 

 
 
I know youre in Australia, but cant you find an FX 55 there?
 
US FX 55 - 21 NIB in stock
 
This guy ships to Canada. Maybe, maybe he will ship down under.

 
iawtc, its all the motherboard's fault, not AMD...

Thanks turpit but I have a couple of 4400+'s running at 220 which gives me 2.4. (4800+ speed)
 
The FX60 / Opti 185 would be an ideal step up ... just too pricey here or hard to find better silicon to play with.
 
The X2  standard 939's are not great overclockers.
 
At least the AM2 mobo people stung by incompatability with phenom can still use their DDR2 for a new system if they jump to an intel quad.
 
939'ers were stranded with both the socket and the ram.
 

 
Actually, the problem with Intel then is the problem with AMD now. Like I said in my prior post, I'd hoped for Conroe to return Intel competitiveness and I'd really wanted Conroe, but I went AMD and became a fan for the following reasons:
 
Voltage changes made most socket 775 boards for P4 and P4 D useless for Conroe.
 
Some posters remarked that Intel 965 chipset owners were left out in the dark for Conroe, that's true for older boards, but some manufacturer's were able to update the bios for their newer 965 boards that had Conroe capable voltage regulation.  
 
Most 965 chipset board/P4 owners could not upgrade to Conroe because of voltage issues, not the chipset or the CPU package. That's not true with AM2, as any AM2 board with a correct bios can support Phenom. AMD planned for Phenom to work with the voltages standard for AM2. That's better support than Intel provided when they wanted people to upgrade their boards for Conroe.
 
AMD did drop the ball, but their failures mirror Intel's in the last generation and their marketing isn't as bad as Intel's. AMD might tout the performance of Phenom as part of the total 790 AM2+ with two to four 3000 series cards as a total platform, but they also provided an upgrade path that motherboard makers are reluctant to follow right now. Perhaps it's because of the errata, perhaps it's because Phenom isn't cheap enough to slap into an AM2 board for most people with anything past a Windsor 4600+. I really don't know what the motherboard manufacturer's are thinking.
 
I just don't blame AMD for the lack of bios support. I only "blame" AMD for the errata, and I actually blame them for the bios fix that slows the processors down even more. I'll probably put the slowest Phenom into the ASUS 690G board later on. Each Phenom core beats an Athlon X2 core but not enough to go quad core right now.
 
It's still cheaper for me to upgrade my two AM2 boards to Phenom than to buy new hybrid Crossfire boards that won't work alongside the 3850 in Crossfire, or to buy new X38 boards and Intel quad cores. I just can't see doing it this spring, like I'd planned. That is the tragedy AMD is facing right now, that even AM2 owners with boards having an available bios aren't convinced that the performance is there over a dual core Windsor or Brisbane considering that most programs still don't support 3 or 4 cores.
 
Still, I might just go triple core, if the price is right, just to shore up AMD. Hybrid Crossfire won't be worth it until Fusion arrives, considering the first generation won't have the energy features and only works with (ugh) 2400 or 3400 GPU's. They must be having some problems with asynchronous Crossfire and therefore can only offer Crossfire with identical low end cards. That might work for notebooks, but not for budget gamer and multimedia desktop builds.
 

 
He probably means 95F. That old P4 630 with a nice CoolerMaster fan that sounded like a turbojet revving up would get to 32-33C, which is around 90 to 91 F. With that fan it ran about as cool as the X2 3800+ Windsor with stock AMD fan. Still, it was slower than the X2 3800+ and used more juice.