Lossless audio comression - Page 2

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Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <ZQgje.6088$tt5.2942@edtnps90> Lorin@DAMNSPAM!v5v.ca writes:

> Ohfercrissake Mike, he's saying he wants to compress audio files for
> storage the same way you'd zip a folder full of documents. One does
> this to save disk space, reducing the number of drives one must keep on
> hand.

I don't do that. I store my "valuables" in uncompressed format on
floppy disks or CDs. It's practical for the size documents that I
think I might want to access some time in the future. Back when I
still used 360K floppy disks, I used ARC and ZIP to save disk space,
but that's no longer necessary. Since those would reduce a text or
word processor file to about 10 or 15% of its original size, the
saving was worth while. A reduction of only 50% at today's hard disk
prices is hardly worth the risk added by having another layer between
the data stored and the data in usable format.

> Why is this such an issue for you?

Because a few years back, I wanted to use a file I had downloaded that
was in some compressed format I hadn't heard of before (or since) and
had to hunt for the utility to uncompress it. Ten years later, I
suspect it would be much more difficult to find that utility, and
twenty years later it might be difficult to find a computer on which
to run the utility (and for that matter, that will accommodate the
storage media) to uncompress the file.

I can see someone wanting to put his entire CD collection on a disk
for convenience of playing at a given location, but not as a long term
archive. He has CDs. He can buy replacements if they fail. He can play
those CDs on his computer, on a boom box at the beach, in the living
room, in the car, lend it to a friend . . . If it's on a hard disk, he
has to go to the computer and make a CD in order to do anything but
listen to it on that computer.

It's a pain in the butt, and it's not a very good archive media
anyway. That's why I discourage it for that purpose.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <428D41F1.B2B4FDC3@hotmail.com> rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com writes:

> Hmmmm. Approx 1.8 terabytes of data uncompressed.

Surprisingly affordable at today's disk prices.

> How many months free do you have to do this ?

This isn't.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Henry Padilla" <padillah@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ylkje.5602$tX5.4317@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "Geoff Wood" <geoff@nospam-paf.co.nz> wrote in message
> news:428d0169$1@clear.net.nz...
>>
>> "Henry Padilla" <padillah@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:Gh0je.2719
>>
>>> I want to store the music as clean as I can then I can translate it into
>>> whatever format I feel is good for listening later.
>>> That's what I meant by "I don't need to play the music" I meant "I
>>> don't need to play it NOW".
>>
>> Your old CDs will likely last longer than any hard drive.
>>
>> geoff
>
> I don't see how that's possible since they are already NOT lasting longer.
>
> I've lost three to pitting already and I'm getting nervous.


What are you doing to them ?

I had over 500 CDs for up 20 years , about 200 of which lived in the noxious
atmosphere of Mexico City for 3 years, and in all that time I've only ever
had one die, due to the dreaded CD-fungas.

geoff

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Logan Shaw" <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
>
> On the other hand, precisely because there is much less high-frequency
> information, it might be a much easier task for a lossless encoder to
> achieve much better compression ratios than it would on normal music.

If "might" is good enough for you.

geoff

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Arny Krueger <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote:

> When I bought my first CDs, I believe I was also
> using an IBM PC with an internal Seagate 20 MB (not GB!)
> full-height hard drive and Western Digital ISA hard drive
> controller. Those CDs are still in my library and I've
> listened to some of them recently. The PC, the hard drive
> and the controller didn't even make it into the 1990s

Hard disks were much more fragile and less reliable back then, though.

With CDs it's the opposite: today's CDs are dirt cheap, but also less
well-built and reliable than the CDs made more than, say, 10 years ago.


That said, my Apple 20MB HD from 1985 is still up and running, so who
knows

--
Jazzman DX7II - 01/W - S3000XL - Ion

" Without geometry, life is pointless "

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Ben Bradley wrote:

> On Thu, 19 May 2005 20:30:36 GMT, "John O"
> <johno@!noSPAM!heathkit.com> wrote:
>
> >> > > A digital packrat ?
> >> >
> >> > WOM - write-only memory.
> >>
> >> Decades ago one of the major US semi manufacturers dreamt up a spoof WOM
> >IC data sheet !
> >>
> >That sheet made it into their data books, or so the legend goes.
> >
> >http://www.ganssle.com/misc/wom.html
>
> I've seen that link a few times in recent years, but there must
> have been a similar data sheet if not another page of that one, as I
> distinctly remember a graph not on either of those pages, called the
> "Female Follower Response" that showed a curve that, while perhaps not
> mathematically possible, showed a recognizable outline. I saw this
> circa 1978-1980. Does anyone know of any other such data sheets? That
> one is from Signetics, the one I'm thinking of may have been from
> National Semiconductor.

Talking of spoof data sheets, anyone seen EV's SP13.5TRBXWK ( IIRC ) data sheet
?

I have a copy in my EV folder ( if I can find it ).

Graham

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Richard Crowley wrote:

> "Pooh Bear" wrote ...
> > Talking of spoof data sheets, anyone seen EV's SP13.5TRBXWK ( IIRC )
> > data sheet
>
> http://steamer.mindfart.com/

SCARY ! I remembered the part number correctly !

Thanks for the link. ;-)

Graham

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Randy Yates wrote:

> Pooh Bear <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> writes:
>
>
>>Randy Yates wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Pooh Bear <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Mike Rivers wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>In article <02Hie.3849$tX5.593@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com> padillah@hotmail.com writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I don't need to play the music but I do need to store it on hard drive.
>>>>>
>>>>>What's the point, then? If you're not going to play it, why store it?
>>>>
>>>>A digital packrat ?
>>>
>>>WOM - write-only memory.
>>
>>Decades ago one of the major US semi manufacturers dreamt up a spoof WOM IC data sheet !
>
>
> I think I remember that. I think it was either Fairchild or National Semiconductor
> who also had the "UFART - Universal Fully Asynchronous Receiver/Transmitter".

(It's a Bob Pease article)

http://www.electronicdesign.com/Ar [...] cleID=5186

--
Les Cargill

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
> And he expect that, twenty years down the road when the PC
> architecture is dead and gone, that someone will drop a CD-R with
> these compressed files on his desk or my desk and expect us to read
> them. Just like they are currently dropping 3-track tapes and 16"
> acetates on our desks today.
>
> What will we do then? That's a question that needs to be asked.

one could always include the source code for the decoder, assuming it's
available, of course.

--
Aaron J. Grier | "Not your ordinary poofy goof." | agrier@poofygoof.com

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Aaron J. Grier" <agrier@poofygoof.com> wrote in message
news:11e15b1i9r7n63e@corp.supernews.com

> Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:

>> And he expect that, twenty years down the road when the
PC
>> architecture is dead and gone, that someone will drop a
CD-R
>> with these compressed files on his desk or my desk and
expect
>> us to read them.

We can look back 20 years and use that to guess at how life
will change in the next 20 years.

20 years ago the latest PC technology was based on the PC-AT
and MS/DOS. If there had been MP3 decoders in 1985 they
would be MS-DOS command line application programs with
character-mode UIs. .

Not surprisingly, most MS-DOS command line application
programs with character-mode UIs still run under XP.
admittedly some tweaking may be required or not.

>> Just like they are currently dropping
>> 3-track tapes and 16" acetates on our desks today.

There were never the volume of 3-track tapes and 16"
acetates then, as there are MP3s now.

Volume begets more backwards compatibility.

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Blind Hog <blind_hog@acorn.com> wrote:
> agrier@poofygoof.com (Aaron J. Grier) wrote in
> news:11e15b1i9r7n63e@corp.supernews.com:
> > one could always include the source code for the decoder, assuming
> > it's available, of course.
>
> and the compiler, and the OS.

sure, why not? it would be akin to keeping service / technical manuals
and EQ standards around for tape decks.

and of course the most complete solution is to periodically copy it to
the latest media available, without destroying the old media. you get
redunancy and also hedge your bets against single media obsolescence.

--
Aaron J. Grier | "Not your ordinary poofy goof." | agrier@poofygoof.com