System for editing HD in Adobe Premiere - Page 2 - General-Homebuilt

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whoops i meant m9600t series (not m9000t). here's the correct link:

http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/ [...] 00t_series

Reply to stereophonic77

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Stereophonic, I will be glad to make a Newegg Wishlist for you. I will post one in a little while. I want to answer some questions first.

That PCMag article is nonsense. A single 150GB drive is ridiculous, especially when its part of the "Ultimate CS4" machine.

Also, the i7 940 is not needed - go with the i7 920 for a lot less and Overclock it. It seems you aren't familiar with overclocking but there are very detailed step-by-step instructions on how to do it with the i7. You can easily push it from 2.66 to 3.4-3.6GHz. I have an older Q6600 quad-core CPU and I can push it from 2.4 to 3.0GHz without a problem. I can even push it up to 3.6GHz but, because its an older design, it runs too hot for my liking at that speed.

2) I looked at the HP and its a decent PC for the money. If you were to go this route, PLEASE follow my advice on what to upgrade directly from HP and what not to. For example, DO NOT upgrade the hard drive from them as it is a major Rip Off. If you got the HP, I would recommend NOT upgrading 1-Hard drives; 2-Ram; 3-CPU.

Thats just a quick summary; so, I'll come back with the Wishlist and price compare it to the HP(with upgrades to match the Wishlist).

Oh yeah, what is your budget?

PS -- Two main problems with a pre-built PC, such as Dell or HP, are the "Just-Enough-Power" Power Supplies and little to no room for expansion which is especially important for hard drives. Oh yeah, I almost forgot another very important problem - lack of sufficient airflow/cooling. Dell is notorious for this and I would expect HP not to be much better. The Power Supplies they use are designed for the exact setup when purchased which means upgrading the video card usually requires upgrading the Power Supply too. Or adding more Ram and another hard drive would require a new power supply.

Message edited by specialk90 on 05-18-2009 at 01:46:06 AM

Reply to specialk90

http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/ [...] r=13292528
$1216 plus some rebates.

It has 12GB of Ram so if you want only 6GB for now, reduce by $85.
I also included 2 74GB Raptors because they are on sale for a sweet $80 each and you can run them in Raid 0 for OS, Apps, Media Cache & Scratch Disk.

I didn't include large drives for storage because I don't know if you prefer WD, Seagate or another company and I don't know how much you need/want. If 500GB, then you could get 2 for $60 each(seagate 7200.12) and run them in Raid 1 or use one as an external drive for backup.

I also didn't include an OS as I don't know if you want Vista x64 or 7 x64(which is free for a year).

I forget - did you need a Blu Ray burner too? (add $200)

Also, what did you want to use for audio/sound card? I use M-Audio but their drivers are junk. Mackie makes an external device for aound $200(I think I mentioned it in this thread in addition to some others) And certainly avoid Creative.

If you don't need to record audio, then using the onboard might work fine. However, I know Premiere doesn't like onboard too much.

With the HP, you won't be able to overclock. To get a very similar setup, it would cost roughly $1500 but with slower Ram.

If you have a Microcenter nearby, you can get the i7 920 for $230(vs $290 at newegg).

Reply to specialk90

This is awesome! Thank you very much for taking the time to offer this guidance as I was feeling a little misdirected by the PCMag article. The recommendations look suited to my needs--and budget! I will go with your suggestions and dive into building my own system, as opposed to buying the prepackaged brand (considering your advice on the low power and no room for expansion). This seems like a good skill to learn anyhow.

$1216 works well for me as I was willing to spend more, probably maximum of ~$2000, if I thought it was necessary and the returns were worth the extra cost. Please let me know if this revises your wishlist. Otherwise, I think I'll probably save the money for a future Blu-Ray burner and/or other expansions. I'll just use the school's Blu Ray drive for now.

I'll look into overclocking the processor.

12 GB RAM was exactly what I was looking to get so the wishlist is good on that.

I think I'll want a lot of storage for the HD files for this film and future ones. So your advice on two 500GB drives sounds good. I'll read back through the thread on the RAID discussion.

I think I'll go with the 7 x64 as I think you mentioned earlier that you have had no problems with it.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/w [...] nload.aspx

As for sound, I'll want decent sound to hear what the film will sound like, so I'll read back through the thread on your recommendations.

Much sincere appreciation to you from this hardware greenhorn as I feel more confident about moving forward and believe you've saved me a wad of money and confusion.

Reply to stereophonic77

I haven't had much experience with 7 aside from it being a VM in VMWare Workstation. I have been using Vista x64 for a few weeks and it has been great. 7 is a lot like Vista in regards to the interface and drivers. There is a blog about testing drivers in 7 and showing work arounds if there aren't 7 specific drivers.

I remember you stating that you are using Apple Pro Res. If you plan on doing many projects in this format, then would would be better off getting 1TB drives because that format is rather large. I just remembered something very important to you: the number of simultaneous streams your projects will use. Because Apple Pro Res is about 20MB/s or so, using multiple streams can bog the system down. Luckily, there are sites explaining how many streams a drive can handle.

You are very welcome. I am glad I could help.

Message quoted 1 times

Reply to specialk90

specialk90,

first off let me start by thanking you for all the help you have been providing.. Its people like you that make life so much better...

Now to my questions,

I am a part-time photographer and I may look into doing HD video of weddings and special events eventually. I have just built a studio and want to put a strong and dependable desktop in it for all my editing and etc. I have read and read and more confused now than ever on what to buy. I am not sure if I should get quad or i7 but am limited to around $700-$800 for now. If necessary I could maybe buy the basics and expand as I save more money. i would rather do that than get something that would be disappointing. I do use dual monitors for editing and have to keep them calibrated at all times (colors have to be exact).

I am not a gamer but have kids that may tinker but nothing serious. More important, I use photoshop CS4 and would definitely consider Premier CS4 when I go the video route so future expandability is a thought. For fun I do a ton of uploading, downloading, file compressing and extracting...

question 2- with photography I shoot raw files and they are around 15MB each. I shot over 20,000 last year and this year is going to far exceed that number and I keep every file indefinitely for future sale and etc. That said I generate large volume of data and see no end in site. What are some reasonable long term backup options? Currently I am using several external HD's and keep them in different locations and keep them synched via software (super flexible file synchronizer) plus I have 3meg upload so i can send files rather quickly. So if i add video to my collection I have no idea where i can store all of it..

Would it be possible for you to build me a wishlist?...

Meantime i am going to try and figure out what raid is and if/how it could help me. Maybe you could give me some suggestions on getting what I need for that as well...

Once more thank you so much in advance for all your time and dedication to helping us....

Jay

Message edited by fliggyg on 05-21-2009 at 07:46:17 AM

Reply to fliggyg

Oh yeah, if my budget is too ridiculous then still build the list and maybe the parts will still be available when i save the money..

Reply to fliggyg

specialk90 wrote :

I haven't had much experience with 7 aside from it being a VM in VMWare Workstation. I have been using Vista x64 for a few weeks and it has been great. 7 is a lot like Vista in regards to the interface and drivers. There is a blog about testing drivers in 7 and showing work arounds if there aren't 7 specific drivers.

I remember you stating that you are using Apple Pro Res. If you plan on doing many projects in this format, then would would be better off getting 1TB drives because that format is rather large. I just remembered something very important to you: the number of simultaneous streams your projects will use. Because Apple Pro Res is about 20MB/s or so, using multiple streams can bog the system down. Luckily, there are sites explaining how many streams a drive can handle.

You are very welcome. I am glad I could help.

Hi Specialk90,

I just ordered my pc and I chose the two barracudas. I was thinking in getting a small Raptor for my OS, do you think it's worth it? Or could one of the Barracudas work fine with the OS? I heard the Raptors are really fast, don't know if they're much faster though, could you help me?

Thanks!

David

Reply to DavidEvans

specialk90 wrote :

nimdivino,

1) Your board does have the ICH10R chipset which means it can do Matrix Raid. For the hard drives, 500GB drives cost only $60 on Newegg so I wouldn't get a 250GB drive.

2) an UPS is Uninterruptible Power Supply. Its generally a combination of a Surge Protector plus a Battery Backup. When there are drops in voltage, this can cause damage to the PC Power supply but a UPS will kick in and provide a constant flow of power. In addition, when power completely goes out, the UPS kicks in and provides power so your PC doesn't get turned off. They also come with software and a USB cable so if power is out for an extended period of time and you aren't around to turn your PC off, the software will shut your PC off for you. I have found that voltage drops occur a few times a month(at least while I'm using my PC). There is a 865w UPS at Best Buy for $160-170 which would allow your PC to run on battery for at least an hour. There is one a bit less powerful for $110-120 that would work just fine. I can't tell you how many times my UPS has paid for itself.

3) I can't believe the 8800GT prices are so high when the 9800GT and GTS 250 are newer versions using the exact same GPU and the GTS 250 sells for $130.
In AE, you go into the edit Preferences. I can't recall exactly where it is but you shouldn't set more than 80% of the V-Ram(so about 700MB).
Rendering in AE uses the CPU but while working on a comp, AE can use the V-Ram to store data. If you google how AE uses Video Ram, you can get a much better explanation.

4) For Wedding DVDs, using an HDTV is perfectly fine and recommended because your customers will be viewing the DVDs on a TV. For Color Correction, there is some great info on Lynda.com which is where I have learned just about everything so far. Actually, VideoCoPilot has some great Plug-ins for AE for really low prices and the owner is an AE guru/legend. They have about 90 free tutorials for free currently. Also, CreativeCow.com has some great tutorials for Premiere, AE and many other topics.

4b) GOOD LUCK!!! on your possible job. Since you have had a 2nd interview, that should mean they really like you.

5) Yes, that Blackmagic HDMI capture card is great. I couldn't remember if it was AJA or Blackmagic that I had seen at B&HPhoto for around $350. As far as I know, it would mainly benefit if you were capturing while recording video so it bypasses the HDV compression resulting in higher quality and far greater storage size.

5b) Let me know what you learn about it because I am still in the process of deciding on the Z5, Z7 or EX1 and both "Z" models have HDMI output and cost much less than the EX1. The good and bad of it though is I won't be paying for it but I must convince my friend/Boss to fork over the money. He owns 2 companies dealing with advertising, marketing and political consulting and they outsourced their video needs but want to add video services(ie TV commercials) and this is where I step in. Trying to explain why he should spend $10k on an EX1 plus extras is not fun.

I have considered doing Wedding cinematography but I don't have the money for the gear. I don't think I have the stomach to put up with brides and all that either. Maybe after I get my feet wet in tv commercials and money saved up, I can venture into it.

Btw, very nice camera.

Thanks for your appreciation and kind words.

PS What do you mean by WYSIWYG in After Effects? I know how OpenGL being activated can sometimes alter what you see while working(but it doesn't alter the output and I do know what the letters stand for).

Hey specialk90:
I'm sorry for not responding right away. I had a lot of bumps during my i7 920 build. I bought 2 mobos, 2 PSUs, 2 memories. BUT FINALLY, I'm DONE. System is up and running and got to install everything. Well, not everything, I might take the intensity pro out for now. =(

1. I really might need to go array (RAID 0) because intensity pro recommends an array. Actually, it requires atleast 8 HARD DRIVES in one array. That is kinda crazy so I will call black-magic tomorrow to get proper info. If they do require 8 hard-drives in an array, that will bring my cost-up quite a lot so I may hold on editing uncompressed HD and stick with HDV.

2. Okay, so my guess about UPS is right regarding a battery back-up for PCs. Our IT guy from my previous work really stressed the importance of a UPS for our servers, but for 6years, we still didn't have it. hahaha. I know how important it is though, so I'm really considering one right now especially that I'll be doing an array.

3. wow, $130 is a lot better price, but you said I'm set-up for the CUDA support so that's all good and dandy. Thank you for the info regarding using 80% of V-RAM for AE.

4. I found a Vizio 22inch for $250 at costco (hopefully my friend can get it for less since he works for costco). It supports 1080p and 22 inch is small enough to fit in my table.

Andrew Kramer of VideoCoPilot is a genius and I agree, he is also a legend. When I get some extra cash, I want to buy some of his products and really try to understand those advanced skills from his tutorials. I have most of his free plug-ins, I really like his shadow plug-in, that saved me a lot of time.

Thanks for the good luck. Unfortunately they emailed me and said that they're not going with me because I lack experience in packaging. I think that's messed-up because they knew I didn't have experience in packaging on the 1st interview, why the heck did they call me for 2nd? ack. Oh well.. But I really wanted that job though.

Like I said earlier, I bought the blackmagic intensity pro. I got it for $199 plus tax. You are correct, it used to be $350, so if you were thinking of getting it, now's a great time. =)

Two things that is good with this card. Capture uncompressed HD, and preview output to an HD TV via HDMI. However, like what I've mentioned, uncompressed HD uses a lot of resources, hard drive space and performance. Here's a link for storage and data rates for uncompressed video if you are interested.

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/s [...] ?techID=30

Intensity pro currently can capture 8 bit 1920 x 1080. So that means for 29.97 fps, its a whopping 417GB per hour. YIKES. 1.5 TB will only hold about 3 hours of video. I don't know if my wallet is ready for this yet. haha.

I read somewhere however that intensity pro can work hand-in-hand with cineform's neoscene. You basically captures uncompressed HD using intensity to cineform AVI which is manageable size but retain its very high quality footage. Sounds very interesting but cineform is $129.

The WYSIWYG for after effects is for intensity pro. You can output your previews from after effects monitor to your HD TV via HDMI. PLUS, you can also do it from photoshop.

Good luck convincing your boss about the EX1. hahaha. I've held an EX1 before and man that thing is heavy but quality of the footage was jaw dropping.

I haven't shot HD in my V1U yet so I'm very anxious to see how it looks.

niM

Message edited by nimdivino on 05-22-2009 at 11:44:30 AM

Reply to nimdivino

Hi specialk90,

Let me also start by thanking you for all the help you have been providing. I’m a Portuguese video enthusiast since the linear editing times. I’ve been reading this forum from some days with special interest, cause I want to build a new HD workstation.
My video productions are with AVCHD material and Adobe CS4 Master Collection. My old workstation – good enough for DV and HDV material – can’t now efficiently handle the original footage and editing work.
So, I plan to build a totally new workstation, probably with the following components:

– Board: ASUS P6T Deluxe V2
– CPU: Core i7 975 (3,33 Ghz) Extreme
– RAM: triple channel 12Gb 2000Mhz OCZ Blade series
– VGA: Nvidia Quadro CX 1,5Gb DDR3
– Storage: 4 x Seagate Barracuda ES.2 500Gb 7200 3Gb/s
– Optical: Plextor BD-R/RE reader/writer
– Power supply: Corsair HX1000
– Case: Antec Twelve Hundred
– OS: Windows Vista Ultimate 64bits

What do you think about? Any suggestion? Any changes needed/recommended? Any money spent for nothing?
Another question: how do I configure the 4 Barracuda ES.2? My idea is 2-500Gb drives splited into a Raid 1 array for the OS+Apps and a Raid 0 array for page file and media cache and the other 2-500Gb drives in a Raid 1 array to store the original footage. I never have more than 2 hours of video to edit, so I don’t need lots of space for the original footage.
What do you think? Is it better 2 1Tb disks instead of the 4 500Gb? Do I need the RAID arrays? These are the points where I have more doubts.
One final question: what monitor(s) do you recommend? I’m thinking of a computer monitor but also of a digital video monitor where I can view full screen results while editing. Is it possible with Nvidia Quadro CX?
I will appreciate your opinion and recommendations.

Thanks a ton!

Reply to Xalmas

Xalmas, to begin, the motherboard's max Ram speed with all 6 slots full is 1333MHz so you can save a lot of money.

Corsair HX1000 - overkill for you needs. 600w should be plenty for now and 750w would provide enough room for the future.

i7 965/975 Extreme - no need at all. The i7 920 can be overclocked to 3.4GHz no problem - just get a good Heatsink/Fan such as Zalman 9500 or Xigmatek Dark Knight.

Quadro CX - unless you do 3D work for Hollywood(Feature Films), there is no need for this big boy. The time savings you get with the H.264 plug-in ONLY apply to one variation of that format/codec. So, you cannot use the plug-in for Blu Ray video. If you need HD-SDI, look at the CX's brother the FX4800. These two cards are almost identical except the CX includes the plug-in for Adobe users.

The ES.2 are great drives but cost quite a bit. The 74GB Raptor is currently selling for $80-100 each and the ES.2 500GB is around $100. The OS+Apps, page file, Media Cache and Scratch Disk don't need that much space. The 2 Raptors would be much quicker. The only drawback would be that you couldn't use Raid 1 and Raid 0 due to the lack of space so you would have to use Raid 0.

Monitors: I like Dell's Ultrasharp series due to the best performance per dollar and best gamut performance for the money.
Digital Video monitor - what exactly due you mean? an HDTV connected via HDMI or a Broadcast Monitor($1000+).

If just an HDTV, any $80+ video card will display the video full screen. However, if you need accurate color, you will need to spend the money and get a broadcast monitor.

Reply to specialk90

Thanks specialk90 for the effort you put into this forum ...
Any tips on Broadcast monitor - for editing/color correction etc

Also any vendor you suggest - who would assemble the PC with the Hardware configurations (especially the Hard drive part) you suggested ....

Reply to Newbee5

specialk90,

thanks for all your hard work... i know you have seen a bunch of these but i would really like your opinion. Im all around media guy for a retail company.. i do web design, graphic & flash design, video editing, and i have been learning AE and will be making custom commercials on a monthly basis. I wanted to buy my components locally instead of from new egg:

Asus Rampage II Gene Core i7 Socket 1366 Motherboard $259.99
6GB (3X2GB) / DDR3 /1600MHz / DOMINATOR / CORSAIR 2 x @ $154.99 = $309.98
Intel® Core™ i7 920 Box Processor LGA1366 BX80601920 $330.00
5781502 CM V8 Universal Fan i7 $69.99
Antec Twelve Hundred ATX Tower Case $179.99
Antec TruePower TP750 750w ATX Continuous Power Power Supply $159.99
SAMSUNG SPINPOINT F1 1TB SERIAL ATA/300 32MB BUFFER HARD DRIVE - HD103UJ 2 X @ $89.99 = $179.98
WESTERN DIGITAL VELOCIRAPTOR 150GB SERIAL ATA/300 10,000 RPM 16MB BUFFER HARD DRIVE - $179.99
BFG GTS 250 1GB PCI-Express Video Card $149.99
LGBL-RY-RE-WR GBW-H20L INTERNAL SUPER MULTI BLUE BLU-RAY DISC DRIVE $249.99
LG 22X INT SATA DUAL LAYER DRIVE WITH LIGHTSCRIBE TECHNOLOGY $39.99
subtotal: $2,109.88

Was gonna run the OS & Apps on the VELO and run raid1 w/ 3 partition on the 2 Samsung 1 TB drives. I also wanted a Blu-Ray burner. Im ok with the price.

I dont know much about overclocking, is it easy to do?
Is the video card satisfactory ( i used specs from your new egg build)?
Should i upgrade to the 940 for $200 more?

Reply to atomic-dog

Great thread - so much info! Thank you all - honorable mention to specialk90 of course!

I was wondering, I think specialk90 said somewhere that CS4 could NOT be installed on flash drives. Did I read that correctly? I was hoping to build sometime this summer, and really want the OS and the apps to be as fast as possible, which I thought meant flash drive.

But I don't care much about any other apps than Production Premium CS4.

Can anyone advise? Are there no workarounds? Seems a shame to lose the main benefit of flash drives if a major app like CS4 can't use it.

Reply to canoli

Great thread - so much info! Thank you all - honorable mention to specialk90 of course!

I was wondering, I think specialk90 said somewhere that CS4 could NOT be installed on flash drives. Did I read that correctly? I was hoping to build sometime this summer, and really want the OS and the apps to be as fast as possible, which I thought meant flash drive.

But I don't care much about any other apps than Production Premium CS4.

Can anyone advise? Are there no workarounds? Seems a shame to lose the main benefit of flash drives if a major app like CS4 can't use it.

Reply to canoli

Great thread - so much info! Thank you all - honorable mention to specialk90 of course!

I was wondering, I think specialk90 said somewhere that CS4 could NOT be installed on flash drives. Did I read that correctly? I was hoping to build sometime this summer, and really want the OS and the apps to be as fast as possible, which I thought meant flash drive.

But I don't care much about any other apps than Production Premium CS4.

Can anyone advise? Are there no workarounds? Seems a shame to lose the main benefit of flash drives if a major app like CS4 can't use it.

Reply to canoli

specialk90,
I've been following this thread for some time now and have learned alot. Your knowledge and willingness to share it with others is awesome!

I am building a new PC which I will be using at home for DV Editing and photo dabbling with Photoshop. I bought the following components 3 weeks ago from Newegg which include:
ASUS: P5Q Deluxe Motherboard
Intel Q9550 CPU
Xigmatek Dark Knight Heatsink
4GB 2x2 Crucial 1067 Memory
(2) WD VelociRapter 300GB SATA 2 HDD
(2) LG DVD Burners
ABIT H233 23" Widescreen Monitor
FX1700 Video Card

My understanding is I will need 2 additional HDD's to complete a ful RAID config ie (RAID 0 - 2 HDD's for OS, page files and media cache; RAID 1 - 2 HDD's for storage).

I have 2 Western Digital 120GB HDD's from an old computer that I could use. They are IDE drives and 7200rpm.

I was not familiar with RAID till I read your posts and now have some questions:
ASUS has something called Drive Expert which allows you to configure 2 of their SATA ports for Super Speed or EZ Backup (pseudo RAID I suppose).

1) Should I use the 2 special SATA ports to configure ASUS' version of RAID for my system or should I use 'Intel RAID' which it appears the ASUS board supports on the other 6 SATA ports?

2) Do I need a RAID PCI card to configure Intel RAID or can I just plug them into one of the 6 SATA ports and change my BIOS settings to RAID? Are there big advantages to a hardware card or do I not need this much sophistication?

3) Finally, will it hurt my system performance to use my older 2 WD 120GB IDE drives for the OS etc in RAID 0 or should I buy new SATA drives?

Thanks,

Reply to motocell

specialk90 wrote :

Whitewhale, if you have the 8800GTS 640, you should soft-mod it. Its VERY easy according to everything I've read, and you can just as easily go back to the gaming driver. A quick summary of how its done: 1) using RivaTuner, check a box that switches the card to Quadro; 2) uninstall regular driver 3) reboot 4) install workstation driver 5) reboot.

What I would do is download a complex 3D model for Blender and test out the GTS with regular driver and then soft-mod it and test again. Nvidia was losing a ton of money from people soft-modding so they started laser cutting their chips starting with the 8800GT, which is, of course, the way things always work for me - I just miss out on the good stuff.

For ECC, take another read of that article because I don't think it supports ECC. i7 CPUs cannot support ECC as far as I know. What I think they were talking about is the fact that Intel hasn't released any single-CPU Xeon Nehalem WS motherboards and processors so Supremicro had to use a X58 + i7 system.

For rendering, do you know how long it takes using the i7 or similar quad-core? The i7 overclocked to 3.4GHz shouldn't take more than overnight to render. I have been using an older Q6600 OC'd to 3.0GHz(which is slower than i7 @ 2.66GHz) and have had no problems with 12-14hr render/encode jobs.

For Scratch disk and drive setup: what about getting some Raptors and/or Velociraptors? To be honest, if you are worried about bit errors, then SAS drives are what you need as they have a far lower error rate than Sata. You can get a good 4port SAS hardware Raid controller for $250 US and use it just for important data & rendering. With 4 ports, I would say to use either A) 2 74GB 10k or 15k rpm SAS drives in Raid 0 for scratch disk and 2 1TB+ drives in Raid 1 for storage or B) 4 1TB SAS drives in Raid 10 for scratch disk and storage. For SAS drives, you can't beat Seagate's 10k.7 & 15k.6 models or even their Savvio 10k.3 or Savvio 15k.1 which are 2.5" drives. However, the Savvio drives are more expensive due to being 2.5". For 7200rpm SAS, Seagate's ES.2 and soon to be released Constellation drives are great.

If you aren't that worried about bit error, then maybe try this:
A) 2 Raptors in Raid 0 for OS, Apps, page file & scratch disk and 2 drives in Raid 1 for storage or 4 in Raid 10 for faster speeds and more redundancy/data protection.
B) 2 drives in Raid 0 and Raid 1 like I talked about earlier and a single Raptor for scratch & page file.

Hi Specialk, I need your help.

I'm going to be editing HD videos in CS4 Premeire and have bought all the components based on research and posts on this forum.

I have already put my system together... except for the hard drives. I need your advice on hard drives and raid setup.

So far, I have assembled:
Case: CM 922 HAF
PSU: Antec Earthwatts 750W
MB: ASUS P6T
CPU: i7 core 920
RAM: OCZ 12 gb 1600
GPU: GTX 260
OS: Win 7 64bit RC

Just waiting for the hard drives. I would like both a Raid 0 and Raid 1 setup. I have already ordered 2 WD 1TB Raid class hd's for Raid 0.

Could you please advice on how to setup this Raid 0 and how to do the partitions for OS+Apps, Pagefiles, Media cache etc. and how much space for each? Where the source files should go etc.?

I looked at the Raptors but have read some reviews where people have experienced Raid issues with them because of some built in feature with causes some issues after certain number of hours of continuous use.

I planning to order either 2 more WD 1TB Caviar Blk, or 2 Seagate 1.5TB Barracuda for Raid 1. I'm planning to just use the DriveXpert Sata ports on my MB for this Raid 1. Will that be fine?

My first concern is the Performance with CS4, and then Redundancy. Please let me know what other options I have with hard drives and Raid setups.

Thanks a lot, truly appreciate it.

Reply to awsomisq

OK, here's an aspect I haven't seen addressed clearly. Buidling edit pc for CS4 right now, and can't get a handle on this.

Assume the recommended setup (thnx to specialk) :

2 HDDs in Matrix Raid... C: Raid 1 for OS & Apps. D: & E: Raid 0 for Page and Media cache.
+
2 HDDs in Raid 1 for storage... F: Original Vid. G: Edited Vid.

Is there an issue with the Orginal Vid and Edited Vid being on the same HDDs? Will the heads ever be accessing Original Vid while writing Edited Vid at the same time in a normal workflow?

Also, will the Original Vid files being on the Raid 1 storage drive slow down the workflow in that Adobe is accessing those files during the process (noob question, I know)?

Just curious if:
1) two separate single (non-RAID) HDDs, one for Original, another for Edited Vid, would actually be better.*
OR
2) just RAID 0 the Original Vid and Editd Vid HDDs would perform better.*

*These alternatives assume backup to external HDD of course.

Reply to 5 OClock Charlie

Dear Mr Specialk90!

I've recently bought and built the following system.
I have considered purchasing an extra HDD or two to optimise.

Until now I have never setup redundancy. Fortunately in all my years of computing I have never had a drive fail. (thank you WD!)
As I am doing more CS4 work professionally, I figure it’s nearing time I should setup RAID.

-i7 920
-Asus P6T deluxe v2
-12GB corsair RAM
-cd/dvd
-2 x Leadtek GTX 260 extreme + SLI
-1 x WD1500HLFS 150G VelociRaptor (for OS)
-2 x WD1001FALS 1TB Caviar Black
All sitting comfortably inside a beautiful Lian-li V1010B

Without partitioning drives,(my understanding is to keep seperate functions on seperate physical drives) what would you advise as the best HDD setup? Keeping in mind I can purchase additional, similar HDD’s.

I'm considering the following config:.
(Purchase) 300GB Raptor for OS
150GB raptor for scratch
2 x 1TB WD in RAID1 for AV storage.
(Purchase) 1 x 1TB WD for ..??

Your advice?

Many thanks in advance.

(ps My first post. My apologies if it's 'e-rude' to sweep in on a thread like this)

Reply to Antsem

specialk90 wrote :

About emulating Quadro: the 8800GTS 640MB is the last card that can be "Soft-Modded" to a Quadro (FX 4600). Stupid Nvidia realized they were losing a lot of money to "Soft-Modding" so they started laser cutting the chips beginning with the 8800GT(G92), which is what I have

Within Adobe's programs, only After Effects can benefit from Quadro/FirePro Workstation cards with complex 3D work. With the new OpenGL accelerated features in Premiere Pro, After Effects and Photoshop, a Nvidia 9800GT will run them just fine.

Has anyone tried the softmod with After Effects? Does it actually emulate a Quadro FX 4600 in After Effects? If so, still, what would perform better in After Effects?

8800gts 640mb softmod to Quadro FX 4600 vs. Radeon HD 4870

Reply to bostonvideo

This is a very interesting thread!

I just built the following system and some feedback (esp for the harddrives) would be great.

i920 quad
12 GB Ram
Geforce 295, 2GB Ram (for OpenGL, Cuda support and some gaming)
1TB Samsung Spinpoint - OS harddrive
4x1TB Samsung Spinpoint Raid 0.

OS:
Windows 7, 64bit.

BACKUP
External hdd for backup. Currently its only 1 TB but but I will expand as needed. I plan on doing weekly backups (and backups after important projects).

I plan on using the computer for:
- Video editing - most important
- lightroom, photoshop editing
- sound editing
- 3d graphics
- gaming and internet, storing movies

Data
From reading it sounds like I should put the video cache on the OS harddrive.
On the Raid I plan to put:
- all photos
- all videos
- the games

I'm not that worried about hdd 0 failing with os. I can do a backup fairly easy on that one. Disk 1-4 worries me though, since they are Raid 0. Do you think the raid 0 effect will be noticeable while working or is it overkill?
What other alternatives would make sense? I guess 0+1 could be worth considering with the 4 hdds.

Thanks for your help!
/Andreas

Reply to andreasoberg

hello special K90,
seems like you really know this stuff. I am having some issues editing avchd on premiere pro. admittedly, my system is severely underpowered, but I've been able to get through the very simple work I have to do, and I'm not a pro editor, just a pro musician and music editor who needs to occasionally do simple cuts on concert footage.
here's my system: macbook pro 2.4ghz intel core duo, G-raid2 1 terabyte drive, premiere pro cs4.1
here's my problem: after figuring out all kinds of frame rate weirdness*, everything is working fairly well - I can playback my clips without stuttering, and simple edits work fine also. predictably, the stuttering occurs when a clip has a lot of motion or lighting changes. Now, they play fine off of my internal system drive (it's a laptop), but when I try to play them from the raid, they stutter and eventually stop. I've talked to G-raid, canon, and premiere and as you might have guessed nobody has an answer, but it sounds to me like the issue is not really throughput from the raid, but something else.
here's my question: is there anything that I can do to minimize the problem without having to keep all the clips on my internal drive, such as storing certain parts of things on various drives? I could put the media cache on the internal and keep the clips on the raid, or use a third drive if necessary.
thanks
gh

*the canon avchd cams don't really shoot in any other frame rate than 60i, their 24p and 30p settings are a simulation

Reply to funkygh

specialk90 wrote :

Hi there.

As someone who uses Premiere Pro & After Effects CS4, I can provide you with what works best. I will need to know some things first.

1) What video format does your camera use? If AVCHD, you will need the i7. I have a Q6600 overclocked to 3.0GHz and it cannot handle AVCHD very well. The i7 920 at its stock 2.66GHz is about 15% faster than my Q6600 at 3.0GHz.

2) Do you use Premiere Pro CS4 or an earlier version? If CS4, you want 12GB of Ram. Premiere CS4 is now able to use more than 4GB of ram when run on Vista x64. A great article over at DigitalContentProducer.com tests the performance of Premiere with 4GB vs 8GB+ and Premiere's performance was 50-600% faster with 8GB+.

3) What is your budget?

RAID: this is another great way of improving performance and another great reason for using Intel. Premiere has a "media cache" where it stores video and audio from projects. While editing in Premiere, you want to see how your video looks and you hit play. Premiere renders the video and stores it in the media cache. Where the media cache is located is very important to the performance and speed of that rendering. Because Premiere must read the original video and then render it, you want to use 2 separate drives, 1 for the source and 1 for the render/media cache. This is where Raid comes into play. I am going to give a brief overview of what I recommend and why it helps performance.
1) Using 4 drives, lets say 2-250GB drives and 2-1TB drives. The 2-250GB drives split into 2 different Raid arrays: a Raid 1 array for the OS+Apps and a Raid 0 array for page file and media cache. Raid 1 mirrors the data across 2 drives; so, if one drive dies, the other drive still has the data and you lose no data and no downtime resintalling/restoring the OS & Apps. Raid 0 "stripes" data across the 2 drives; thus, about doubling the read/write speed. However, if one drive dies, all the data is gone. The page file & media cache are not important data. In fact, the media cache should be deleted every 2-3 months. Creating 2 different Raid arrays can only be done on Intel motherboards; this is why I said to use Intel.
2) The 2-1TB drives will be used for storage and run in a Raid 1 array to protect your data. The original footage will be stored here. Also, Raid 1 provides slightly better performance when data is being read. Its a process called "Split Seeks" where the OS is able to read from both drives at the same time. Its rather technical, but it does help.

If you don't mind the risk and want better speed with booting up and opening programs, you can just use Raid 0 for the OS, Apps, page file and media cache. If you do this, you will definitely need to create a separate partition for the OS+Apps as C and a D partition for page file and an E partition for media cache. I can help you with the exact sizes of those partitions once we know the amount of ram and which Raid 0 or 1 for the OS+Apps.

I can also provide you with step-by-step instructions for setting up Raid on an Intel board as I have done so for several others.

You don't want onboard video for editing HD video within Premiere. Preferably, an Nvidia video card, such as the GTS 250. When applying Effects, some can use the video card(which must have OpenGL 2.0 support) to render these effects in real-time. More power equals less time rendering. And when you want to see what different effects look like, quicker rendering times help a lot. I like the GTS 250 because it it a dual slot and heat is blown out of the case and it is only $120-30. And the possible CUDA support in future Adobe releases is 99.9% guaranteed because CS4 already supports it but only with Nvidia's $1500 CX Quadro video card.

Back to hard drives: you do not need or want Raid 0 for video storage. The fastest AVCHD can go is a whopping 3 MB per second, which equates to 24megabit. Even Panasonic's $10,000+ cameras only go up to 12.5 MB/s(100 megabit).

I hope I haven't confused you. I have a tendency to do that, which is why I would not be a great teacher.

Hi - so, I'm considering either buying an HP slim desktop with a Q8200 processor or building an i7 system. My cost calculation difference between the two system is around $400-500....would you recommend this for mostly AE and Premiere CS4 programs? I'm going to get the same graphics card (prob the 9800 GT)....

I would really appreciate your thoughts.

Reply to rah7puva

specialk90 wrote :

Hi there.

As someone who uses Premiere Pro & After Effects CS4, I can provide you with what works best. I will need to know some things first.

1) What video format does your camera use? If AVCHD, you will need the i7. I have a Q6600 overclocked to 3.0GHz and it cannot handle AVCHD very well. The i7 920 at its stock 2.66GHz is about 15% faster than my Q6600 at 3.0GHz.

2) Do you use Premiere Pro CS4 or an earlier version? If CS4, you want 12GB of Ram. Premiere CS4 is now able to use more than 4GB of ram when run on Vista x64. A great article over at DigitalContentProducer.com tests the performance of Premiere with 4GB vs 8GB+ and Premiere's performance was 50-600% faster with 8GB+.

3) What is your budget?

RAID: this is another great way of improving performance and another great reason for using Intel. Premiere has a "media cache" where it stores video and audio from projects. While editing in Premiere, you want to see how your video looks and you hit play. Premiere renders the video and stores it in the media cache. Where the media cache is located is very important to the performance and speed of that rendering. Because Premiere must read the original video and then render it, you want to use 2 separate drives, 1 for the source and 1 for the render/media cache. This is where Raid comes into play. I am going to give a brief overview of what I recommend and why it helps performance.
1) Using 4 drives, lets say 2-250GB drives and 2-1TB drives. The 2-250GB drives split into 2 different Raid arrays: a Raid 1 array for the OS+Apps and a Raid 0 array for page file and media cache. Raid 1 mirrors the data across 2 drives; so, if one drive dies, the other drive still has the data and you lose no data and no downtime resintalling/restoring the OS & Apps. Raid 0 "stripes" data across the 2 drives; thus, about doubling the read/write speed. However, if one drive dies, all the data is gone. The page file & media cache are not important data. In fact, the media cache should be deleted every 2-3 months. Creating 2 different Raid arrays can only be done on Intel motherboards; this is why I said to use Intel.
2) The 2-1TB drives will be used for storage and run in a Raid 1 array to protect your data. The original footage will be stored here. Also, Raid 1 provides slightly better performance when data is being read. Its a process called "Split Seeks" where the OS is able to read from both drives at the same time. Its rather technical, but it does help.

If you don't mind the risk and want better speed with booting up and opening programs, you can just use Raid 0 for the OS, Apps, page file and media cache. If you do this, you will definitely need to create a separate partition for the OS+Apps as C and a D partition for page file and an E partition for media cache. I can help you with the exact sizes of those partitions once we know the amount of ram and which Raid 0 or 1 for the OS+Apps.

I can also provide you with step-by-step instructions for setting up Raid on an Intel board as I have done so for several others.

You don't want onboard video for editing HD video within Premiere. Preferably, an Nvidia video card, such as the GTS 250. When applying Effects, some can use the video card(which must have OpenGL 2.0 support) to render these effects in real-time. More power equals less time rendering. And when you want to see what different effects look like, quicker rendering times help a lot. I like the GTS 250 because it it a dual slot and heat is blown out of the case and it is only $120-30. And the possible CUDA support in future Adobe releases is 99.9% guaranteed because CS4 already supports it but only with Nvidia's $1500 CX Quadro video card.

Back to hard drives: you do not need or want Raid 0 for video storage. The fastest AVCHD can go is a whopping 3 MB per second, which equates to 24megabit. Even Panasonic's $10,000+ cameras only go up to 12.5 MB/s(100 megabit).

I hope I haven't confused you. I have a tendency to do that, which is why I would not be a great teacher.

Hi, good info, i have the new 17 in raid 0 and 1 1tb drive as back up drive for files. if i bought another drive could i set the 2 1tb in raid 1 config without affecting my raid 0 with my os and programs, im getting cs4 as well so how do i configure in cs4 to allocate the video renders and paging files and the sort, thanks koreydeluca@hotmail.com

Reply to kork777

Hey specialK90... i was referred to you by my collegues over att my filmmaking website (dvxuser.com) and have heard that you are very helpful with this sort of thing. I would like to build a pc capable of editing Avchd footage as i;m looking to upgrade from my dvx100b to the hmc150. However i know nothing of building pc nor where to buy the parts. I was gonna buy ready made but the guys said my $ will stretch futher and i'd get more power if i build.
So here goes....I'd like to build the most effecient system i can for $1000-$ 1100 excluding monitors. I will be running CS4 most likely and i would like to run after effects (when i get the chance to get it). Also do u recommend using windows 7 or vista 64? My friend said he would build it for me if i sourced the parts...so thats an option OR i will be traveling to the US (im in Jamaica) soon so i could get it build while i;m there. Doesnt matter really I just need to know what i need and where to get it. A consolidated list would be REEALLY appreciated and feel free to speak to me as a PC dunce ...cuz i really am. I just use them

thank you for any help you can provide.

now to go to the start of this thread and try to decifer what u guys are saying

Message edited by jambredz on 10-30-2009 at 06:14:53 PM

Reply to jambredz

Hi Specialk90,

I really appreciate all your knowledge/input on this thread! I have a similar question regarding buying/building a new system to edit HD footage on.

I'm going to be taking on a lot of new projects, editing HD footage so it's time to get myself a new system!! So, I'd like to know what the minimum requirements would be to edit HD in Adobe Premiere smoothly. (Maybe Avid Media Composer one day...)

But to be honest, I'd also like to know what the ideal set-up would be, not just the 'minimum requirements'. I want this system to fly. Well, I want it to at least not take me 20 hours longer than it should to edit something!

I'm considering a quad-core/i7 with 4GB ram (expandable to 16 or 24) and I'm just wondering what other specs I should be concerned with before I make my purchase. Adobe recommends a Raid 0 drive for HD editing. Do you think that's necessary? Do I have to have a HD monitor at this point?

I also use Pro Tools 8 which is NOT supported by Windows 7 right now so I'm considering a Dual Boot w/ Windows 7 & XP Pro. Is this a bad idea? Could this adversely affect stability/performance of HD editing in Premiere?

Anyhow, I've been going back and forth between buying a Dell, a Mac or building my own. Obviously price is always a bit of a factor, so I'm definitely shying away from the Mac... If I can keep it around $1300, that would be great.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!!

Thanks,

Brent

Reply to Anonymous

New. Thread.

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Reply to jbakerlent

specialk90 wrote :

Hi there.

RAID: this is another great way of improving performance and another great reason for using Intel. Premiere has a "media cache" where it stores video and audio from projects. While editing in Premiere, you want to see how your video looks and you hit play. Premiere renders the video and stores it in the media cache. Where the media cache is located is very important to the performance and speed of that rendering. Because Premiere must read the original video and then render it, you want to use 2 separate drives, 1 for the source and 1 for the render/media cache. This is where Raid comes into play. I am going to give a brief overview of what I recommend and why it helps performance.
1) Using 4 drives, lets say 2-250GB drives and 2-1TB drives. The 2-250GB drives split into 2 different Raid arrays: a Raid 1 array for the OS+Apps and a Raid 0 array for page file and media cache.

@specialk90

All your advice here seems well researched and based on personal experience as well.

I have a similar setup and found this thread while looking for information on how to set up scratch disks for best performance in premiere pro. The information was never definitive because of all the variations allowed.

My only question/comment about your recommended RAID set up is how you are using the Intel matrix manager to set up both a RAID 1 and RAID 0 on the same pair of Hard Drives. When you do this, you are still using the same physical drives for your scratch files as you are for the OS and apps. Don't you think this could limit the performance of the RAID 0 portion? Unless your thought is that once the OS is loaded and the application is running, there's not a lot of hard drive activity in the mirrored portion of the pair of disks.

Reply to geobrick

READ THE DATE!!! Start your OWN thread!

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Reply to jbakerlent

i use an imac for all of this stuff and its great. the 2.8 i7 is more than powerful enough, and its socketed, so if you want to, you can take the whole thing apart and upgrade the cpu

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Reply to caljomac

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