Really. Nehalem uses a new socket? Well I'll be darned. Considering that its a whole new chip, with an IMC, and it will also go up to 8 cores that makes sense. Socket 775 lasted a good 5 years.
There is more of a drawback than having to use DDR2 with the 45nm Phenoms. No support for the newer faster HTT, maybe 4.0?, AM2+ will not support the newer features that an AM3 board will. Its linke when you plug a Phenom into a AM2 board. No HTT 3.0 and no support for a lot of the power saving features. Plus when other features like SATAIII, 600MB/s per drive, comes out you will need a new board.
And what makes you think a die shrink of the current K10 architecture will give Phenom a super boost in performance? It probably will increase it a bit but I doubt by gobs full.
Its great that the Phenom is getting close to competative but its not quite there yet. Besides I prefer to build a entirely new system every 2-3 years that way I can take advantage of all the new goodies out there instead of limiting what my CPU can do due to an older socket.
Most AM2+ boards now support Hyper Transport up to 5200 MT/S so yes HT 4.0 probably will be supported.
The Phenom X4 9850 uses Hyper Transport of course to 4000 MT/S
The upcoming Phenom FX-82 should work fine on a AM2+ board and probably will use 5200 MT/s which is the upper limit on the AM2+ boards.
Limitations DDR2 memory(1066Mhz) with the AM2+,uses DDR3 with the AM3 so only a little performance leaps with fast DDR3 memory.Can do without a SATA III hard drive right now.Just set up cheap SATA II's in RAID just choose ones with fast seek times and big cache memory.
I think the Phenom FX-82 will probably have similar performance as an Intel Quad Core Q9450 maybe a little faster(Let's hope).It won't be a huge difference but it will be better.
yipsi I think there is no official support probably because some people might attempt to overclock the Phenom X4 9850 on that GA-MA78GM-S2H Motherboard and burn it out.I would venture to guess that is the reason.If one went with that motherboard it would probably be wise to get a much beefier excellent heatsink and fan for it if one chose that route.
Most AM2+ boards now support Hyper Transport up to 5200 MT/S so yes HT 4.0 probably will be supported. The Phenom X4 9850 uses Hyper Transport of course to 4000 MT/S
The upcoming Phenom FX-82 should work fine on a AM2+ board and probably will use 5200 MT/s which is the upper limit on the AM2+ boards.
Limitations DDR2 memory(1066Mhz) with the AM2+,uses DDR3 with the AM3 so only a little performance leaps with fast DDR3 memory.Can do without a SATA III hard drive right now.Just set up cheap SATA II's in RAID just choose ones with fast seek times and big cache memory.
I think the Phenom FX-82 will probably have similar performance as an Intel Quad Core Q9450 maybe a little faster(Let's hope).It won't be a huge difference but it will be better.
yipsi I think there is no official support probably because some people might attempt to overclock the Phenom X4 9850 on that GA-MA78GM-S2H Motherboard and burn it out.I would venture to guess that is the reason.If one went with that motherboard it would probably be wise to get a much beefier excellent heatsink and fan for it if one chose that route.
Dude this is just the upper limit for HTT 3.0. That means that yes it will run a chip with HTT4.0 but it will not support the true speed of HTT4.0 and will revert to the fastest possible HTT3.0 setting.
I have yet to hear anything about AMD releasing a FX series chip. I thought the BE was taking over for the FX. BTW whats the speeds of the FX-82?
Or you could set 2 SATAIII HDD's in a RAID0 with the same low seek times and big cache therefore giving you much better load times and helping to kill one of the biggest bottlenecks on the PC. My main point is that an AM2+ board today will not be a viable solution in 1-1.5 years. Sure it will support it but the CPU will be held back by the older, harder to find and more expensive (due to its rarity) hardware.
Well, it could be a marketing fault, or it could just be that ASUS plans to support the B3 on boards that can handle 125 watts, 100 amps, but haven't gotten the bios out in time. Let's face it, the watts/amps issue with the 780G is a sad thing, when motherboard companies market a new chipset board for limited use.
However, if an older AMD or Nvidia chipset board only supports 95 watts, then what are they to do? I think you are being too critical because ASUS stepped up and supported the original Phenom's on AM2 boards. The B3's mainly fix the TLB, but they also involve a big change in the watts required. Someone on the 780G thread said the 125 watt B3's pull 100 amps whereas the older 125 watt X2 6400+ only pull 89 (Am I remembering right here guys?). So, there are socket voltage issues that simply make B3 support on an AM2 board risky.
No knowledgeable Intel fan like yourself Hellboy, can blame AMD for CPU socket voltage issues when Intel's reason for changing out socket T boards has usually been CPU voltage related. This is not an issue to blame AMD. They have many issues that upset me, but support of new B3 125 watt Phenom's on AM2 boards is not one of them.
If my wife doesn't want to fool with a B2 (and she said she doesn't want a CPU with errata, she can do graphics but knows squat about hardware. All CPU's have errata), I might just ask her to switch motherboards. She'll get an Athlon X2 4600+ instead of her present X2 3800+ and I can order a 9600 when that income tax check arrives.
No way do I want to spend the money before the summer on a 790FX board and a 9850BE now. I'd rather wait for AM3 to buy an expensive motherboard. Maybe I could see if I can duplicate the errata? I know I'd have the fix turned off in the bios, if I got a B2.
Give it up on the socket 939. You and TC. I bet there are still people upset that their socket A processors don't have new CPU's. I know there are people who wish AGP had not died, and that there was a low end Pentium C2D for their socket 478. I have a socket T that doesn't support C2D in a fourth PC, but am I kvetching? I did once, but I got over it. Intel does those voltage changes and we just have to get used to them.
There is a list on AMD's web site. Caveat Emptor. Check before you buy. Don't just trust marketing. There is no reason why any upgrader can't check their motherboard's CPU support list and why anyone can't check out AMD's list before they click at Newegg. Does every Intel motherboard support every dual core? Every quad core? Phenom is just a ridiculous marketing name. Saying a board supports Phenom does not mean it supports every Phenom any more than saying a board supports C2D means it supports the newest Wolfies or Penryns.
AMD has credibility loss in my eyes too, but not over the issue you're arguing.
That articles about the B2's, 9500's and 9600's. I haven't checked on Gigabyte's site to see if it supports a 9850, have you? The list I linked to at AMD only gives two boards that support a 9850. One from ASUS and one from MSI.
I'd go with AMD's word on this. When Gigabyte gets a board out for the 9850 (or a bios for a board that can handle the voltage issues), then I'm sure it will be added to AMD's list.
I know what processors from Intel work on which boards because the information is clearer from the manufacturers and the information that is from Intel down to lisencing etc.
Each manufacturer of Intel boards are more clued up what processor fits each board....
Due to the fact that Intel Processors are mainly with Intel Chipset there are more references to what chip goes with what chipset from 945 to x48 etc etc is compatible with.
Even if there are revisions of motherboards there are clear markings by little lables on what frequency it works with...
Gigabyte for example has different versions of its p35 board on taking 1333 and the other taking 1600 FSB's.
This is marked on the website with a yellow flash star and also on the motherboard box....
Also it clearly states that it takes what Intel chip it uses by using the same Intel processor case badges.
Asrock have the same, and so do Asus, MSI etc etc . It is more clear cut what chip fits the hole....
Ok, now your gonna go on about how much i love Intel... bla bla bla...
I build systems, day in day out... Building a Intel machine has always been that much easier...
Who set the standards for ATX and Micro ATX remember with Usb and usb2, PCI, AGP, PCI Express
AMD have not as it seems been to clear about what chip, appart from the AM2 series Athlon fits in motherboards with a socket 940....
We were promised orgionally AMD would produce a processor which fitted this socket...
There have been loads of confusion and is said that you will need socket AM2+ guaranteed for its new range of Phenom processors..in other words all AM2+ will work with new Phenoms..
B2 had its issues. B3 sorted them... Replace the end number with a 50 and then its now incompatible with some AM2+.
It also transpires that although limited support on the AM2 and the AM2+ will support only a few processors due to voltages, wattages and bus speeds etc etc....
Now im not saying that Intel has had some wattage issues but generally speaking Intel is easier to system build.... As it is more clear cut...
Now building a machine machine for home, is not like building 5 with issues like these and having to bloody patch all thats needed because someone got it wrong....
Motherboard manufacturers should state weather that they are Phenom ?x50 ready and what one from the outset.. And not just the bloody slowest ones...
Are we going to get this with the muted 3 core too.. Thats all gone quiet hasnt it too.
Yeah I rant on about socket 939 and how good it was because this socket innovated AMD.
We upgraded from single core to dual core very easy with nothing more than a bios update...
The performance increase was fantastic... untouchable at the time....
And due to the fact it was easy to deal with...you plugged it in, no sweat .. it worked.
Maybe it all fell into place better for AMD. They got lucky...
Socket 940. Although worked with new designed Athlons 64's, we were promised better things... A new chip which would be faster. It would slot straight in which was quoted by AMD... Why promise something this early when the chip has not even finished let alone finished and working...
Now I understand AMD had some technical issues and to be honest, I could give a stuff about these issues...
But I sold pcs with AMD 940 sockets on these basis. It was future proof.. Just like the 939 before it..
70-80 % of all AMD 939 installations were based on Nvidia Chipsets. A tried and trusted name then even if they did run a bit hot... The SLI Buzzword was hysterical at the time... oooh double the performance by adding another card...
Socket 940 went a bit pear shaped but I carried on... As it gave nothing more over 940 appart from the 1-2% speed increase of DDR2 ... Woop.
Intel on the otherhand although business practices have been out of hand some times, their socket / processor integration have been some what easier.. Prescott chips... Fitted Prescott motherboards... etc etc with a Prescott Compatible Badge and all Prescotts ran the same if a little bit hot...
They never promised that the socket in its current form would support the next, and then the next generation of processors after that....
If AMD got their platform right then respect to AMD... But they haven't.... To move forward they need to build a platform....
back to the old standards if you like... making changes in the little square chip to accomodate speed increase and not in the motherboard then put a big shiny AMD heatsink on top to make you feel the purchase was worth while..
Nvidia which has had more chipsets sold with AMD processors have almost given up a couple of generations with their latest chipsets due to AMD changing the ball park. I dont see many 6 series and 7 series Nvidia AMD chipset mentioned on these boards, only Intel 6 series and 7 series at a push...
Even before AMD bought ATI.. The had a AMD chipset which was crap to say the least... This was one of AMD's big mistake.. The orgionally couldnt make a decent chipset and relied on Nvidia and Via and obscure ATI chipsets that didnt sell many....
When they bought ATI, they left them alone for a while and didnt seem to innovate the chipset untill later on...
Now the new AMD chipset is excellent...its a shame it took this long
Maybe the market just wasnt there...
I am sure system builders will agree with me, Intel did this integration bit just that much better regardless how good the chip is... That just came a bit later on with Core 2 Duo....
Message edited by Hellboy on 04-15-2008 at 09:10:24 AM
"i have received the new product offering from advanced micro devices" would have been better. avoid such controversial titles such as "amd" and "phenom"
Well my 6400 stopped running smooth and started locking up. So I have said to hell with it and re-installed vista, and which really sucks cuz I have to reload all my files back in to the system. It seems to be running smooth and not locking up with the 6400+ back in but I have not put any thing back into it yet except for AVG and downloading the vista update now. I am gonna try to put the quad back in and see what happens now that I have this running smooth and its not locking up.
Well my 6400 stopped running smooth and started locking up. So I have said to hell with it and re-installed vista, and which really sucks cuz I have to reload all my files back in to the system. It seems to be running smooth and not locking up with the 6400+ back in but I have not put any thing back into it yet except for AVG and downloading the vista update now. I am gonna try to put the quad back in and see what happens now that I have this running smooth and its not locking up.
One suggestion I like to make is this. When you have a PC never ever make the whole drive the Windows drive. I know Vista is very virus proof for the time being (I know as I went antivirus software free for 6 months and never got anything), thats because the Kernal is locked and MS wont let anyone have it.
But in cases like this you should have a 40-50GB partition for Windows and the rest for games, files and stuff. This works great on RAID0's. I have used it when I wanted to reinstall XP to get a fresh start and all my files and games are still there and work.
But good luck on your endeavor. It almost seems like your mobo is rejecting the 9850BE. Maybe a new mobo is in order, you do have a good excuse.
Message edited by jimmysmitty on 04-15-2008 at 06:36:29 AM
yipsl- any particular reason why you feel like you can call MJ or anyone else here in these forums an "idiot"?
There is a difference between calling someone and idiot and saying "don't be an idiot." He kept insisting that his board should work with a 9850 after it was pointed out it was not supported.
Why is he getting a pass on ignoring the fact that his board does not support the 9850? Perhaps because it adds to the FUD in the Intel vs. AMD debate?
He keeps saying his board supports 125 watt AMD processors when it only supports the X2. If he keeps insisting he's right and the board manufacturer is wrong, then I can't see how he's contributing to any discussion in this thread.
I agree with all the criticisms of AMD vis a vis Phenom, but not criticisms of AMD because board manufacturer's do not have a bios for a board that supports any particular CPU someone wants to put in the socket. AMD said that Phenom would be backwards compatible with AM2 with a bios upgrade, and it was (considering Phenom at the time was only B2). They did not say that B3 Phenom's are backwards compatible with AM2. In fact, it doesn't work on all AM2+ boards.
Why people can separate Intel's C2D lineup by generation but still insist that Phenom must work in all AM2 boards or AMD is a failure, lying, whatever, is not rational. Phenom is just a generic marketing term for a generation of processors. People who build their systems need to pay attention to what particular Phenom or C2D CPU's work in what particular motherboard, and it's a no go to simply complain that something isn't working right when it's not supported.
So maybe it's not idiocy, but perhaps you can tell me what that kind of attitude is? Who am I? Just a home builder who's been building PC's since 1992 and who's made his share of mistakes such that he learned to actually read the documentation available for each motherboard he purchases, such that he hasn't tried to install the wrong CPU in a motherboard simply because one aspect of that CPU (i.e. wattage) on paper equals an aspect of an older CPU supported by that board.
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Phenom 8750 GA-MA78GM-SH2 2 gigs Kingston DDR2 800 MSI 3870x2 850/901 100 gig Maxtor SATA 2x 160 gig WD SATA 400 gig Seagate IDE Memorex DVD R/RW Antec Neo 650 PSU Antec Nine Hundred case.
Well my 6400 stopped running smooth and started locking up. So I have said to hell with it and re-installed vista, and which really sucks cuz I have to reload all my files back in to the system. It seems to be running smooth and not locking up with the 6400+ back in but I have not put any thing back into it yet except for AVG and downloading the vista update now. I am gonna try to put the quad back in and see what happens now that I have this running smooth and its not locking up.
No matter what you try.......
You will still experience problems...
Even if it does boot you will experience random lockups, unstability etc due to bus speed and wattage incomaptibilities...
You motherboard will not support the 9850BE...
You will need a new AMD 790FX chipset to make it work as it should preferable Gigabyte as they are the better board at the moment.......
yipsl, The reason the C2D can be seperate is cuz Intel never promises backwards compatability where as AMD does. AMD touted AM2 Phenom compatability but Intel never stated that C2D would work on all LGA775 boards.
Thats the difference between what AMD says and what Intel says. Intel states specific chipsets will have offical support for the chips but never the socket type as a whole where as AMD stated AM2 will support Phenom.
"So maybe it's not idiocy, but perhaps you can tell me what that kind of attitude is? Who am I? Just a home builder who's been building PC's since 1992 and who's made his share of mistakes such that he learned to actually read the documentation available for each motherboard he purchases, such that he hasn't tried to install the wrong CPU in a motherboard simply because one aspect of that CPU (i.e. wattage) on paper equals an aspect of an older CPU supported by that board."
Give it up on the socket 939. You and TC. I bet there are still people upset that their socket A processors don't have new CPU's. I know there are people who wish AGP had not died, and that there was a low end Pentium C2D for their socket 478. I have a socket T that doesn't support C2D in a fourth PC, but am I kvetching? I did once, but I got over it. Intel does those voltage changes and we just have to get used to them.
The problem is, the move from Socket 939 to 940 offered nothing substantial except a small boast with DDR2 Memory. I'm still using a 939 setup and feel let down by AMD.
My Vista score is 5.9 for my 9500 on a MSI 790fx with 4 gigs of ram @1066.My system is solid as a rock ,so far AOD locks up when I try using it to oc the 9500.My hd is the slowest at 5.4
