Nvidia GeForce 9800 GX2 Review - Page 2

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I only have two regrets with the 3870x2:

1. It had DDR3 and a DDR4 version is in the works.

2. It seems to be as much of a stopgap as the 9800gx2 because the 4xxx series is due in June. A 4870 should be as fast as a 3870x2 without worrying about games that don't support Crossfire. The 4870x2 should be 100% faster than a 3870.

As is, I don't know whether to move the 3870x2 to one of our other PC's this fall and get a 4870x2, or just get a 4850 that's clocked at 850 and do CrossfireX with a new board and power supply once Deneb arrives.

Overall image quality with ATI is a bit better in my subjective opinion; though Nvidia did correct the blur found in the 7xxx series with the 8xxx series. Nvidia tweaks for sheer framerates, but that can be dodgy at worst. Note Crysis' water not displaying perfectly in one driver release. Also, Linkboost on Nvidia boards creates inflated benchmarks for the 9600gt. and it's been reported that overclocked 9600gt's had to be clocked down to work on those boards.

So, how is it hard to buy AMD? I'd trade a few less fps for a better history of image quality along with more transparency, such that I can trust the benchmarks for an ATI card, but if a site doesn't do their homework with Nvidia, I can't trust those benchmarks at all.

All good, but-

Can I watercool this thing?

No way I am giving up my cool and quiet under 50c at load box for a heat beast, and looks like it will be tricky to get a waterblock in there BETWEEN 2 pcbs........

@ halfassed... well done!

I dont understand Nvidia's logic either... why take that step back in bit bus? ATI did the same thing. They had the 2900 at 512bit and now they shrunk it to 256 for the HD3000 series. Although performance is better.

Nvidia has the same pride thing going that AMD did a year ago. AMD had a huge opportunity to merge with Nvidia and had a very solid relationship with them and that all fell apart due to the companies CEO pride and wanting to "do it myself" and run "things that I want to them to run".

Well I can't speak for other countries but in Sweden 9800GX2 costs exactly as much as two 8800GTS and it seems that the performance doesn't differ that much. So the 9800GX2 would be a nice upgrade for people that don't have a SLI motherboard.

If you enable/crank fsaa it would pull ahead from an Ultra even at 16x10 or 16x12 just like SLI G92 does. http://www.firingsquad.com/hardwar [...] /page6.asp
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardwar [...] /page3.asp

(edit: check out all the games, not just the first one I linked to)

Thats right but in many games the difference isnt very much, lets put all the 1600x1200 scores:

FEAR:
9800GX2:114
8800ULTRA:84

COH:
9800GX2:55
8800ULTRA:47

OBLIVION:
9800GX2:64
8800ULTRA:42

HL2:EP2 :
9800GX2:98
8800ULTRA:82

LOSTPLANET:
9800GX2:60
8800ULTRA:40

COD4:
9800GX2:124
8800ULTRA:72

CRYSIS:
9800GX2:33
8800ULTRA:26

BIOSHOCK:
9800GX2:140
8800ULTRA:93

But thats when u enable both AA and AF in games and in some games it doesnt make much difference using them and thats when THG REVIEW says:
Having said this, we do not recommend buying a GeForce 9800 GX2 for those who rarely change graphic cards and want to invest in a very high end card and keep it for a long time. There are times when a card like this should excel, like when games are played at high resolutions and with demanding settings, but the 9800 GX2 is barely better than a simple GeForce 8800 Ultra. The problem, as is the case with the 3870 X2, is the relatively meager 512 MB of memory, which is incompatible with very high resolutions and when antialiasing is activated. The numbers speak for themselves: the 9800 GX2 out performs the 8800 Ultra (with 768 MB) by 29% on average and up to 41% at a resolution of 2560x1600, while activating antialiasing at this resolution shortens the gap to 13%. Yet, for many games, it's the only mode that still isn't smooth and the 9800 GX2 doesn't deliver much.

I hope some versions of the 9800GX2 and GTX will be available soon with more RAM. It took about a month to a 1Gb 9600GT for sale.
Tom said in the review than RAM was a limiting factor.

At 16x12 those scale 17-72 % over the 8800U. That's not bad and surely doesn't equate to it needs high resolution to beat an ultra. No Ultra owners should not upgrade to a GX2, but still not a bad victory based on FS's review IMO. What's bad is the price of both the GX2 and the Ultra; neither are worth the money over one GTSG92, or over dual 9600GT, 8800GT, 8800GTS G92.

edit: Actually, based on the numbers you posted from their review, the GX2 beats the ultra by an average of 40% at 16x12. Not bad at all IMO. Still too much $$$ though.

FEAR: 35.7%
COH: 17.0%
OBLIVION: 52.4%
HL2:EP2 : 19.5%
LOSTPLANET: 50%
COD4: 72.2%
CRYSIS: 26.9%
BIOSHOCK: 50.5%

INNOVATEK GEFORCE 9800GX2 WATER BLOCK

http://xtreview.com/addcomment-id- [...] block.html

Granite3 > Yes you can, in fact we saw some waterblocks compliant with the 9800 GX2 earlier this month at the CeBIT. It was at the Alpha Cool booth.

I'm predicting the death of nVidia by 2010-2011.

1. Intel have announced they will go in direct competition with nVidia & ATI/AMD GPUs (I predicted this a year ago and it's now official)
2. 9800GX2 is not new technology
3. nVidia chipsets with 3-way sli is focused on a tiny market
4. 8800GTX was release late 2006, it's now 18 months later and nVidia are still releasing effectively the same product
5. Still a large number of game titles where SLI is of no benefit
6. 9800GX2 AA performance is a serious problem
7. WHQL driver updates are far and few between
8. Price, why would anyone spend this kinda money on a 9800GX2 when 8800GTX performs better with AA enabled?

Not sure why nVidia have decided to leave the door open, perhaps they were hoping to be bought. But there isn't anyone interested in buying them right now nor in the future.

And no, this isn't a "wait for the drivers to mature" problem with AA. The core of the 9800GX2 is not fundamentally different than 8800 and writing drivers to optimize AA isn't exactly "new".

nVidia should seriously think about getting rumors out of truely "new" technology, unless of course they have a contract with Sony or Microsoft for the next console -- this is about the only thing that will save them now.

9800GX2 is the best they can do after 18 months? This is laughable, but unfortunately predictable.

Im thinking the new arch will be another grabber/must have. Intel has to do discrete before they do multichip to reach these levels. Thats going to cost them. This is what nVidia and ATI do for a living, and are setup for it. One question oes anyone have any info on whether Intel plans on making their own gpus, or making or retreading a plant to do so? or are they going to use tsmc like the others

^^ absolutely... and not only has Nvidia flooded the market but Intel is falling into the same thing. I have not quite understood why they would release 45nm with no competition. As long as it's profitable though right? I would have waited until at least a product was out that was capable of competing with 65nm. Nvidia does have good competition though. I just dont understand though why they even bothered with the 8800GT... why didnt they just wait until the 8800GTS was up and capable and release them at a great price and extremely available. I also think they should have called it the 8900GT not the 8800 series of cards. And this card would make more sense being called 8950GX2 likes it's little brother 7950GX2.
So Nvidia is doing the same thing... Now what? They need to let us sit on our products and enjoy them... and think about the customers who have bought there products and try to improve driver performance. But that's just not profitable.
Alright my rant is over!

Think of it this way. It primes the pump. In Intels situation, sure they have 45nm, but theyre awfully hard to find, harder than the C2Ds when they first appeared, and most people with C2Ds wont be going to 45nm right away. Good market strategy. In nVidias situation, they came out with the 8xxx series, which is similar to the C2Ds performance/stance, almost insurmountable. BUT, they lost the crown as the fastest single slot solution. So right after their CEO comes out and almost condemns a X2 solution, here we have the GX2. Always looks good to be No. 1. They mix up their naming, do a die shrink, etc, but the only difference between the C2D scenario and the 8-9xxx series scenario is that ATI actually caught up, even if it was fleeting, they did. So whats that mean to the market? Competition. AMD has kept their prices low (competition) thus making nVidia do the same. I really wonder why people get sooo excited about an old arch? This isnt the G100/200. This is the Ultra rehashed in a different form. Wait until the new arch's are out, then well see improvements equal to the pricing

In every game? Theres driver/compatibility issues with a SLI setup, as well as extreme heat issues within your case using one. Yes, the 8800GTX is hot, but not like this. Wait til the GTX comes out, then well see whether theres a huge improvement. And because there most likely wont be, itll be priced accordingly, thanks to competition

Why is there a picture of a green turd with arms and legs on the heatsink cover of this card?

Agreed^^
2 8800GTS 512/GTX/ULTRA still beat the 9800GX2

I do wonder what would have happened had Nvidia and AMD merged. Nvidia has so many fans that they had enough cash to bail AMD out and fund future research. If AMD had "bought" Nvidia, rather then the other way around, AMD would be in a worse situation today.

As is, I'm glad they didn't because I like supporting the innovative CPU underdog while also supporting my favorite GPU company. If only there were gamer competitive AIW cards. I really don't like just using a TV Wonder. Some of us want our computers to do virtually everything well. It's not just a HTPC or a gaming rig (though the situation's forcing me to build an HTPC).

I'm glad AMD bought ATI. Besides great GPU's, ATI had better chipsets than Nvidia. Plus Crossfire scales better and should become the de facto standard that Intel adopts for their discrete GPU's. The way it's going, without their own version of Swift, Nvidia will really have to rely upon a fanboy market to buy Nvidia SLI boards plus Nvidia cards with AMD CPU's, since Intel hasn't licensed their next generation to Nvidia yet.

AH, don't even suggest that. We would need Intel to get serious in discrete graphics or we would never see the kind of bargains out there like today and progress would crawl toward a halt. I love this competion, there are some pretty amazing cards throughout the $50-250 range. I'm looking forward to the HD3850/3870 price cuts to pass on to us.

^Yea, its a shame they want $100 just so it it wont compete with the X2. They got us coming and going. If you have a SLI mobo, its $100 more, if you dont, it isnt the same performer, and still overpriced

People said that too about Microsoft versus Sony...

Playstation has no chance, Bill Gates has a bazillion million billion...

At least the 9800GTX price does not seem to bad for a card that is supposed to beat the old GTX and ultra:

http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php? [...] 4&Itemid=1

sorry for double post

The 8800GTX has the extra memory to support higher levels of AA at higher resolutions. I think we are hitting the point where the memory available on a video card needs to be increased. Whats the point of putting 512MBs on a high end video card thats designed to run at 2500x1600? I'll grant you at this res there isn't much point in using AA, but having one gig would be nice.

You may go SLI with your 8800GTS, but two 9800GX2 is like having four 8800GTS's ($1200) if you can get a high enough OC. My opinion is wait for the new tech that Nvidia will release in end of 2008-2009, my bet is November 2009 .

Fantastic.. as Mrsbytch has so eloquently put down.. Did you get it horse style from the rear or did they at least put you bear naked in with the (in season) gorillas?

I have an important point to make on the subject of allowing Nvidia to pass off their remaining wafer inventory and rebranding it under the umbrella of a hyped up marketing plan designed to maximize shareholder value whilst taking advantage of their existing customer base..

It is important for those who have currently and through our hard work purchased a fine GPU specimen from the Nvidia 8800 line to thoroughly examine exactly how Nvidia's marketing department decided that '08 was to be the year that garbage dumping their remaining inventory upon the unknowingly, not mindful, and negligent general population has set the stage for a 40% drop in the stock price, forfeiting market share to ATI as well as served to take for granted the fact that like most of us on this forum take our time and have the intelligence to examine thoroughly what we are buying and why. Cheers! may we share drink and be merry!

The rest that don't see the obvious and relinquish themselves to blissful negligence and thoughtlessness -
CAVEAT EMPTOR
Thank goodness for these forums empowering us towards informed decision making.
Best of luck with your purchases

Blackwater11